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BS: Theresa May's new year message

Dave the Gnome 01 Jan 17 - 02:11 PM
punkfolkrocker 01 Jan 17 - 02:17 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Jan 17 - 02:18 PM
Joe Offer 01 Jan 17 - 02:29 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Jan 17 - 02:37 PM
David Carter (UK) 01 Jan 17 - 03:37 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Jan 17 - 05:17 PM
Joe Offer 01 Jan 17 - 06:35 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Jan 17 - 07:17 PM
Backwoodsman 02 Jan 17 - 12:58 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 17 - 03:20 AM
akenaton 02 Jan 17 - 04:07 AM
David Carter (UK) 02 Jan 17 - 04:13 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 17 - 04:50 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 17 - 04:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 17 - 07:43 AM
akenaton 02 Jan 17 - 07:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 17 - 08:10 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 17 - 08:19 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 17 - 08:39 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 17 - 08:40 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 17 - 08:45 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Jan 17 - 09:04 AM
Stu 02 Jan 17 - 09:09 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 17 - 09:47 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 17 - 09:53 AM
Greg F. 02 Jan 17 - 10:07 AM
akenaton 02 Jan 17 - 10:10 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 17 - 10:23 AM
akenaton 02 Jan 17 - 10:30 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 17 - 10:42 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 02 Jan 17 - 10:56 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 02 Jan 17 - 10:58 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 17 - 11:04 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 17 - 11:07 AM
akenaton 02 Jan 17 - 11:25 AM
Greg F. 02 Jan 17 - 11:38 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 17 - 12:20 PM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Jan 17 - 12:36 PM
Teribus 02 Jan 17 - 12:41 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 17 - 12:44 PM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 17 - 12:46 PM
Good Soldier Schweik 02 Jan 17 - 12:54 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 17 - 01:56 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 17 - 02:28 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 17 - 03:24 PM
akenaton 02 Jan 17 - 05:14 PM
akenaton 02 Jan 17 - 05:20 PM
Teribus 03 Jan 17 - 03:30 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Jan 17 - 04:08 AM
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Subject: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 02:11 PM

I like the message. Not quite sure what a lot of it means but, if the words "We all want to see a Britain that is stronger than it is today," May says. "We all want a country that is fairer so that everyone has the chance to succeed. We all want a nation that is safe and secure for our children and grandchildren. These ambitions unite us, so that we are no longer the 52% who voted leave and the 48% who voted remain, but one great union of people and nations with a proud history and a bright future. So when I sit around the negotiating table in Europe this year, it will be with that in mind – the knowledge that I am there to get the right deal not just for those who voted to leave, but for every single person in this country." are true then surely she is on a winner.

I find it difficult to reconcile the message of a right wing prime minister with fairness but should we be giving her a chance?

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 02:17 PM

.. will the ultra right wing nutters in her party give her a chance...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 02:18 PM

Dunno PFR. Good point though.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 02:29 PM

I wonder how it is, that the nutters got in a place wnere they could bully us all. Theresa May seems reasonable much of the time, but Farage talks like he thinks he's PM.
And here in the US, the bully actually got elected.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 02:37 PM

Well said, Joe. I am left wing politically but if May does follow up on this I will take of my hat to her. Let us drop partisan politics and support whoever does the best job for everyone.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 03:37 PM

If she wants to get the right deal by me she should be pursuing the idea of associate EU citizenship for those who want it, as floated by Goerens and Verhofstadt. I would certainly be prepared to pay for this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 05:17 PM

Empty talk, Dave. A Tory is a Tory. Self-interest, tax breaks for tbe rich, sod tbe poor and tbe sick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 06:35 PM

I dunno, Steve. Does it have to be so? Could it be that some people on the other side have wisdom?


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 07:17 PM

It is so, whether it has to be or not. You're a Tory because you think the unemployed, the sick, the disabled and the poor need to be shat on, that the trade unions should be emasculated, that workers' rights should be abolished (roll out the euphemisms such as "the flexible labour market"), that the NHS should be privatised for profit and that working people are there to make profits for people who are already much richer than they are. You are a Tory because you think that housing benefits should be cut for the poorest people, that it isn't important to build affordable homes and that private landlords should have free rein to do whatever they like. You're a Tory if you handle non-doms, tax evaders and bankers with a very light and indulgent touch. You're a Tory if you believe that it was right for the poorest to suffer most under austerity for almost a decade whilst the richest were left alone. Does it have to be that way? Well what do you suggest we do to change it?

