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Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer

Related threads:
Dave Bulmer-related enquiry (105)
Bill Leader / Trailer Records (12)
Obit: The LATE Dave Bulmer (August 2013) (29)
Dave Bulmer - Address (86)
Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6) (169)
master tapes [re:Phoebus/Bulmer !!!?] (139)
morality of collecting (282)
Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer (367) (closed)
Photo of Bulmer required (24)
Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5) (88) (closed)
Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (4) (122) (closed)
'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3 (124) (closed)
'Celtic / Bulmer' aborted Part 3 (12) (closed)
'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Pt 2 (96) (closed)
The 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga (161) (closed)


GUEST,guest 28 Apr 14 - 03:20 PM
Good Soldier Schweik 01 Sep 13 - 05:46 PM
GUEST 01 Sep 13 - 10:51 AM
GUEST,Charles 01 Sep 13 - 10:02 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 23 Aug 13 - 04:51 PM
GUEST,Jack T. 23 Aug 13 - 05:35 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Aug 13 - 03:50 AM
GUEST,London Pete 23 Aug 13 - 03:23 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Aug 13 - 05:41 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Aug 13 - 03:50 AM
MGM·Lion 13 Aug 13 - 02:24 PM
MGM·Lion 13 Aug 13 - 01:41 PM
GUEST,Morris-ey 13 Aug 13 - 12:51 PM
GUEST 13 Aug 13 - 12:49 PM
Continuity Jones 13 Aug 13 - 12:44 PM
GUEST,Morris-ey 13 Aug 13 - 12:38 PM
Continuity Jones 13 Aug 13 - 12:26 PM
GUEST 13 Aug 13 - 12:07 PM
GUEST,Morris-ey 13 Aug 13 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 13 Aug 13 - 11:27 AM
Good Soldier Schweik 13 Aug 13 - 09:14 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Aug 13 - 04:14 AM
GUEST 13 Aug 13 - 03:57 AM
MGM·Lion 13 Aug 13 - 01:08 AM
Jeri 12 Aug 13 - 09:45 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Aug 13 - 07:54 PM
Tyke 12 Aug 13 - 06:45 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Aug 13 - 04:17 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 12 Aug 13 - 02:57 PM
Good Soldier Schweik 12 Aug 13 - 01:30 PM
GUEST,Morris-ey 12 Aug 13 - 11:31 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Aug 13 - 11:03 AM
GUEST,Guest with a capital G 12 Aug 13 - 09:10 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Aug 13 - 08:32 AM
GUEST 12 Aug 13 - 08:14 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Aug 13 - 02:35 AM
GUEST 12 Aug 13 - 01:44 AM
GUEST,James. 11 Aug 13 - 05:07 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Aug 13 - 04:13 PM
Richard Mellish 11 Aug 13 - 04:04 PM
GUEST,guest 11 Aug 13 - 12:55 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Aug 13 - 11:33 AM
Good Soldier Schweik 11 Aug 13 - 09:03 AM
Richard Mellish 11 Aug 13 - 09:00 AM
Good Soldier Schweik 11 Aug 13 - 06:48 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Aug 13 - 04:37 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Aug 13 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,Guest 10 Aug 13 - 11:17 PM
Good Soldier Schweik 10 Aug 13 - 08:37 PM
Phil Edwards 10 Aug 13 - 06:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Obit: The LATE Dave Bulmer (August 2013)
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 28 Apr 14 - 03:20 PM

Is there any update on the fate of the classic folk material that this man and his partner controlled? Will any of the Bill Leader/Trailer Records material be released or sold to another company or individual?


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Good Soldier Schweik
Date: 01 Sep 13 - 05:46 PM

mr sharpley was a solicitor, he was struck off.


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Subject: RE: Obit: The LATE Dave Bulmer (August 2013)
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 13 - 10:51 AM

Just to add to the above, and to really fair and honest to Ruth, she showed me great kindness while I worked for Dave, the little ones Jamie and Callum have lost a dad, and for those three I feel sorry.


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Subject: RE: Obit: The LATE Dave Bulmer (August 2013)
From: GUEST,Charles
Date: 01 Sep 13 - 10:02 AM

I had the misfortune to work for him and he was an odd mix of musician, (toured with Johnny Doonan when I first met him) but he didn't do ANYTHING for musicians unless it it profited him. He once showed me all the Bill Leader tapes and said, ' Nobody gets their hands on these, these are my retirement pension'.

