bashing Robert Johnson

Subject: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,Furry
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 01:36 AM

I know I,m gonna catch flack for this(don't get me wrong I like RJ he's damned good) but he is not the father or the king of the Delta blues. There is a wealth of wonderful music back there and it aint all by one guy.if there is a king/father of the blues it's Charlie Patton. as a lover of the old blues I am tired of hearing RJ this RJ that, it seems he is the begining and end of the tradition for almost everybody what about Frank Stokes, blind lemon, Son house,BLIND WILLIE JOHNSON.....If anyone of these guys had used the old pagganini soul selling story to their advantage instead of RJ ( who started that myth himself "he used to tell that to all the ladies")they'd be the only one folks talk about the only one they listen to.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 01:56 AM

Music is not a competition. Musicians may compete personally but the end result, for us the listener, is just more good music.

There is a great diference between music and the 'hype'. The trick is just to enjoy the music...........

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: MichaelAnthony
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 02:02 AM

I've often wondered why so many have gone hog-wild about Robert Johnson. Not bad at all, but personally it doesn't sound to me like he sold his soul. Or maybe he did. Am I missing something?

MA

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 02:15 AM

You will find some fine articles and photos of many old blues great if you click on the E-Muzine on the top menu bar.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,furry
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 02:16 AM

I aint sayin its a competition and I know it's hype,but , how many folks you know "know" the blues and go straight from RJ to led zepplin. RJ's hype shallows the pool.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,furry
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 02:19 AM

Thanks Kat

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 09:49 AM

I for one am Robert Johnson fan and I feel that he is the father of the Modern Blues. Virtually every one of his songs has been covered successfully by modern musicians and it is through these covers that most of us discovered the likes of Charlie Patton, Son House, Bukka White, Blind Willie etc.

I think he consistently wrote the best lyrics of his era and was a wonderful player and singer. I'm not saying that he is necessarily better than the others, but certainly more influential and deserves the respect that he is given.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 10:56 AM

Robert Johnson is a blues ICON, as in symbol. Who is the "best" is purely relative, but as a universal symbol of the acoustic blues form Robert Johnson is da man. Just as Muddy Waters is for electric blues. Not the most prolific, not the "best", just the guy that means " the blues" to just about everybody.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Mbo
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 11:04 AM

No so sure about "everybody", Bart! Before I came to Mudcat, I never heard of Robert Johnson. I HAD heard of Big Bill Broonzy & Muddy Waters, though.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 11:31 AM

He only means 'the blues' to just about everybody, though, because that's the only acoustic blues musician they've probably ever heard of. That's because he's got more posters than, say, Charlie Patton, and more rock stars using his name to try and sound cool by saying things like 'Yeah, man, Robert Johnson is, like, THE BLUES, dude! He's, like, where it all started!'

If folks who get into the blues through Robert Johnson are inspired by him to dig deeper into the music, that's great. But I suspect that all too many of them just toss his cds into their pile of Johnny Lang and Susan Tedeschi discs.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 11:47 AM

Hi Furry. You won't get flack from folks who know the hierarchy of recorded blues in the USA. Of course Charlie Patton could be called "father of the blues". Don't forget that the musically literate W.C. Handy thought of HIMSELF as "inventor of the blues", just as Jelly Roll Morton insisted that he "invented" jazz!

The great hype over Robert Johnson (a wonderfully rhythmic but highly derivative player) came primarily because his re-issued sides were on a MAJOR label (Columbia), whereas Blind Willie Johnson's music stayed on a minor label (distribution wise) and was not as readily available to the kids who came straight from Rock and roll to "roots" music.

Any half way experienced blues listener upon discovering Robert Johnson would pretty quickly see how much he owed to LOnnie Johnson, Son House, Patton, and several others. Remember, by the time Robert recorded, the blues recording boom was over ten years old. Robert had LOTS of influences. The only folks you'll hear touting "RJ this, and RJ that", are the ones who haven't heard too many of the others. They will, if they put an effort into it, or maybe not.