Theresa May is a Tory right down to whichever pair of her posh shoes you wish to contemplate. So ask her, not me. But be assured that her balm-laden speech was bereft of any honest intent to change things for the vast majority of people for the better. If you think I'm being too cynical, ask me again on Dec 31 and I guarantee that you will think I wasn't being cynical enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 12:58 AM

She's Thatcher's spawn. Trust her at your peril. Unless you're a multi-millionaire, of course, in which case you can trust her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 03:20 AM

Sorry Dave - did I miss something?
What exactly did she say other than the usual politicians waffle - jobs, industry, homelessness, inequality..... ?
It was totally devoid of practical proposals of how to get out of the mess Brexit has created.
A sort of non-royal Queen's speech.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 04:07 AM

I think the point Joe is that wisdom does not come into the equation.
The economic system we employ only works if it is allowed to run at peak efficiency, low taxation produces wealth but does not provide for the poor or those surplus to requirements.
A socialist system requires high taxation or a large cut in living standards for the middle class, neither of which would at the moment be acceptable.
A society which takes into account the environment, the lack of resources and the welfare of its people may evolve at some point if humanity survives to see it, but the incessant war between the "two wings of the same bird" as promoted by Mr Shaw, only makes that point much more difficult to reach.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 04:13 AM

No you didn't miss anything Jim, apart from what wasn't there which was any substance behind the soundbite. European politicians, being a shade more empathetic, have aired a possible solution for those of us who wish to remain engaged with and in Europe. May so far has refused to engage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 04:50 AM

Well, Ache, I don't know which wings of what bird you're on about but what I do know is that you and the Trump/Farage axis are two cheeks of the same unwashed arse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 04:59 AM

"A socialist system requires high taxation or a large cut in living standards "
Simplistic nonsense
A socialist system requires a total reconstruction of society - if it won't work now, when will it work
Society is becoming more divided and the lower sections more and more impoverished and subservient to the State - that is never going to evolve into anything but totalitarianism.
No speeches by Iron Ladies (even the ones wearing velvet gloves) is ever going to change that.
Your analysis is like religion - things might be miserable now, but put up with it and you'll eventually pass on to a better place.
Socialism has always ended up in the hands of people who sing "Somewhere, over the rainbow" - all advocates of knowing our place.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 07:43 AM

It was just that bit that I quoted, Jim. I suspect that you and Steve are right and is just empty promises, but the question I posed was should we give her a chance.

As you know, my politics do lean to the left but I am also impressed by the way things can be done elsewhere - The inclusion of board level employee representation in some European countries for instance or the socialist entrepreneurship of people like Elon Musk. We have seen that unrestricted capitalism is a disaster, but so were the the early communist models. In Russia and China for instance. Surely there has to be a way to utilise the good bits of currently opposing systems?

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 07:54 AM

Up the revolution! is not the answer Jim.
It will be a slow learning curve if we ever make a start, but smearing and demonising our fellow citizens because they have an alternative view at present, only delays progress.

Just look at Steve's latest rant, "You're a Tory because you think the unemployed, the sick, the disabled and the poor need to be shat on, that the trade unions should be emasculated, that workers' rights should be abolished (roll out the euphemisms such as "the flexible labour market"), that the NHS should be privatised for profit and that working people are there to make profits for people who are already much richer than they are. You are a Tory because you think that housing benefits should be cut for the poorest people, that it isn't important to build affordable homes and that private landlords should have free rein to do whatever they like. You're a Tory if you handle non-doms, tax evaders and bankers with a very light and indulgent touch. You're a Tory if you believe that it was right for the poorest to suffer most under austerity for almost a decade whilst the richest were left alone. Does it have to be that way? Well what do you suggest we do to change it?"
Do you think he really means that...that all conservatives are evil beasts, do you think he understands that in this economic system if wealth is not created society dies?
There is nothing fair or egalitarian about corporate capitalism, but at least the conservatives attempt to run it efficiently.
When the centre left were last in power they spent all the money and ran for cover, leaving a heap of shit behind.

