BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemies

Subject: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 11:44 AM

There is an old saying which goes thus, 'My enemy's enemy is my friend'
Now it crossed my mind after some feedback on a related matter, that this is crap.
Why do you say that; I don't hear you ask!
Well it's simple really, if you don't share the same friends. e.g, you don't like some of your friend's friends. [you with me so far?] Then why should you dislike their enemies, solely on the basis of their dislike of, or animosity towards, someone you may never even have met?
I have met several people who, if others were to be believed were the personification of evil. Only to find them normal, sociable, and even, house trained.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 12:34 PM

It seems to me that the old saying simply describes a form of political expediency that is fairly common. WWII and the Russians as 'allies', for example.


Properly stated, it would have a paragraph of exceptions and disclaimers.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 12:53 PM

Not to be confused\with enemas

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: mauvepink
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 12:54 PM

Then there is the other one, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"

Recent history has shown that it's more "My Enemies enemies are my friends, until they have done what we supplied them to do, upon which we will leave them high and dry and they will then become our enemies too"

What a pity we just cannot all be friends and consign the word enemy to the bin and history.

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: mauvepink
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 12:56 PM

Who goes there? Friend or enema?

Would you really shout that out from behind the curtains around your hospital bed?

lol

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 01:52 PM

That old tribal rubrick is valuable as a description of how people react without thinking. Recognizing that it is a pretty stupid saying will not alter the frequency of the practice.

My pet peeve is a meaningless poem that ends with one of the stupidest couplets ever:

"Beauty is truth, truth beauty
That is all you need to know on earth and all you need to know"

how much is owed to that urn?

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 02:22 PM

A more accurate phrase would be "The enemy of my enemy is a tool I can use. I don't give a shit whether he's my friend or not."

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: mkebenn
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 02:49 PM

Who has friends? Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: frogprince
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 03:25 PM

At a more personal level, it can be a little disheartening to have two people you enjoy as friends, but know that they can't tolerate each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 03:52 PM

A richer investigation might be one into how we elect various states of affinity, how we can change them, and how they are related.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Newport Boy
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 04:26 PM

We always say that we support two international rugby teams - Wales, and any other team that plays England.

(Ducks)

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Maryrrf
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 09:04 AM

That was one of Henry Kissinger's favorite aphorisms. I don't know if he was the originator of the phrase though.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Newport Boy
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 10:27 AM

I didn't know Kissinger supported Wales - maybe he's not all bad.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 10:39 AM

I think we should stop hunting wales.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 10:46 AM

"Can we all get along?"

R.King

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 12:09 PM

You should get your quotes right, robomatic.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 12:19 PM

The saying you allude to, John, has little to do with relations between individuals, but it is extremely accurate regarding relations between larger political entities such as nations or political parties. They are always happy to jump temporarily into bed with anyone who is opposed to a present enemy of theirs on the battlefield...in the field of competitive commerce and trade wars...and in political campaigns.

This is because their "friendships" are not based on real affection or loyalty, but upon sheer expedience.

There are so many examples of this throughout history that to list them all would take the rest of my life, so I'm not going to even attempt it. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: gnu
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 02:49 PM

Indeed, John. Especially on the internut. In real life you can at least call someone out and hold them accountable. In cyberspace, such idiots that spew venomous gossip are far harder to deal with.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 03:24 PM

Nice try McGrath. It was a typo.

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

This was the gist of the notice. It said "The Guide is definitive. Reality is frequently inaccurate."
This has lead to some interesting consequences. For instance, when the editors of the "Guide" were sued by the families of those who had died as a result of taking the entry on the planet Traal literally (it said "Ravenous Bugblatter Beasts often make a very good meal for visiting tourists" instead of "Ravenous Bugblatter Beasts often make a very good meal OF visiting tourists"), they claimed that the first version of the sentence was the more aesthetically pleasing, summoned a qualified poet to testify under oath that beauty was truth, truth beauty and hoped thereby to prove that the guilty party in this case was Life itself for failing to be either beautiful or true. The judges concurred, and in a moving speech held that Life itself was in contempt of court, and duly confiscated it from all those there present before going off to enjoy a pleasant evening's ultragolf.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 06:01 PM

Anyone who can't grasp that beauty is truth, and truth beauty, is probably fairly immune to both truth and beauty a good deal of the time.

I think the original quote you alluded to (but misquoted) is a splendid one, robomatic, and extremely apt. Most people are simply too cynical, too jaded, and too disappointed in life to relate to it. As such, they proudly imagine themselves to be "realists"! ;-D Cold comfort.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 07:36 PM

Pragmatists actually

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 08:02 PM

Yes, I think that's the right word for it, John. A pragmatist is someone who cares a great deal about (his own perceived) immediate needs, but not a whit for ideals or principles, and that's what you generally find occurring in the field of politics. Not that there isn't something to admire about pragmatism...it's bold, forthright, and efficient...but sometimes it leads to astonishingly evil consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 10:59 PM

Uh, which has nothing to do with the Keats quote, which is an encapsulation of the notion: Makes no sense, must be deep.


Yeah, it's deep, alright.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 11:31 PM

It makes no sense if you have no poetry in your soul, but prefer to think only in very literal terms. And that's why poetry is one of the hardest ways to make a living, yet is so satisfying to the soul. Most people have no time whatsoever for poetry. Most people are literalists, and they think that once they know the name of something, then they know what it IS and that it only can ever be that and nothing more! They're wrong. They have no grasp whatever beyond the names and official definitions they have learned for things.

Leonard Cohen realized that, so he started singing his poetry instead (despite feeling that he was a lousy singer) and it made him a fortune. Beauty is truth. Truth is beauty. If that makes no sense to you, then that's your conscious choice. It makes sense to me. Is it deep? Well, I guess it's deeper than going down a mere sixteenth of an inch...I'll say that. Heh!

If you can't get what Keats was saying, it's because you aren't trying to, and because you don't want to.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 09:29 AM

Keep friends close and enemies closer, I wouldn't trust the enemy of the enemy because if they decide to make amends and bury the hatchet then you've had it.

Subject: RE: BS: Friend's friends/ Enemy's enemys
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 08:24 PM

The enemy of my enemy is my friend is an old Arab saying. Works well in wartime, look at the mess o'potamia now.