Like Steve L, I'm a huge fan of Johnson, but I'm just as big a fan of many other great blues artists. One of the most enjoyable things in being a "trad nurd" is the constant discoveries you make. Wait til you hear the Scrapper Blackwell solo sides. Wow!

Rick

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 12:22 PM

There is an anthology called "The Roots of Robert Johnson" that is worth hearing and owning. He apparently learned most of what he knew not from the devil (as he liked to say) but from the record player, and he apparently had a good collection.

He wasn't very well known in his lifetime, and his big hit, which, I believe, was Terraplane Blues, wasn't circulated much outside the Delta. A lot of his status came from "blues experts" who didn't necessarily know what they were talking about.

I have a Robert Johnson songbook around here somewhere in which the editor makes the grand claim that "Love in Vain" has a musical structure unique in all the blues--Well, it is basically nothing more than new words to "In the Evening When the Sun Goes Down" which had been a monster hit for Leroy Carr and Scrapper Blackwell earlier in the decade, and was even available as sheet music by the time RJ recorded it.(His words are great, though!!)

Record companies and book publishers churn out all sorts of hype in order to market their products, and I think we become inclined to think that someone can't be good unless they are "The Greatest, the First. The most Incredible Finger Style Acoustic Blues Guitarist of the Millenium that ever lived in the history of the Universe". The truth is that whenever you hear these sort of comparisons, it is because someone has something they are trying to sell.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Art Thieme
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 12:25 PM

Blackwell's solo stuff later in life is pretty amazing. The LP on Prestige when he lived in Indianapolis shows he was a fine singer that, I feel, influenced Paul Geremia's vocal style a bunch.

I got to hear Son House in the 60s when he was "rediscovered" (a terrible term I always thought) when Eddie House was a shell of his former self. Still, he was extremely intense. A video I have of him from that era -- "Death Letter Blues" -- has to be one of the classics of all time that was ever captured of a semninal Delta blues artist on film. "Bukka" White showed up at the Old Town School Of Folk Music in Chicago back then and simply blew us all away. His set for the after-lessons concert session was stupendous. It was strange to realize then that things like "Believe I'm Fixin To Die" were what he called his "SKY SONGS"---just done off the top of his head when he'd recorded 'em 30 years earlier. He was amazed that people remembered those tunes---'cause he certainly didn't. They were done once, he got paid, and that was it.

Robert Johnson was one I'd've loved to have seen. Those foot long fingers (almost) gave him a huge fret spread/reach -- not to mention very interesting erotic possibilities.

Muddy was good, but he's the one I think was overrated as a blues artist. In truth, I loved the things he did for the Library Of Congress's collectors down in Mississippi, with just his acoustic guitar, better than all the electric blues that made him famous. Jimmy Cotton on harp and Otis Spann's piano made Muddy's Chicago band the great band it was. Still, Muddy put it all together with his drive and force of personality. PLEASE read BOSS MEN by Jim Rooney---a fine book about and comparing Muddy and Bill Monroe, two men who drove their bands to heights they would not have risen to without pushing.

Another great LP is the Folkways/Smithsonian Search For Blind Willie Johnson (narrated and put together by Sam Charters). If it, like the recordings of Blind Willy are now on CD, it's a must have blues recording.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,Furry
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 12:35 PM

I only Titled the link Bashing RJ to draw attention .Again I like RJ too. maybe my point was a little over stated but I would love to go into a bar where a blues band pulls out acoustic guitars and does anything old authentic and traditional THAT AINT ROBERT. How about some reverand Gary Davis or James ALLey BLues by Rabbit Brown.27 songs do not constitute a tradition. THat's really my point.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 01:08 PM

