Liverpool Folk Club 1970

Subject: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:49 AM

I'm trying to recall the name of a Liverpool Folk Music Club that existed around 1970. It was in the city centre, off Lime St and close to St George's Hall. The pub it was situated in ( which, I think, gave the club its name) disappeared as part of the St John's Precinct (and adjacent areas) redevelopment scheme. There used to be a session in the main bar and a sing-around in a room which, if my memory serves me well, was decorated in bamboo. It was held on a Saturday night - and the toilets were a disgrace!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:09 AM

Wasn't it simply The Traditional Club?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:13 AM

The Monastry?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:16 AM

The session was called the Mersey Traditional Gathering. Unfortunately, the name of the pub has gone out of my head. If it comes back I'll repost it. The pub in fact deserves some sort of memorial because it was just opposite the Royal Court Theatre, and the bar was adorned with photographs of old time music hall turns. Rumour has it that Spike Milligan came into the session one night and sang a song. I also recall a mirror down the far end of the bar, which bore the legend "Smoke Butterfly Cigarettes".

In any event, the session operated there from the mid to late 60s, when the pub closed for redevelopment. From there we moved to the Trawler on the Dock Road and from there to the Hare and Hounds on Commutation Row, after which the session petered out.

You were right about the bamboo room and the awful toilets. In fact the whole pub was in a state of massive decrepitude. But the session functioned as a singaround, with occasional booked guests, and operated a policy of (largely unaccompanied) traditional songs only. It was that more than anything which first whetted my appetite for the raw bar.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:18 AM

By God, it's a rare thing to hear from Big J these days. How are you doing these days, John?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:28 AM

wasn't the pub called the Victoria?
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 11:13 AM

The Victoria sounds about right Derek, singaround was run mainly by Tony Wilson. The Vic was one of the few places you could buy fresh Newcastle Brown Ale in Liverpool, I think Tony saw to that as he drank so much of it ;) There was a BBC link a while back on here to a programme about Liverpool, Tony appears in an early shot, drinking (presumably) a pint of Newkee Brown. Whilst the (mainly) unaccompanied singing went on in the 'Bamboo Room' the bar was usually host to a mottly band of musicians led by Bernie Davis (sp?)playing Orange marching tunes, hornpipes and the odd jig, these musicians aquired the name 'Mable's Own Ceili Band' I think referring to the landlady of the Vic.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:03 PM

Derek Schofield:- wasn't the pub called the Victoria?

I believe it was, Derek. I had the Victoria in my mind when posting my earlier message. But I thought I might have been getting confused, because we eventually moved to another Victoria. That was in Canning Place, the very spot where Maggie May was seen cruising.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:11 PM

Yes, it was the Vic. I remember singing in the bamboo room, how could I forget. A bizarre experience!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 04:04 AM

Fred, I would like to say that I'm a shadow of my former self, however no such luck!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 04:42 AM

BigJ. A shadow of your former self? Well, you still put the rest of us in the shade, literally and figuratively. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:09 AM

I remember seeing The Yetties in the Bamboo Room, and being very taken with their use of a little side drum. It seemed, to me, like a very novel innovation at the time. A poster above mention Bernie Davis, and I remember being very impressed with the fact that Bernie always seemed to be really enjoying himself at those sessions.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,LesB
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 03:06 AM

Wasn't it also at the 'Customs House' Canning st, for some time. An amazing pub with a collection of sailors caps (including one from the Scharnhorst autographed by some of the survivours), & the ceiling was coved by draped flags (covered in a deep layer of dust).
Cheers
Les (on laptop)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 04:25 AM

God, I am getting confused. The 'Victoria' which I said was in Canning Place was in fact the Custom House which LesB mentions. That particular venue however was not part of the Mersey Traditional Gathering chain, which started at the St Johns Victoria, subsequently moving to the Trawler on the Dock Road, before running out of steam at the Hare and Hounds.

Some years later, people started congregating in the Custom House on a Thursday night. No songs or music, just a social get together. Then, I think, Frank MacCall decided to start a singaround there on a Saturday, which was the night on which the MTG used to meet.

When the Custom House closed, the pub management and the session moved to a pub which was universally known as Oily Joe's, being just round the corner from Oil Street. I think the proper name of that one must have been the Victoria.

Now, if I could only remember where I put the alzheimers tablets.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 04:54 AM

When you find your tablets,Fred, you can share them with me LOL. Wasn't the Custom House known as Ma Boyles, or has my memory failed me altogether?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 04:56 AM

Talking about Bernie Davis, I remember being in the folk club that used to be in Dale St near the tunnel entrance ( 1970s?); anyway, Bernie was on the stage asking for floorsingers. He spotted Godfrey Boardman standing by the door. " Come on Godrey", said Bernie, "give us a song". Godfrey just smiled. Bernie continued, "It's all right Godfrey, you can bring the door with you!". Godfrey, for those who don't know, has been a fixture of the Liverpool folk scene forever! He is either working by the door ( i.e. handling entrance money) or simply standing by it. Strangely, I've known Godfey for over 40 years, and I'm still not sure if he even likes folk music!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:03 AM

terrier: "Wasn't the Custom House known as Ma Boyles, or has my memory failed me altogether?"

The Custom House wasn't. In fact Ma Boyle's is down behind St Nick's church near the Pier Head. What's now puzzling me is that the Poste House in Cumberland Street used to be a session venue, and it had a nickname similar to Ma Boyle's. Could it have been Mabel's, and was that where Mabel's Ceilidh Band took its name?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:09 AM

I lived in Liverpool for a few months in 1970/71. I remember attending a folk club, in a pub, in the city centre (I couldn't tell you now which pub it was). I recall that it was run by a bloke called Tony Wilson (?) and he had a sidekick called Bernard (?) I remember them as great singers and very welcoming. Three guests that I remember were Roy Harris, Bob Davenport and Mike Harding.

I'm afraid that the details are very hazy now - 38/39 years is a long time! What sticks in my mind, though, is that this was my first time living away from home but I could walk into a folk club and meet new people almost straight away - and it's still possible to do that today (just about).

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 09:14 AM

Tunesmith, was that pub called The Mitre,Dale St. It was on the top floor, L shaped room, which meant if it was full, some of the audience couldn't see who was performing :)
Fred, I seem to remember something like Mabel's Own GPO Ceili..etc. That might tie in with your recollection of the Poste House.
Back to the MTG, another name I remember was Ian Macmillan(sp?) who used to run the nights at the Vic if Tony wasn't there, also memories of a young Willie Russell making his mark so to speak.
Remember M.F.R.A. and the Bristol bus?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 09:52 AM

Schantieman'll know.

sal

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Les B (on laptop)
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 01:10 PM

The 'Mitre' is now called 'The Ship & Mitre', and is Liverpools best cask ale pub. Godfrey is still on the door at Bothy Folk Club , where he has been for the last 40 odd yrs.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 01:13 PM

By the way if anybody wants to see Godfrey or any of the Southport / Liverpool mob, the Elsinor during Whitby Folk Week is the place to find them.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Schantieman
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 03:43 PM

Sadly, I don't know - I'm a necomer to the Liverpool/Southport folk scene, having arrived a mere 25 years ago.   I have sung in the Ship and Mitre, however.

As far as I know, the only regular club in the city now is on Tuesday evening in the Everyman Theatre, downstairs in the 'Third Room'. It's run by Christine Jones (and Hughie is the main resident) and others.


Steve (who's home, briefly, from various floaty things)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 03:08 PM

terrier: "Fred................. another name I remember was Ian Macmillan(sp?) who used to run the nights at the Vic if Tony wasn't there, also memories of a young Willie Russell making his mark so to speak."

Correct. Tony Wilson, later Molyneux, died several years ago, sadly. Ian MacMillan is still around, although he's more into real ale these days. Willie Russell. What ever happened to him? Guess he just kinda faded away and never amounted to anything much :-)

"Remember M.F.R.A. and the Bristol bus?" Do I ever. I used to maintain that bus, which is probably why it never got more than two miles down the road without breaking down. Towards the end, after MacMillan, Wilson and Paddy Doody decided they'd had enough, my role in MFRA became so complicated that I used to claim FRED stood for Fixtures, Research and Engineering Department. I used to drive the damned thing as well, which was great fun when it rained because the cab used to let in water like a leaky sieve.

BTW., MFRA stood for Merseyside Folklore Research Association, research being a big buzz word in those days.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 04:00 PM

I knew Paddy had died some years ago but I hadn't heard of Tony leaving us,very sad, a real character and sadly missed. Ah! Memories :) It's a nice thread, thanks for the info.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:08 PM

This talk brings back memories for me.. anyone remember a club along the Dock road going towards Huskison Dock?? Used to remember if you walked into the pub, one went down a few steps!! You could walk it from the Pier Head (As I did in younger days).
As Aye,
Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 07:19 AM

The Singaround in the Vic was amazing. It moved to the Hare & Hounds and then to The Customs House loosing something or other on the way.

Tony Wilson called a meeting at some point when the Vic closed and suggested all present go on a pub crawl and find a room for the 'Liverpool Folk Club' - a club that would have a collection of residents and book guests of a generally traditional nature - Saturady night in Liverpool City Centre. The result was the Mitre - the L shaped Room that Tom terrier refers to above.

Much fun

L in C
who sang a number of times at all of the above

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Lesb
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:52 AM

The room upstairs at the Mitre was on a level with the flyover & many a time there was much merriment/consternation, when halfway through a song the fire engines would put their sirens on as they passed by at window level, (the station was just round the corner).
The 'Ship & Miter' as it's now called, is one of the best places to get a good pint in Liverpool. We (Southport Swords) dance inside there once or twice a year.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 01:23 PM

Scouse, you're going quite a way down river to Huskisson Dock, past Nelson Dock and Bramley More Dock. both the latter had Irish session pubs, also, on Derby road there was The Cottage, another session pub. I don't remember anything around Huskisson.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 09:46 AM

Just spotted this thread and can confirm all that's been clarifying over its course. Def. The Victoria in St. Johns Lane, and the Mitre it was, on the top floor. Yeh, Customs House too and the other Victoria nicknamed Oily Joes. The Cross Keys too round the back of the Stadium was a late-'70s Thursday club and John Howson was once involved in another - The Vines on Lime Street. btw Godfrey Boardman still does the door for us at Southport's Bothy. Wouldn't be the same without him!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 09:53 AM

Sorry Les, hadn't noticed you'd already flagged up Godfrey's Bothy connection!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 10:01 AM

Clive. In fact the Cross Keys and the Vines were different venues for the same club.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 10:29 AM

Yes Fred - you're right. Wasn't it termed the Liverpool Traditional Club? I recall Tony Gibbons and Shay Black being residents at the former and Tony once berating the audience by saying something along the lines of "you don't just come here to be entertained, you come to be educated." Can't remember what triggered that one!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 10:45 AM

I'm not usually much of a catter but this one has got the old grey matter engaged! What about the Baltic Fleet club that Frank McCall and Helen were involved in - I've got a recording that Stan Ambrose did from there and broadcast on Folk Scene (BBC Radio Merseyside) Also the 'Backyard' club at the Excelsior on Fridays? Again the McCalls were prime movers.
I was briefly a resident at the latter and tried to fix up some stage lighting until someone complained it was too bright and too showbiz. They were probably right and I dismantled it after one week!!!! I think the most memorable night there was with Len Graham and Skylark.
Helen Hebden used to run a singaround in the Ship and Mitre's 1st floor art deco room for a number of years with Les and Chris Trennery. Stop me if I'm boring you all now!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 02:19 PM

One memorable night in the Vic, when the Dubliners were doing a gig the same night at the Royal Court, Luke Kelly wandered into the club during their gig interval and asked if it was all right if he sang a song. Of course it was! I can't for the life of me remember what he sang, but I remember being impressed by what a very nice man he was, and that he'd particularly sought out an informal club night when he could have just stayed with the rest of the band in the theatre.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 02:37 PM

Clive. Wasn't it termed the Liverpool Traditional Club.

Liverpool Traditional Folk Club (I think that gives it its name in full) was the Cross Keys/Vines venue. I remember getting extremely annoyed at one regular audience member, you can probably guess who I mean, for not telling me Kevin Mitchell had played there the previous Thursday. I was living away from Liverpool but used to go there on a Thursday for a night school course and could easily have made the second half. "I forgot", he said. How the hell could you forget a thing like that?

As far as I can remember Tony Wilson wasn't involved with the LTFC, but he was a resident at the Mitre club, which I think was just called the Liverpool folk club. I remember Bob Davenport and Tom Anderson, the Shetland fiddle player, guesting there on the same night.

I also remember the whistle player from the Dubliners (name forgotten) turning up one night so drunk that he played the whistle while literally sliding down the wall.

I also remember Mr. Fox doing a gig there once in the very upstairs room, but that's another story.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 06:02 AM

Who were the Choir Boys who ran a club on a boat in the docks?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 06:24 AM

The Crofters. Before they moved to the Clubship Landfall (the boat in the docks), they had a club in the Central Hotel, Birkenhead.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 07:36 AM

The Crofters? Mmmmmmmmmm doesn't ring a bell (second Mate) but I guess that's right.

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 08:16 AM

Fred, the whistle player from The Dubliners would have been the late Ciaran Bourke.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 09:47 AM

'ullo again dears. I think the Clubship Landfall is still there - barely afloat and a rusting hulk, somewhere near Bramley Moor dock. Would just like to say that there is another Folk Club, (and far be it for me to define what constitutes a 'Folk Club'!) in Liverpool -run by Jacqui McDonald of "and Bridie" fame, once a month at Sefton Park Cricket Club. I haven't been, though maybe I should? I had a fine old time MCing her at last year's Liverpool Shanty Festival - always an entertaining and engaging performer.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 09:59 AM

I was talking to Jacqui a few weeks ago at Taffy Thomas's 60th birthday in the Lake District, where she now lives. If Taffy ever appeared at any of the clubs mentioned, he would have been a teenager or twenty-something! where did all those years go???
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 10:10 AM

Jerry O'Reilly. "Fred, the whistle player from The Dubliners would have been the late Ciaran Bourke."

Hi Jerry. Quite correct. I just couldn't think of his name.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 11:34 AM

Help!!! I've just found three membership cards of Folkclubs in Liverpool 1. Atlantic House Friday Folk Club. 2 The Yankee Clipper Folk Club and 3 Adrian House Folk Club. I can remember the first two but where was the third?? Antone remember???

As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 11:41 AM

Google tells me that Adrian House was a hostel for Catholics passing through Liverpool ... was it a Jacqui and Bridie club?
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 11:55 AM

There was a club out in Aigburth which used to meet on a Tuesday in a Catholic club. I think that might have been Adrian House. To my knowledge Jacqui and Bridie were never involved.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 12:07 PM

I have a piece of archive that I've long treasured. A small orange-backed booklet published by Mersey & Deeside District of EFDSS in 1972 (as the redoubtable Miss Anderson was retiring to be superseded by the Northern Regional Organiser). It has a Performers Index - listing Soloists, Bands and callers, Clubs, Customs. Everything the fledgling enthusiast could wish.
Period adverts abound; - Merseyside Folklore Research Association, mentioned earlier in this thread (Vice-President A.L. Lloyd)- a Club at 'The Yankee Clipper' in Temple Street where I saw Cliff Aungier once, Mike Harding (pudding tickler & maggot breeder). Strewth!
EFDSS annual membership was £3 per individual, and Derek if you don't have a copy, you're welcome to have a butcher's next week!!!!   
PS
According to this priceless document, Adrian House's Organiser was John Davies with Residents, The Kings Shilling - that'll be John, with Frank McCall and John Cornett then. I think Tony Rosney was involved at some stage and also Keith Myers, who'll be supping a pint of Strongarm in the 'Elsinore' Whitby, this time next Monday!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 12:10 PM

Scouse - Adrian House was in Sandringham Drive, L'pool 17 (just off Aigburth Road I think)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 01:05 PM

The 43 Club, 43 Catherine Street, Tuesday nights?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 02:37 PM

Poem 64 of 230: LIVERPOOL

Caught a train, along a long-used line,
    From Manchester to Liverpool.
On that day the weather was fine:
    Sunny - just a little bit cool.
There, I purchased a Walkabout Guide,
    Marked some sights, and headed outside.