The capitalist system is finished in the developed West, that is how the system works it moves on to greener pastures.....but who clings on hardest to the illusion? The "liberal" left.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 08:10 AM

There is no economic system that can eliminate capital. The most basic economic equation is to try to divide limited resources amongst unlimited wants and that is done by careful manipulation of the three fundamental 'economic gods' of capital, labour and natural resource. To say that either capital or labour can provide the solution on their own has proven to be false. Natural resource is the one that is now being brought to the fore as it becomes more obvious that we will run out. People wanting these resources will fight for them; the most powerful will win and, as ever, ordinary people are ones who will suffer most. Global resources must be just that. Global. Localisation or nationalistic ownership of any of these resources will make matters worse. True globalisation and properly managing the worlds resources, including labour and capital, must be given priority.

But don't ask me how. My economics degree course was cancelled after a few weeks due to lack of interest :-(

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 08:19 AM

"but the question I posed was should we give her a chance."
They've all had their chances a thousand times over - how many more times do we trust these maggots of society?
If we can't get a society for all, we need a say in our lives that puts an end to the slide into extremism.
Ake rants about socialism not being acceptable yet, following the war, probably the last decent Labour Government introduced a series of revolutionary changes to our lives - social housing, accessible health care for all paid or from our taxes and very limited nationalisation of industry, all violently opposed by the Tories... this was within my lifetime.
It made a tremendous difference to people like us - I could get treatment for my two bouts of diphtheria caused by the appalling two-room conditions we were living in in Anfield, my parents no longer worried about getting enough food to feed us, we eventually moved into our own flat in Speke and later into a house in Kirkby..... - not a revolution, but a totally new life for us and ours.
I suggest, for those who haven't already, try and see Ken Loach's magnificent documentary, 'The Spirit of '45'.
Later Governments, Labour and Conservative, allowed those gains to fall into disrepair (with the exception of health - which was a bone they could never take back) and along came Thatcher, who respectablised greed and formalised a divided society of haves and have-nots.
Even the most benevolent of the Tories ("The Wets"), were appalled a what she did; I still look back with admiration at Harold McMillan's description of her "selling off the family silver".
None of this happened because "the people were not ready for it" as Ake insists, but because Thatcher took Britain as far to the right as it has ever been, before or since.
Her admiration for Pinochet and her description of him as "a hero of democracy", was an indication of how far she was prepared to go if anybody got in her was 9in the end, even her own colleagues found her an EMBARRASSMENT
Those changes are needed again - things can simply not go on as they are without a radical shift - either to the extreme right or to the not-so-extreme left.
At least one contributor here has made his mind up on that one!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 08:39 AM

Don't get me wrong here, Jim. In principle I agree with what you say about the number of chances they have had but, as you said yourself, there have been Tories who were not like Thatcher. I have a particular hatred of how the present and last administration simply wrote of those who could not find work and tried to lay the blame for all our ills on immigration. The politics of fear and hatred seem to have crept out of the gutter and found a new high that even the iron lady would have been amazed at!

The line that I find most significant in your last post is If we can't get a society for all, we need a say in our lives that puts an end to the slide into extremism. I think we should concentrate on that. Let us try the economics of compassion and responsibility which, to be honest, have been proven to be more efficient that slavery anyway! It can be done and works very well in some places.

Maybe May has seen that they have gone to far and is attempting to apply the brakes? Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part. But, whichever is true, it is what we have for the next few years so any little bit that will slow down that slide into extremism is going to help.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 08:40 AM

Are Tories all evil beasts? Well there are two reasons for voting Tory. First, maybe you don't really understand politics. My Grandad worked in Salford docks all his life, brought up his family in that dirty old town and always voted Tory because the priests from the pulpit told him to. Second, you think that the Tories will be good for you first and the rest can go hang. The Tories will always excuse your inclination to selfishness, greed and looking after Number One. Oh yes, the apologists will tell you that the Tories run the country "more efficiently." Don't believe a word of it. Since the war, the Tories have always presided over the highest inflation, the worst recessions and the highest unemployment, they sold off the nationalised industries for far less than they were worth in order to make us "a share-owning democracy" (in other words, Tory voters for life), they wrecked our manufacturing industry for ideological motives and they let loose the spivs in the City who eventually wrecked the economy at no cost to themselves (thanks for not intervening, Tony Blair). So I'd say that the average sentient Tory does indeed have a streak of evil. Not all evil, not necessarily beasts, but more than happy to excuse that streak in themselves. And to thank the Lord for their good fortune on Sunday mornings as likely as not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 08:45 AM

The phone rang before I'd finished that. Meant to add that the bumbling idiots also managed to inadvertently get us ditched out of Europe. Nice legacy, soft-faced Call-Me-Dave.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 09:04 AM

always voted Tory because the priests from the pulpit told him to.