'They can all fuck off'

He held 'Folkies' in contempt and he got one Irish band to record a single, one that would likely find it's way on to every jukebox in Dublin, and then held onto it, refusing to release it saying that he would release it when HE was ready.

The band split up after many years together and will probably never get their recordings back.

Dave Bulmer was no better than many rock managers, you just hope that 'Folkies' would have more genuine love for the music and musicians, he had none.

Good riddance !!!!!1


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 04:51 PM

Jack T. An interesting question. Maybe Mr Sharpley could reply!


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,Jack T.
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 05:35 AM

Does anyone know what is happening with C.M Music now that Mr Bulmer is gone, is it still operating and who is running it.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 03:50 AM

Which is what it is, or should be all about.
Many of Mike's recordings put traditional music from field singers on the map for me.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,London Pete
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 03:23 AM

I have no wish to re-open this debate, but recently came across this statement from Mike Yates on the Musical Traditons site. Yates was talking about his trips to the Appalachians to collect songs and tunes.

"The Far in the Mountains series of recordings was issued simply because I wanted to share the music of these remarkable singers and musicians with others. I was so lucky to have been able to make it to America and to have met up with so many fine people. If, at the end of the day, I was financially out of pocket, then it didn't really matter. It was the singing and the music that mattered, and also, of course, all those generous people who so kindly let me into their lives and homes. They enriched my life. And now, through these recordings, they can continue to enrich the lives of so many others."


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 05:41 AM

BTW ~~ re the recent comments as to the present status and whereabouts of Rosie Hardman, the following not-a-million-years-ago contribution to this very thread seems to have been overlooked

From: GUEST,ROSIE HARDMAN - PM
Date: 05 Aug 12 - 05:27 AM


I commend it as being of utmost relevance and significance, and it also provides an email link for anyone wishing to contact Rosie direct.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 03:50 AM

"I would burn all the fecking tapes."
For all the access people have been given to them - or are likely to be given in the future - who'd notice?
If the 'warehouse-keepers' think for one minute that old Leader issues haven't been digitised and aren't being circulated by the owners as pirate copies among friends, they must live on another planet.
With all the attention being given to Bulmer's behaviour It's only a matter of time before some bright entrepreneur realises that, 'Thar's gold in them thar hills' and sets up a cheapo kitchen industry, which will be be to nobody's advantage - the ripped-off artists, the legally-compromised buyer and certainly not those 'waiting for the right day to dawn' only to find it's bedtime already.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 02:24 PM

... though I do recall a time, not a million years ago, when posts simply headed GUEST would attract a mod/clone note in red, to the effect that such posts were not acceptable, and were liable to be deleted. Has this regulation changed? If so, why were we not told? If not, then why are these anonymous posts I have drawn attention to being permitted?

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 01:41 PM

"Never has there been a more poisonous single thread "

I draw no conclusion from it, but simply record the fact that nearly all the posts like the above (6 back) are the work of a GUEST who has chosen not to identify him/her·self.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 12:51 PM

And the winner is?


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 12:49 PM

So this thread can just be summed up by tickling a pig?


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 12:44 PM

And sitting back and saying nothing would have achieved - nothing.

There's another saying which has sprung to mind. For the sake of his relatives I have censored it somewhat, but you get the drift:

If he didn't want to be known as the man who tickled a pig when he died, he shouldn't have tickled a pig when he was alive.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 12:38 PM

And the continuing vitriol over the years acheived - nothing.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 12:26 PM

People are judged in death by their lives.

When Thatcher died, a great many people were delighted and refused to tow the line of RIP.

When Bulmer died, it wasn't a huge surprise to see that many people on this site aren't too upset.

I really think that if any of his friends or relatives are looking for on-line consolation, they'd know better than to look here. If they don't - if this is genuinely the first time they've heard of Bulmer's less than philanthropic behaviour - well then they have my sympathy. But as it has been pointed out many many times, Bulmer had it within his power to make other people's lives easier at no real cost to him and he chose not to.