As usual when first at such a place,
    I walked to the main art-gallery,
The central mall, and the garden space;
    Then headed down to the wide Mersey.
There, from ferry, I viewed the skyline -
    A good sturdy cityscape, for mine.

From http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 02:46 PM

Can't remember nor trace that one Les. Can offer the 'Liverpool Fishermen' with Bernie Davis and Brian Jaques as Resis at the Yankee Clipper. They made a vinyl (of course) album called "Swallow The Anchor" which must be ultra rare and Jaquesy was in 'Brigantine' - described as "the portable Folk Concert. Available for all types of club, except those with no ale!"
Bill Bracken was the regular at Atlantic House.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 03:01 PM

The 43 was a small informal gathering - I remember Frank and Co - King's Shilling practicing upstairs and coming down to give a three part 30 Foot Trailer

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Shay Black
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 07:21 PM

Well, this is all fascinating, me hearties. Hello to all.

I remember well Adrian House, run by Tony Rosney and John, as it was in my neck of the woods at the time, when I lived in Lark Lane. We often had seamen of every hue suppin' a pint at the bar.

Oily Joe's (The Victoria) was one of the most welcoming singing sessions I ever attended. Who remembers the lad who used to play air guitar on the zipper of his anorak, and sing "Honey Pie"? And John Somebody, who couldn't hold a tune in a bucket, but who eventually moved on to bigger and better things by coming first in "The Worst Singer In The World" at Fylde Folk Festival.

And what about the Thursday night Gregson's Wells, before it was pulled down? Wasn't that the forerunner of the The Liverpool Traditional Folk Club at the Cross Keys and The Vines (the Big House)?

What a myriad of residents we had at Gregsons, including a number of talented bands. Two singers' nights a month, then one night for a "local" guest and the last night for a "national" guest. One of our residents, Dick H. was working in the Liverpool Planning Department, and the story was he had conveniently lost the city council order to demolish the pub, by dropping it behind a filing cabinet. It stood there, alone, on that corner for two or three years while we searched for another venue.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:37 AM

I think Willy Russell ran a club first at the Green Moose Coffee Bar but later with Jim(?) somebody at Childwall Vale or Valley

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:25 AM

Another Peom

When it�fs breezy by the Mersey
Wear a pullie or a jersey
If you�fre not particularly hardy
You can always wear a cardy

If you�fre sailing on the ferry
You�fll hear the famous song from Gerry
Even if you�fre on your own
You�fll never walk alone

On the crossing to Woodside
From the good side to the dud side
There�fs no customs en arrive
Mersey docks and harbour board
And little lambs eat ivy

Wanksabout Verbs

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:27 AM

I remember the Green Moose Coffee Bar. It was situated in the back alley parallel to Church St with Cranes Music Shop on the corner. I remember going into the coffee bar in 1966(?) and guitarist Brendan McCormack was in there playing some beautiful classical music. At that time, Brendan had a - sort of- folk duo with comedian Tom O'Connor; Brendan, sadly, died a few months ago.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:08 AM

The Kirby Town Three?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:18 AM

Reading these postings about one city's folk music making over a 20 year period makes you wonder about the present day scene. As already pointed out, only one club survives in Liverpool centre, at the Everyman, and there is, of course, the thriving Bothy in Southport - both originating in and/or supported by the same people who were involved in the 70s (and earlier). There are a few other clubs I've no doubt on the Wirral, Maghull...
So where does the current day teenage equivalent to us all those years ago get to hear folk music today? No doubt there's a session or two. And the Phil has occasional concerts, and there is the arts centre circuit (Southport, again, and other towns surrounding Liverpool.) But where is that intermediary - where local singers can get up and perform in front of an audience (bit different to a session) and also hear guest performers close up, generally unamplified.
It was a formula that worked extremely well, for a while. Perhaps folk clubs were just a briefly experienced phenomenon whose time has passed. Though there are examples of flourishing clubs around.
I am not being specific to Liverpool here. I spent 3 years in manchester and could have gone to folk clubs, by bus, 7 days a week - in fact, I sometimes did (to the detriment of my university studies perhaps!) I saw some of the best names on the scene at the time. Now there are no folk clubs in the centre of the city or even much in the suburbs.
the folk scene is witnessing a whole host of young talented singers and musicians - think of all that talent performing in the folk clubs of the 60s and 70s! It might have made some of them better able to relate to an audience, better able to project to an audience, but we would have been wowed by the talent! But ... where are the young audiences to go alongside them? Some of them are at festivals - Towersey springs to mind, but today's young audiences seem not to want to sit in concerts!

sorry if this hijacks the Liverpool folk club reminiscence thread, which I am really enjoying.
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:19 AM

Thanks Shay!!! The one place I was tryin' to remember was "Oily Joes." one guy says it was the other Victoria!! But where the hell was Oily Joes???

As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:22 AM

Oily Joe's was on the Dock Road in north Liverpool, near to where the old British and Irish Steamship ferries used to sail from. In fact it was right next to Oil Street. Hence the name.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,baz parkes
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:59 AM

Clive's John who "couldn't carry a tune in a bucket" is John Fellowes, alive and well and living in Shrewsbury. Still singing with or without bucket.

The bus ride back from Oily Joes was always an "experience"...

Baz

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 07:22 AM

Brings back lots of memories about Liverpool in the 60s & early 70s. You all forgot to mention the Ale House Folk Club which started in the "Conservative" club on Townsend lane and moved to a pub further up Breck Road then finally ending up at the Cattle Market. Run by the Old Rope Band with loads of guests and floorsingers including myself and my wife soon to be - Maggie -
In fact the liverpool Ceilidh Band played at our wedding reception in the Cattle Market on Prescott Road in 1972.

Anyone remember the "Air Guitarist" Ken Adams?

In those days we could go to a different folkclub eavery night and often did. We also spent many late hours at the house of John Fellowes - a poet - and going straight on to work.
Alas time has taken its toll although we still get involved in the folk scene down in Hampshire.
Regards to old friends

Pete (& Maggie)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 07:26 AM

Not guilty Baz, on the John Fellowes allusion - was that young geezer Shay Black, but I do like his turn of phrase! I think I'm right in saying Rod Baxter has won that "Worst singer in the world" award more times than most at Fylde?
Derek's most recent post probably lies at the heart of the 'where on earth do we go from here and who's going to nurture the grass roots when us old guard are no longer here?' debate. Liverpool's situation where one had in 1970, a choice of clubs to attend ANY night of the week, simply mirrors what's happened nationwide. I'm blowed if I know where to start on any sort of resolution but I can remember going to heated Festival workshops on the self-same subject over 30 years ago!!!! - and don't get me started on open mic nights!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 12:18 PM

Old Rope were good, three lads I think - we did a Mummers play with them autumn of 72 and some busking for a charity around the same time.

Keith and erm ........... Ken and erm ................. Also remember Babara from Birkenhead - excellent voice

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 12:20 PM

Keith and Ken.

Could that be Keith Price and Ken Dunlop? Both fiddlers. Keith is still around, he resides at the Everyman Folk Club, but I haven't seen Ken in donkey's years.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 12:28 PM

They were indeed and two fiddlers at that. Who was the third man? So to speak

cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Shay Black
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 12:53 PM

I think the "third man" was a woman called Sue.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:03 PM

Well, 'he' was about 6' 2" and I think he had a beard but that may not be relevant

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:36 PM

Hi I remember all those pubs and clubs. My sister is Barbara Bennion who sang with Frank McCall and lots of others as well and was involved in the folk clubs. The Spinners had their club on a monday at Gregsons Well and was the first club that I went to. I was about 13 at the time and my sister made me go cause she wanted to do a floor spot there and yes Godfrey was on the door.It's John Howson's 60th in September and he is having a get together at the Everyman bistro. Les are yo the Les that was a male nurse ? BTW my sister still sings in a duo with her new husband Peter Snape.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:57 PM

Kieth and Ken were in a trio and I can't remember the other guys name.Can't remember what they were called. They ran a folk club on a Thursday in a pub, I think was called the Slaughter house? They always opened the night singing , "The Bonny Ship The Diamond" etc.
Does anyone else remember the irish sessions in Ye Olde Crack Rice street on a Wednesday?The Customs house ran on a Saturday night and was hosted by Frank McCall who sadly died.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:05 PM

Ah sorry banjoman. Old Rope at The Cattle market, of course.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:26 PM

Well Guest,

Barbara Bennion was indeed the excellent young singer I remember. I was not a male nurse but a male teacher and ran a club, The Bag End Folk Club, in Ellesmere Port. 72 - 73 the residents were, amongst others Ken from Chester and Barry from Birkenhead who were both friends with Barbara,

Best wishes to all

Les in Chorlton

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:04 AM

Barbara Bennion(now Snape) & Peter, are booked at Whitby this year. So if anyone wants to catch up, she will be there. By the way I'm not a nurse either.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:53 AM

Sue Webster it was with Ken and Keith, (she's into operatics now) though that was in the latter days when we'd become a larger unit with myself and Sean Murphy - 'Jack Ketch Band.' We added Mick Rimmer on electric bass and enjoyed some good years as an English Music Band, doing dances.
Could the original third member of Old Rope have been Ted Barwise? - now also deceased. Keith Price has started coming along to the Bothy recently and I could always quiz him. I can confirm that Ken Dunlop though isn't active in music these days and even Pricey hasn't seen him in ages.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Andy Seagroatt
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 04:40 AM

I was in Mabel's Own Ceilidh band which used to play regularly in The Post Office pub which was round the corner from the Green Moose as well as at the Victoria on Saturday evenings. Mabel was the very sharp tongued landlady of the Post Office! It was put together and named in order to enter a competition for the first Liverpool Folk Festival which was held in the Bluecoat. Another entrant was The Liverpool Shantymen which was put together by Tony Wilson with the aim of having the maximum number of members allowed for a group (12 if I remember rightly - I also sang with them on that occasion). I can't remember who won, it was either Mabel's Own or the shantymen. It was judged by Bert Lloyd I think. This was probably in 1967 or 1968.

Members of Mabel's own were myself on banjo, Rod Davies (fiddle), Bernie Davies (melodeon), Stan Ambrose (Whistle), Tony Murphy (Triangle), Richie ? (Whistle and bodhran), Pete Rowley (whistle), Jim Byrne (Snare Drum) and maybe others but I'm not sure now. We were never very serious but it was good fun.
All the above are recollections some of which could be wrong of course!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 07:58 AM

The first Liverpool Folk Festival was in 1966. The "competition" was judged by Shirley Collins. The Irish Traditional Music Archive have a copy of the vinyl L.P. entitled Liverpool 66,featuring, amongst others, The Liverpool Ceili Band, The West Kirby Band, Bill Bracken, The Valley Folk, Dave Hoye and Hector Gilchrist.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 08:06 AM

I seem to remember a Shirley Collins look-alike contest which may or may not have been won by Bernie Davies in a nice frock

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 08:46 AM

Pete Rowley, I haven't heard that name for ages. What a character he was. I used to love him singing in that "pub style" voice, and that thing he used to do where he would sort of double back on himself in a chorus which left the audience ahead of its self - if that makes sense!Anyway, folkies out there who remember Pete will know what I'm trying to explain.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Mr Happy
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 08:53 AM

If my memory serves me right, Pete Rowley, didn't he also play melodeon?

If it was him, then he'd play 'Billy Boy' beginning in'D', then partway through the chorus he'd change key to 'G', leaving the audience wrong footed - hilarious!!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 09:15 AM

Musician with The SS as I remember

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 09:46 AM

That's Southport Swords, not the teutonic one.
I remember at a Bothy ceilidh, Pete having this stuffed rat (not a real one, just realistic) to which he had a long length of elastic. One end of which was tied to a chair at one side of the dance floor (in front of the stage) and under his foot at the other side.
At just the right moment, when Mike Harding was in the middle of one of his rambling intro's, he lifted his foot.
Mike nearly fell off the stage laughing.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 10:19 AM

<>

West Kirby band still going (though probably with different members), Valley Folk starring young Steve Heap (now Mrs Casey!) and Hector Gilchrist (then from Crewe Sing Out Folk Club, now resident in the home counties and a visitor to Sidmouth FolkWeek for the last few years).

Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 01:11 PM

Ah yes Les, Barry Walmsley and Ken Wood.
I remember Pete and he was hilarious. He always kept a straight face which made him even funnier. I also remember Bernie Davies singing the Guiness song standing on one leg on a chair with a blow up seagull on his shoulder.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 01:46 PM

True enoughski Barry Walmsley and Ken Wood. Ken was living in Mytholmroyd or some where with a similar spelling and Barry left for Brumish just before the last war.

Bernie and Pete were great fun for sure.

L in C
On the way to The Singaround at the Beech

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,joyce bennion
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 02:19 PM

Hi andy, am I right in thinking that Paul Simon played at the Green moose? The Green moose was before my time.
John Fellowes was known as ying tong John because he often sang a song that sounded like he was singing in chinese.
Oily joes sing around on a Saturday was hosted by Frank McCall.
Is there still a session at Ye Olde Crack Rice street?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 07:45 PM

Somewhere up the thread there was mention of Adrian House Folk Club in Aigburth. Alan McMahon and I took over the organising of it when Kings Shilling split (I was then called Joan Harvey). Adrian House was a Knights of St Columba clubhouse. Somewhere I have a cassette tape of a recording done at the club of a number of the regular floorsingers and residents.

At that time there were folk clubs every night of the week in Liverpool, and all well attended.

There was an excellent A5-size monthly magazine, "Spin" (produced by the Spinners), which included a number of songs (with tunes) plus song histories, a ballad section, a sea shanty section, and club info, of which I still have a number of treasured copies. When you got up to sing a traditional song, the audience may well have known more about the song than you, and would be at pains to tell you if you gave out the wrong information about it, or conversely would congratulate you on good research if you were able to tell them something new.

Nowadays, audiences know more about the singers than the songs, and are more likely to tell you if your version differs from the most popular version. How times have changed...

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 04:21 AM

Spin was excellent have nearly all copies and still trawl them for songs to sing,

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 04:32 AM

Thanks, Fred I knew there was a club on the Dock Road. Now all I have to work out is how I managed to get to Adrian House Folk club in Aigburth, and back again when I lived in Wallasey?????? It a long way to travel. Anyone remember what time the last boat left the Pier 'ead for Seacombe an was there a bus running up to Liscard???? I must have walked!!! Oh,shit.. Halcyon Days..

As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,joyce bennion
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 04:44 AM

The last ferry to Birkenhead was midnight and we often had to run to catch it. The landing stage was really scruffy and exposed.There was an all night bus through the tunnell that you could catch at the tunnell entrance which ran hourly. It was brilliant craic on the bus which stopped on the other side by the old Birkenhead market where everyone made a dash for the waiting taxis.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 05:01 AM

Scouse,

re Adrian House. I used to get the bus back to the city centre and then catch the train. This was before public transport deregulation when buses were run for the benefit of the users. And they used to run to time. And of course pubs closed at 10-30 so it was possible to be back at Central Station in time to get the 11pm train.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 05:36 AM

Last buses. Living in Crosby, I think the last Ribble bus was 11pm, or perhaps a little later, but that involved a walk across Crosby to where I lived. When I moved to Manchester for university, I was pleasantly amazed to find all-night buses (which cost extra)!!
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 06:03 AM

Joyce asks if Paul Simon played at the Green Moose. I don't remember him playing at the Green Moose but I do remember him playing in Jim Pedan's club in Sampson and Barlow's sometime in 1964/65. Jim's group were called The Calton Three if I remember rightly.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 06:41 AM

Jerry O'Reilly. Joyce asks if Paul Simon played at the Green Moose. I don't remember him playing at the Green Moose but I do remember him playing in Jim Pedan's club in Sampson and Barlow's sometime in 1964/65. Jim's group were called The Calton Three if I remember rightly.

That was the very first time I ever went to a folk club. September 1965. Sampson and Barlow's was in London Road, and the club used to be in a cellar with hot water pipes running across the ceiling. The resident band was indeed the Calton three. Jim and Shirley Peden and Cy Baxter. Cy dropped out shortly afterwards and his placed was taken by the enormous John Kaneen. Yup, Big John from the Isle of Mon.