Robert's guitar and vocal on 32/20 Blues should be studied by any one seeking an understanding of the genre.The changes in rhythm to accompany the lyrics were innovative,the variation in the vocal were perfect for the emotional fluctuations in the song,the entire desparate impact of the performance came as close to the essence of Blues as anyone has come or is likely to come.Sure,much of RJ's technique was derivative,but the nature of the Blues is that each successive generation of players both assimilates and regenerates the form. Was he a greater bluesman than Son House? I doubt it.But the incredible intensity of Johnson's music,and it's rhythmic drive, made it attractive to a lot of rock/blues musicians,and therefore Johnson gained a higher profile than House.That popularity should not,however, stand against him.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: dwditty
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 01:09 PM

I don't know of anyone who loves the blues that does not like Robert Johnson. The best? Purely subjective. Where it all started? Wrong. The thing about RJ, though, is that, for whatever reason, lots of rock bands did his stuff. The positive is that when people went back to listen to "the original," they often were exposed to a whole host of others..Blind Willie Johnson, Charlie Patton, Blind Blake, Henry Thomas, Scrapper Blackwell, Bukka White, Son House, Rev. Robert Wilkins, Gary Davis,...oh the list goes on. Delta, Chicago, Kansas City, Piedmont, Memphis,...there is so much good stuff. If Robert was the link to get lots more people to hear this stuff, well I think that is good. The ones who put him on the pedestal just haven't gotten it yet. I even have a T-Shirt showing the Rock and Roll family tree. Robert Johnson is shown as the tap root, for cryin' out loud!! Oh well, I guess it was designed to sell T-Shirts.

dw

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,furry
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 01:39 PM

OK another example BB KING.When BB started he was doing somethin diffrent it was cool. It wasn't the electrified Delta of Muddy Waters before him ( by The way I guess it's my fault for opening this can of worms but, did I read right? someone had less than kind words about MUDDY!!!)back to BB he was playing this hip uptown swing thang more soul than blues really except for BB's Lightnin Sam style leads, but living traditions change and that's cool this was the new Urban Blues.
Some 40 years have past and everyone still sounds or tries to sound like BB. there is more varity in a box of corn flakes.Show of hands how many people have seen more than twenty diffrent bands cover ALL these songs in one single nights performance A.Kings "born under a bad sign" , bb's The thrill is gone,"hootchie kootchie man" jimi's "RED HOUSE" throw in some Clapton and Vaughn and you have THe one and almost only blues show of the last 15 or 20 years.
my point being the tradition is DYING and partially becouse there is the trend toward small singular Icons. Blues is a folk music.The cultural Trend toward Celebrity since we all put TV's in our living rooms is killing it. Robert Johnson by himself with less than 30 song to his credit is the celebrity of the old blues. the rest of the tradition has already been washed away.Known to a hand full of audo philes and musicians Rarely ever performed. KEEP THE LAMP TRIMMED AND BURNING- Furry

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: dwditty
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 02:03 PM

Furry,
You, my friend, have hit the essence of what this site is all about - a bringing together of folks generally interested in preserving the music. The Digital Tradition (thank you Dick Greenhaus and Susan of DT) is all about harvesting songs to add to the database. I was at a hoot the other night and Susan was singing songs that are over 400 years old! So, yes, this thread is an important one, and thanks for starting it. It is through places like Mudcat, DT, and our own little circles in our physical worlds that we can keep the music alive.

dw
You are right. Bars and boardrooms are about selling the music - tradition be damned.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,Furry
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 02:22 PM

WE SHOULD HAVE A NATIONAL BUSKING DAY EVERYONE IN THE MC CAFE TAKE TO THE STREETS WITH GUITARS ,HARPS, BANJOS, MANDOLINS, AND FIDDLES PLAYING TRADITIONAL AND/or ORIGINAL songs (provided they don't sound anything like Ozzy or Kiss)on the same afternoon. I'll even play something by RJ!

