Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?

Peter T. 21 Nov 00 - 11:58 AM
dick greenhaus 21 Nov 00 - 12:27 PM
Dale Rose 21 Nov 00 - 02:56 PM
Peter T. 21 Nov 00 - 03:02 PM
Dale Rose 21 Nov 00 - 03:18 PM
Dale Rose 21 Nov 00 - 03:21 PM
Sandy Paton 21 Nov 00 - 03:50 PM
Sandy Paton 21 Nov 00 - 03:55 PM
Dale Rose 21 Nov 00 - 04:08 PM
Peter T. 21 Nov 00 - 05:28 PM
Sandy Paton 21 Nov 00 - 07:14 PM
GUEST,CraigS 21 Nov 00 - 07:34 PM
GUEST,CraigS 21 Nov 00 - 07:34 PM
Stewie 21 Nov 00 - 08:09 PM
Peter T. 21 Nov 00 - 08:54 PM
Rick Fielding 21 Nov 00 - 10:29 PM
harpgirl 21 Nov 00 - 10:57 PM
harpgirl 21 Nov 00 - 11:03 PM
Stewie 22 Nov 00 - 12:19 AM
Sandy Paton 22 Nov 00 - 01:44 AM
Peter T. 22 Nov 00 - 09:15 AM
Rick Fielding 22 Nov 00 - 07:35 PM
Stewie 22 Nov 00 - 09:10 PM
Peter T. 23 Nov 00 - 01:49 PM
Dani 23 Nov 00 - 08:31 PM
Peter T. 26 Nov 00 - 11:09 AM
greenfields 27 Nov 00 - 02:32 PM
GUEST,drew nelson 27 Nov 00 - 02:49 PM
Abby Sale 27 Nov 00 - 05:22 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:




Subject: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 11:58 AM

Anyone out there an expert on early black gospel recordings? Or just favourites? We don't seem to have had a thread on this -- what would you recommend for a start-up collection? By early I mean pre-World War II.

yours, Peter T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 12:27 PM

A fine introduction is a recording called A Warrior on the Battlefield; black gospel quartets from the 1920s through the 1940s.

Camsco cares too many to list here: E-mail me at dick@camsco.com or call 800/548-FOLK; In theory, at least, every gospel recording by every performer or group prior to WWII is currently available.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Dale Rose
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 02:56 PM

For just one performer rather than an anthology, then I'd say Washington Phillips. For references, ask Sandy. Ask Rick. Ask Andy Cohen. Ask anybody. (well, maybe not just anybody) See Dick.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 03:02 PM

Continuing thanks. Any Washington Phillips album in particular?

yours, Peter T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Dale Rose
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 03:18 PM

Not really much to pick from, just two which contain the whole shebang. One on Yazoo and one on Document. Info and sound clips from the Yazoo at tunes.com

Phillips's sermon-songs are accompanied by dolceola, a keyboard hammered dulcimer that sounds like a celestial ice cream truck. If Johnson sounds like Yahweh's wrath unsheathed, Phillips is a Sunday school picnic on heaven's lawn. His music is a unique and delightful rivulet off the blues-gospel Nile.

-- Mark Humphrey, Roundup Newsletter Never heard his music compared to an ice cream truck before, but I hear what Humphrey means.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Dale Rose
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 03:21 PM

I see I wasn't entirely clear there. What I meant to say was that both of them contain everything, so you wouldn't need both, just one or the other. Since I have never seen or heard the Document, I cannot compare them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 03:50 PM

We prefer the Yazoo Washington Phillips CD, and we are charter members of the Washington Phillips Fan Club! He was GREAT, and in our enthusiasm we even got a Dolceola from an antique shop in Wisconsin. The difference between us and Andy Cohen is that Andy can play his Dolceola. Ask Rick about this one.

Let me further recommend four Yazoo CDs: "How Can I Keep from Singing, Volumes 1 & 2" AND "The Half Ain't Never Been Told, Volumes 1 & 2." These are rural gospel recordings from the 20s and 30s and we love 'em!