Shite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 09:09 AM

"but smearing and demonising our fellow citizens because they have an alternative view at present, only delays progress."

""liberal academic elite"

Streuth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 09:47 AM

"always voted Tory because the priests from the pulpit told him to"
I grew up in this culture - many of my relatives on my mother's side did exactly this.
This still prevailed into the 1960s in Liverpool (obviously not in Hertford, where people there speak for the rest of Britain apparently)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 09:53 AM

So not "shite" then, Keith. What I said is absolutely true. Cheers, Jim. Maybe Keith was just expressing the leafy suburbs side of the story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 10:07 AM

You're a Tory because you think the unemployed, the sick, the disabled and the poor need to be shat on, that the trade unions should be emasculated, that workers' rights should be abolished... & etc.

Just like the current crop of Republicraps put in power by idiot U.S. voters.

I find it difficult to reconcile the message of a right wing prime minister with fairness

Apparently she can lie just as shamelessly and as well as Trump.

the question I posed was should we give her a chance.

Should one "give Trump a chance"?

I think not, in either case.

See    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/opinion/trumps-agents-of-idiocracy.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 10:10 AM

There is no excuse, Mr Corbyn promotes a very watered down version of socialism, but even that is rejected by the vast majority of the voters.......and you have the audacity to question my statement that we are not ready for an systemic change.

As I have said, Mr Corbyn's job is to educate the population on what socialism really means.....and you better start praying that someone "electable" does not become Labour Party leader by default.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 10:23 AM

Meaningless drivel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 10:30 AM

Well, the village idiot cant understand it, so it must be accurate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 10:42 AM

"Meaningless drivel."
Absolutely - ask him what he thinks of public ownership - or people of a different colour or religion moving to Britain, or the things mass-murderer Breivik said that were worth listening to, or the good things about Assad's torture chambers, or Donald Trum as 2016 Man of the Yaer....
All genuflected to by this "socialist"
"Mr Corbyn's job is to educate the population on what socialism really means"
Patronising shite - he's a socialist, not a missionary spreading teh good word to 'savages'
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 10:56 AM

Theresa May, in her £995 trousers, couldn't give a damn about those at the bottom of the ladder. She's done nothing to help the homeless, those caught up in the horror of the now almost evil Welfare State created by IDS, Cameron & Osborne.

She also doesn't give a damn about the 1950s women (1960s women too) who've had SIX and SEVEN YEARS added to their pension age, without govt even bothering to inform us, govt having to actually admit this now.

She is a 60 year old woman herself, so she knows full well we were not told.

She knows of the horrors facing many women now, women who've paid over 40 years of NI, who are now thrust into the Benefits System and she doesn't care one iota about any of us.

She is, in my view, another Thatcher, utterly absorbed with herself and her chums, who puts more thought into her shoes, than her People, and who spends more on one pair of shoes, or trousers, than very many of her people have to live on for a whole month, or even two months.

She is A Putrid Chief, like every Tory leader before her and some Labour leaders too.

Corbyn is the nearest we have to a REAL chief, for he at least CARES about The People, and they sense this, know that he is different from the rest.

I'm tired of Mentally Deraged Feckers running ANY country, or being in ANY positions of power and there should be some kind of mental health checks to ensure that those who have NO emapthy, compassion, shame nor guilt, are EVER allowed into positions of power.

As for Trump, well, at least the world is about to get one helluva lesson about Narcissistic Personality Disorder in the coming years, if he lasts that long, for this is a game to him, a huge game...and he won't be able to take the criticism coming his way once he becomes President.

To put such a man in charge of a nuclear button beggars belief, but then May seems itching to use Trident too, of course...

Meanwhile, the homeless remain homeless, the sick, disabled and unemployed ground through the system of terror, alongside we 1950s/60s women, who are denied our state pensions, by this woman too, who is, needless to say, a feminist, (spit!) whilst they roll over in their money, watch their pals making £fortunes, as The People die....

