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BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges

Sawzaw 02 Oct 12 - 11:06 AM
Joe Offer 02 Oct 12 - 11:17 AM
Little Hawk 02 Oct 12 - 11:34 AM
bobad 02 Oct 12 - 11:47 AM
Joe Offer 02 Oct 12 - 12:00 PM
GUEST,999 02 Oct 12 - 12:07 PM
bobad 02 Oct 12 - 12:09 PM
beeliner 03 Oct 12 - 02:14 AM
Musket 03 Oct 12 - 06:12 AM
Henry Krinkle 03 Oct 12 - 06:40 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 03 Oct 12 - 06:55 AM
Henry Krinkle 03 Oct 12 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,kendall 03 Oct 12 - 07:08 AM
Henry Krinkle 03 Oct 12 - 07:19 AM
GUEST 03 Oct 12 - 08:40 AM
Sawzaw 03 Oct 12 - 08:45 AM
Sawzaw 03 Oct 12 - 08:57 AM
GUEST,999 03 Oct 12 - 09:02 AM
SINSULL 03 Oct 12 - 09:06 AM
Sawzaw 03 Oct 12 - 09:30 AM
Henry Krinkle 03 Oct 12 - 04:35 PM
Jack the Sailor 03 Oct 12 - 05:08 PM
Jack the Sailor 03 Oct 12 - 05:31 PM
Bobert 03 Oct 12 - 06:06 PM
bobad 03 Oct 12 - 07:09 PM
Sawzaw 04 Oct 12 - 07:45 AM
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Subject: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Oct 12 - 11:06 AM

one of the architects of Obamacare has studied the law's effect on premiums in the individual market in three states. In each, he found substantial increases in premiums a 30 percent hike in Wisconsin, 29 percent in Minnesota, and 19 percent in Colorado.

Another Broken Obama Promise: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges

The New England Journal of Medicine recently published an article for its special 'Election 2012' edition signed by nearly two dozen economists and healthcare experts calling for a "systematic approach" to health cost control. Several of the co-authors used to be advisers to President Obama, including former budget chief Peter Orszag, former Clinton Chief of Staff John Podesta, and former Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services head Donald Berwick.

But why are these liberal luminaries calling for a new "systematic approach?" Wasn't Obamacare supposed to fix the nation's health cost problems? The president promised it would, saying, "we can cut the average family's premium by about $2,500 per year." Earlier this year, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) went so far as to say "everybody will have lower rates."
Forget About Providers, What Do Doctors Think of Obamacare?

Like most of the promises made about Obamacare, the pledge that it will lower health costs is turning out to be completely bogus. In fact, it's already raising health costs.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation's latest report on employer-provided insurance, the average family premium climbed 4.5 percent this year. That's more than twice the current inflation rate - and comes on top of a 9.5-percent increase last year. In other words, since Obamacare was enacted, family premiums have climbed nearly $2,000.

For those who work at small businesses, the news is even worse. Family premiums shot up more than $1,100 this year alone - an 8-percent increase.

These cost hikes are just the beginning.

Obamacare seeks to impose a raft of new mandates on insurance, which will add to the cost of coverage.

Already, for example, the law bans lifetime caps on coverage, limits out-of-pocket expenses, and requires family plans to cover children until they turn 26. This third provision - the so-called "slacker mandate" - added as much as 3 percent to premium costs on its own, according to Towers Watson. The law also bans insurers from charging for care deemed "preventive" by the Health and Human Services Department.

Obamacare will also make it far more difficult for companies to control their own health costs. Over the past several years, businesses have been prudently experimenting with different types of benefit plans as a way to bring premiums under control.

The result, as the Kaiser study notes, has been a significant increase in the number of health plans that include higher deductibles. The thinking is that if consumers have a greater financial stake in their healthcare decisions, they'll use medical care more prudently - and thus keep costs down. In exchange for taking on some of the initial costs of care, high-deductible plans offer much lower premiums than conventional policies.

The share of workers with deductibles of $1,000 or more went from 10 percent in 2006 to 34 percent in 2012. Among those employed by small firms, almost half are now in such plans.

The fastest-growing type of plan today is a high-deductible plan that includes a Health Savings Account, which lets families save money, tax-free, for out-of-pocket health costs.

Kaiser found that while just 4 percent of small businesses offered this sort of plan to their employees in 2005, 31 percent did so this year. These plans are now the second-most popular in the market, behind only PPOs.

Unfortunately, Obamacare is trying to halt this cost-control effort by imposing crippling restrictions on high-deductible plans.