There's a Native American saying which is bought to mind - If you stir your one stick in a puddle of shit, your one stick will come out covered in shit.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 12:07 PM

Never has there been a more poisonous single thread


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 12:03 PM

If I were the administrator of the Bulmer estate and read this unedifying thread, I would burn all the fecking tapes.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 11:27 AM

[momentarily back from self imposed exile]

way I look at it..

if I lived a life being kind and generous to a few close friends and family,
whilst consistently behaving like a mean spirited complete **** to everyone else..

then it's not entirely unfair for family & friends to expect my eventual passing to be marked with less than favourable obits...


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Good Soldier Schweik
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 09:14 AM

Rosie Hardman is not dead, but from my understanding she is in need of any money that is owed to her, I think I am correct in saying she is unable to gig these days owing to poor health.
I repeat the best thing that can happen now is for Bulmers relatives to do the honourable thing and return master tapes in playable condition to the many artists whose music has been suppressed for many years.
Jeri, if you happen to be a moderator, might i suggest you resign, you are in my opinion clearly not suited to moderating discussion forums, you remind me of the firemen in fahrenheit 451, who didnt put out fires but started them.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 04:14 AM

"Rosie hardman is not dead"
Thank you for that - I'm delighted to hear it.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 03:57 AM

Rosie hardman is not dead


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 01:08 AM

As for respect, and never speaking ill of the dead, &c: I don't want to fall foul of Godwin's Law; but just think of the implications of any such prohibition being universally observed.

There do seem to have been people who suffered considerable deprivations, both financial & aesthetic, from the activities of the recently deceased; I was not one and have no personal interest in the matter: but can't help wondering just when those so offended by mention of the matter just now feel it will be OK to advert to it again. After the funeral? Or after - how long? - to provide reasonable mourning time? Or when?

Surely now, while the estate is to be executed, probate sought, &c, is the time for those with any possible interest to state it?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 09:45 PM

This thread was started quite a while ago to discuss what was, for some, an emotional issue.

There is an "Obit" thread that isn't an argument. If people don't want to get involved in arguing, they might prefer that thread.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 07:54 PM

Have heard y'all tell us what a nice guy dave was - heard sfa about why he behaved the way he did -nd as for of sympathy for his victims - several of whom are either dead or ill - forget it!
Sums it all up really
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 06:45 PM

Well I hate to say this but I agree with Raggtash have some respect no wonder Dave had little time for you or your ideas when he was alive. I think it's time Joe Offer shut this thread down and made it clear that it was mostly they same people who caused the other threads to be shut and not Dave Bulmer who quite rightly ignored the Morons and Trolls. RIP Dave


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 04:17 PM

"Jim Carroll said he was more concerned about Field singers"
You've said this at least once before Dick - I would be grateful if you didn't say it again, it is neither my belief nor did I say it.
When you said "I am saying everybody should be treated equally"
My esact reply was "So am *******" - fairly memorable I would have thought - stop making things up.
We are not talking about 'degrees' of concern - we are talking about extremes - on the one hand a great deal of attention being given to one group of younger, folk-wise performers experienced enough to look after themselves, being ripped off compared to a number of usually elderly visitors to the folk scene, mostly unaware of its customs and practices and by and large, totally out of their depth - the first is highly regrettable, the second unforgivable.
The response her falls equally into two parts - extreme concern of one group (about a dozen threads worth) to total indifference verging on hostility when the other is mentioned - treated equally or what!!!.
This in no way is to say it is more or less acceptable to rip either off, both are wrong - that is what I said and that is what I believe - do not misrepresent me again.
I believe our older singers need(ed) to be more protected from bad mannered thoughtlessness (I think we once discussed septuagenarians - plus being given beds on the floor when they were booked at a club), underpaid (want to compare album and club and media fees of folk-star guests to some of our great field singers -happy to oblige with that), and how they are treated critically (I'll give you examples of a couple of reviews from one of the leading British folk magazine who's reviews of field singers would have brought tears to the eyes of their relatives had they stumbled across them on line).
I haven't mentioned the protection they need from brain-deads (mentioning no names) who describe them as "acting like gods" when they jocularly express a firmly held opinion on how a tune should be played or a song should be sung
They are/were (most of them are dead now) not of our folk world; they are'were our guests, and good manners, if nothing else, demands they be treated as such.
I certainly believe that the most mediocre of them contributed far more to my understanding of folk song that most folkies I ever met - company not excluded.
Guest,
To finish my response to your distasteful display of emotional blackmail
"The man is dead - let the family grieve!"
As I remember it, Peter Bellamy is dead, Rosie Hardman is dead (think I'm right about this - I used to know her in Manchester) Nic Jones has been out of action due to ill health for some time now and is somewhat restricted in his ability to perform - don't know if you have ever expressed your disapproval of the fact that they have all fallen foul to the behavior of the LATE Dave Bulmer -perhaps you would like to now. You would certainly make your case sound more convincing if you had done or were prepared to do so now.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 02:57 PM