Bastille II anyone?

Anyone know any songs about Madame Guillotine?

Her words are EMPTY, just as they were when she uttered them outside No 10. She is also wholly unelected, thus, surely, anything she does can be declared illegal.....?

We're in deep shite, as is USA, but Crazy Horse saw it all coming...and if nothing else, it's woken many up, for the first time in decades.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 10:58 AM

'Deranged'


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 11:04 AM

I really think that people are talking different languages at times. A great deal of fuss was made on more than one of my threads about this being a discussion forum and about how the rules of debate work. Yet here we are again using the same terms to mean entirely different things. Socialist means one thing to me, and to others I expect, yet to some it means supporting Trump and Farage. Liberal means one thing politically and another socially. Being liberal socially is, I always understood, to be accepting and tolerant. Yet here it is again being used as a derogatory term. If we do not even speak the same language, how can we ever possibly reach an agreement? If we cannot reach an agreement, even if it is just to differ, what is the point of the discussion?

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 11:07 AM

Thanks for dropping by, Lizzie. Have a look at the 'usual suspects' thread too. It is all about trying to find common ground.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 11:25 AM

Jim, I don't give a stuff what colour or religion immigrants are, just so that we have some control of the numbers and status of those who come here......your remark is a downright lie.

As is the rest of your post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 11:38 AM

Germaine to "giving them a chance":

But this debacle didn't come out of nowhere. We've been on the road to stan-ism for a long time: an increasingly radical G.O.P., willing to do anything to gain and hold power, has been undermining our political culture for decades.

People tend to forget how much of the 2016 playbook had already been used in earlier years. Remember, the Clinton administration was besieged by constant accusations of corruption, dutifully hyped as major stories by the news media; not one of these alleged scandals turned out to involve any actual wrongdoing. Not incidentally, James Comey, the F.B.I. director whose intervention almost surely swung the election, had previously worked for the Whitewater committee, which spent seven years obsessively investigating a failed land deal.

People also tend to forget just how bad the administration of George W. Bush really was, and not just because it led America to war on false pretenses. There was also an upsurge in cronyism, with many key posts going to people with dubious qualifications but close political and/or business ties to top officials. Indeed, America botched the occupation of Iraq in part thanks to profiteering by politically connected businesses.

The only question now is whether the rot has gone so deep that nothing can stop America's transformation into Trumpistan.

One thing is for sure: It's destructive as well as foolish to ignore the uncomfortable risk, and simply assume that it will all be O.K.

It won't.

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/opinion/america-becomes-a-stan.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 12:20 PM

"Jim, I don't give a stuff what colour or religion immigrants are,"
Maybe not - you just don't like foreigners
You suggested Breivik was making points worth listening to
You appeased Assad's record as a torturer and mass murderer on the Syrian thread
You are an outright Trump supporter and have not long suggested that the Democrats are making his job difficult, making you a hater of democracy as well as liberalism
You have persisted in attacking homosexuals as disease carrying perverts who have chosen their life-style
Long after the establishment outlawed the practice of making asylum seekers wear armbands, you continued to propose it.
You claim to be a socialist - the nearest you come to this is National Socialism - tried, tested, found wanting ( six million witnesses to prove it) and defeated in a World War.
I'm tired of you people squealing "liar" when someone repeats what you say - You are what you are - live with the fact that you've long blown your cover.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 12:36 PM

Jim, why do you always try to smear other members instead of just discussing the issues.
Your "memories" of what people have said in the past are highly unreliable. Why bring up ancient, unrelated discussions when involved in a current discussion?
If you can not debate what is actually said here, why post at all?


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 12:41 PM

How odd Lizzie, in that diatribe not one word about the person who raided the pension funds to buy votes to keep himself and Labour in power.

Should we give the current Prime Minister a chance - of course we should, we have after all given all her predecessors a chance, Blair after all was given three chances. As to the current Prime Minister being right wing, I would think "Centre-Right" is a more accurate description.