If I remember correctly, the same establishment was also the home of the Washhouse which was run on a Saturday night by Pete McGovern.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 07:40 AM

John Kaneen! I was very impressed with him back in 60s. Nice guitarist, and a fascinating repertoire: Stanley Holliway monologues, Flanders and Swan's "Have some Madiera, my dear", and some great American material.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 07:53 AM

You're right Fred, Sampson and Barlows was also the home of The Washhouse on Saturday nights with Pete McGovern and Billy Moore. You'd need to get there before 6.30 on Saturdays to be sure of getting a seat. And lovely pints of Younger's ale as well. Halcyon days!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 08:02 AM

If I've got this right - and I think I have, I was in the Washhouse Club the night Dylan played Liverpool with The Band during the famous "traitor" tour, and people were coming late into the Washhouse Club boasting that they had walked out on Dylan when he started his electric set. Does anyone out there know if that Dylan's show was on a Saturday night - or did I imagine all the above?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 08:06 AM

God bless the internet! Dylan played Liverpool -with The Band- on May 14th 1966 - and it was a Saturday night!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 09:24 AM

I remember John Kaneen used to do loads of Australian songs.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 09:57 AM

Just to confirm that the third member of Old Rope was indeed the late Ted Barwise -
Someone also mentioned Barry Walmsley - My wife Maggie was singing in a duo with him when we first met in the Mitre. They had a habit of singing very long unacompanied ballads which I claim always gave me time to get down to the bar for another pint before they finished.
I have now converted her and she is a fine banjo player but still sings some beautiful unacompanied songs as well.
Hoping to be in Liverpool later this year and will try to meet a few old friends.
Some of you may also know my brother Mike Finucane who died earlier this year - a fine guitarist and singer who frequented the Everyman Bar I think.
Always claimed he was an Irish Gypsy but was, Like me, Liverpool born & bred

Pete (& Maggie)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 10:39 AM

Over about 50 odd years I have enjoyed all kinds of "Folk" groups / bands/ music, and during the 60s/ 70s in Liverpool.

Has Liverpool produced more or less exceptional groups / bands / individuals than other Cities?

Names?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,John Howson
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 12:02 PM

Although I've now lived in deepest, darkest Suffolk for the passed thirty years, I suppose I should put my oar in!

The first folk club I went to was Jackie and Bridie's which was held at the Domestic Mission in the Dingle. A gang of us used to go when we were in the fifth year at school. It was not licensed so we had no problems getting in. The first three guests I saw there were Packie Byrne, Trevor Lucas and Christie Moore. Not a bad start I suppose! We then regularly went to the Spinners and Carlton Folk club (Monday and Fridays at Gregsons Wells) and on a Sunday night it was the Bothy in Birkdale or the Leesiders in Seacombe. Then we discovered the Green Moose Coffee Bar in Brooke's Alley. Colin was the owner then, followed by Ted (and finally Brian Ferguson -'Fergie'). It was always our meeting place on Saturday afternoons and Thursday night the Kirby Town Three's folk club was held there, run of course by Willie Russell. I think that was the first club I sung a song at in public. On a Friday night after the Carlton club Ted would open up the Moose for late night coffee and bacon butties. I remember one night Carthy and Swarbrick had played a concert at the Philharmonic Hall and they came down, but without their instruments, so Martin borrowed the crappie house nylon strung guitar and Dave borrowed a tenor banjo from a couple of young musicians from Scotland who always seemed to be around. They were known as the Carrick Folk and were Tich Frier and Davey Johnson (a brilliant banjo player who has been Elton John's guitarist now, for many years). I was then a regular at Vic (MTG) on a Saturday and a member of MFRA and travelled on the big green bus to festivals and customs all over the country. We all used the Customs House in Canning Place and I had my Twenty First birthday there. As for Oily Joes – too many memories to relate!

My first musical adventure was when I formed a group called the Wakes with accordionist Tom Brown and singer Frank McCall, and we played most of the clubs in Merseyside. After that I played with Bernie Davis as a duo for many years and along with Tony Wilson (Molyneux) started the Liverpool Folk Club at the Mitre. I then teamed up with Barbara Bennion (Snape) and again we performed all over the area and we were invited to become residents and the new Liverpool Traditional Folk Club when it was started at Gregsons Well. I compered the first night and somewhere I have a recording of the programme Stan Ambrose made for Radio Merseyside. The club moved to the Cross Keys and finally the Vines (the Big House) in Lime Street. At Gregson's Well other residents included a superb Irish music band called Seoda Ceoil which comprised of Mick and Elaine Johnson, Shay Black, Tony Gibbons and Davie Brennan. That reminds me that I haven't mentioned Monday nights at the Irish Centre in Mount Pleasant, The Liverpool Ceili Band, trips to Ireland and of course my dear old mucker Bruce Scott. That's another story!

If anyone from past would like to get in touch you can contact me via [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 02:51 PM

Whilst we're at it, how about a big round of applause for the Black Diamonds. Ran a Friday Club in Chester (The Tuning Fork) which was at the Cross Foxes and moved to the George and Dragon. I recall being part of a Southport Mummers team which had a booking there in the early '70s. They also, I think, had a residency at the Tuesday club at Haskayne near Maghull. That was called the the County Folk Club, whose residents were called after the Club. I think the Black Diamonds - a trio, Chris & Robin Sherwin and ?????????????? (John Finnan?) followed them as organisers. Robin is sadly no longer with us though I see Chris from time to time. I thought the BDs excellent and the Haskayne club generally, well-regarded. The last gig the Jack Ketch Band to which I referred earlier did as purely a song group as opposed to the Dance Band we became, was there.
Enough from me for a while as I'm off to Whitby, without a laptop but this is a truly absorbing thread. "If we had the chance to do it all again, tell me would we, could we?" Well I guess some of us haven't stopped!!!!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 03:35 PM

John and Margaret Finnan!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 05:17 AM

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I guess the Leesiders are under-reported because they went professional and were not really part of the Greater Liverpool collection of clubs and pubs and people. But they were good and their Club was excellent

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 07:19 AM

In the early days their seemed to be lots of folk groups that were a bit like The Spinners and J & B but at some point a sort of "Folk Stalinist" attitude emerged. Perhaps it was something to do with The Singers Club influence and people going to Whitby and hearing lots of 'traditional music'.

It certainly made a lot of us thing a lot more about what was 'folk' and 'trad' and so on and stop singing silly songs made up last week - although some of us still do. I'm not at all sure I, or lots of others, were ever really sure what was what, but one effect was to create a critical attitude in which keeping heads down was often important.

Ring any bells?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Steve Howlett
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 09:07 AM

I was in Liverpool from 1970-74. I remember a folk club (on a Wednesday night?) at The Old Fort pub on Prescott Street, run by Maggie somebody. John was a regular - I spoke to him at Banbury FF a couple of years ago after he'd sung "Down at our school" in a latenight singaround. Glad to see he's still going strong, though his singing is no better!

Opposite the pub was a building site for the (then) new teaching hospital. One of the Irish labourers used to come over and sing "Rock Candy Mountain". One evening, shortly after the introduction of "Diplock Courts" in Northern Ireland, he sang a song he'd written himself, which had the chorus "They're locking up my countrymen without any trial. Oh! Freedom!" Tears streamed down his face as he sang it. We didn't see him again after that. I heard later that he'd gone back to Ireland and joined the Provos.

Then there was the night the Orangemen came in after their march through Liverpool and day out with the wives and kids in Southport. All us lefties in the front bar were suddenly drowned out by Loyalist choruses from the back bar. So we joined them, swapping songs and tunes all night.

I remember Ken Dunlop and Old Rope. Another regular was an old black guy who would just sit and take the piss, especially if somebody sang "Old Molly Metcalf" - he'd just keep repeating "Yan tan tether mether pip" - but could sometimes be persuaded to sing. Can't remember his name.

Maggie also ran a club in Birkenhead called The Fox In Grapes, which booked occasional guests.

So many memories...

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 09:50 AM

Where the hell was the Grapes??? Was it in Oxton Road?? I seem to remember something going on there!!
As Aye,
Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Steve Howlett
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 03:58 AM

You got off the ferry, turned right and walked over several bridges, so it must have been near the Dock Road. I can't find the pub now on beerintheevening or Google. Maybe it's gone. Oxton Road looks to be too far from the docks.

[tangent]When did Birkenhead get a Chester postcode?[/tangent]

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 04:03 AM

It's all part of the creaping gentrification of Merseyside

L in C
Which pub had the Leesiders Folk Club?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 04:23 AM

The Leesiders was in the Central Hotel just off Argyle Street, where the big roundabout is now.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 05:06 AM

Do either / any former Leesiders still sing?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 01:07 PM

I think Bob Buckle makes his living with song presentations in schools.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,John Howson
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 06:37 PM

If anyone knows the whereabouts of Pete Douglas (the other Leesider) I would be pleased to know.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 10:07 AM

The club at the Old Fort in Prescott St was run by myself (pete) and my then fiance Maggie (nee Bowers) for many years. I was there on the night the Orange Lodge came in and being a devout catholic joined in their songs and we had a great night. The club was frequented by lots of poets as well as singers. I think the pub is still there opposite the hospital which dominates the area now.
We also had a passing involvement with the Grapes in Birkenhead and I remeber booking the Songwainers there.
Pete

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,joyce bennion
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 11:42 AM

I remember the Old Fort and The Grapes. I remember Maggie and Pete. You prob remember my sister, Barbara Bennion more than me.The Grapes didn't run for long.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 10:58 AM

Hi Joyce - great to see you are still about. Maggie and I well remember both you and your sister. We are still very involved in the scene in Hampshire and also play in The Old Trout Band which is a regulat at Broadstairs Folkweek. We also do a lot of singing at local clubs. I, for my sins, now make banjos - pretty good ones. Hence the name.
We are still in touch on a regular basis with John Cornette of Kings Shilling and he and his wife Bernie are Godparents to our youngest son Andrew.

Its great to see so many old friends are still about
Pete

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:17 PM

The first folk music events that I attended in Liverpool were a series of concerts at the old Hope Hall(now the Everyman Theatre)in 1964. I think I went to two concerts - maybe three. I was trying to recall who was on. Certainly, Bill Clifton the American folksinger/bluegrass artist was on, and I think the trio with Martin Cathy(The Thamesides?) were also on. Can anyone out there recall these events?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:21 PM

The Three City Four?

Saw Alexis corner upstairs - who sold Martin that Martin that he played for ever

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 02:58 PM

I remember the concert Tunesmith refers to. September 1963. In fact it wasn't Hope Hall, which by then had become The Everyman Cinema.

I caught the show at the Phoenix cinema in Wallasey Village, which was owned by the same bloke who owned the Everyman. Apart from Clifton, there was the trio with Martin Carthy, except they were down to two. MC and a rather buxom lass in a black dress. They were indeed called the Thamesiders. The other act that night was Jacqueline and Bridie.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:09 PM

Fair enoughski Fred but I still saw Alexis corner upstairs - who sold Martin that Martin that he played for ever.

I remember another Wallasey-ish group, three blokes, but have no memory of what they were called - good bit of harmony singing and quite funny. Seem to remember a big bloke with red hair

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:32 PM

Fred, it was definitely the Hope Hall where I saw the shows. In those days I had relatives in South Hunter Street ( just around the corner from the Hope Hall) and I remember walking from there to the concerts.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:51 PM

Didn't Martin replace Long John Baldry in the Thamesiders with Red Sullivan (vocals) Marion Mackenzie (vocals/guitar) and her husband Pete on double bass?
Can't remember what year.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:23 PM

I remember taking part in a concert held in the theatre at the side of St George's Hall sometime in the 60s(1967ish?). I can't remember much about it, but I know the Bothy Folk Singers and Willie Russell were part of the show. Does this ring a bell? I also recall seeing Planxty at the same venue and lots of people were complaining that this guy Paul Brady ( from the dodgy Johnstons) had been brought in to replace Christy Moore. BTW, I've just remembered another performer from those Hope Hall shows: Fred Jordan.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 10:34 AM

Fred Jordan. Saw him at The Spinners folk club. He Turned up in collarless stripy grandad shirt, braces, big baggy trousers and old boots not laced up.His dress prompted some folkie teachers and nurses in the audience, to discuss wether they should wear their work clothes to any of their future gigs at folk clubs. Quite funny discussion.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 12:34 PM

I wonder does anybody remember Noel Scanlon? Fairly young bloke. Irish. Helluva good singer as I remember, who had an unfortunate tendency to get extremely drunk on a Saturday night. This was so much so that the Mersey Traditional Gathering reluctantly had to ban him.

Can anyone remember which part of Ireland he was from, also any of the songs he used to sing? The only one I can bring to mind was a song about a stowaway called the City of Baltimore.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970 etc etc!!!
From: GUEST,Tony Davis
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:01 AM

Green Moose Coffee Bar
Among other noble functions the Moose held the few(?) meetings (monthly?) of the well-intentioned but fairly short lived Liverpool Folk Federation.
The one I remember most clearly was when a letter from a guy called Paul somethingorother asking - nay demanding! - a fee of I think thirty pounds for an appearence - at a folk club no less!
When we stopped laughing I think it was deemed not worthy of an answer....
I STILL think we were right not to bother..,..Then he pinched Martin Carthy's version of Scarborough Fair ...and the rest is history..Yes Geoff, I know he wrote a good 'un "sitting on Widnes(?) railway platform but I ask you! £30 for a solo singer in a folk club!
Oh yes, SPIN Magazine was edited and produced by Beryl Davis with regular Shanty and Sea Music contributions from the great Stan Hugill, a Ballad fascinating column by Leslie Haworth, (father of Colin!)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Andy Seagroatt
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 09:55 AM

Just caught up after coming back from Whitby - some more recollections prompted by this thread:

Like John Howson, I started off going to Jacqui and Bridie's Club when I was 15 although I don't remember him from that club, only the Calton Club later on (I think it was Calton rather than Carlton after the song, the 'Calton Weaver'. At Jacqui and Bridie's they used to put on tea and sandwiches before the club started (not that I ever went that early). There was Stan Mason tape recorded every night, I wonder what happened to those tapes, and Ron, a concertina player, who used to sit in the front row and knit. And either Robin Hall or Alex Campbell drinking a whole bottle of whisky during the performance from a pint tea mug. A good singer called Louise who was a regular and Anthea ? and her brother - didn't she marry Peter Bellamy or am I mistaken?

John's forgotten that I was in the Wakes very briefly when it started but then I went to college in Leeds so that was the end of that.

We used to have a huge house in Broadgreen in an unadopted road and the MFRA bus was parked outside for a couple of years. I've no idea what the neighbours made of it, we never asked.

I remember John Kaneen's Australian songs as 'The Road to Gundagai' and 'Bloody, Bloody, Bloody' and the cartoon of Bob Dylan on Jim Peden's guitar case showing a rear view of him bending over with 'Another Side of Bob Dylan' written underneath.

And I was at the concert in the theatre at the side of St George's Hall, Willie Russell (now my brother in law) was part of the show with The Kirby Town Three singing 'The Mersey Tunnel is 3 miles long and the roof is made of glass' and 'Bottle of Gin' amongst other songs.

The third Leesider was Pete Hayes.