I have been on Mudcat for years, I have never witnessed such appalling comments as I have on this thread.

A man has died. He had family and friends who cared about him, knew him, loved him, warts and all.

I do not care, at this moment in time, what he has done or hasn't done.

I do feel for the people who knew and loved him.

If you must persist in your frankly distasteful diatribe could you at least swop personal email addresses and continue your thoughtless "conversation" in private.

I sincerely hope that when the rest of us shuffle of this mortal coil that such abysmal comments do not mark our passing.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Good Soldier Schweik
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 01:30 PM

"I don't think that anything you say prevents us from taking a look at the whole scene and trying to put right some of the other things that have gone wrong with folksong - do you?"
That was exactly my whole point, Jim Carroll said he was more concerned about Field singers,I replied by saying that EVERYBODY, not just field singers should be treated with respect, I then received abuse from somebody who I have never met called JERI.
And the usual attempts by Jim,to talk rubbish
Jeri, whoever you are, you merely illustrated that you have not got a clue.
IF BULMERS RELATIVES ARE GENUINELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD, THE BEST THING THEY CAN DO IS START TO TREAT FOLK ARTISTS[BOTH TRADUIONAL SINGERS AND REVIVALISTS IN A WAY THAT DAVE DID NOT.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 11:31 AM

I think the point is that whatever family Bulmer had, they will mourn his death. Why would'nt they?


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 11:03 AM

Not unfeeling, just practical.
Kennedy ripped us all off and protected himself with legal threats
He died, and everybody said "The man is dead - let the family grieve!"
"And the rest is silence" as the bard said.
Despite the fact that there have been many dozen protests over Bulmers behaviour nothing has happened to his hoard
You said "The man is dead - let the family grieve!"
And the rest will inevitably be silence.
And the rest will be silence - or do you put your hand on your heart and solemnly promise that everything will be made right after the period of mourning.
Gi'e us a break Jimmy!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,Guest with a capital G
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 09:10 AM

Jim Carroll

Just when you were getting people on your side you have to go and post your latest unfeeling message.

The man is dead - let the family grieve!


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 08:32 AM

"You guys happy now?"
Conversely, would anybody be happy to find his dad was a tea-leaf?
What do you do - go home and forget it?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 08:14 AM

I would suggest someone is saying Dave Bulmer was his Dad.

Reading the vitriol on here would be upsetting to say the least.

You guys happy now?


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 02:35 AM

James
I have no doubt that what you say is true - we have known this for a long time
I don't think that anything you say prevents us from taking a look at the whole scene and trying to put right some of the other things that have gone wrong with folksong - do you?
I do know that describing attempts to put things righ in either case as "ranting on" - both are equally worthy causes in my opinion.

Who was whose dad?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 01:44 AM

He was my dad


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,James.
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 05:07 PM

Naturally I fully understand Jim Carroll ranting on about Peter Kennedy, totally correct, however Bulmer stole money, with the assistance of his legal chum, Neil Sharply of Linconshire, under the title of C.M. Music, many thousands of pounds, this practice continues to this day, I have access to PRS/MCPS files and know this to be correct, Bulmer may be gone but his diverse companies, the latest being HOOKSTONE, directors, Ruth Bulmer and Robert Bulmer will continue with this practce.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 04:13 PM

The collection is a credit to all involved Richard - the Kennedty collection is 60 years too late to undo the massige damage done to folk-song
I really wasn't accusing you of supporting this - my experience of your views wouldn't let be believe that
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 04:04 PM

Jim,

"I have to say my heart gave a leap when I read your 'Full English' collection - until I discovered that it numbered 174 of the 1500 items Kennedy is said to have collected - no Harry Cox, Sam Larner, Cecilia Costello, Robert Cinnamond, Thomas Moran..... and none of the unreleased items - a tiny tip of a very large iceberg and hardly a great deal."