Shaw's posts to this thread are rather revealing - A great believer in stereotypes and mass generalisations is Steve - a ideological bigot who can be told nothing and who is prepared to learn nothing, as nothing but his own view is acceptable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 12:44 PM

"Jim, why do you always try to smear other members instead of just discussing the issues."
You are free to challenge anything I said Keith - I have described accurately what Ake has claimed and it has relevance here - we need to know who we are talking to
I don't need to "smear" you people - you do that far more adequately than I ever could
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 12:46 PM

I thought it was perfectly acceptable practice to smear ones opponents nowadays. Hilary Clinton is a criminal. Brendan Fox is an extremist. Or is it only OK for high profile right wing politicians to do it?

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Good Soldier Schweik
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 12:54 PM

Theresa May is an Actress.
Ronald Reagan was an actor, both of them represent the Establishment, neither of them represent the dispossessed, or care a jot about the less well off, I think she is a hypocrite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 01:56 PM

Theresa May is an Actress - Ronald Reagan was an actor.
A MAY TRUMP REMAKE MAYBE - WADDYA THINK?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 02:28 PM

Well Shaw''s posts to this thread may well be revealing but you failed to say in what way and to provide chapter and verse on what they revealed to you and how. That makes your New Year distemper rather revealing, ironically. Have another vat of Brew 11.

"Should we give the current Prime Minister a chance - of course we should, we have after all given all her predecessors a chance, Blair after all was given three chances."

Indeed, though Blair was given three chances by THE ELECTORATE. May has yet to be given even one chance by THE ELECTORATE. .


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 03:24 PM

"bLAIR"
Before this becomes a "Your politicians are more dishonest than my politicians" competition - is it not a fact that the way things stand, it doesn't matter what party they belong to, they are nearly all as dishonest as one another and the sham system of "democracy" we live under allows them to thrive, even encourages it with features like lobbying - they are nearly all self-servers and the best of them are incompetent
They promise, get elected and immediately forget what they promised - sort of as if The Men in Black came along with their memory eraser thingies and zapped them.
Pointing to others doesn't make them any less lying scumbags
Make the bastards accountable or don't vote for any of them.
I'm not an anarchist, but I am a strong supporter of their slogan - "don't vote for them, it only encourages them.
Continuing to ignore what they are perpetuates their dishonesty
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 05:14 PM

Jim your post of 2nd Jan 17 12:20pm is a pack of lies and misrepresentation.

I just do not know why this person is allowed to make these disgraceful charges.......I challenge him to quote accurately and in context any of these things that I am supposed to have said.
Jim, your anger and bewilderment increases by the day, don't you think it may be worth your while to check what has actually been said rather than try the old intimidation technique?


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 17 - 05:20 PM

The only thing which you have got right is that the Democrats are trying to make the transition of power as difficult as possible.
There is no doubt on that score.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 03:30 AM

"though Blair was given three chances by THE ELECTORATE. May has yet to be given even one chance by THE ELECTORATE"

Ah so exactly the same as Gordon Brown then Shaw.

"is it not a fact that the way things stand, it doesn't matter what party they belong to, they are nearly all as dishonest as one another and the sham system of "democracy" we live under allows them to thrive, even encourages it with features like lobbying - they are nearly all self-servers and the best of them are incompetent
They promise, get elected and immediately forget what they promised" - Jim Carroll


My view of the entire crop of "professional" politicians we seem to be lumbered with these days Jim and had you bothered to read my post in conjunction with the one written and posted by Lizzie Cornish you would find that I was providing precisely the balance you point out above.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 04:08 AM

"I challenge him to quote accurately and in context any of these things that I am supposed to have said."
I linked you to several of them which you deny making - you accepted them, I saw little point in repeating the exercise
You said what you said about Breivik; that he was making a point worth listening to - want me to dig it out again?
You supported making refugees wear Identification tags and described the protests as "a storm in a teacup" - want me to dig it out again?
You support Trump and have said the Democrats are making things hard for him to Govern - no point in digging that one out - you are still at it.
You appeased Assad's behaviour along with newbie Iains - want me to dig it out again?
You constantly attack homosexuals and have describe their "dangerous" and "chosen lifestyle as "disease carrying" - you are notorious for your obsessive hatred of these people so there seems little point in digging it out, but I will give a selection if you would like to review it   
What exactly of these did I make up?
I'm getting fed up with both you and Keith saying thing then calling me a liar when I repeat them
I don't lie and would be extremely stupid to do so on a site where what is written is retrievable
I may be ignorant on many topics, but I'm neither stupid or dishonest
Jim Carroll


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