Sandy (speaking also for Caroline)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 03:55 PM

Whoops! Forgot to add that we carry the Washington Phillips CD as a regular item in our Web catalog. We also carry the others for the festival season, but CAMSCO has them all the time. An order from either of us will get Mudcat a small percentage. Give Dick a call.

Sandy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Dale Rose
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 04:08 PM

I should have mentioned that, Sandy ~~ available wherever good music is sold, Folk-Legacy, Camsco . . . If he doesn't mind me sneaking in a bit of White Gospel music, (you already have) then add The Music of Kentucky, Vol 1, also on Yazoo, and there you get the wonderful Al Karnes and Ernest Phipps stuff, plus a bunch more.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 05:28 PM

I have the Music of Kentucky, Vol.1, as it turns out...
Does anyone have a potted history handy? Do I assume the first recordings are not anthropological but for record companies, and that at some point choirs and individuals singing gospel songs turn into quartets and the like? And they become stars? And where do the stars show up -- in churches, tents, or on the radio? Do we have early broadcasts of gospel singing, or were these considered unsuitable for awhile.

yours, Peter T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 07:14 PM

Alfred Karnes is not to be missed. Four cuts of Karnes on the Music of Kentucky, Volume 1, from Yazoo. Intense, powerful vocals and guitar. I played Karnes on LP for Rick Fielding a few years ago and he flipped. Spent the entire afternoon trying to figure out what Karnes was doing on that guitar! Unbelievably great performances.

Sandy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: GUEST,CraigS
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 07:34 PM

How early do you regard as early? Many of the old blues artistes recorded religious sides, mainly under pseudonyms eg. Booker T Washington White, who recorded under a name I don't recall (with "Miss Minnie"), eg I am in the Heavenly Way & Promise True and Grand . Lots of those old bluesmen adopted a name to record sanctified music - that's worth looking at. Do you regard the use of harmony as necessary, before you can call it Gospel? If so, I suggest tht you investigate Sister Rosetta Tharp and the Sam Price Trio, who were very popular in the forties (I've got to say that one of my enduring memories is some footage of Sister Tharp playing on a railway station platform in the 60s for a TV show. She was playing a Gibson SG custom, and because she was so BIG it was like she was playing a ukulele).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: GUEST,CraigS
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 07:34 PM

How early do you regard as early? Many of the old blues artistes recorded religious sides, mainly under pseudonyms eg. Booker T Washington White, who recorded under a name I don't recall (with "Miss Minnie"), eg I am in the Heavenly Way & Promise True and Grand . Lots of those old bluesmen adopted a name to record sanctified music - that's worth looking at. Do you regard the use of harmony as necessary, before you can call it Gospel? If so, I suggest tht you investigate Sister Rosetta Tharp and the Sam Price Trio, who were very popular in the forties (I've got to say that one of my enduring memories is some footage of Sister Tharp playing on a railway station platform in the 60s for a TV show. She was playing a Gibson SG custom, and because she was so BIG it was like she was playing a ukulele).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Stewie
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 08:09 PM

I second Dick's recommendation for 'A Warrior on the Battlefield' and the 4 Yazoos mentioned by Sandy - bear in mind that the latter contain white artists as well as black. Here are a few other good'uns:

Various Artists 'The Gospel Sound' Columbia/Legacy C2K 57160. This is a fine 2 CD set compiled and annotated by gospel guru Tony Heilbut. Disc 1 relates mostly to the 20s and 30s, and disc 2 relates to 50s and 60s.

Various Artists 'Preachin' the Gospel: Holy Blues' Columbia/Legacy CK 46779. This is one of the Roots 'N Blues series. It relates mostly to individual artists, ranging from Arizona Dranes and Sister O.M. Terrel to Blind Willie Johnson and Josh White.