Sorry, my "great deal" was unclear: I was referring to material from many collectors: notebooks and correspondence as well as recordings. I had not looked to see how much of the Kennedy stuff in particular is or isn't yet available. But I do understand that the work is ongoing, so we can hope that it will all become available sooner or later.

Richard


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 12:55 PM

Well you leave me out of it Dick., I never said you were David Bulmer OR Peter Kennedy but I do suspect you may be one of them or ai did before he died lol


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 11:33 AM

Hi Richard,
Thanks for the input.
I have to say my heart gave a leap when I read your 'Full English' collection - until I discovered that it numbered 174 of the 1500 items Kennedy is said to have collected - no Harry Cox, Sam Larner, Cecilia Costello, Robert Cinnamond, Thomas Moran..... and none of the unreleased items - a tiny tip of a very large iceberg and hardly a great deal.
Many of those tracks I don't recognise as being from the BBC project.
This is in no way to denigrate the efforts of The British Library and EFDSS, certainly given the economic straights which have been forced on Traditional music in Britain and Ireland since the BBC project sixty years ago.
My argument is, and has always been that to a large extent the behaviour of Kennedy, Bulmer and their ilk that has contributed to our failure to popularise our music and put it on the map.
The fate of this collection, is only a tiny part of the Kennedy problem, which itself is only a tiny part of a greater problem fleas upon fleas in fact.
It didn't seem too much to ask that Kennedy's behaviour and the general and long-running problem be given some attention on the latest one of fifteen threads on Dave Bulmer - apparently it was.
The argument that Kennedy/Bulmer, "whoever, did some good" (not saying that it is your overall position, but since you brought it up) is not unlike saying that Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Thanks again for being a lone voice in the wilderness.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Good Soldier Schweik
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 09:03 AM

Good post,Richard


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 09:00 AM

Some of the regular contributors on Mudcat are well known for being quick to take umbrage, so it's not surprising that so much of this thread looks like a flame war, but it's still a shame, especially considering the evident widespread agreement that both Bulmer and Kennedy (and others besides) did some good but a lot that was bad.

Regarding the availability of collected material, including the material that Kennedy claimed as his: a great deal of it is now available online as a result of "The Full English" co-operation between the VWML, the National Library and other institutions, and more is being added. That resource can now stand honourably beside the ITMA and the Kist o' Riches.

Regarding the recordings that Bulmer made available either in poor quality or not at all, we can but hope that his heirs and assigns will be more helpful, once his estate has been sorted out.

Richard


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Good Soldier Schweik
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 06:48 AM

this thread has become somewhat like a version of alice in wonderland.
for the record I was a victim of peter kennedy, he illegally recorded a folk on 2 broad cast of a song that i performed and then put it up for sale in his catalogue, Dave Bulmer has suppressed at least one recording that I was involved in.
I have never defended Kennedy.I have never shown contempt for field singers.
Jim Carroll has a habit of accusing mudcat members who disagree with him of saying things they have never said , it is to say the least tedious.
there are many singers and musicians not just "folk stars" who have had their music suppressed for years by Dave Bulmer.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 04:37 AM

Oh - 200 and we appear not to have moved an inch!
Can some kind forum fairy please remove my duplicate posting - sorry
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 04:30 AM

