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Lover's Return ... Clarification
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Lover's Return ... Clarification |
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Subject: Lover's Return ... Clarification From: Davey Date: 23 Sep 99 - 05:13 PM On the latest Trio II album (Parton/Harris/Ronstadt) there is a song called Lover's Return which is attributed to the Carter Family.. Kate Wolf recorded a song by the same name and very similar words, and claims to have found the song in a 19th century book. Does anyone know if the Carter Family song was a rewrite of that original song? |
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Subject: RE: Lover's Return ... Clarification From: Stewie Date: 24 Sep 99 - 09:37 PM The version that Kate sings on 'Looking back at you' is substantially different from that recorded by the Carter Family in 1934. The closest they come is Kate's 4th stanza which the Carters use as a chorus, but even these differ significantly: Kate's: Oh no, I cannot take your hand God never gives us back our years The love and youth we trusted then Was yours my dear in perfect truth Carters: Oh no, I cannot take your hand God never gives us back our youth The loving heart you slighted then Was yours, my friend, in perfect truth Elsewhere, there are only slight hints (first and last stanzas) that it is the same song. In his notes to Rounder's reissue series of Carter Family Victor recordings, Charles Wolfe writes: 'Another old 19th century piece is "Lover's Return", sometimes called "Too late you have come back to me"; song scholar Sigmund Spaeth included it in one of his works, and it was recorded by several old-time artists before the Carters did theirs - artists that ranged from The Stoneman Family to the Weaver Brothers". I assume Wolfe is referring to Sylvester and Curley Weaver. If so, it is interesting that the piece was in both white and black traditions, but I am unable to find the reference in Dixon and Godrich's 'Blues and Gospel Records'. I could not find the song under either of the above titles in Ivan Tribe's Stoneman discography. It is most probably the 'Too Late' that The Stoneman Family recorded for Victor in November 1928 - Vi 40206. It would be interesting to hear that recording to learn how it compares with the Carters version. Whatever, it definitely seems that the song was a 19th parlor piece on which other 'arty' hands subsequently worked. I hope this is of assistance to you, Stewie. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE LOVER'S RETURN^^ From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 25 Sep 99 - 12:06 AM Stewie, a great big welcome to the Mudcat. You sound like a musicologist--are you? At any rate, you sound knowledgeable and helpful, always welcome traits here. And Davey, I think I've seen your name before, but not much. You, too, are more than welcome here. By the way, Laurie Lewis recorded the Carter Family version of "The Lover's Return" on the Masters of the Banjo CD:
--seed |
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Subject: RE: Lover's Return ... Clarification From: Stewie Date: 25 Sep 99 - 05:27 AM BSeed, thanks for the welcome. No, I am simply a record collector of longstanding and a lover of folk music of all kinds, particularly American. And I am most definitely a lover of the music of the sublime Kate Wolf - what a loss! I have the Arhoolie 'Masters of the Banjo'- nice CD - and Laurie's treatment is basically the same as the Carters, except for that little extra 'high lonesome' bluegrassy feel. However, the second stanza is different. The Carters is (and I will remember to put the command for the line endings this time):
Farewell, farewell, now we must part I am most interested in following up the other oldtimey versions of the song - and Wolfe's reference to the Weaver brothers. Cheers, Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: Lover's Return ... Clarification From: Stewie Date: 25 Sep 99 - 07:38 PM My apologies, my mind definitely must be going. There is, of course, no connection between Sylvester and Curley Weaver, although they both recorded some stuff in the 1920s - Sylvester was from Louisville and Curley was from Atlanta (and most famous for his work with Blind Willie McTell. It did seem a very strange song to be recorded by a black artist - but stranger things have happened and there is plenty of evidence of shared repertoires. No wonder I could find nothing in Godrich. When that finally clicked, it still left the problem as to whom Wolfe was referring. It took some time, but I think I have finally tracked them down - an obscure group. Ivan Tribe writes of a West Virginian group from Beckley who recorded in Johnson City in October 1929 - Vance and Wiley Weaver. Vance played fiddle and Wiley supplied the vocals. Only 2 sides were released - 'Prison Sorrows' and 'You Came Back to Me'. It is possible, indeed likely, that the later is a version of the 'Lover's Return'. Can anyone confirm this? Tribe went on to say that these performances were of high quality (as were those of another WV group which recorded on that day - the Moatsville String Ticklers) and that, had it not been for the Great Depression, Columbia's Frank Walker would have wanted to record both groups again. |