No one mentions the Spinners much these days but, although I was never a fan, they did a huge amount to popularise folk music during the revival. It's a shame they don't get more credit for that.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:32 AM

Anthea and Chris Birch and - Yes she did marry Bellamy.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:51 AM

Hi Andy. I agree with what you said about the Spinners.They introduced so many people to folk music.Mick Grove went into local politics in wallasey and Hughie Jones is still singing around the folk clubs with his wife, Christine who plays banjo. She was one of the original founders of the Bothy folk club, I think.She played in a trio with Dave Boardman from what I can recall. Hughie was alays a great singer and guitarist. I always thought that Hughie was a "real folkie" and interested in the tradition more than the popular folk music.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 06:21 AM

The trio to which you refer was in fact "the Bothy Singers" who started a club in the city and then moved it up to Southport.They were Dave Boardman,Chris Jones and Stan Ambrose.The club is still
very healthy and being run by Clive Pownceby and others.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:55 AM

Shame, how could you forget Tony wilson?
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Shelagh B
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 10:19 AM

Yes, Godfrey has confirmed that the Bothy Folk were never a trio, and Tony was always in the group. Sadly Tony and David are no longer with us, both having passed away in 2004.
I can also confirm to Tunesmith that Godfrey DOES like folk music.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 10:40 AM

Hi Shelagh. Welcome to Mudcat.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Barbara Snape(ne Bennion)
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 02:33 PM

Wow! this is really interesting. I am Barbara Bennion from Birkenhead. I saw Clive in Whitby and he told me all about this site. I dropped out of the folk world in 1988 when I lived in Burnley. There wasn't much there and other things took over. Then in 2000 I started going to a singaround where in 2004 I met Peter, we began singing together and in 2007 got married. We are very much involved in folk music and have a web site www. thesnapes.org .uk if anyone is interested.
Back to the really interesting stuff. I've been looking through my old diaries going back to 1967 when I first became involved. We went to the Spinners club it was 5/- to get in and the queue went round the block. Angie Gough took the money. We saw Fred Jordan, The Coppers, Packie Byrne, Alex Campbell to name but a few. We went to the Mitre, we saw Bob Davenport, Barbara Dickson, Magic Lantern Mick Maloney and Dave Docherty, Dick Gaughan and Ali Baine to name but a few. The Pez Espania (Sunday)- Gary and Vera were guests one night. The Bothy (7/-). The Pinehurst,(The Alehouse)- I think this moved to the Cattle Market and Old Rope ran it, then later Black Dog ran it. The Pineapple run by Lenny Meakin (my first booking £3.00). The Old Fort was on Wednesdays and Maggie and Pete got engaged on 8th March 1972. We ran the Fox in Grapes with Barry Walmsley and Ken Wood on Fridays and Bernie and John were guests (I was Surprised how good they were). I'm up to the middle of 1972 but I have to go now. However I'll come back to chat soon xxx

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: patryan
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:03 AM

This is fascinating. I was at college in Liverpool from 1971 - 1974 & went to Jacqui & Bridies, the Spinners, Rhonas ( In Bootle ? )The Landfall & the Black Horse West Kirby, amongst others.
I was doing floorspots at the time & there was so much choice. I also went to Adrian House as that was my local & recorded 2 tracks on the cassette that Joan mentioned. I have that somewhere. I also ran the college folkclub at the Pineapple for a couple of years & we had Martin Carter, Mike Harding & Barbara Dickson amongst others.
It was a great time.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Shay Black
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:45 PM

Hi Barbara,

Nice to see you put in your tuppence worth.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 05:58 AM

The club which Maggie & I ran at the Old Fort in Precott St was actually called the "PUNCA" club as it was originally a gathering of local poets before we got involved. The late Tony Rosenbrook coined the name as his poetry was described by one of his school teachers as Peurile Uncouth Neurotic Childish Art" = PUNCA. We had some great nights there and we remember having to remove the hosts of snails which invaded the room which was only used once a week by us. We are still involved in the local scene in darkest Hampshire and are part of the Old Trout Band which gets about a bit now and then. Furthest gig so far was in Northern Germany but thats a tale for another time.
Best wishes to all our old friends
Pete (and Maggie)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:21 PM

Apparently Stan Ambrose has been playing the harp for some time
(see reference to Bothy Club Southport).He and Geoff Speed have
been presenting a programme called Folkscene on Radio Merseyside
for some 40 years and more.Is it on the inhternet please.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:32 PM

Radio Merseyside Folkscene

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Joyce Jennings ne Bennion
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:35 PM

Folk scene.Does it still have the original "Morris On" as the theme tune. Sure it use to be on Sundays.I remember Stan Ambrose at the Spinners club singing, "I live in Trafalgar Square with 4 lions to gaurd me" etc.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: DaveW
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 09:44 PM

A few days ago, a few of you had written about your interest in Pete Douglas of the Leesiders and his whereabouts. I happened to know that Peter is doing well, and is performing each week at a dance resort in Sweden. He has been performing there for 19 years. He is singing, playing his guitar, his mouth organ, even some piano, and is a wonderfully talented entertainer. We enjoy his his humor, not only on stage, but in everyday life as well. As our island resort is a summer business, he spends the rest of the year in a town north of Stockholm where he has for many years been teaching English. If there is any information you would like to pass along to Peter, let me know and I will be happy to do so. I told him a couple of days ago that I would post to the board after reading to him many of your comments. It was a pleasure to see the smile on his face as he was happily surprised that this thread on the forum existed. More later. Dave

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 04:52 AM

Tell him thanks for great nights at the Leesiders Club

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 06:08 AM

Pass on our regards to Pete Douglas and remind him of his "Humble" beginnings in Stainburn Avenue near my mum's
Pete F

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 07:43 AM

Les in Chorlton - PM
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:09 PM


I remember another Wallasey-ish group, three blokes, but have no memory of what they were called - good bit of harmony singing and quite funny. Seem to remember a big bloke with red hair

***************

Maybe the Hooters? [From Hooton]

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 08:07 AM

I remember the Hooters - did they run a club in West Kirby?

Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Bill Bracken
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:39 PM

Hi with regard to Pete Douglas the last time I met Pete was in Gothenberg, Sweden in the late 70s when I was on tour with John Kelly. Pete came to the gig. Glad to hear he is still alive and gigging.
Does anyone know where John Kelly is as we have lost touch and I would really like to hear how he is getting on. I am living in the mountains in Spain and still gigging. Great to read all the info on the Liverpool Folk scene, great days!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:11 AM

Well hello Bill, nice to hear from you. I often think back to "the old days" and you and The Sporting Races of Galway. Glad to hear that your still well and gigging!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:00 AM

GUEST,Bill Bracken,


Regarding John Kelly's whereabouts, he's on Mudcat & his handle is Harmonium Hero.

He's also got a website here http://www.bigalwhittle.co.uk/johnkellyharmoniumhero/index.html
Hope this helps

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Bill Bracken
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:10 AM

Hi Les yes the Hooters did run the club i am still in touch with Rob Jones ( Jonesy ) he writes some lovely songs i recorded Give My Regards To Dublin it gets a lot of airplay here in Spain.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:45 AM

So who were the forgotten group from Birkenhead?

I remember a great 3 part version of:

Brave Admiral Cole he's gone to sea, Oh me Boys Oh
Brave Admiral Cole he's gone to sea, Oh
Brave Admiral Cole he's gone to sea
Along with our ships company
On board The Bold Benjamin Oh

Not to be confused with a group of younger lads called the Sandsiders

Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Bill Bracken
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 08:29 AM

Hi ta for John Kelly info after a long time we are back in touch we had a 2 hour chat ( nothing changes ).

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Keith Myers
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 01:39 AM

Hi All,

What a great thread. Brings back so many memories.
My wife is on here more often than me and said I'd been mentioned.
Not had time to read all the posts but run quickly through them so sorry if I'm repeating anything said already. Well Clive you got it wrong you did not find me in the Elsinor :-( The wife's mother was seriously ill end of last year start of this and the brewery gave her paid time off to look after her so we could hardly ask for time off to go to Whitby. Sure I was involved in running Adrian House in the early seventies until I moved down south for work but it was really run by a committee. There are a number of people on this thread who I remember from those days. One is Pat Ryan - I remember going back to her college halls trying to dodge the nuns :-) and before anyone asks no we where just friends. BTW Pat what was the name of your mate that used to come to the club with you? Bill Bracken was another blast from the past he was a great singer and entertainer and was willing to do a night at short notice which he did for us a number of times when a guest was ill etc. Don't get me wrong he was also booked in his own rite many times. There are also a few other people I remember from those days. One is Lennie Meakin who was a member of Quadrille and ran the club before the committee took over. Many years latter when I was down in Reading and friendly with Graham Metcalf I was surprised to find that Grahame was singing with Lennie in Oxford. Another was Ian Woods who in those days lived near Daresbury but came over to Liverpool on a regular basis and was a regular guest at the club. He also ended up in Oxford and singing with Graham. The last one is Lennie Cruckshank - He didn't sing or play but the club wouldn't have been the same without him. He was there almost every week you'd hear the cry from the back of the room "Give us the Sash" - didn't go down too well with the Knights of Saint Columba :-)

BTW going to Bromyard to make up for missing Whitby.

Cheers Keith

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Adrian House Cassette
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 02:18 AM

Hi,

I have my copy handy...

1. The Three Drunken Maids - Quadrille
2. The Praties                   "
3. Talchuwanna Girls       - Old Rope
4. The Old Alarm Clock    - Pete Whatman
5. McCafferty                   "
6. Soldiers Joy            - Bernie Davies / Mike Lindon
7. Medley                        "

8. Greenland Whale Fisheries

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Pete Rimmer
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 05:23 AM

Good to see all the talk of liverpool Folk Club.
Its always good to hear from old friends,and many of them are still singing,and why not.
There was of course a very big scene all over Merseyside inc Crosby ,Formby and of of course Southport.
Pete Rimmer

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 08:13 AM

Not to mention Ellesmere Port?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 08:35 AM

I used to go the Bothy Club in Southport in the mid-60s/early 70s and the club was very well organised. The Bothy Singers themselves always went out to entertain with a well planned song list, and there were some really talented local floor singers.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 08:48 AM

,,,,,,,, & Chester!!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,joyce Jennings nee Bennion
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 11:13 AM

Lenny Cruckshank sang and played guitar really well. He often played at The old Fort on a Wednesday night. He sang The streets of London and another song about a racehorse. He Played with Joe Rooney who sadly died a few years ago.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Barbara Snape
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 03:03 PM

We used to go to the Bag End Folk Club in Ellesmere Port with Barry Walmsley and Ken Wood, but I don't remember who ran it. In 1972 we went to Nellie's ( the Customs House) on Thursdays and Saturdays, it took over from the Mitre. Afterwards we went into the Canning Place and stayed until the sun came up! I haven't got to Oily Joes yet. Frank MaColl appears alot in my diaries as does Bernie, Flat County String Band, John Kaneen, Tony Wilson, Stan, Fergie, Keith who was a friend of Franks and lived near Sefton Park. Oh and I have a mention of Ann Maloney who had just moved down from Oldham and was teaching travellers on the Dock Road. I'll keep reading I'm nearly at the end of 1973.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 03:18 PM

I ran the Bag End with Ken and Barry until the Summer of 73. Barry left for somewhere Midlandish and I ran it with Dave, Jenny and Lesley and we called ourselves Telford Basin after the canal basin at the bottom end of Ellesmere Port. The Club closed in spring 74 and I left for Bath in Summer 74

Les in Chorlton

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 02:28 AM

Here's a name from the 70s that hasn't been mentioned yet:Gill Burns. It looked for a while like Gill might makes waves on a national level. What is she up to these days?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 03:56 AM

Very interesting that we've heard no mention so far of Barry Halpin and Bruce Scott. Two larger than life characters who were very prominent and were involved with a club in The Railway in St. Helens. Not to mention the fact that they were "barred" from Jim Pedan's club for blowing the froth off beer during somebodys performance. Barry, of course, later died in India and for a while the newspapers tried to make out he was the missing Lord Lucan.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Keith Myers
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 08:19 AM

Seen Bruce Scott a few times at Whitby over the last few years.
He was booked there a couple of years ago.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,pat ryan
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 04:04 PM

Hi Keith My friends name was Anne-Marie & we went to many of the clubs at that time. No-one has mentioned Lorna or Rhona who used to go to Jacquie & Bridies I think. Also a group/duo called Moonshadow ?The Windmill Folk ?    The Black horse at west Kirby was great but we had to leave before the end to get the last train so the nuns didn't lock us out !!!!!                                           I also remember entering a competion at the 2plus 1 on a Sunday night run by ?????                                           Whatever happened to Pete Whatman ?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,John Howson
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 05:51 AM

A couple of posts back there was a mention from 'Liberty Boy' that no one had mentioned Bruce Scott. I think you'll find I did and to answer Fred MacCormick's question about Noel Scanlon. He was a Kerry man and he gave Bruce several songs including 'The Rocks of Bawn' and 'The Deck of the Baltimore'. They are both included on Bruce's 2005 CD 'My Coleen by the Shore'. Noel was a hell of a singer but he was never a part of the folk club scene and sang mainly in the Criterion in Brunswick Road which was run by another Kerryman Peter Scott.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 09:49 AM

John, apologies for forgetting that you'd mentioned "Scotty". I'd hate to see him airbrushed out of this discussion. Besides yourself, I think I have more intimate of Bruce and Barry than most people.
Jerry

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 09:50 AM

Should read "intimate knowledge" above.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Peter douglas
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 10:37 AM

Hi,a couple of people wanted to get in touch, here is my mail address;
    [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Joyce Jennings ne Bennion
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 05:20 PM

We had a "stay back" at the Customs House one night and we were singing some old rock'n roll and Nellie appeared wearing an 1950's bathing costume with a little skirt attatched and started dancing around the bar.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Keith Myers
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:12 PM

Hi Joyce,

You amaze me as far as I remember Lenny never sang or played at Adrian House and he was there most weeks. I can't think he thought he wasn't welcome to sing or play we where happy to let anyone play or sing. Anyone know if Lenny is still around?

Keith

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:39 AM

Someone mentioned Lorna a couple of messages ago - was she the girl who ran a Sunday night club at the Mons in Bootle.
Keith - good to hear your still about - give our regards to Faith - we could share some memories about Whitchurch some day
Pete & Maggie

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,joyce Jennings nee Bennion
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 10:36 AM

I last saw Lenny Cruickshank on TV on Street Matesabout 10 years ago.It was a programe hosted by Davina McCall who ran around the streets looking for mates for people. I will point out here that it was Lenny's son that she was looking for a mate for.He was still in Liverpool.
I was thinking about another pub land lady, Maisie from Ye Olde Crack in Rice street.We used to have an irish session there on a Wednesday. She use to go mad at the guys in the pub and shout ,"no smoking your marahona in here", pronounced "marajorama". She had a hell of a voice on her.With todays customer service and PC society there aren't any landladies of that kind left.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 11:05 AM

Lennie Cruickshank was awarded a medal of some sort some years ago (OBE ??) for service to the community. I think he started up a city farm somewhere in Liverpool 8. I recall seeing him on TV with Glenda Jackson when both were wading through the old sewage pits in Lower Lane discussing his plans to create a fish farm there. Sad to learn that Joe Rooney, lennies singing partner (Black & Tan) had passed away.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Rod Davis
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 01:40 PM

Some great stuff here on this thread! Why doesn't someone write it all down whilst there are still sufficient people around who remember it?

I was amused to see a reference from Andy Seagroatt to Mabel's Own Ceilidh Band. We used to play in the Old Post Office pub round the corner from the Green Moose, much to the annoyance of the landlady, Mabel. It would have been a problem finding another place to play so we hit on the idea of asking Mabel if we could name the band in her honour. This absolutely did the trick and there was no more talk about getting us out. I even heard her telling some guy at the bar "Them's my lads playing in there!" The wonders of PR….

When we played in the band competition at Bluecoat Chambers we provided our usual thrown together sound. Somewhere I still have photocopies of the judges handwritten verdicts, Bert Lloyd just wrote "Good Old Mabel!"

The pub with the bamboo room was the Victoria, down the left side of St George's Hall as you go towards the tunnel. It was notorious for the Newcastle Brown which flowed like water. I would drink six bottles and drive home. Nowadays after six bottles I wouldn't even remember if I had a car……

I first heard about the Spinners Club in October 1960 from a fellow Liverpudlian I met at university. When I came home for the Xmas vacation I joined the club. This was soon followed by the Washhouse in the basement of Sampson & Barlow's, pointedly subtitled "The Singers' Club", a less than subtle reference to the fact that most of the members were floor singers from the Spinners Club who wanted a bigger crack of the whip.

Some years later Pete McGovern himself introduced the Bluegrasss Ramblers when we appeared on Hughie Green's "Opportunity Knocks" at the Granada Studios in Didsbury. We sang and played "Boil 'em cabbage down" but we were told that we had to change the words of one verse as it constituted advertising.

Our original verse ran:

"I bought my girl a pocket watch she swallowed it one day
And now she's taking Epsom salts to pass the time away."

We had to change "Epsom Salts" to "Liver Salts".

In the early days of course Jacqui McDonald played mandolin for the Spinners, I was very impressed with her curly Gibson. A few years later I was privileged to see Doc Watson for the first time when he appeared at the Coach House with Ralph Rinzler.

I clearly remember Paul Simon appearing at Sampson & Barlows several times, it must have been at the Spinners Club. Paul did a sort of egocentric cabaret act rather than the slightly self-deprecating thing the average folk club guest served up. This really got up my nose and I would stay outside drinking until he had finished as I couldn't stand the smarm!

