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Help: Non-music history
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Subject: Help: Non-music, history From: Timehiker Date: 14 Jan 01 - 01:07 PM Greetings, all I'd like to take advantage of the wide variety of non-music interests that mudcatters have for a little brainstorming. The museum I work for has asked me to give a 1/2 hour lecture to an adult audience about the Powhatan Indians. The time limit means that my topic will have to have a rather narrow focus. So, my question to you is: If you had the opportunity to hear someone speak about the 17th century Native Americans of Virginia, What would you like to know? Just for background information, The Powhatans are the Native group that Pocahontas belonged to. The lecture will be in the spring, but I have to turn in a list of topics for approval by the end of the week. Sorry for straying from musical topics, but, Mudcatters are such a varied group, I couldn't resist. Take care, and thanks, Timehiker |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: NightWing Date: 14 Jan 01 - 01:30 PM Any pre-European stories, legends, etc. The REAL story of Pocahontas -- before and after she rescued that arsehole Smith.
BB, |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Peter T. Date: 14 Jan 01 - 01:40 PM I would have a very selfish question. I remember in the deep recesses of my mind being very surprised to learn that the Powhatan were very involved in the fur trade -- Canadians are obsessed with the fur trade -- and I would like to know what animals they traded in, and what the routes were -- did they trade locally or were they part of a north-south route connecting up the Hudson or what? There was this huge intercontinental market in animals, full of entrepreneurs on all sides, long before anyone in the middle States of the U.S. moved West. It would also be nice to know if they overhunted them as happened further north. It is a more interesting story than sweet furry animals singing to Pocohantas. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Melani Date: 14 Jan 01 - 01:52 PM I personally really like to hear about daily life in any historical period--how they cooked, what they cooked, what they wore, housing, marriage customs, etc. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: NightWing Date: 14 Jan 01 - 02:03 PM Any pre-European stories, legends, etc. The REAL story of Pocahontas -- before and after she rescued that arsehole Smith.
BB, |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: GUEST,caz2ufolk Date: 14 Jan 01 - 02:32 PM Do you have access to an OHP? because I like to look at aspects of history from a ranges of sources ie artifacts, pictures, documents, music e.t.c.
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: paddymac Date: 14 Jan 01 - 02:41 PM The early records of the Virginia Company have lots of info on native/euro interactions, more than enough to finll several half-hour presentations. They're available from Genealogical Publishing Co (I think in Baltimore) and on CD from Family Tree Maker. Native peoples in the americas had rather extensive trading networks established long before the european onslaught, and dealt in a wide array of what were important commodities to them. I'm not aware of anything suggesting they wiped out any animal species by over-hunting, mostly because the supply far out-stripped the demand, but also because native peoples didn't have the technology to do it. There have in the past been theories that paleoindians wiped-out the wooly mammoth, but more modern scholarship indicates that the demise of the beast was a result of climatic changes. Post-european hunting, by both indians and whites, is a different story altogether. There is a very good paperback called "The Ecological Indian" by Shepard Krech III, 1999,, ISBN 0-393-32100-2, that deals with myth and history in this area. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: katlaughing Date: 14 Jan 01 - 03:06 PM I would like to hear about their societal structure, i.e. matriarchal, a mix or whatever, plus what music was theirs, including instruments, as wall as hear the language. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Richard Bridge Date: 14 Jan 01 - 06:18 PM You may be able to get information from the tourist board in Gravesend, Kent, England, specific to Pocanhontas, it being where she landed in Engalnd and died. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Llanfair Date: 14 Jan 01 - 06:25 PM My mum had a great-aunt in Lincolnshire who insisted she was directly descended from Pocohantas. She was quite barmy, of course!!! Cheers, Bron. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: blt Date: 15 Jan 01 - 03:03 AM I think I would like to hear about Europeans from the Powhatan point of view. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Jan 01 - 04:39 AM I know 'nowt about injuns' but a bit of general advice. Don't do a 30 minute lecture, do 6 x 5 minute presentations. Make each one have a 'hook, line and sinker'. Grab their attention, keep it, let them leave wanting to find out more! Use every aid you can use but make sure you know how to use it properly and finaly, rehearse, rehearse and then rehearse some more! Good luck Dave the Gnome |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Haruo Date: 15 Jan 01 - 04:51 AM I'd be interested in hearing about their political structure; we are accustomed to seeing the word "Powhatan" used both for the tribe (or confederacy of tribes?) and as an appellation for Pocahontas's dad, the Emperor. Was it a title, or a name, or both? Did they have a highly developed polity like the Iroquois confederacy to the north, or was it a little localized despotism? Was their language mutually intelligible with Lenni-Lenape (Delaware)? With Shawnee? (I'm pretty sure they were Algonquian, ¿no?) What is known of their tobacco-related customs? Liland |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: okthen Date: 15 Jan 01 - 05:00 AM I'd be interested in aspects of all the above posts,especially the everyday routine of daily life.I presume that once you have your lecture ready, you will have some notes, any chance you post them here? cheers bill |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Giac Date: 15 Jan 01 - 05:10 AM Tools peculiar to that particular civilization, and games they played. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: R! Date: 15 Jan 01 - 10:27 AM Learning aspects of a culture's every day life is fascinating. I enjoy discovering the differences and the similarities to our own lives. It gives me a feeling of connectedness through the ages. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. Please share with us. Reen (formerly Rowana) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Irish sergeant Date: 15 Jan 01 - 10:56 AM All of the above. I like the idea of six five minute talks and if you have access to artifacts that would be a great way to weave them in. I find the Captain John Smith story (If that was his real name!) a bit ovedrdone unless you know what really happen and it substantially differs, my opinion is stay away like the plague from it. Kindest reguards. neil |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Mrrzy Date: 15 Jan 01 - 01:20 PM I like Peter T's idea of focussing on something like the fur trade routes, or tobacco, or chocolate, or something that could be used to illustrate all other aspects of their life (here's how they used to cook while out on the tobacco road, here's what their social structure was like as it revolved around tobacco, or whatever). And of course we are all interested in what you end up with! Don't think that once you've decided what to do we'll all shut up about it...(BG!) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Timehiker Date: 16 Jan 01 - 12:28 AM Wow!! Thanks so much folks. I didn't expect so much interest in this thread. The 6X5 suggestion is interesting. I'll have to fiddle around with that one and see what I can come up with. To quickly answer some of the questions that have come up here: Yes, we will have some visuals to show. Pictures, some original artifacts, and some reproductions that we've made ourselves. As far as posting my notes here, I'm afraid my speaking notes are typically just an outline to keep me on track. I will let you know what topics I submit, and which one gets chosen by the boss. The actual program is still a few months away. They haven't pegged it down any finer than "this Spring" yet. If folks are interested, I could post some short answers to some of the questions raised on this thread. I will certainly let everyone know how the program goes in a few months. Again, thanks so much for all the support. Take care Timehiker |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Timehiker Date: 16 Jan 01 - 12:38 AM I meant to put in a link to our web site, then realised that I don't know how. Anyway, the address is; www.henricus.org/frame.html Thanks again Timehiker |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: GUEST,fretless Date: 16 Jan 01 - 12:02 PM Sounds like a great topic, and good ideas already sent/received. For archaeology lectures, if the audience isn't too large, I've found that people love to have the chance to handle artifacts. So pass the sherds around the group and trust that you'll get them back at the end of the talk (I always have). And don't hesitate to mention something about method and your sources. Most folks who care enough to come out for a lecture want to know how we know what we know about pre/early history, not just be told what (we think) went on way back then. Send a pm to my member address ("fretless") if you wish. I have some contacts who are Powhatan descendants, also some contacts with funding sources that may be of interest. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: mousethief Date: 16 Jan 01 - 12:07 PM I'd want to know how they were treated by the white settlers (and vice versa). But that's just me. By the way, I like your handle, Timehiker. Alex |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Timehiker Date: 16 Jan 01 - 05:30 PM Son of a gun! So that's how you put a link in a post! LOL! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Jan 01 - 06:35 PM One thing I'd want to know if I was in the audience would be, are they still around, and if so, how is life treating them? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Non-music history From: Timehiker Date: 18 Jan 01 - 12:00 AM Thanks again for all the input folks. Here's the list that I'm going to submit to the boss. 1. The Riverine Culture of the Powhatans (This one is so broad, it really lends itself to the 6X5 format.) 2. A Day in the Life of a Powhatan Village (Another one that incorporates a lot of the ideas you've suggested.) 3. Powhatan / English Relations at Henricus (We went from open warfare, to "The Peace of Pocahontas" back to warfare.) 4. Powhatan, Opposonoquanuskie, Pocahontas, and Opecancanough (Four Native people who had an impact on the Citie of Henricus. Another one that may work well in several short segments.) I'm turning these in tomorrow, I'll let you know how it turns out. Meanwhile, I'll touch on some of the questions raised in this thread. Richard, We had a couple of tourists from England visit our site. They wanted to visit Pocahontas' grave. You should have seen their faces when we told them they had to go back home! McGrath, yes, they are still around. Two groups, the Mattoponi and the Pamunkey, have managed to keep some reservation lands. The Mattoponi are under seige by some people who want to build a dam and flood a large chunk of their land so that one of our large coastal cities can have a water reservoir. I can't presume to speak for them, but, All the Virginia tribes have had a book published to address your question. The title is "We're Still Here". I'll post a link to the publisher in a later post. I'm always amazed by the local people who visit our site who honestly didn't know that there were (and are) Indians living in Virginia. As far as language goes, the Virginia dialect of Algonquin died out in the early 1800's. The closest existing dialect is Lenape. Some words were recorded by early English settlers, moccasin, and tomahouk are a couple. More later, if you're still interested. Take care Timehiker |
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