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: dwditty
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 02:27 PM

What an idea!!!!!!! Let's do it.

dw

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,truckerdave
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 10:12 PM

I am FROM mississippi. No one here ever heard of Robert Johnson until a few years ago, black or white. He was largely forgotten until that double CD release whenever(in 91?). Blind Willie Mctell and Blind Boy Fuller were far better in my opionion. By the way, all the transcriptions i've seen of 32.20 blues got a word wrong in them. It's supposed to be "CAPS", not "CAMPS". Someday maybe they will finally figure out "CAPS" is the southern slang word for pistol ammunition dating back to cap and ball revolvers. Thats what Kokomo Joe Arnold said in the original version that Johnson stole. If someone did that today they'd be sued for copywright infringement. Now is there anyone else that i can make hopping mad over Johnson? And yes i can play Johnsons songs, too.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,truckerdave
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 10:19 PM

Oh, i forgot. I saw in a local paper a couple of days ago where some old lady remembered watching Johnson being buried when she brought some water to her husband. She showed Johnson's son and some other people the spot where his unmarked grave was. The old lady didn't know until recently he was anyone important. It was in a different location and cemetery where he was believed to have been buried all these years.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Oversoul
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 10:42 PM

The post by GUEST,truckerdave pretty much sums up why I don't play acoustic blues stuff anymore. This has become the folly of "Johnny come latelys" who think they have a regional stranglehold on the blues. Quibble all you care to about who was the King, I couldn't care less. And silly arguements about some lyrics in a "transcription"? What a laugh.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Oversoul
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 11:40 PM

For Instance: Robert Johnson's recordings were already famous throughout the midwest and east even in the early '70's. Columbia records had two albums in print even before a photograph of Johnson was available.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,truckerdave
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 11:41 PM

Transcription argument? It wasn't an argument. I'm right and everyone else is wrong. That's no argument. I just hate to see people keep singing a verse that doesn't make sense. I do play acoustic blues but i play it my way, not Johnson's. He He. Can i make someone else mad by saying that Johnson coudn't keep time in his recordings? Oh, i guess we can write it off as "unique delta rythm". He He.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,truckerdave
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 11:44 PM

maybe in the midwest and east but not in the south due to it's racist heritage and i say this even though i am from mississippi.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Art Thieme
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 11:47 PM

Davecoje,

Right on ! King - schming. It don't matter a bit. we're all just links on a l-o-n-g, l-o-n-g chain. Robert's link is probably as big as 20 of other folks' links. Only matters if you think size is important. ;-)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Oversoul
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 12:15 AM

It is not Johnson's lyrics or sense of rhythm which make him popular. He was recorded well, (for the period) and was a great technician. To be honest, I can't understand most of his lyrical content. I like other "race" artists just as much. I don't give a shit about how he is remembered in Mississippi or if his burial place is marked.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From:
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 12:25 AM

I think that most "end of an era" musicians are derivative. It seems inevitable as all that material is there, whereas it wasn't there for the "pioneers". J.S. Bach is highly derivative and he made no bones about it. In my opinion RJ added to the pieces he played. He didn't just copy them. The difference between "Love in Vain" and "When the Sun Goes Down" is a telling example.

Having said that, I find that when I am thinking, "what shall I play," I very rarely Choose Johnson. I think one reason is he is too "busy". His pieces are full of geegaws which are not related to each other.

I agree it is futile to try to pin-point the "father of the blues"; but do keep in mind that Blind Lemon Jefferson had made records already when Charlie Patton and Son House were developing his style. House tells Alan Lomax that he learned the blues from somebody who learned from Jefferson records.

Murray

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,furry
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 12:43 AM

I started this and I had no intention of having a steal cage match to name the king of the blues my point was that the tradition is disapearing under the weight of one guys over blown noteriety. celebrity is shallowing everything in the telivised age even stuff that was here before.
that,s all

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: MichaelAnthony
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 01:49 AM

Good idea on the busking day, furry.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST,bodillyjiggy
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 12:56 AM

Since most of RJs songs werent completely original, how is he the FATHER of modern blues...just wonderin. How about C. Patton or Son House who clearly influenced him? The biggest reason why people consider him the father of blues is because of his influence on modern blues and rock and roll artists, totally ignoring the delta blues masters that influenced RJ himself.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GeorgeH
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 08:37 AM

I do like this slagging off of dead artists . . RJ didn't ask for his current status, or to be considered the father of anything . . Much of this "discussion" is even worse than the RJ "hype", in that it's soo negative.