Regarding Jim and Shirley Peden, I also assumed that the group had been called after the song "The Calton Weaver", however when I checked this with Jim he told me that it was because they lived in Calton Avenue just by Penny Lane!

Stan Ambrose once borrowed my Swarbrick and Carthy LP so he could use a tune from it as the signature tune for his radio show. Stan - if you ever get to read this, have a look in your record collection just in case it's still there, it must be worth a few bob by now!

A few names from the dim and distant with whom I am still in contact are Ben Manning, guitarist and habitue of the Green Moose (he worked in Littlewood's IT department). Ben has been living near Minneapolis for many years and he is now retired and makes musical instruments. Alan Ward, mandolinist of the Bluegrass Ramblers, is still around in the London area and is still picking brilliantly; Bob Hughes, guitarist from the same group now lives in Oxford but doesn't play much. Dave Gould, our banjo player, sadly died a few years ago in Israel to which he had emigrated, I am still in touch with Natalie however.
Rosie Davis, (sister of Bernie and myself), lives in E Sussex and is very active these days on the festival scene.

Best regards to anyone who still remembers me! - Rod Davis


I repeat - it's about time somebody did a decent write up about the folk scene in Liverpool, maybe there is one already and I have missed it???

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 03:56 PM

Rod, I'm sure there's a great book to be found in the history of the Liverpool/Merseyside folk scene, and I nominate Clive Pownceby for the job. The lad's got a great turn of phrase and has been in the middle of things for 40 years or so. Who will second the motion?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:12 PM

Thanx for those few kind words! Would I get a fat advance from a publisher? I often wonder what a Motown/Stax fan is doing with such a level of involvement in this absorbing and rewarding music but I am, of course only standing in for the late Tony Wilson - a 6 months tenure that became a way of life.
Gill Burns is back living in Wallasey with long-term partner Richard and steadfastly declining to pick up a guitar. She lived in Herefordshire, near Bromyard for many years. She works in "Folk In Education" or some such body, and if nowhere else I see her annually at John Mackintosh's at-home Burns Night bash in Port Sunlight.
I still have all her records including the single 'Skates And Bananas'and I'm sure she's also got plenty of copies!!!! Loved those songs of hers - 'Romeo' and 'The One About The Beatles' which was deserving of a better title but she never got around to anything more catchy and that tag was what everyone asked her for at the 'Victoria.'

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Bluegrassman
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:53 PM

Alan Ward was playing mandolin last weekend at the Didmarton Bluegrass Festival as part of "A Band Like Alice" one of the finest British bluegrass bands on the scene.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 07:41 PM

We had a Liverpool folk group visit the Orpington Folk Club in 1972. I can't recall their name, they were brillant. All I can recall was a young lady called Jenny, she had a wonderful voice.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 02:45 AM

Rod, great contribution to this thread. One question, was The Spinners club ever in Sampson and Barlows? I thought it was in Gregson's Wells. I never realised that Rosie was your sister, we met at Whitby this year at the Traditional Night Out and exchanged some dancing steps in the interval. What about Ted Owens in the Green Moose, anyone know where he is? Last I heard he was warden of a youth hostel on the Isle of Skye
Jerry O'Reilly

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 03:36 AM

I know this is a daft question but where was the Orpington Folk Club?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 05:41 AM

If anyone does decide to write that book then please let me know as I can probably find a few very old photos (pre digital of course)as well as lots more memories.
Keep the thread going

Pete & Maggie

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 07:08 AM

Jerry,

The Spinners club was indeed in Samson and Barlows in the early 1960s, as was the Calton Club. They both moved to Gregsons Well in the mid-late 60s, sometime after 1965 anyway, possibly when S&B closed down.


"Rod, great contribution to this thread. One question, was The Spinners club ever in Sampson and Barlows? I thought it was in Gregson's Wells. I never realised that Rosie was your sister, we met at Whitby this year at the Traditional Night Out and exchanged some dancing steps in the interval. What about Ted Owens in the Green Moose, anyone know where he is? Last I heard he was warden of a youth hostel on the Isle of Skye"
Jerry O'Reilly

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 12:20 PM

Still dredging up old memories - We used to go to a club at the Windham in Bootle run by a group called the Moonshiners. I recall seeing Pete Stanley & Wiz Jones there and remember the night the place was packed out because Louie Killen was booked. Only problem - he never turned up so we had a great singers night. I think that the guy who played banjo in the group went on to play for Hank Walters Dusty Road Ramblers. Are they still about?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 06:17 AM

btw there's a 1965 photo of the 4-piece Bothy Folk on our website - (www.bothyfolkclub.co.uk) - it's rather good and I've got Tony Wilson's old scrapbook which is full of nostalgia; - photos, press cuttings, jottings and a poster for Cambridge Festival 1966 at which the group was booked. 2 day ticket = £1!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 08:52 AM

My own involvement in the Liverpool folk scene was brief, but to me,
significant. I grew up in Crosby and attended Waterloo Grammar School, 1962-69.

Sometime in the fourth or fifth year, I came across folk music. This was a knock-on impact from Dylan and the protest songs in the charts and its fringes I guess. The school had a strong musical side to it - I was in the school choir, as were several school friends who acquired guitars. We started singing 'folk' songs in the fifth year, I think, when the school was strengthening the House system by having social evenings - the finale to the first evening, in perhaps December 1966, was a selection of songs from the folk
group. No idea now what we sang, but perhaps it included the likes of
Blowing in the Wind, Kumbaya...

By the time we entered the sixth form, we were taking this a bit more
seriously, adding to the repertoire, attending Jacqui and Bridie and
Spinners concerts at the Phil, learning their songs, and making contact with similar folk groups in the other 5 grammar schools in Crosby - Merchant Taylors Boys and Girls, St Mary's (boys RC) and Seafield Convent (girls RC) and Waterloo Park (Girls) Grammar. We did folk nights in the schools etc.

The folk group I was in settled at three people - Graham Matthews, Geoff Holland and I - we were called The Tarrymen. We increased the repertoire, but didn't know anything about the wider folk scene - we didn't even know that folk clubs existed.

After A levels, Graham went to Keele, Geoff stayed in Liverpool and I went to Manchester. We all continued our interest, although
I became the most keen! I joined the uni folk song society, bought the Deep Lancashire LP, and that took me to Harry Boardman's folk club, the Manchester Sports Guild, Bert Lloyd's Folk Song in England, the EFDSS..... By the end of my first year, I'd become secretary of the uni folk song society!

Back in Crosby for the summer, Graham, Geoff and I decided to run a folk club (during the summer, when many folk clubs closed down! Perhaps that's why we got a good audience!). Somewhere during the previous year, we'd come into contact with the County Folk who ran a folk club at The Ship Inn, Haskayne, but they closed for the summer and were at a loose end and we ran the club jointly. The
venue was The Litherland Hotel, Litherland. We had guests every 2 weeks I think, but I can't remember who they were - but the Calton 3 spring to mind.

After we went back to uni, and the club folded, someone else ran a club in the pub - a family band from Liverpool, name escapes me!

During this time - summer 1970, vacations through from 1969 to 1972 - we went to other folk clubs - Liverpool Folk Club at The Mitre started during this time I think, The Bothy at Southport (the Tarrymen sang there). But in 1971, I stayed in Manchester for the summer, and was one of the organisers of Manchester Folk Festival that September. I also went to Sidmouth and Whitby that summer.

During other uni vacations, and after graduation before going to teacher training college, I was in Crosby and went to various folk events. I remember MacColl and Seeger at the Bothy the night of a big football match... After 1973, I was in Crewe where the folk club was held on Sundays, so trips to the Bothy were rare!

During my time attending folk clubs in liverpool, I came across John Howson (who later came to do his teacher training at Madeley or Alsager and who came to the Crewe clubs once or twice - I think we went back to Liverpool at weekends), Barbara Bennion/Snape, her friend Mary (now in Newcastle), Stan Ambrose, Tony Wilson/Molyneux. I remember Bruce Scott singing at the Mitre, Bernie Davis who also went to Sidmouth in 71. Others I've met since, eg Clive at the Bothy, Geoff Speed, John Kaneen.

It's been a good thread - keep it going!

Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 11:02 AM

Derek, congratulations. You're the first person I've ever met who admits to having grown up in Crosby :-).

Actually, MacColl and Seeger seem to have had a penchant for clashing with football matches in Liverpool. The first time I ever saw them was at Jacquie and Bridie's Coach House Club in the Dingle in 1966. The world cup was being played in England that year and Liverpool's Anfield ground was that night the venue for an important game involving England. The devil only knows where MacColl and Seeger put up, because every scrap of accommodation had been booked out long before. I do recall that they arrived very late though, as a result of tangling with all the traffic.

Bob Dylan was also in town that night, doing a photoshoot in the north end of Liverpool. But that's another story.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 11:08 AM

You are very cheaky Fred McCormick! Clive Pownceby of this parish lives in Crosby, as does the secretary of Comholtas in Liverpool, so watch out! My mum was born in Anfield - is that better?
I never thought I would express knowledge about football on Mudcat, but the England games in 1966 were played at Goodison Park, not Anfield. I know, I went to two of them - in fact, the last professional football matches I ever attended - though I was offered free tickets for Crewe Alex earlier this year! Ah, I did say "professional" ....
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Rod Davis
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 11:27 AM

Not only was the Spinners Club in Sampson & Barlow's,but Sam Leach's Peppermint Lounge also! But of course the Spinners eventually moved to Gregson's Well.

Rosie Davis is not only my sister, she's also Bernie Davis's sister!

Barry Flynn was the banjo picker with the Moonshiners, I saw him many years ago at the Peterborough Country Music Festival when he was playing with Hank and the Dusty Road Ramblers. At the time I was playing with the Armadilloes, a tex-mex-bluegrass outfit which included Alan Ward, Rick Townend, Rosie Davis, Peta Webb and Tony Engle, (+ bass player Keith Calton/Laurie Harper/Alex??)We even appeared at the Liverpool Folk Festival and at The Cavern where Bernie played bass for us.

The last time I saw Barry was at the Phil Concert for the 50th Anniversary of the Buddy Holly gig in March '08. He was appearing with the Britannia Bluegrass Band and I was with the Quarrymen (Lennon's old outfit which was where I started out on banjo aged 14). We met up in the Phil pub later and on the Quarrymen's website there is a photo of the whole band, with Ted Costello, Pat Lindon, Pete Mackie and Kenny Johnson.

I haven't heard of Ted from the Green Moose, but I do have a photo of Silky (Irene), now Fergie's wife, working behind the counter!

Keep'em coming! - Rod Davis

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Rod Davis
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 11:31 AM

I forgotto add the URL for the photo of Barry Flynn and the Britannia Bluegrass band. Here it is


http://www.originalquarrymen.co.uk/html/phil.html

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 02:06 PM

The wonders of the internet and Clive Pownceby's archives! MacColl and Seeger at the Bothy 14 June 1970 - the night that England lost to West Germany in the final of the world cup in Mexico!
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 05:12 PM

I can also tell you that the very first Guest booked at the Liverpool Bothy (before Southport was colonised) was Cyril Tawney - a fact he never forgot and I'd like to think was rather proud of, 'cos I've got a letter he sent us years later reminding us of the fact! His gig was 8th February 1965 and the venue was the 'Cattle Market,' - a Walkers pub in Prescot Road with even the publicity proudly advertising its being near Stanley Abbatoir!
Again, there's a copy of the flyer on our website. Tony's name had been missed off by the printer and had to be added on with biro! The club's very first night had been 23rd November 1964, so I guess they had to save up to pay Cyril his £5!
Quite apart from the Resident Singers, you'll find detailed "Resident Guests" - Hilary and Joan. A odd concept. What was all that about?

Anyway after the Southport branch had been opened, in late April '65 firstly at the 'Railway Hotel' on Chapel Street - running there for 6 weeks until the huge crowds demanding entrance forced a move to the larger 'Blundell Arms' in Birkdale, both branches ran concurrently until mid-1966. Robin Dransfield was the final Liverpool Club guest on 13th July before the pressures of running both outlets meant something had to go. With so many competing Liverpool clubs and just the one operating in Southport, it was decided to concentrate on the newcomer.
We stayed at the Blundell until the end of 2003. Godfrey Boardman's Membership books from those early days reveal in excess of 800 members per annum (quite apart from any visitors) and of course you had to be queueing outside really early (pubs only opened on Sundays at 7PM back then) to stand any chance of getting in. Heady days indeed.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 03:42 AM

I think I arrived in Liverpool in early 1965. I can date it because it was the first time Liverpool F.C. won the F.A. Cup. I remember the huge parade down Lime Street in the open topped bus. For me the Washhouse was absolutely wonderful, because of the quality of the floor singers. Tony Murphy singing "We're Harriers, We're Harriers, we dont like people getting in our way", numerous contrubutions from John Kaneen, and a lad called John Whitehead who sang with a guitar. We formed a "group", John Whitehead, Glenys Owens and myself and did some gigs around Cheshire, including the club at Winsford, and had to run to get the last train back to Liverpool.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 07:17 AM

The Cattle Market in Precott Rd ? I was involved with Old Rope when they moved the Ale House Club there. Maggie & I also held our wedding reception there in 1972 with the Acme? ceilidh band providing the music. Does anyone remember Ken Adams who was the "Original" Air Guitarist always looking for a floor spot and provided lots of laughs.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,joyce Jennings nee Bennion
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 09:21 AM

The Acme cheildh band had Mike Lindon playing accordian and his brother Pat playing banjo and a guy called Glyn.I think That I may have been at that wedding with my sister.
I remember Ken Adams he used to play his zip on his anorak and close his eyes and transcend onto a different plane.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 03:38 PM

Glyn I think was probably accordeonist Glyn Roberts.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Cliver Pownceby
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 03:50 AM

That's right - Glyn Roberts it was, lived in Ainsdale. Died, I think I'm right in saying, some years ago, though I'd like to be proved wrong. On another note, any memories of the Dance Club that Ray Cope ran at the Litherland Hotel for many years as a kind of alternative to the EFDSS ventures?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 06:55 AM

Joce - I think thats the right Ken Adams and I think you were at our wedding reception. I remember Ray Cope well as I worked for the AA at the time and his VW camper broke down in Runcorn and we had to tow him back to Liverpool as he was due to call at a ceilidh that evening.
What clubs are there still in the Liverpool area as we may be around there later this year. We know about the Bothy of course. We also went to a club at the Sawn in Aughton some years ago and also the Ship at Haskayne. Either still going.
Someone has just told me that the Swan closed down and is now a restauraunt?

Keep the memories comming
Pete

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Barbara Snape
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 03:45 PM

Oh I am loving this! I'm now up to 1975 in my old diary search.
We used to go to The Travellin Peoples club in Crosby on a Friday, then to Brians flat afterwards to eat scones ( we used to hide them in our guitar cases when he wasn't looking, cos they weren't very good). Oily Joes was Nellie's new pub when she left the Customs house in November 73. We went to the Mons folk club sometimes it was run by the Folkways. John and I visited The Brunswick in Crewe in 74, was that Derek's club ? I also have mention of the 2 plus 1 Centre club which was on Sundays and the Clubship Landfall on Saturdays. In 1975 The Spinners moved to The Triton on Paradise Street, and it was never the same.
Can someone tell me if it's true that when Paddy Doody got back from New Zealand he gave the song Davy Lowston to Martin Carthy or did I dream that ?
Also around this time there was a session at the Cleveland on Thursdays Stan Francis had something to do with that. Not forgetting the Crack on Wednesdays Silly Wizzard often came when they lived in Liverpool. The lovely Martin Dunn moved to Liverpool from Northumberland around this time. He now lives near Bacup and is a keen Nutter.
I also have some old photos including one of The Jack Ketch Band with the Ketchelettes at a Christmas do 1977 (I think).

