Third world elections

Subject: Third world elections
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 09:45 PM

Hi Mucatters,

This in from Chicago.

A history professor from uppsala universitet in sweden, talking about an article she had read in which a Zimbabwe politician was quoted as saying that children should study this event closely for it shows that election fraud is not only a third world phenomena.

1. Imagine that we read of an election occuring anywhere in the third world in which the self-declared winner was the son of the formerprime minister and that former prime minister was himself the former head of that nation's secret police (cia).

2. Imagine that the self-declared winner lost the popular vote but won based on some old colonial holdover (electoral college) from the nation's pre-democracy past. 3. Imagine that the self-declared winner's 'victory' turned on disputed votes cast in a province governed by his brother!

4. Imagine that the poorly drafted ballots of one district, a district heavily favoring the self-declared winner's opponent, led thousands of voters to vote for the wrong candidate.

5. Imagine that that members of that nation's most despised caste, fearing for their lives/livelihoods, turned out in record numbers to vote in near-universal opposition to the self-declared winner's candidacy.

6. Imagine that hundreds of members of that most-despised caste were intercepted on their way to the polls by state police operating under the authority of the self-declared winner's brother.

7. Imagine that six million people voted in the disputed province and that the self-declared winner's 'lead' was only 327 votes. Fewer, certainly, than the vote counting machines' margin of error.

8. Imagine that the self-declared winner and his political party opposed a more careful by-hand inspection and re-counting of the ballots in the disputed province or in its most hotly disputed district.

9. Imagine that the self-declared winner, himself a governor of a major province, had the worst human rights record of any province in his nation and actually led the nation in executions.

10. Imagine that a major campaign promise of the self-declared winner was to appoint like-minded human rights violators to lifetime positions on the high court of that nation.

None of us would deem such an election to be representative of anything other than the self-declared winner's will-to-power. All of us, I imagine, would wearily turn the page thinking that it was another sad tale of pitiful pre- or anti-democracy peoples in some strange country, elsewhere!

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 10:13 PM

Nahhhh, that could never happen in North America! Errr, at least 50 percent of the citizens wouldn't believe it. Trouble is, the OTHER fifty percent DO believe it!

nosy furriner

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 10:17 PM

Sorry, I thought this was another thread about the upcoming Canadian elections.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: Wavestar
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 10:27 PM

He does have a point, though.

-J

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: Troll
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 10:41 PM

The point seems to be that, while all the statements are accurate insofar as they state at least a portion of the truth, by careful wording it is possible to make a situation appear MUCH worse than it is.
Similar statements could be made about Gore, or, for that matter, Mother Terese'.
Isn't language wonderful?

troll

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: Wavestar
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 10:52 PM

One of my very favourite things in the world, Troll. That's why I study it. Ah, the manipulation of words. But isn't that what all medias do?

-j

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: Troll
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 11:06 PM

Yes it is Jes, but when the media seem to favor one candidate or another they cease to be informative and become PR hacks. Or their sole responsibility is to the ratings numbers and accuracy and objectivity become relegated to second place.
Speaking of the current fiasco, I feel that it was the height of journalistic irresponsibility to project winners before the polls even closed on the West Coast. It discouraged people from voting.
I have a degree in Journalism and I am daily apalled at the op-ed stuff that passes for reporting in the national media.
Sorry. As you can tell this one pushes my buttons big-time.

troll

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: GUEST,Bill Winters
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 11:08 PM

Similar things HAVE been said about Gore! And that Mother Theresa! She was sure no Saint! Man, does Jimmie Carter look good these days. His life SINCE the Presidency has shown he has class. Gawd that Bush seems shallow, and Gore's not far behind.

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: Troll
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 11:12 PM

Carter was a rather poor President but he makes a damn good ex-President!
I've said it before and I'll say it again; I miss Ike. Hell, I even miss Harry. And if things get much worse, I may even miss FDR!

troll

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: GUEST,Bill Winters
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 11:19 PM

Well I don't remember much about Ike or Harry or FDR other than what I've read, but Jimmie doesn't seem like a man who can be bought and sold, so maybe that's why he was a bad President. His successor sure didn't have that problem. I'd much rather have Clinton back for another four, and just forget this sorry mess.

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: Troll
Date: 18 Nov 00 - 11:29 PM

Carter's problem was that he was a micro-manager who got too tied up in details.
He was-and is- an honorable man and expected the same from other world leaders. It totally floored him when he found that the Russians -for example- had lied to him.
What we need are statesmen. What we have are cheap politicians.

troll

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Nov 00 - 09:22 PM

I promised to ignore posts by anonymous GUESTs - but this is a thread about politicians, so a broken promise or so fits in here.

The point is, this stick points both ways.

GUEST assembled a number of facts about an unnamed country, and juxtaposed them in a way that suggested a criminal conspiracy to pervert an election process.

It just so happens that this collection of facts exactly coincides with the facts concerning the recent election in thye US. So troll points out, quite rightly that all this circumstantial evidence (whichyu is not challenged) doesn't add up to proof, and that there may be other less damaging explanations. In fact to be fair, he is pretty sure that there are less damaging explanations. I hop ehe is right.

But isn't it true that just this kind of assembly of suspicious facts is what the public are often presented with about other countries of which they know little, and that these are then accepted as justifying all sorts of actions and reprisals?

"What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" -with the corollery that if it's not fit for the gander, change the recipe before you try it on the goose next time.

Subject: RE: Third world elections
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Nov 00 - 02:06 AM

An earlier post to another thread. Not much more to add.