Various Artists 'American Primitive Vol 1: Pre-war Gospel (1926-36)' Revenant CD 206. This is a truly magnificent set on John Fahey's Revenant label. The amazing 'Holy Mountain' by Elder Otis Jones and his congregation alone is worth the price of admission. It has great tracks from William and Versey Smith, Blind Roosevelt Graves and Brother, Blind Joe Taggart etc. The sound is a bit ropey at times, but that is only to be expected given the rarity of the originals. Don't miss this one - gems like this never last indefinitely.

Various Artists 'Get Right With God: Hot Gospel' Gospel Heritage HTCD 01. This is not pre-war, but truly wonderful stuff. It collects on a single CD, 2 LPs that were on this English label - Interstate Music Ltd PO Box 74 Crawley, West Sussex RH11 0LX England.

Various Artists 'Somebody Touched Me' Nugrape CD-01.
Various Artists 'Living Humble - A Gospel Compilation' Nugrape CD-07.
These are beaut offerings from a one-man Australian operation. He reissues 78s from his collection on CD - no notes or discography, but excellent sound - Selah Jubilee Quartet, Paramount Singers, National Clouds of Joy, Golden Eagle Gospel Singers, Nugrape Twins etc. Some great rarities here also. You will find an email address, information and great links here: Nugrape Records

Blind Willie Johnson 'The Complete' Columbia Roots 'N Blues Series 472190-2. This double CD set has to be in any collection of black gospel. Forget about the Yazoo reissues of Johnson - they come nowhere near this sound quality.

Shanachie have some fine sets - 'Great Gospel Men', 'Great Gospel Women' etc - but relate mostly to post-war period.

Peter, for an introduction to black gospel, you cannot do better than seek out Tony Heilbut 'The Gospel Sound: Good News and Bad Times' New York, Simon and Schuster and Paul Oliver 'Songsters and Saints: Vocal Traditions on Race Records' Cambridge University Press.

--Stewie.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 08:54 PM

Thanks and hallelujah. By the way, who was Sister Terrell? I have the Roots and Blues album, and she was dynamite. Hmm. Maybe a new thread.
yours, Peter T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 10:29 PM

OK Peter Ya GOT ME STARTED!!

Reverend Gary Davis singing "Oh Lord, Search My Heart"!! Oh this is Bizarre! I've got tears in my eyes just thinking about it. Gotta calm down here. The playing and singing on that are UNEARTHLY! ..but Don't confuse it with his sixties re-recording. The 1930s one is what I'm talking about.

Bosie Sturdivant singing "Ain't No Grave Can Hold My Body Down". It's from a Lomax collection (Sandy can fill you in)

My God, the nights I spent in the Paton's living room after 2am just discovering GOLD and more GOLD!

"Happy Time". Once again, in the Paton's collection. Carribean singers I think (Bahamian)

The Staple Singers' "Swing Down Chariot". Roebuck with the vibrato AND Tremolo AND reverb full up on his Strat through a Twin. Nobody else in the world could make that work! He does.

Reverend Gary Davis singing "I Will Do My Last Singing in This Land". A sixties recording. Saw him do this at Mariposa in 1965. Amazing.

Rev. Karnes singing "Called to The Foreign Field". I'm running out of words.....

Rev. Karns singing "I'm Bound For The Promised Land" (to the tune of "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down"(!!?!) He played a Huge Gibson Harp-Guitar and just CRUSHED those bass strings.

Rev. Davis simply destroyed me at that Mariposa I mentioned, when he closed his set with "Death Don't Have No Mercy In This Land". No live experience in my life has topped that five minutes.

Jeez y'ad think I'd have SOME religion (other than music) after all that!

Peter I have ALL these on tape, and record...if you wanna listen to them.