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:06 PM

Barbara, I have a recording of that Jack Ketch Band bash - well at least the 'punk' section of the show when, amongst others, we did revved up versions of Dido Bendigo,(featured a Mick Rimmer bass solo which was a straight steal from Black Sabbath's 'Black Night') and Jolly Waggoners. People walked out in disgust if you remember?
Mick Rimmer's Dad recorded us from the side of the stage. The venue was Kingston House (The Mission To Seamen) at the bottom of James Street. Somewhere I've still got the ripped T-shirt on which I'd daubed "Stab Poodles."
What were we thinking?
The rest of the night was straight English country dance music!!!! - and the world would say, the better for it!!!!!!
PS - bring the photo on Saturday (he said cryptically)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:32 PM

It's a pity there isn't the facility to post photos here. I've trawled through Youtube but can't find many Liverpool related video clips. Someone out there please download some Liverpool historical video folk stuff to Youtube. Btw, there are some clips of Shay Black on Youtube. Talking of Shay, I remember going to some social gathering at Shay's place (when he lived in a ground floor flat in a big house which backed on to Princes Park ). Here is a recent Youtube clip of Tony Gibbons and Phil Hare at the Bothy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_6Ru8-ePpc

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:00 PM

Here's a "blue clicky" link to the Youtube video.

Tony Gibbons at Bothy Youtube

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:21 PM

I remember going to Ray's dance club in Litherland regularly, I think The Acme started up around that time as a scratch band for the dance club. Funnily enough I was chewing the fat about those days with Mike Lindon at Whitby a couple fo weeks ago.
Barbara sorry I didn't get much time for a chat at Whitby, always passing in opposite directions.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:45 PM

Barbara - yes, the Crewe club was at The Brunswick. Give me the date, I'll tell you the guest!
The Travelling people - wasn't their club more towards Hightown or Formby, rather than Crosby, or perhaps they moved into Crosby after I'd moved?
Re Davy Lowston - there's no indication in the sleeve notes of the Byker Hill LP of where he learnt it.

Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 04:58 AM

"I remember another Wallasey-ish group, three blokes, but have no memory of what they were called - good bit of harmony singing and quite funny. Seem to remember a big bloke with red hair......."

That would more than likely be Lol Rowbottom and his group was called "the Wallasey Wreckers."
As Aye
Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 09:27 AM

Scouse, The Wallaseyish group was actually a quartet and they were just called the Wreckers. Their club used to mee on a Wednesday night in the Wellington pub in Liscard.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 10:34 AM

I first time I heard "The Streets of London", it was performed by The Foggy Duo at The Travelling People's folk club in a church hall in Freshfield ( 1969?). I was so taken with the song, that I asked the duo if they could repeat the song in their second set. They refused, saying that it wouldn't be fair to the audience to repeat a number! Very strange, I thought.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 10:57 AM

Tunesmith, that club was called 'The Wheelhouse' and the hall was in Timms Lane - I think the church was/is St.Anne's. The Travelling People were the Resis and I saw the Johnstons there in I guess, 1970/1. When I launched my music 'career' in an early '60s Beat group (no bands then! - that was Glenn Miller) we HAD to repeat our material - simply didn't know enough songs. No-one minded!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,danensis
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 08:26 AM

I've really enjoyed reading this thread. My girlfriend Sue (later my wife) moved to Liverpool in 1971 but as I was working in Northampton I had to hitch to Liverpool on a Friday evening - hopefully in time to get to Atlantic House.

Ww also used to go to the Dolphin which was on a Sunday night, but I had to leave early to catch the last train darn sarf. If there was a particularly good act on I would stay until the end and catch the milk train in the morning.

Sue was in a group with a chap who was a technician at the art college, but I never got to see them perform, as they only seemed to have gigs during the week.

I also remember a Polytechnic club somewhere off Tithebarn street, the entrance was across a bomb site and in through a fire exit!

I don't know if it was the Dolphin that kept moving about, but I remember a club in a fairly modern hotel just opposite Lime Street station, and another in the horrible glass and steel edifice in Canning Place.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 09:15 AM

I recall the Dolphin Canning Place'glass-and-steel' horror as being a Thursday night with Bernie Davis' involvement, blow-up seagull et al. That land is now part of the revamped ghastly glass-and-steel horror called Liverpool One.
The modern hotel housed the "2+1" Club which Barbara refers to in a previous post.
The Poly's 'Commerce Bar' is the place you're thinking of on Tithebarn Street - happy nights with Silly Wizard there, when they were part of the Liverpool scene. I remember a stage show of some sort at the Everyman which involved Johnny Cunningham being winched up to the flyspace by his feet, still playing his fiddle! John was literally up for anything those days - good company, always ready for a chat and a beer. He, and the band are much-missed and if anyone deserves a boxed it's them - tied up in the (sh-hh, don't mention it) saga of Celtic Music I suppose?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:57 AM

refresh!!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:33 PM

"I remember another Wallasey-ish group, three blokes, but have no memory of what they were called - good bit of harmony singing and quite funny. Seem to remember a big bloke with red hair......."

That would more than likely be Lol Rowbottom and his group was called "the Wallasey Wreckers."
As Aye
Phil.

Thanks Phil, Lol does ring a bell I seem to remember he was pretty funny also

Les in Peru

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: danensis
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 03:00 PM

Just been reading a thread on YoLiverpool about St John's Centre, where it mentions The Star & Garter, Top Rank Suite (later Romeo & Juliets and Rotters), Penny Farthing, Quinns (formerly the Sportsman), Cunarder, Moonstone (later Milo's) and St. Johns Tavern. I think the folk club I went to might have been in the Penny Farthing, the name seems to ring a bell (but then the Sportsman does as well).

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 03:52 PM

I think it was in The Leesiders in Birkinhead that I heard The Watersons for the first time. Late 1965 I would guess. Anyone else able to confirm that?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:06 PM

A gang of us ran the Pennyfarthing FC in Ellesmere Port 69 to 72. $0 aniversary coming up.

But I remember a pub called the Pennyfarthing in Liverpool. I seem to remember it hard a large bronze Pennyfarthing outside

L in P

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:29 PM

I recall seeing Fairport at the Top Rank suite in St. Johns about the time of the 'Rosie album.' "Sloth" went on forever!!!! Good gig though.
The Penny Farthing was a Higsons new-build pub which had flashing neon spokes on the bike's large wheel, which formed the sign. Next to Royal Court - it's still there but its erm, charm has faded somewhat!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:56 PM

I just wanted to say what a fantastic time I had with you all last night. Mucho love to Mr J Howson and Katie for letting us share his birthday, for bringing everyone together, and for letting hangers-on such as myself enjoy the lovely music and legacy shared by you all!!!


I even got my piccie taken with Sinbad from Brookie in the Everyman Bar. Liverpool is the friendliest city I have EVER visited - best of luck to all who sail in her!

Jx

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 03:43 AM

Delighted to hear that a great bash was had by all. Once again John, sorry we couldnt make it. And you're right of course, after Dublin, Liverpool is the friendliest city. But, I would say that wouldnt I!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 05:06 AM

I'm sorry, too, that I couldn't make it, but £73.40 for a day trip to Liverpool was more than I could manage at the moment(well, I thought it was daylight robbery actually!). Glad you had a good time.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 11:26 AM

Still no news as to Lennie Cruickshank - would like to find out what he is up to. Any takers??

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:01 PM

BigJ - is that John Kaneen? Pity you weren't able to make - was hoping to catch up!
another time.
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 06:30 AM

Can anyone remember the name of the "Folk Club." along Breck Road in Wallasey by the Bowling Greens, I saw Nic Jones there many years ago and he was such a God dam revelation!! or the name of the club that was half way up Grove Road also in Wallasey which was held on Sunday nights, saw many legends there I.E. Vin Garbutt,Derek Brimstone,Tom and Smiley (I think),Pete Stanley and Wizz Jones to name a few.Also who ran it, I'm sure it was the "Wreckers" before they moved.
As Aye,
Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 07:53 AM

Derek,
Ahah, he said, whipping off his false moustache, 'tis I!
I was only following this thread to see what became of me.
John

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Barbara Snape
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 03:30 PM

Yes John's party was just wonderfull.
However back to the past. Derek we went to the Brunswick on 6th January 1974.

Have I mentioned the Mons folk club ? it was run by the Folkways.

Then there was the Coronation in Southport on Fridays. Also the Punch Bowl in Sefton on Wednesdays.
In 1977 we used to go to The Belvedere on Tuesdays and the Coyne brothers used to go there alot.

Then in November 1976 the start of the Liverpool folk club in Gregsons Well on Thursdays. The residents were John Howson, Me, Frank Macoll, Gron Humphreys, Seoda Ceol ( spelling probably wrong), and Tony Gibbons too I think. Isn't that were FOM ( Folk on Merseyside started ?). We used to organise Saturday afternoon concerts and pic nics at places like Croxteth Hall and the Bluecoat Chambers.

Another thing what about those magazines we used to buy called Local Folk? I have them going back to November 1971. They were published by Lew Baxter and Roy Webster, and were full of interesting articles and reviews as well as club news and whats on.

Cor! this could be just the beginning!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 04:52 PM

I recall going to see Barbara Dickson in maybe 1973? at Melling Folk Club at the Horse And Jockey. Monday night I think. No idea who ran it or how long it lasted. Barbara was on a roll at that time but I remember thinking "now why don't they have a stage?" She just sang on carpet level from a bay window area and I thought she deserved better!!!!!! Well she's sure had her fair share of stages since!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 06:55 PM

well Barbara, I looked it up ... Mike Harding was the guest ... I told you i remembered the room being quite full!
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 05:43 AM

Talk about 'All our yesterdays',
Barbara, thanks for the Coronation reminder, I was in charge of the bookings for about 12 mths.
Clive, I remember that night with Barbara Dickson well. I think we went mob handed from the Bothy. I've got a cassette somewhere I recorded that night. Barbara Dickson was sat across the table from me & I got Pete Rimmer singing 'Cat on an old tin roof' with Barbara putting in some great hamonies.
I also remember seeing Mke Harding at the Mons, he had this little concertina which he was fooling around with by holding it up to his nose and letting it flop in an approximation of a rude appendige. He asked 'What's that'? and Tony Wilson let fly with F*** nose. The place was in uproar & Mike cracked up.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:05 AM

I remember seeing Barbera Dixon at the Mitre in Dale st. Somewhere we still have a tape of that night. I particularly recall her singing an Alan Taylor song "The morning lies heavy". At that time I think she was a close friend of Willy Russel and sang occasionaly at the Top Lock Club in Runcorn which was run by (I think) The Steam Whistle Collection"

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 06:06 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 09:59 AM

What became of Brian Jaques who used to sing with a guy called Pete Hyams who I knew and a girl called ??
I know he wrote a couple of books but have not heard of him for years.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 11:02 AM

banjoman: Visit the Amazon.co.uk site and type in "Brian Jacques".

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 06:03 PM

wasn't Brian Jacques in a group called the Fishermen , or Liverpool Fishermen? From memory, a sort of Liverpool Dubliners - lively, raucous singing group? A bit like The Beggarmen, who I came across when I moved to Manchester, except the Beggarmen were all Irish, or Irish second generation.
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Pete Rimmer
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 05:21 AM

The Liverpool Fishermens Album sells for big money now .

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 06:02 AM

Hi Pete,
Didn't he have a group called 'Brigantine'?
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 07:28 AM

Brigantine - yes that was the name of the group. I remember the guy he sang with was our insurance man who collected every week. Name was either Pete or Tony Hyams. My Brother Mike used to give him Guitar lessons. Some of you may remember Mike who died earlier this year. He was a frequenter of the Everyman and tried to pass himself off as an Irish Gypsy (with some success) He was an exceptional guitar player and in better times made a name as a flamenco player.
Anyway, back to the thread- Is Pete McGovern still about? I have found several references to him on a number of web sites. He was the first person I heard singing The hole in the elephant's bottom which I pinched and still sing down here in Hampshire.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 09:23 AM

While we're asking about if people are still about. What about Tony Murphy. Can anyone enlighten me?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Barbara Snape
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 02:44 PM

The news I have on Brian Jacques is that he is a very famous childrens author. I work in education and often come upon his name he has written a series of books about animals and is really big in America. The lady he used to sing with is called Liz and she had a strong voice, they used to sing a song called the evacuee.

In February 1971 the club dates in local folk were as follows:-
The Bothy-Blundell Arms, Southport
Pez Esparda-Temple st,Liverpool
Pinehurst-Townend Lane
Powder Keg-Nelson Hotel, Neston
Littlefolk-Old Parkonians Rugby club, Birkenhead
Argonaut Folk Club- Grange Rd West, Birkenhead
Calico-Park Hotel, Wigan
J & B,s-Domestic Mission, Mill St, Liverpool
Liverpool Folk Club-Mitre, Dale Street
Hope and Anchor- Prescott
County Folk- Ship Inn, Haskayne
Rhonas club-New Ferry
Atlantic House, Hardman Street, Liverpool
Hainaut- Mons Hotel, Queens Drive, Bootle.
Cor! There are more in the following month. The articles, reviews and news on all the different groups and clubs really brings memories back. Oh, and Lenny Cruckshank and Joe Rooney ran a club at The Albany on Smithdown Rd, called Black and Tan. It was 20p to get in.

I,m sorry I don,t know what happened to Tony Murphy or Pete MaCovern but I,d like to know

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 05:20 PM

Pete McGovern died 1 April 2006. Not heard of Tony for many years now.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:09 AM

Just back from a few days in mid-Wales and pleased to see this is still going strong. Tony Murphy, I think, still lives out Huyton way. I used to go to a club at the Flying Picket in Hardman Street a few years back and Tony was a somewhat vocal resident in all senses of the word.
Things had a left wing bias, Dave Cox was the Organiser, they had a Bank account with my old employer which went the way of all things! -blowed if I can remember the club's name. The People's Folk Club? Summat like that.
There was an annual one-day Festival that they organised and I MC'd at - that went fine for a year or two. Recall seeing Janet Russell and Jim Woodland and Roy Bailey on the bill - well, you would, wouldn't you!?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 06:53 AM

Sad to hear about Pete McGovern. Good to know that Tony Murphy is still about. I think he wrote "The Orange and the Green" which the spinners recorded.
The club I recall in Bold st was at the Odd Spot and was run by a group called Sink Folk who guested at the Wyndham in Bootle on a couple of occasions.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 08:15 AM

One of my old scrapbooks - (I know, I know, Derek, they'll be lodged at CS House one day if you want 'em!) tells me that the Club at the Picket was called the New Levellers. I'll try and find out a bit more news of Tony Murphy. Liverpool Irish Festival is coming up soon and old faces tend to emerge from the woodwork for that!
The Odd Spot in Bold Street was quite a 'Beat' venue in its day. I can tell you that the Beatles played there on 29th March and 11th August 1962!!!!!!!!!! Venue opened 9th December 1961.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 12:52 PM

Liverpool Irish Festival coming up! Now there's a well kept secret, perticularly over this side of the Irish Sea. Shh!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Joyce Jennings ne Bennion
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 02:15 PM

Brian Jaques wrote a series of childrens books about armies of rats. The Redwall series.My son loved them and so did I.Brian said he got the idea for Redwall from sitting in Stanly Park.They are well written and have exciting stories and are highly regarded in childrens literature.I think that they may have been made into a television series as well.In fact i have some of the books in my house.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: ronnie milsap
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 02:35 AM

well well

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:30 AM

Can you give the dates for the Liverpool Irish Festival - miay try and make it there from these southern lowlands

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:36 AM

Friday 16th of October to the 1st of November
Liverpool Irish Festival
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:43 AM

Banjoman it's from 16th October - 1st November and the site is www.liverpoolirishfestival.com. Exactly what some of the headliners are doing in there is open to conjecture! Sponsored by Guinness so I guess they want some crowd-pullers for their money, and I'm not being cynical - just realistic.I was on the Committee of the first one and compared to that caper, it's surely nothing less than professional now.
The sessions and the non-music fringe should be as good as ever.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,John Howson
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 06:28 PM

Yes my do in the Everyman Bistro wasn't at all bad.

Good to see some of the old Liverpool crew: Barbara Bennion (now Snape) Mary Edwards (now Hollins) Mary Carney (now Hastings) Fergie and Sylkie Fergison, Curley Pete, Annie (Russell) & Andy Segroate, Bernie & Vera Davis, Clive & Jean Pownesby, Bruce & Dot Scott, Hughie & Chrissie Jones and Mick Groves and not forgetting Stan Ambrose.

It was all made possible by the wonderful Paddy Byrne (the owner) who I suppose I first met when I was about seventeen in the company of Tony Wilson.