The whole idea of a "father" of ANY sort of music is a total nonsense; it's marketing gone mad, and we do ourselves no credit by even talking in such terms.

To me, RJ is an essential blues musician.

Some of the modern blues performers I particularly respect would put it stronger than that; they may well be right.

And over here I have to say any over-exposure of RJ has somehow managed to pass me by!

G.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Mark Clark
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 09:32 AM

I can't remember when Columbia first released a twelve inch vinyl album of Johnson's work but I know we were listening to it in 1963. He just blew us away at the time but then we were blown away by every new album we bought back then. We had all been listening to great blues artists for quite a while by then so Robert wasn't an introduction or anything. We had the impression that he was some obscure musician who's work had been dug up by a dedicated researcher or something. Of course that probably enhanced our appreciation of his music.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: RWilhelm
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 09:34 AM

Actually, I think Robert Johnson is usually referred to as the "King" of Delta Blues. Like Elvis was the "King" of rock'n'roll but hardly the "father."

I don't want bash Robert Johnson I think he was incredible. I want to bash the people who buy his boxed set and think they have the whole genre covered. Robert Johnson was great but he was just one of many many great African American performers recording in the 20's and the 30's. Some people get the credit they deserve, most do not.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 11:30 AM

I think the unfortunate part of the celebrity cult in this case (celebrity is not always a bad thing) is the influence of the "noble savage" image -- that these people were somehow pure and untutored and never played records or pop songs at dances, never learned from other people, and suddenly appeared fully blown one morning. It is a subtle kind of racism: that these people were sitting in bogs strummin', getting the music out of the air. That is what I object to.

The truth is so much more interesting: if you listen to Muddy Waters at Newport talking about Son House ("the old man") you suddenly can envisage the long tradition -- listening, playing, elders, juniors. Read Lomax trying to find Son House and making the serious mistake of calling him "Mr. House" to a sheriff, and you feel the whip. Read the lives of Leadbelly or Bukka White and you see what kind of vicious world they grew up in, and still made something extraordinary while around them burn the fires of a manmade hell. In many ways it is still an unbelievable feat. These are immensely gifted people hammering out something wonderful in a pitiless place and time. Thank God they were recorded. The Romantic mythology about selling your soul at a crossroads is initially bewitching, but in the end it is boring compared to the hard, complex, truths.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 11:47 AM

Very good points Peter. I once read that one of the reasons that National Steel Guitars quickly gained favour with these players was that they felt that they would be better at stopping a bullet at a Juke that got out of hand. Violence was just a way of life. I was struck the first time I saw a picture of Little Walter, one of the most influential and innovative bluesmen ever. It is covered with scars that were obviously not stitched up in a hospital. He died in a street fight. And how many of these greats spent time at Parchment Farm or other Prisons? It must have been a horrible life, it's amazing that any of them rose above it at all.

I am grateful to have heard of all of these wonderful musicians. I often wonder how many others we missed out on because they were never recorded or their recordings are lost forever or they made the mistake of having a wooden guitar at a gig.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 12:13 PM

A wooden guitar as compared to what?

Folk/trad afficionadoes tend to HATE it when someone gets the limelight. Unless you're suffering in obscurity, you're not the real thing. Look up threads where people bash Paxton, PPM, the Weavers, etc. All this RJ-bashing comes just because the 1991 CD release has garnered so much publicity (and sales), and because he is cited by so many R&R and modern blues giants. People who know better know he's not the "father" of anything, or the first of anything (more like the last). He was a channel through which the delta flowed into 1960's and 1970's rock and roll. He was a good guitar player, and a thoughtful lyricist. Isn't that enough?