"traditional music and PRS, MCPS & Imro be sorted out,"
I was fascinated when I read this, my thanks for the information Guest; I sincerely hope that you get an opportunity to share your knowledge - I would love to be a fly-on-the-wall on such an occasion.
Organisations like these have milked folk-music virtually dry and are one of the reasons that Folk Music is as impoverished as it is in Britain
I was going to add Ireland, but they have to some extent leaped the wall over here, thanks to the efforts of dedicated individuals and a now co-operative Arts Council, Irish Traditional music has now gained a small but growing place in the sun, though there is some way to go yet, especially as regards song.
I can't say I have gained much from this discussion so far other than a feeling of utter despair at the total lack of interest in, even hostility towards discussing what I regard as the looting of a national treasure - Britain's 'Elgin Marbles'.
Next to the pioneering work carried out by Sharp and his colleagues, the 1950s project stands as the second most important event in British folk history, yet it has, throughout the time I have been involved in folk song, been a subject shrouded in secrecy and discussed only in whispers behind closed doors.
For nearly sixty years our access to the results of this project has been largely limited to a catalogue of shoddily produced cassettes of poor quality reproductions, sometimes disgracefully tampered with, a smattering of poorly annotated and somewhat restricted albums and a set of ten what could have been excellent heavily edited vinyl CDs much in need of remastering, filling in of the gaps and re-issuing.
I understand that one of the reasons this work was never carried out was the prohibitive royalties involved.
This doesn't even approach the rest of the material, the unissued recordings, the folklore, etc. - I have no idea whether there were any interviews carried out with the singers and and musicians.
If there were, and if they survived, this could fill in a huge gap in our knowledge of our music and song.
Even now the project appears to be surrounded by a circle of ignorance (sometimes self-imposed) - I wonder how many people have examined the vital in-house BBC annotated index of the material compiled by Marie Slocum. I am aware that there is a reference copy in The Vaughan Williams Memorial Library, but it is a work that should be on the shelf of anybody with an interest in British and Irish traditional song and Music, alongside Child, Sharp and Bronson.
The actual blow-by-blow work on the project itself is another mystery that needs to be dragged in from the shadows; the informants, the work of the other (largely ignored) collectors (Seamus Ennis, Bob Copper, Sean O'Boyle, et al), how the work was carried out..... an important piece of potential folk-literature in itself.
It seems to me that this (oh dear, not another) thread on the misdeeds of Dave Bulmer was a perfect opportunity widen the subject of the misuse of an important branch of our national heritage - it appears not (deaf ears maybe).
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 11:17 PM

The statement on Phil Edwards posting regarding the availability of vinyl and cds has been "in the public domain" for quite along time.

Suggest that all the doubters read and digest it.

Regarding Jim Carroll's plea that the position viz-a-viz traditional music and PRS, MCPS & Imro be sorted out, that was one of the things that Dave Bulmer tried very hard to do, only to be met by corporate duplicity and bullying despite proving them wrong continually.

I have irrefutable evidence of this but am not prepared to discuss it on Mudcat or any other chat environment.

I am also loath to divulge my identity because of past diatribes by certain individuals who seem to have taken great pleasure in being extremely rude/dismissive/deliberately obstructive even when the information I have posted has been absolutely accurate and aimed only at being informative.

I am quite prepared to discuss this privately with the Mudcat team if that is possible.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Good Soldier Schweik
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 08:37 PM

this thread is unbelievable,
I receive abuse from Jeri, whom I have never met in person, I am accused by Jim, of saying things I have not said, and defending Kennedy, when I have not, for having no respect for bearers of the tradition, when people that know me will find that statement is completely laughable.


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Subject: RE: Bill Leader/Dave Bulmer
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 06:40 PM

Peter Laban:

FWIW, I noticed that during July there was a whole load of new-old (vinyl lp) stock from Celtic Music being sold off on Ebay by a seller in Harrogate.

When I saw what appeared to be Celtic Music selling copies of Ray Fisher's Bonnie Birdie LP (among others) on eBay, I asked the seller if they had the rights to the albums - and if so, why they didn't bring them out on CD instead of selling single copies of the vinyl. I got this reply:

im sorry to be blunt, but you are clearly showing your ignorance in these matters you really should not believe every thing you read on the internet. Two of the 4 albums you have messaged about are available on cd and have been for years! in fact bright phoebus had a radio 4 program all about how it was "lost" and is was proved on air that it was not. you might not be able to get them down at hmv but that's not our fault, try and get obscure jazz in hmv, you cant find it! some of these albums are not on cd, why is this? because they never sold enough, pouring money into a record that didn't sell is a bit stupid no? finally why are we selling the vinyl on ebay, because there are a few people out there who actually want these records, quite often overseas in country's like japan. in stead of trying to vilify us please do a bit of research and a bit of critical thinking... perhaps if people had actually bought the albums when they were released the situation would not be so.


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