Does anybody remember the Lancashire night we had in the Bistro: Mike Harding, Gary & Vera, Harry Boardman, black pudding and Lancashire Cheese! Lol

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 06:50 PM

I remember that. Great night.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:54 AM

Poring over the Tony Wilson (Molyneux) archive again, in amongst the various letters of confirmation and regret ("Martin already has bookings for all three of the dates you gave us, so will not be able to be with you." - signed, Dorothy Carthy) is a little touch on the times from as recently as March 1974,in a letter from Mick Groves.
reads - "Dear Tony, Just to confirm the Bothyfolk for next Monday, 18th to introduce Sean Cannon and do 2 x half hour spots, for £15."
Presumably The Spinners had their own gig and were asking the lads to dep. Wonder how much Sean got?
Barbara, I bet you were at that evening at Gregsons Well?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Noreen
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:48 AM

Who was Dorothy?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:52 AM

Carty's first wife?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:10 AM

Sorry Carthy's

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: silkie UK
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 11:58 AM

Reading all these messages makes me feel 17 all over again, would that looking 17 was so easy. Many thanks John for inviting us to your Birthday Bash it was a great night. So many people I could remember and did and many I should have remembered and didn't !!

A number of posts mention Ted Owens, a few years back Brian and I tried to contact him, we drew a blank after he left YHA., so Ted if you're a secret "mudcatter" please get in touch.

A message for Rod Davies: If you keep the photo of me serving in the Moose out of circulation I'll keep the one I have of the very young Bluegrass Ramblers under wraps. Wiilie Russell also sent me a photo of a session at the Moose. The only suitable caption I can think of for it is " does your mother know you're out? " everyone looks impossibly young.

Lots of Posts about Bernie and the Parrot, amongst a million memories I have an abiding one of "Nellies" football team playing in a snow storm somewhere on the Wirral, after abandoning the game the whole team and it's supporters turned up en masse at John Gothards sisters house, the poor woman unfortunately lived nearby, She borrowed chairs,cups and mugs from her neighbours and gave us all succour until we could leave for a session which I think was in the "Travellers Rest". Harry Boardman was booked for the evening but because of the snow he couldn't make it so Bernie (with parrot) gave the performance of his life. That was a night to remember and one where I really did think dying laughing was a distinct possibilty.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:30 PM

Dorothy = the Mrs Martin Carthy of those mid-'60s times. btw, saw the Waterson Family last night at Phil. There were 9 of 'em, inc. Lal's daughter Marie and son Olly plus Mike's two daughters. A mighty sound, a good house and lotsa people ahem, 'our' age I hadn't seen in a while.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:38 PM

That football match was against The Pennyfarthing team from the folk club that met at the Traveller's Rest, Little Sutton. Bernies did a classic rendition of "This Old hat that I've go on" and "The Four Poster Bed". I thought Harry was there but I get confused.

We celebrate 40 years since it began, this November at The Boat Museum

Cheers

Les Jones

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: silkie UK
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:51 PM

No Les your're not confused Harry did turn up but very late due to the snow and after Bernie had given his barnstorming performance.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:54 PM

Thanks silkie, the brain cell still functions

Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: silkie UK
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 02:03 PM

Looking at all the posts here there's not a lot wrong with anyones brain cells, congratulations on 40 fab years and here's to the next 40 !! Silkie.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 02:08 PM

Well, The Pennyfarthing didn't last very long but a string of related clubs lasted until around '82

Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: silkie UK
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 02:26 PM

Old folk clubs never die they just find another pub and another name...

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 02:46 PM

true enough,

The Beech, Chorlton, Manchester, First and Third Wednesdays

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: silkie UK
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:12 PM

From folk clubs to coffee shops what about the Masque, the only coffee shop where you could pay to drink coffee and then stay late and help polish the floor. I did this once and arrived home at 3am. my mothers comment was that maybe I could stay home just one night and polish ours.
Anyone else remember the fury of the customers waiting in the queue as we swanned past them up the stairs and Paddy always let us in first.
coffee at 9d a cup and an eccles cake if you were celebrating. Oh happy days !!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Good Soldier Schweik
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:55 PM

Martin Carthys mother was also called Dorothy.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 11:03 AM

Are any members of Old Rope still about or performing. I know that Ted Barwise passed away some years ago but haven't heard from Ken Dunlop or Keith Price for ages.
Was there a group of Post Office workers who called themselves Penny Black and practiced at the main post Office. One of the group was called Steve and he played a mandolin (Mainly the tune from Magis Roundabout. He came to a party in London with us (Myself & Maggie ) and shared the back seat of my Triumph Herald with a girl called Diane Clough.

Keep the memories coming

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 11:20 AM

Keith can be found at the Everyman, or the Bothy clubs on a fairly regular basis, sometimes sitting in with bands playing Irish pubs or at sessions. He keeps busy and retains that laconic wit he always had. Even he hasn't heard from Ken in ages though Kenny's still living in Liverpool but Pricey says he hasn't picked up his fiddle in years.
Penny Black? - wasn't Doug Mason from Birkenhead involved in that one?
Ah,hh Triumph Heralds - ours was E reg. (1967?) and racing green!!!!!
Stalled going up Sutton Bank on way to Whitby Fest. handbrake failed and the old thing was never the same - nor were my nerves as we slowly rolled backwards down that 1 in 3!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Passive Pancreas
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 11:32 AM

fantastic!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 04:54 PM

Erm, the whole thread last poster, or my Triumph Herald tale? 'Fantastic' wouldn't be my keyword as we wrestled with the wheel and Malcolm Eyres leapt over from the back seat to lend a hand. We have never gone up that gradient since, preferring the Byland route with all the caravans!
I digress, but none of us is perfect.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 04:06 AM

Does anybody know how I can contact Bernie Davies?

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 04:13 AM

Is this the Bernies Davis who played melodeon and sang in the 60's?

Bernie Davis?


L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 04:21 AM

Well, clearly not as the link doesn't work

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 04:28 AM

Bernie Davis is living on the Wirral and still (I think) plays with Andy Kenna. Unfortunately I don't have his address, but I'll ask around and see if anybody else has it.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 04:58 AM

that link doesn't work. I have his email etc. send me an email eds.editor @ efdss.org
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 10:14 AM

Bernie Davis was one of the funniest people on the folk scene around that time.- I remember him guesting at the Pinehurst for Old Rope and singing shanties while his inflatable pigeon was flown around the room. I think the song was Rolling Home.
Clive - Give my (and Maggies ) regards to Pricey and remind him of when we were neighbours in Skem, and my role as Door Keeper for the Ols Rope club in a pub in Breck Road.
I still have the Windsor Zither banjo hich he swapped for an old melodeon although I have rebuilt it an reired the cracks he put in it when he threw it on the floor because it went out of tune during a song

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 04:22 PM

If you use Les' link and wait a few seconds you will redirected to the website of the Southport Visitor. Type Bernie Davis into the site search box and indeed it is the very same Bernie singing on a video clip.
I was wondering when he was going to show his face on this thread :)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: JustBrowsing
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 06:33 PM

I manage a site related to Brian Jacques and his books, Redwall.

Some might appreciate these links:

http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Swallow_the_Anchor
http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/A_Gig_wid_Brig
http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/The_Mushroom_Folk_Sampler_LP
http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/The_Liverpool_Fishermen

If anyone has any historical documents, photos, videos, etc related to Jacques at this time please feel free to contact me, my e-mail address is here: http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Contact_Us

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 05:48 AM

The memories keep flooding back. Maggie reminded me that Bernie Davis & John Howson were a duo of some sort and sang as "Oglet" a name I think they got from a stretch of the Mersey near the airport known as Oglet Banks.
Last saw Brian Jaques with Liz and Pete McGovern at St Johns School in Skelmersdale just before we left for the south in 1979.
When we lived in Skem there was a Folk Club run by the local council at the Knowle Brow Pub. They had plenty of money and were able to book some great guests. I recall seeing Tony Rose, Mike Harding and Bernard Wrigley, complete with bass concertina, there (not on the same night) and doing a couple of songs ourselves.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 07:18 AM

Pity if this thread runs out of steam as I am sure ther are loads more people and memories - Keep em comming
Pete & Maggie

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 08:14 AM

Does anyone out there remember a couple of young women that used to be very visible on the Liverpool Folk scene around 1980? They went everywhere together and I think they were both dentists or dental students. I associate them mainly with the Cross Keys club. I think one - the dark one - was called Jill. They both used to do floor spots.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 09:36 AM

I've just - I think - dragged out the name of the other young woman form the deep recesses of my failing memory: Judith.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 11:44 AM

Could Judith have been Judith Cummins? I knew her and her Mother. Guitar player. She came along to the Bothy and I'm sure she was involved in something medical. I remember her with her then boyfriend - Andrew something, who went on to playing keyboards with a cabaret/lounge band -'Panache' or summat.
If it's the same gal, she married and now lives in South Africa.

Jill? - Gill, then Bimson - married one of the Coyne lads, Terry or Eamon but is no longer Mrs Coyne. Good singer. Of course, I could be entirely wrong here - with eiher woman!!!!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Joyce Jennings ne Bennion
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 01:33 PM

Was she called Jane ? I rememeber a dentist marrying Eamon Coyne. Mick's wife, is/was, irish and called Miriam.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Frank Sellors
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:00 PM

Yes, that's got to be Gill and Judith. We once had a sort of musical trio going but could ever agree on the choice of material, the keys, or the arrangements. Gill used to introduce me as the person who taught her to play the banjo, but I'm not sure that's true. Likewise, Pete Rimmer used to intoduce me as his dad (which isn't true)or the chap who taught him to play the guitar (which, again isn't true)!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:50 PM

Jill was married to Terry Coyne, Mick, whos not too well at the moment, is married to Miriam and Eamon is married to an American lady called Sue.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Frank Sellors
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 03:07 PM

Jill (of Jill and Judith)was married to Eamon. Does anyone out there know what Jill is up to these days. I heard somewhere that she'd gone walkabout with a banjo player - sounds rather folkie and bohemian.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 04:00 PM

Good to have Mr Sellors on this thread! A fount of knowledge - just ask him anything about the days of yore, he's bound to know!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Frank Sellors
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 04:19 AM

I've been reading through this thread and, as previous poster commented, it's a shame that there aren't any photos to go with all these reminiscences. What is needed is a dedicated website where photos, reminiscences and audio files could be posted.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 06:46 AM

Frank - how about setting one up. There's no doubt that there is a wealth of history about the folk movement in this thread alone.
Who was the guy who published a Folk News magazine around that time. I think he worked in a car showroom on prescott rd. I remember causing a stir when he published my article on why the Mitre closed. Tony Wilson had a go at me at Whitby about it when I stood by what I had said-The Mitre had grown complacement and we never knew from one week to the next which of the regular presenters was going to be there. It was run by John Howson, Bernie Davis & Tony Wilson at the time. I think Tony had become more interested in the Bothy at Southport.
Why did he change his name? Was it to avoid confusion with the,at least, seven other Tony Wilsons that I know of on the folk scene

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 07:25 AM

Tony changed monikers to give son Nicholas, the same name as his mother I think!!!! When born, there was no way Tony could deny parentship - flaming red hair, same features - all he needed was a beard! Pat came back from abroad and as in the best of ballads placed the young lad in Wilson's arms and said, amongst other things I'd guess, "he's yours." They were happy as a family unit for some years.
Wasn't Folk News realised by Roy Webster (husband of Sue - former member of Jack Ketch Band) and Lew Baxter? Lew was what would now be called a mover and shaker.
The Bothy absorbed Tony for a good while, until CAMRA took over. By that time, in the mid-'70s the Club was doing fine with a strong Resident panel whereas CAMRA was a fledging organisation which could, Tony felt, probably rightly, use his energies to better effect. What energies too! He is much missed.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 05:51 AM

Thanks for the info on Tony Wilson - I first knew. him when he was teacjing in St. Philomenas School in Sparrowhall Rd and it was because of him selling tickets to a folk concert to one of my nephews at the school that we really became involved in the scene at that time. You will of course remember his "Captaining" the Lancashire contingent at Whitby over several years.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 04:56 PM

I remember the Wars Of The Roses well, Banjoman. Tony's main claim to fame on that score was, I think, swallowing a twiddleywink in the "first to get a tiddler into a pint of beer" contest! Tony won and in celebration downed his pint in one, forgetting to take the bit of plastic out first. He came to no harm.
Yard Of Ale drinking, race up Abbey steps, and beach cricket umpired by Mike Harding all spring to mind, in what were surely happy times, though the rivally could get quite intense. The Liverpool/Lancs contingent used the 'Elsinore' as its base whilst the Yorkshire crowd (captain - Bob Spray) drank in the 'Star.'
Well there was nothing else to do - we had to make our own fun. The Spa evening concert, and Ceilidh, dance displays and singarounds in the Drill Hall with featured guests were all you got for your weekly ticket money. Pubs closed in the afternoon and at 10.30PM.
We're positively spoilt at Festivals now by comparison. Ah, but are we any happier? Discuss!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Grog
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 05:36 PM

Surprised not to see more mention of the Top Locks Club at the Waterloo in Runcorn. Run by John Kaneen,Willie Russell and Jim Peden. Many a happy Sunday night spent there in the 70's. Barbara Dickson, Archie Fisher, Bert Lloyd (I even think that somewhere I've still got the cassette I recorded that night),Carthy, Nic Jones and many others that the years and too many pints of Greenalls have consigned to the memory bank that's now firmly locked. However, I still cringe at the thought of some of my floor spots there.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 05:59 PM

Tony and the tiddleywink: I remember that happening - 1971 - I know because I only went to Whitby once in the 70s and that was it. He was so jubilant that he'd got the tiddleywink in the pint ... it's not as easy as it looks! That was also the year when someone dropped a contact lens in the road late one night. Amazingly, Mike Harding found it ... we said it was because he was closer to the ground than most people! In fact, I got to Whitby that year thanks to Mike. I hitched from manchester, and got as far as York when he stopped to give me a lift. He had a VW beetle, plus wife, 2 children, sister in law and Paul Graney .. then me as well. How did we all get in? Perhaps I've counted too many people.... we couldn't ALL have got in.
Back to Tony Wilson - he was also a train fanatic. One Sunday evening at the Brunswick pub in Crewe when the folk club was upstairs, Tony was standing in the bar ... been on some railway trip (this WAS Crewe...) and had called in for a drink before going home to Liverpool. Must have been mid-ish 70s.
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 05:59 AM

How long can this thread go on - We went to the Top Lock Club on many occasions and saw some great guests there. Willy Russel agreed to open the Pinehurst Club for Old Rope and was about that time I think beginning to write plays.
How many remember the Clubship Landfall? Maggie had her Hen Night there and it was a loss to the character of the city when it went. I think it was about to sink in the end?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 06:20 AM


Can anyone give me the latest news on how Mick is?? Stuck over here in dear "Clogland as I am.. I don't get to hear a lot of news. I met Mick up at the Tonder Festival more than once when he came along with Ron Kavana. What a Craic those weekends where.
As Aye,
Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 09:17 AM

Clive Pownceby. "Pubs closed in the afternoon and at 10.30PM."

That didn't stop Pete Rowley getting stoned out of his skull one year, to the extent that he couldn't remember where his lodgings were, and could barely stand upright. We steered him all over Whitby, not an easy task with someone the size of Pete, while he kept shouting, "I'll fall in the harbour".

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Joyce Jennings ne Bennion
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 12:54 PM

I remember the club ship landfall. Any one remember Gordon's club, next door to the Customs House? We went there on a Saturday after the sing around at the Customs House and came out just as dawn was breaking. Some right dodgey people in there. The other club was up by Ye Olde Cracke. Forgotten what it was called.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 05:57 PM

keep the stories coming ... then Clive can edit them all into a book!
Good to see an enthusiastic audience at the Phil - side room, not the main hall - for Jackie oates on Saturday.
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Liberty Boy
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 02:13 AM

I was talking to Ron Kavanagh at the weekend and he has been to see Mick and says he's improving!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 07:46 AM

I remember seeing Southport Swords at Whitby when they had forgotten to bring their swords and persuaded a local DIY shop to "Loan" some rolls of wallpaper which they used. Suffice to say that the car park they danced on was knee deep in paper by the end.
Does anyone remember Rev. K. Loveless refusing to begin his workshop on Carols until I and several others had extinguished our fags.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 08:13 AM

I remember Rev, KL going on at some length in one of his own workshops, at Whitby, about the lack of musicianship amongst those of us who enjoyed singing folk songs. One of the audience was Willy Scott, the Border Shepherd, who finally given a chance sang a parody of The Bonny Bonny Banks of Loch Lommond.