Rick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: harpgirl
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 10:57 PM

The Jubilee Singers, nine African_Americans from Fiske (University) in 1871, were the first internationally acclaimed black gospel artists. They sang gospel and brought "slave songs" to the world. Dark Midnight When I Rise: The story of the Jubilee Singers, chronicles their history.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: harpgirl
Date: 21 Nov 00 - 11:03 PM

Here's a link:Jubilee Singers


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Stewie
Date: 22 Nov 00 - 12:19 AM

Rick, the Bosie Sturdivant is on Stephen Wade's glorious compilation 'A Treasury of Library of Congress Field Recordings' Rounder CD 1500. A stunning performance.

--Stewie.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 22 Nov 00 - 01:44 AM

You beat me to it, Stewie! Stephen's selections result in one of the finest CDs of traditional performances ever assembled! My candidate for "CD of the Decade." Every person who says they like folk music should own it and learn from it.

Sandy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Peter T.
Date: 22 Nov 00 - 09:15 AM

Well, this is great. I am still not clear on the recording history and/or the relationship between the individual singers like Rev. Gary Davis, and the quartets, and the choirs. When do the choirs start recording, and are they a different bunch with a different repertoire than the quartets?

yours, Peter T.

(P.S. Rick, I have Rev. Gary's early album as well).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Nov 00 - 07:35 PM

Peter, my experience has been that some of the very first recordings period, were Gospel choirs (early 1900s) but I can't come up with any names right now. I'll try.

Rick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Stewie
Date: 22 Nov 00 - 09:10 PM

Peter, these may be of some use. The timeline may be of particular interest to you.

Click Here

And Here

And Here

Cheers, Stewie.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Nov 00 - 01:49 PM

Thanks again, praise the Lord. yours, Peter T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Dani
Date: 23 Nov 00 - 08:31 PM

RE: choirs/quartets, etc., give a listen to Wade in the Water (how DO you do those italics and stuff?) African American Sacred Music Traditions, 4CD set which was a companion to the 1995 radio series produced by NPR and the Smithsonian. Interesting for an overview of styles, info about composers - great liner notes.

Dani


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Peter T.
Date: 26 Nov 00 - 11:09 AM

Just listened to the Stephen Wade compilation CD. Truly, truly wonderful. The unaccompanied girls/women throughout are something else.
yours, Peter T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: greenfields
Date: 27 Nov 00 - 02:32 PM

The 4-CD collection entitled "Wade in the Water", put together by B. Reagon has a great selection of these songs. It's put by Smithsonian Folkways and is available through their catalog.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: GUEST,drew nelson
Date: 27 Nov 00 - 02:49 PM

I'm a newcomer and don't know if you've gotten this one: A Cappella Gospel, 1927-1954. I have it on vinyl; it's got some really rare stuff, including a live performance in a church that must've covered 2 sides of a 45--the shrieking in the audience alone is worth the price of the album. For a change of pace (modern), get a copy of "The Gospel at Colonus," a soundtrack from the play that includes performances by the Steele Family and the Five Blind Boys of Alabama; Clarence Fountain apparently hasn't lost anything in the last 40 years.

Skip James (on Yazoo's Complete Recordings, 29-31(?)) does a couple of standards on guitar and piano that really carry his unique stamp.

And if anyone can find a copy of "The Birmingham Gospel Quartet Anthology," please grab it and let me know: apparently it's tied up in litigation (it was a Swedish import). Someone told me that the litigation stems from the fact that the Mills Brothers perform (most of the recordings are from the 20s), but I've never figured it out. But it's supposed to be out of this world.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Recommend? Early Black Gospel Records?
From: Abby Sale
Date: 27 Nov 00 - 05:22 PM

There's some stuff posted up above there I'll be getting. But I did just get _The Real Bahamas_, (Nonesuch - CD, 1998 (recorded in the field 1966 & 1978) from Camsco. This is a great surprise - things you know and were knocked out by before...and then here's a whole new & staggering take on it. But still gospel - not wired Celtoid or anything. Like "Ain't No Grave Gonna Hold God's Body Down." Whew!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 17 April 10:59 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.