For example, the law bans deductibles over $2,000 for single coverage. As a result, 14 percent of all workers - and 27 percent of those in small firms - will end up paying more for coverage after they're forced into a government-approved plan.

And then there are the massive administrative costs Obamacare is imposing. The government has already written thousands pages of rules, including 18 pages just to define a "full-time employee." The House Ways and Means Committee has concluded that complying with the law will require 80 million man-hours a year.

Even Obamacare's backers admit that the law will boost premiums.

Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist Jonathan Gruber - one of the architects of Obamacare - has studied the law's effect on premiums in the individual market in three states. In each, he found substantial increases in premiums - a 30-percent hike in Wisconsin, 29 percent in Minnesota, and 19 percent in Colorado.

Since Obamacare's passage, the cost of health care has continued its upward march unabated. Only by repealing this monstrosity and replacing it with patient-centered reforms - with proven cost-control track records - can we make the American healthcare system work for everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 12 - 11:17 AM

Interesting how some can report all the damage done by Obamacare, long before the program has gone into effect. Seems to me the insurance companies and health care providers are making last-ditch efforts to cash in on the old system before cost controls are put into place.

Obamacare is certainly not perfect. I think a far more radical reform of American healthcare is needed. It's an attempt to compromise and to partially satisfy the needs of everyone. No, it's not ideologically pure, but that's how things work in a republic.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 12 - 11:34 AM

No, this is how things work in an Oligarchy.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: bobad
Date: 02 Oct 12 - 11:47 AM

Im telling you guys - go with the Canadian system - half the cost per person with better outcomes - how can you beat that?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 12 - 12:00 PM

I'd agree, bobad; but I don't think the U.S. is ready for such a radical reform. The legislation is in place, and it's clear that the legislation won't be enough to make a program that works. However, if there are good people in the administration of Obamacare at the onset, they may be able to make it work. We have to move beyond ideology and politics and into practicality now. Our healthcare system has been an absolute mess for a long, long time. It will take a lot of work to fix it.

The Romneycare program in Massachusetts is very similar, and it seems to be working. Too bad Romney disavows it now. He should be proud of what Massachusetts accomplished during his administration, and he should work to promote a similar success on the national level.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Oct 12 - 12:07 PM

I'll ditto that.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: bobad
Date: 02 Oct 12 - 12:09 PM

At least Vermont is moving to a universal, single payer system:http://hcr.vermont.gov/timeline/gmc


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: beeliner
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 02:14 AM

The cost of Obamacare has been given, I understand, as "2.6 trillion dollars over ten years".

That seems at first glance to be an astronomical amount, but according to my math, it averages out to less than $75 per month per American - for virtually FULL coverage of all, or at least most things medical.

Right now I, a retired American, pay over $300 a month for Medicare part B and supplemental private insurance.

Given the choice, I'll go with my share of the 2.6 trillion!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Musket
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 06:12 AM

I used to head up a government body that provided the healthcare budget (NHS) to an area of England. Fairly big money by any standards, (£0.6 billion) and came out at £1,740.00 per year per person, putting it in crude population share terms. (2006/7 the final year with me chairing it.)

We too have corporate interests, mainly the same pharma conglomerates as the USA, decrying the status quo. However, without any "my system beats yours" intention, that amount did and does allow for good healthcare, excellent clinical outcomes and by WHO statistics, comparable to any other model of care, even allowing for our single public health system showing the real picture, whereas in many countries, a lot of people's ailments do not reach health statistics..

So how do they do it?

I mention this purely as a debating point, but stand by it. The more affluent are not "over doctored" and the less well off can present earlier due to not having to consider the cost. it balances nicely. Sure, if you are rich you can go private but in recent years, the adverts for private care are getting more desperate because The NHS can and does deliver. I can afford private but when I needed a minor operation last year, I presented at my GP, was seen by the local NHS consultant two weeks later and booked in for a day case operation the following month. (Unless an emergency, I would not have been able to clear my diary before then anyway!)

My wife is a consultant surgeon and to be frank, does not do private work as there is not much call for it, and she operates on cancers, (oncoplastic breast surgeon.)

That said, I was sent to The USA to look at some primary care models used by Kaiser Permanante and EverCare. I liked a hell of a lot of what I saw...


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 06:40 AM

It's a violation of the rights of Christian Scientists. I don't want their filthy healthcare. I shouldn't have to pay a damned thing to anybody. I avoid doctors.
(:-( ))=


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 06:55 AM

And that is exactly the attitude which has to be overcome before there will be even the chance of universal healthcare in the USA.