Let the heathen rage. We know better.

Alex

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Max
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 01:01 PM

We have the same argument in Philosophy. Mention Philosophy and most folks will say "Gee I just love Nietzsche." When I was to write my thesis, my professor would not let me even cite Nietzsche. He's way over cited, way over hyped, and most people that talk about him, don't even understand him. The hype diminishes the validity of Nietzsche, it works against him, and I am sure he did not want it.

Granted, RJ has a lot of hype associated with him, and the uneducated may know his name but not Patton's. However, RJ IS TRULY GREAT.

I think he gets such credit as "Father" or "King" because his technique was so precise, that it helped define the genre. I think he recorded very well too, great quality for the era even before the remastering. Terraplane Blues was a hit in 1936 so I am sure folks knew about him then. He toured a lot too, well outside of Mississippi. I'd say that because he was already dead when the 60's revival came around, we're lucky we have anything from him. Few, if any of the other names mentioned in this thread, combined so well, Passion, Depth and Technique as RJ. His guitar technique was precise, rhythmic and furious, his voice was alive, passionate and natural, and his lyrics were intelligent, meaningful and creative.

I am not an uneducated listener. I listen to Charlie Patton, Tommy Johnson, Big Bill Broonzy, John Hurt, Son House, Bukka, Gary Davis, you name it. I play and sing most of it as well. And RJ is my favorite to listen to and to play. Though Broonzy sure gets me fired up as well.

RJ was intensely protective of his songs and technique. My thoughts are that most of the devil myths surround him because he would say that the Devil taught him to play to avoid the real truth… which was that I taught him.

I saw Corey Harris Sunday Night. He's a young Delta/Country Blues guy, that is GREAT. Very wonderful and authentic technique, voice from heaven (sneezes in key) nice personable guy. Anyhow, in addition to his original songs, he played 2 delta cover songs. Did he play RJ? No. He played Blind Blake and Tommy Johnson.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Mark Clark
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 01:18 PM

I remember reading---perhaps on an album cover---that Big Bill Broonzy was a share cropper in Arkansas until he decided to "come north and give his songs to the world." This is laughable when you consider his full musical career but it shows the extent to which the folk revivalists would go to catagorize their "discoveries" forty and fifty years ago.

Peter T. and Max, thanks for puting things in perspective.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 04:11 PM

It really is pure show business to call anyone "King of the Blues" and it's unfortunate that Robert Johnson has been the single reference for so many people who've barely listened to the form. But I don't blame Mr. Johnson for that. As far as I'm concerned, he was a beautiful player and singer with an extraordinary feel and knack for melody.The blues is as much about songs as about anything and I think he's one of the best songwriters I've ever heard. I don't think there's any point in comparing Johnson, Son House, Bukka, Lightning, and the other guys to each other. They all contributed in uniquely brilliant ways to the blues.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: fat B****rd
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 04:45 PM

Great theme and fascinating correspondence. Good points about the difference between harsh reality and the mythology surrounding many Blues players. I would recommend Alan Lomax's "The Land Where The Blues Began" as being full of interviews relating to dreadful circumstances, the fact that suffering did not prevent wonderful music often makes me a little guilty.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 05:10 PM

The Guest posting at 4:11 above was from my sister Susan who is not too sure of the ways of the Mudcat, but I knew I could draw her in to this discussion. I e-mailed the thread to her.

Subject: RE: bashing Robert Johnson
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 05:05 PM

I've been quite amazed by the sound quality of the RJ recordings. I have listened to some Blind Lemon Jefferson and Charlie Patton and found the quality to be almost unelistenable. I also have Mississippi John Hurt's 1928 recording of Avalon Blues and the sound is crystal clear. Perhaps this is why a lot of people know Robert & MJH more than they do their contemporairies.