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 10:24 AM

Ah, dear Whitby memories of the Southport Swords.
The famous wallpaper dance, which Mr Sharp wisely dismissed 70 years earlier as "not of the Folk" took place after an afternoon drinking bout in the Elsinore, and was performed in the adjacent, quiet Silver Street on a garage forecourt. Camerons Strongarm had been taken in quantity - as I mentioned in an earlier post, pubs and off-licences closed at 2.30PM and pint-downing had to be done in fierce fashion over a short timespan. It's what we know now as binge drinking and has never been exclusively the preserve of the 14 year old.
The Rev. Ken was always contentious - he revelled in it and liked to provoke controversy. In one workshop, where he was telling us categorically that no-one should ever attempt to sing in public until they had studied and practised for years at the feet of the great and good, Frank McCall, probably with a cig, stood up and accused him of talking crap! "And who are you," said Ken. Frank, standing on a "earlier-you-get-up-the-better-you'll-become" ticket and incandescent with fury, almost spat out "Francis Albert McCall, and you've been talking crap!" I don't think us young 'uns were supposed to have such disrespect for EFDSS stalwarts especially when they were Rural Dean Of Hackney. There was a collective gasp and then silence! Fortunately no more was said on that topic and we moved on to talking about Mr Kimber's concertina!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 10:31 AM

The Rev was amongst those who thought "The Morris" should only be danced by seriously consenting "Men" and sometimes in private.

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 01:12 PM

I remember a story that Fred Jordan and Ken Loveless once had to share a twin room at Whitby (no doubt, the guest accommodation budget was tight!). If I remember correctly, Fred was a bit disconcerted by Kenneth's habit of walking round the bedroom naked ... Kenneth's comments on Fred are not recorded...
now, back to Liverpool?
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Joyce Jennings ne Bennion
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 02:41 PM

I was sitting next to Frank mcCall in that workshop and recall that a quiet amount of laughter went around the room like a mexican wave. Good old Frank, he was always honest and never afraid to speak his mind. Also one of the finest folk singers I have ever heard. He always sang from the heart and had more emotion in his little finger than Ken Loveless had in his whole body.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 04:27 PM

He always sang from the heart and had more emotion in his little finger than Ken Loveless had in his whole body.

True, true

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 05:11 PM

Hey Liberty Boy,Thanks for that.Ron's a good mate of mine as well. Love the fella so I do. Love to him and Trudy his lovely lady.
As Aye,
Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 11:40 AM

Re Frank McCall - I agree with the sentiments expressed and remember him mainly as part of The Wakes with John Kelly, and Bernie Davies asking him at one club "Frank are you A Wake" to which Frank replied " Not while youre singing that crap"

I mentioned Clubship Landfall a while back - and remembered being on board one night when we were all asked to move to the opposite side of the ship as it was listing badly. I thought it was because I had drunk too much, but a sudden move to Port soon corrected the problem.
Does anyone remember, or have a tape of, Old Ropes one TV appearance. They did a one off with Brian Jaques and Liz. Brian interviewd the then landlady of the Custom House during the prog. Cant recall her name. No doubt someone will remind me.
Pete

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 04:30 PM

Nell Flanagan = licensee of Customs House.

The Clubship, what remains of it (a rusting hulk is too kind a term) was and maybe still is, at rest near Bramley Moore dock.

John Kelly is still gigging and remains a modest, unassuming talent
concentrating on his harmonium playing these days. Still wears tight jeans and stack heel boots! (settle down ladies!)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 05:57 AM

Thanks Clive - any info on the Old Rope TV show - perhaps Keith has a copy somewhere?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 04:45 PM

I'd like to think Pricey will be at this Sunday's Bothy Singers Night and will ask him!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 03:29 AM

Clive,

once did a charity busk with Old Rope, Barry Walmsley and Ken Chesters in Liverpool City Centre and a Mummers Play that amongst other places visited a club somewhere like Ormskirk. Best wishes to Keith if you see him

Les
Ex Bag End Folk Club Ellesmere Port

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 05:35 AM

Les - I think Maggie & I were there when this was going on. Barry used to sing in a duo with Maggie and last I heard he had gone to Newcastle although thats about 30 years ago. I sold him my Triumph Herald as I needed the money to buy an engagement ring. I thought it a bit much when he turned up at The Old Fort about a week later complaining that it had run out of petrol. He was a pretty fair guitar player tho' he abhored any instrument with steel strings. I once sold him a banjo but dont think he ever played it.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 05:36 AM

Any one know if the West Kirby Folk Club is still going. I'm comin' over for a short visit and the club use to be every Tuesday night. Anyone remember Artie Shaw???
As Aye,
Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 06:57 AM

I was looking through some old files and came across a phot of the Moon shiners who used to run a club at the Wyndham opposite Bootle Station. I know that their banjo player joined up with Hank Walters but are any of the rest of the group still about. Can' recall their names but they had a fiddle player and a guitarist.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 08:25 AM

Did the Hooters run the club in West Kirby? At the something horse?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 05:40 AM

The Black Horse, on Black Horse Hill. It's a disco type pub nowadays, with a sign outside which says "No Nudity".

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 06:43 AM

Clive, I think I am correct in saying that you used to know the members of the Southport band Rhythm 'n' Blues Incorporated ?

I saw them playing in Edinburgh in 1963 or 64 and was totally blown away. How they never made it mega I will never know.

I met Barry Womersley, the lead guitarist, a few years back at a concert in Southport, and shared a few memories and a couple of drinks with him afterwards.

Do you have any info as to what the rest of the band are up to these days ?

apologies for slight thread creep ...

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 06:59 AM

Thanks Fred, at my age I think I'll give the Black Horse a miss!!
As Aye,
Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 07:19 AM

scouse,

Consensus is there's no longer any folking about to be had in West Kirby these days.

However, if you're contemplating a visit to the Wirral, there are alternative venues.


Mondays:

Folk Session,
Farmers Arms, Hillbark Rd. Frankby, Wirral CH48 1NJ 8:30 (01516 484444)

Tuesdays:

Acoustic Night,
Saddle Club, Prenton Dell Rd. Prenton, Birkenhead, Wirral, CH43 3DB . 2nd Tue 8:45 (01516 080888)


Wallasey Session,
Little Brighton Inn, Rowson Street, Wallasey CH45 5AT 9:00 (01516 395781)



Wednesdays:

Bromborough Folk Club,
Bridge Inn, Bolton Rd. Port Sunlight, Wirral CH62 4UQ, 8:00 (01513 340759)

Mr Happy's Come All Ye:
Carlton Tavern, Hartington St, Handbridge, Chester CH4 7BN 9:00 (01244 675860)
Free Butties & Mystery Guest every week!!


Thursdays:

Magazine Folk Club
Magazine Hotel, Magazine Ln. New Brighton, Wirral CH45 1HP 8.30 (01516 373974)


Parkgate Folk Club
Boathouse, 1 The Parade, Parkgate, Wirral CH64 6RN Lst Thu 8:15. (01516 771840)

Hungry Horse Folk Club:
The Rake, Rake Lane, Little Stanney, Ellesmere Port CH2 4HS 8:00 (01516 789902)


Fridays:

Folk Ahoy:
West Cheshire Sailing Club, Coastal Drive, Wallasey, Wirral CH45 3PZ 8:30 1st Fri (01516 533619)


Pensby Folk Club:
Pensby Hotel, Ridgewood Drive, Pensby, Wirral CH61 8RA 8:15 (01516 399350)


Carlton Acoustic Jam:
Carlton Tavern, Hartington St. Handbridge, Chester CH4 7BN 2nd Fri 8:15 (01244 676688)


Sundays:

Folk at The Manor:
Old Manor Club, Withens Ln. Wallasey CH45 7NF Wirral. 8:30 (01516 781962)


Other stuff here: http://www.folkorbit.talktalk.net/


Hope this helps

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 07:20 AM

Well, no nudity! Who would go there then

Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 07:39 AM

Murray, Barry has a music shop in Wesley St Southport. After R&B Inc he had a band called Inner Sleeve who won Opportunity Knocks a couple of times. ( They also opened my shop for me at about that time). He has also been known to sit it with Mr Blundells Alms ceilidh band occasionally.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 09:02 AM

Yes gang, Les is right. Barry's still hard at it, (Apoco Music) and playing soft rock and country. Married to Connie for many years (the sister of my old friend Paul Norbury) and Connie's the author of the "Munro The Mole" children's books.
R&B Inc. were having regular reunions a few years back, at the Royal Clifton Hotel. Pete Kelly, the consumate showman, came back to resume vocal duties once and John Conroy was on drums, with Chris Holmes (Music Students, Timebox) on keyboards. Lee Curtis, members of the Undertakers & Dominoes were onstage too. Wonder why they discontinued these events?
Apart from Barry and Pete, R&B Inc had John McCaffrey on bass (My spouse Jean still fancies him!) and Mike McKay on rhythm guitar - I haven't had news of them for years. Alan Menzies the original drummer used to play with The Bootles - maybe still does and lives in Denmark.
Barry's first band was the Diplomats. He replaced George Eccles in R&B Inc. in 1963 and their 'Louie Louie' cover got to no.40 in the charts - we still have a scratchy worn-out copy.
Sorry if this has got away from a 'folk' thread - or has it? Discuss!!!!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 10:27 AM

great to read all that news, Clive.

it needs stressing again that R&B Inc were a band way ahead of their time, they were playing authentic blues long before the so-called blues boom, and playing it with a virtuosity which was imo never approached by any other band of the sixties (and I did see a lot of Liverpool groups, major and minor). Barry in particular was unbelievably inventive and tasteful, absolutely spellbinding both on slow and up-tempo numbers, and all played on a crappy old Hofner with the action half an inch off the fretboard. Alan Menzies was a phenomenal drummer, a bit like Keith Moon on speed.

if you, or Les, bump into Barry, do say hi to him from me, I was the drunken Scotsman who came to Southport for the concert and stayed in his friend's hotel (whose name, sadly I can't remember) where everybody gathered afterwards. This would have been 2004 or 2005, and the concert was in the town hall.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Frank Sellors
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 12:03 PM

Murray: Barry has fond memories of living in Edinburgh and R&BsIncs residency at The Place. He has some great stories to tell of the acts that he backed including blues greats Memphis("Every Day I have the Blues")Slim and Sonny Boy Williamson.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 01:59 PM

I wonderif we are all talking about the same Barry Walmsley who was a biology teacher in Birkenhead at the time we knew him. No way could I see him playing soft rock or R & B

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 07:36 PM

No different one. Southport lad. By the way just been chatting to Keith Price at the Bothy this evening.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 07:40 PM

I do apologise again for hijacking the thread, but just wanted to echo the fond memories expressed by Frank above of the Place, in Victoria Street Edinburgh , where R & B Inc played in the early sixties.

Intimate wasn't the word, I remember listening to Memphis Slim (with R &B Inc backing him) leaning against the back of his piano with my elbows on the lid. Ditto for Champion Jack Dupree who played the following week.

Barry might be able to confirm or not, but one of my other memories of the Place (possibly fallacious) is that the Gents urinals consisted literally of a bank of soil with a rough hewn channel at the base, no plumbing, no tiles no nothing.

I do remember for a fact that all you could buy for refreshment was sausage rolls and coca-cola, but everybody still left the Place on a high, just from the music.

Oh happy days ...

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 08:04 AM

Give Keith our regards and remind him of the messages in this thread

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Joyce Jennings ne Bennion
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 04:27 AM

Pete I remember that Triumph Herald. Barry gave me and my sister a lift in it.The floor on the driver's side had a big hole in it and Barry's feet were soaking wet at the end of the journey.
Barry sang that "telepone song". The one that went, "So say who you are love and not hello, if I press button B all my money will go", or words to that effect.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 06:18 AM

Yo, Pete (banjoman) I spoke with Keith Price on Sunday - he was aware of this thread but y'know, he's so self-effacing that I don't think he'd ever contribute to any forum! He's a shy lad underneath all that bluster. I don't normally post anywhere myself but this d*mn thing is so absorbing! He rattled off a quick anecdote about the TV appearance with Old Rope and was laughing so much he spilt his drink! I'm sure he'd love a chat with you and Maggie, so give me a call on 0151 924 5078 sometime and I'll pass on his 'phone number.

Anyway getting back to the ahem 'old days,' Les Brown who's a contributor to this thread did "Silver Coin" on Sunday night - the Terry Hiscox (Hunter Musket) song which I hadn't heard in a long while. I looked out a live tape I made in 1974 of Barbara Dickson. It featured in her repertory in the days when you could see her in Liverpool a lot. This was the last time she was at the Bothy (we paid her £20!) and the whole recording through all the crackle and pop is superb - wasn't she great in that heyday? Anyone know if it's possible to clean up and improve the quality of an old cassette recording - just done with hand-held mic at side of stage into old Phillips piano key portable?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 08:45 AM

Barbara Dickson's old Edinburgh cohort Archie Fisher used to include Silver Coin in his repertoire. It is such a fine song that I suprised that it isn't heard more often.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 10:36 AM

I see that Barbera Dickson is doing a gig at the Anvil in Basingstoke early next year. I may go just to see if she still does any of the songs I remember her doing around Liverpool. I think that her Liverpool connection was mainly based on a friendship with Willy Russel. I have tapes recorded at the Mitre in Liverpool and I still occasionally "Do" one of the songs from it. An Alan Taylor song called The Morning Lies Heavy.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 11:47 AM

The Barbara Dickson Liverpool connection goes back to her mother who comes from Liverpool, and Barbara used to visit relatives in Liverpool as a child.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 11:51 AM

here is a link to Barbara Dickson's This is Your Life. This section deals with her folkie days and features Archie Fisher ( some 6 mins or so in).

Youtube Link

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 02:40 PM

Self-effacing, How very dare you!Hi Pete at long last,no I havn't got a copy of " Love thy docker " [TV prog.] and I hope nobody else has.Thanks for jogging the memory Pete, regards to Maggie.Now then Les C,we were busking for Mencap and the pub was the Ship Inn Haskayne run by the County Folk, anyone remember Trish,Jean,Peter and John.
Les whats it worth if I don't sing early morning shanty anymore.Now will you stop naggimg Clive?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 04:37 PM

Keith, welcome aboard! I still maintain you're a low-key lad, who likes nothing better than a good book and a cat on the lap! - but I'll stop nagging you now. Just keep chipping in bits and pieces of memory dredging! See you next Singers Night.
btw, where's Barbara Snape with more diary extracts? She's gone quiet on us.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 12:02 PM

Hi Keith,

"Now then Les C,we were busking for Mencap and the pub was the Ship Inn Haskayne run by the County Folk"

True enough The Ship.

"Les whats it worth if I don't sing early morning shanty anymore."

Quite a bit! Then a bit more.

You still playing that fiddle?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 06:49 AM

Hi keith - good to hear from you - we dont get to that part of the world much these days but did manage to get to the Swan at Aughton before it closed. My sisters who live in Maghull remembered the club at St Georges? which I think Ted took on after you and Ken left. You may remember my brother Mike playing guitar from behind closed curtains there? He died earlier this year and a lot of familiar faces turned up at his funeral where maggie and I played. We still play in The Old Trout Band whenever anyone books us and still manage the odd club gig. As you may have determined from the name banjoman, I am well in to making and repairing banjos since I retired and have recently rebuilt the old Windsor which you swapped with me for what I think was your first melodeon?
Ah such memories

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 06:53 AM

Has Ken been unearthed and resuscitated yet?

L in C

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Keith Price
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 04:11 PM

Pete I was sorry to hear about Michael, we occassionly met at the Everyman it's a sad loss.You were right it was St Georges folk club Maghull, Ken and I left to form Jack Ketch with Sue Webster and Sean Murphy, later to become the Jack Ketch Band with the lovely Clive Pownceby and Mick Rimmer.Ted kept the club running for awhile with Dave Day (sadly they have both passed on) I remember Dave organising Emma Vickers 80th birthday party great crack. How remiss of I forgot to mention Paul Wright was a resident as well

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 04:58 AM

Keith, do you and Ken get together for demon fiddling at all?

Les Jones
The Bag End Folk Club 1923

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970