Too many Americans (particularly republicans) have this "I'm all right Jack, so f**k you!" attitude.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 07:01 AM

All medical personnel should be in the military and the military should provide all healthcare. Problem solved. Next!!!!!!
(:-( 0)=


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 07:08 AM

There are those who say, I don't drive so why should I pay for roads? or I don't have kids, why should I pay for schools? The reasons are obvious to anyone with an IQ over 60.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 07:19 AM

What about all the damned illegal aliens? Are they going to be forced to buy coverage? They're not gonna stop flooding our ER.s.
(:-( o)=


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 08:40 AM

Since Spaw ain't available, I'll be happy to stand in for him.

Hey Sawzall : Blow me.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 08:45 AM

Blow yourself Spaw.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 08:57 AM

A repeated series of waivers to the ACA were urgently granted by HHS, in order to prevent widespread loss of coverage and substantial premium increases caused by ObamaCare's own decrees. More than a thousand waivers to unions, states, and corporations that cover about 4 million people were granted to avoid "significant increases in premiums or significant decreases in access to health care benefits"… "needed to meet the annual limit requirement" wrote John Dicken, Director of Health Care Issues for the GAO in his letter to Congress.

The Unraveling Of Obamacare

Despite the attempt to highlight the new Census Bureau's reported net decrease in uninsured of 1.3 million people, or 0.6%, as a success story for the Affordable Care Act, we know the reported drop in the number of uninsured actually reflects increases only in government insurance, including 2 million newly insured under Medicare merely by aging, and another 2 million joining Medicaid; likely as a consequence of the economic stagnation under this administration.

Meanwhile, ObamaCare's failures are already widespread.

A key source of the ACA's projected savings, the CLASS entitlement designed to provide unlimited, lifetime benefits for long-term care, was quickly abandoned. Recognizing that its premiums, $86 billion by 2021, would finance the rest of ObamaCare instead of its own costs, Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) called CLASS "a Ponzi scheme of the first order, the kind of thing that Bernie Madoff would have been proud of," and vowed to block its inclusion in the Senate bill. Medicare Chief Actuary Richard Foster calculated the program needed to enroll more than 230 million- more than the entire nation's workforce - to be financially feasible. HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius was forced to admit last October that the plan simply wouldn't work, even backpedaling to Congress that "my comment was that it was unsustainable as the legislation was crafted." CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf noted that month that the "CBO would have estimated that the Repeal the CLASS Entitlement Act would increase federal budget deficits by $83 billion over the 2012– 2021 period, relative to the March 2011 baseline," thereby eliminating 40 percent of the CBO's previous budgetary savings of the ACA.

The ACA's Accountable Care Organization (ACO) blueprint was unworkable from the start. Touted as a new model where doctors and hospitals work together to eliminate unnecessary care, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid pilot program did not work, saving only $100 per beneficiary annually. Even though President Obama put forth Mayo Clinic and Geisinger Clinic as models of what he wanted to achieve, the American Medical Group Association, representing those very same organizations – Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, Geisinger Clinic and many other premier health care groups – wrote the administration that a full 93 percent of its members would not participate, because the rules were "overly prescriptive, operationally burdensome, and the incentives are too difficult to achieve."

The ACA's medical device tax – on revenues, not just profits – is already destroying high-paying jobs for Americans and moving them overseas. Directly accounting for more than 400,000 high-paying U.S. jobs of the sort our young people seek, these companies are already eliminating jobs because of ACA's onerous taxes. ACA's new taxes will cost Boston Scientific more than $100 million a year, so they built a $35 million research center in Ireland instead of the U.S. and announced another $150 million site in China. Stryker of Michigan announced job cuts of 1,000 workers last November "in advance of the new Medical Device Excise Tax." CEO Curt Hartman reiterated this month that the tax will force companies to move their operations overseas, eliminating American jobs.

Cook Medical of Indiana scrapped plans to open five new plants in the Midwest, while saying "in reality, we're not looking at the U.S. to build factories anymore as long as this tax is in place." CEO Alex Lukianov of San Diego's NuVasive wrote "to offset this tax increase, we will be forced to reduce investments in research and development and cut up to 200 planned new jobs next year" and "as a result of the law, for the first time in our history we are being compelled to consider moving manufacturing, clinical trials and investment in new innovation to more business-friendly countries." And CEO Mark Waite of Lighthouse Imaging in Maine stated what is obvious to anyone with an understanding of business 'This [tax] will end up making the cost of goods higher, and since most of these medical devices are required, as opposed to being optional, that cost gets passed on to the consumer and the cost of care goes up.'