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Subject: RE: Lover's Return ... Clarification From: Davey Date: 26 Sep 99 - 01:49 AM Stewie, many thanks for the clarification, and I'm amazed at the amount of information you have that you're so willing to share with others. That's one of the things that makes the Mudcat so special.. BSeed, thanks for your kind remarks as well, and yes, as you surmise, I'm relatively new to the Mudcat, but you can expect to see more of me in the future. I live in Toronto, and I'm a Network administrator for a financial institution, and a confirmed folkie in my spare time, as well as part of a group running a small folk club putting on monthly concerts in a church basement. Our season opener was last night, featuring Ken Whiteley. |
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Subject: ADD: Too Late (Lover's Return) From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Sep 99 - 03:53 AM TOO LATE (Lover's Return) (traditional) Too late you have come back to me, And say your love is growing yet. You've tried thro' all these weary years, Have tried but vainly to forget. Too late to say you have come back, Since time at last has made you free, And offer'd me again that heart Whose earliest hopes were bound in me! Oh, no, you cannot touch my hand – God never gives us back our youth! But, oh, you loved your question then – Was thine, dear friend, in perfect truth? What of that other love you gave, If I was always in your heart? Dear friend, my faith in thee is dead. 'Tis better, far, that we should part! Come close and let me see your face, Whose chestnut locks are touched with snow, It is the same dear kind face I loved so fondly years ago, The same that on a summer's ever Bent over me and kissed my brow. Oh, happy thoughts of trust and love – Oh, well, it is all over now! Farewell, farewell, now we must part, You never meant to do me wrong, God sent this anguish to my heart To teach me to be brave and strong. Farewell, I know I love you yet, As friend loves friend – God bless you, dear, And guide you through this darkened vale To where the sky is always clear! [from Sigmund Spaeth's "Weep No More My Lady" (1927) sequel to "Read "Em and Weep"] MIDI file: TOOLAT~1.MID Timebase: 192 Name: Too Late This program is worth the effort of learning it. Check our LINKS page to get to where you can download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it. ABC format: X:1
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Subject: RE: Lover's Return ... Clarification From: Liam's Brother Date: 26 Sep 99 - 04:09 AM Lover's Return? Oh, God, no! Tell her I've been married for 10 years. |
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Subject: RE: Lover's Return ... Clarification From: Stewie Date: 26 Sep 99 - 04:14 AM Thanks Davey. And thanks, Joe, it's great to read that original text - I must say the oldtimey artists were moving in the right direction! I suppose we ordinary mortals (as opposed to the 78 collectors) will have to wait until Johnny Parth completes his Document 8000 series to see how the versions of various oldtimey artists vary. Regards, Stewie. PS. 'Read 'Em and Weep' sounds irresistible - how does one access this gem? |
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Subject: RE: Lover's Return ... Clarification From: Davey Date: 26 Sep 99 - 03:07 PM Whooee, we have some real night owls here.. I went to bed after my last posting to this thread... I was only up that late because I was still unwinding from a most enjoyable concert by Ken Whitely, so I had a wee spot of the single malt and checked out the Cafe... Joe, thanks for the lyrics and information about the midi software, I'll be sure to check it out. |
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Subject: Nostalgic Songbooks - 19th century songs From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Sep 99 - 09:13 PM Stewie, I have three books of the nostalgic songs of the 19th century that I really like. There's Read 'Em and Weep and Weep Some More My Lady, both by Sigmund Spaeth; and Heartsongs (or Heart Songs Dear to the American People), published by National Magazine/Chapple Publishing in 1909. All three books are very common, and you should be able to get them for twenty bucks each or less through merchants at http://www.bookfinder.com/. They're great books, all three of 'em. -Joe Offer |
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Subject: RE: Lover's Return ... Clarification From: Stewie Date: 26 Sep 99 - 09:22 PM Joe, many thanks for that information. Cheers, Stewie. |
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