The Medical Loss Ratio mandate is already forcing insurers out of the market and reducing insurance choices for Americans. Five insurers, including two of the nation's largest, already decided to stop selling health insurance in Indiana, mainly because of the ACA edict, according to the Indianapolis Business Journal. And the American Enterprise Group, citing the medical loss ratio and other regulatory burdens, will stop offering individual insurance in more than 20 states, causing 35,000 people to lose their coverage and create a less competitive insurance market. Ironically, young adults are also seeing their choices disappear, as colleges are dropping low cost, limited coverage plans altogether or pricing students out of health insurance because of these actuarial requirements and the bureaucrat-defined list of "essential" benefits dictated by ObamaCare.

A repeated series of waivers to the ACA were urgently granted by HHS, in order to prevent widespread loss of coverage and substantial premium increases caused by ObamaCare's own decrees. More than a thousand waivers to unions, states, and corporations that cover about 4 million people were granted to avoid "significant increases in premiums or significant decreases in access to health care benefits"… "needed to meet the annual limit requirement" wrote John Dicken, Director of Health Care Issues for the GAO in his letter to Congress.

Meanwhile, ObamaCare forces highly publicized rebates, but the truth is that they may or may not amount to much. As the Virginia-Pilot reported, "Clifton Alford, a Norfolk chauffeur, opened two letters from his health insurer on the same day this summer. One contained a $9.83 rebate check; the other announced a $44 increase in his monthly premiums for the same plan. Alford, 36, said he was tempted to cash the check in pennies: 'The only other thing I can think of to do would be to send it to Washington and tell them where to shove it.'"

The record is clear – since its rush to passage by President Obama and the Democrat-controlled Congress in 2010, the ACA is doing harm. While the president's supporters try to control the message, it becomes even more urgent that all Americans realize that an alternative choice is at hand. As opposed to President Obama's passion for more government control, Governor Romney trusts free market solutions. And instead of government panels to limit care, Mitt Romney's commitment is that all Americans deserve the right to decide with their doctors how aggressively they want to pursue advanced medical care. Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan want Americans and their families to control their own health care decisions. Their plan would facilitate competition to improve choice and reduce costs, and provide seniors with the option of private insurance. But giving seniors a choice is an idea that this administration finds unacceptable.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 09:02 AM

"Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 08:45 AM

Blow yourself Spaw."


That wasn't Spaw who posted the remark to which you refer, FYI. Spaw always posts under his own moniker.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 09:06 AM

An aside:
Meantime, a convicted murderer is fighting for his right to a sex change operation at the expense of the state of Massachusetts and so far winning.
How does that work? Some poor child on Welfare can't get treatment for a life threatening disease but a convicted murderer can get anything?
Now back to our regular programming.
SINS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 09:30 AM

That is a good example Sins.

That's the kind of shit I am talking about that is totally ass backwards wrong.

The administration is spending $900 million to buy Russian Helicopters for Afghanistan. 40% of which is borrowed from China.

But they can't take care of Americans. The single Mom making $9 per hour gets rolled under the bus in favor of Afghanistan.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 04:35 PM

The government just wants your money.
(:-( o)=


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 05:08 PM

I think the point is that the child is covered in Massachusetts.

I don't agree with paying for the sex change. But it won't deprive anyone of coverage in Massachusetts.

I also think that a GOP supporter complaining about the cost of cleaning up the mess that they made in Afghanistan is worse that hypocritical. I guess you would rather we spent several billion on domestic choppers. The fact that the Russian choppers are especially designed and battle tested for the use that they are intended for and that all of the ground maintenance crews would have to be retained at enormous cost in time and labor should not be factored in?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 05:31 PM

Not to mention the risk to the trainers.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 06:06 PM

The simple reason we have such high health care costs... Hospitals and health provider groups are owned by the upper 1% who think they deserve as much wealth that they can extract out of the country...

(But Boberdz... Aren't some of these hospitals owned by churches???)

Well, only kinda... Behind those screens are investors who want 10%, 15%, 20% return on their money when the average guy can't get 1%...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: bobad
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 07:09 PM

"I don't agree with paying for the sex change."

Do you agree with prisoners receiving health care for medical disorders?
Gender Identity Disorder or Gender Dysphoria is classified as a medical disorder.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Healthcare Cost Monster Emerges
From: Sawzaw
Date: 04 Oct 12 - 07:45 AM

Jack rolls the $9 per hour working Mom under the bus in favor of Afghans.

"This is not a war of choice. This is a war of necessity. Those who attacked America on 9/11 are plotting to do so again. If left unchecked, the Taliban insurgency will mean an even larger safe haven from which Al Qaeda would plot to kill more Americans."


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