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Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk

GUEST,CJB 09 Feb 17 - 09:34 AM
GUEST,CJB 09 Feb 17 - 09:40 AM
Nigel Paterson 09 Feb 17 - 11:01 AM
Will Fly 09 Feb 17 - 11:07 AM
Nigel Paterson 09 Feb 17 - 11:36 AM
Will Fly 09 Feb 17 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,CJB 09 Feb 17 - 06:11 PM
Nigel Paterson 10 Feb 17 - 04:22 AM
Will Fly 10 Feb 17 - 06:36 AM
GUEST,CJB 10 Feb 17 - 07:36 AM
Richard Mellish 10 Feb 17 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,CJB 10 Feb 17 - 04:15 PM
GUEST,cookieless nickp 10 Feb 17 - 04:26 PM
Richard Mellish 10 Feb 17 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,CJB 13 Feb 17 - 07:11 AM
GUEST,ChrisJBady 13 Feb 17 - 08:58 AM
GUEST 13 Feb 17 - 07:32 PM
Jason Xion Wang 14 Feb 17 - 02:20 PM
Will Fly 14 Feb 17 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,CJB 15 Feb 17 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,CJB 15 Feb 17 - 05:52 PM
GUEST,Gealt 15 Feb 17 - 06:51 PM
GUEST,FolkSongCellar 21 Feb 17 - 05:16 AM
StephenH 22 Feb 17 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,me 22 Feb 17 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,nickp (cookieless) 23 Feb 17 - 03:57 AM
GUEST 23 Feb 17 - 04:21 AM
GUEST,CJB 23 Feb 17 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,CJB 23 Feb 17 - 11:38 AM
GUEST 24 Feb 17 - 12:14 AM
GUEST,matt milton 24 Feb 17 - 08:20 AM
Will Fly 24 Feb 17 - 08:35 AM
GUEST 24 Feb 17 - 11:20 PM
GUEST,CJB 25 Feb 17 - 02:43 AM
Rusty Dobro 25 Feb 17 - 02:50 AM
Nigel Paterson 25 Feb 17 - 05:55 AM
GUEST 25 Feb 17 - 07:18 AM
GUEST,CJB 25 Feb 17 - 08:30 AM
GUEST,CJB 25 Feb 17 - 08:47 AM
GUEST,CJB 25 Feb 17 - 10:48 AM
punkfolkrocker 25 Feb 17 - 01:25 PM
punkfolkrocker 25 Feb 17 - 01:27 PM
Nigel Paterson 26 Feb 17 - 05:54 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Feb 17 - 06:33 AM
GUEST,Guest - Rabee 26 Feb 17 - 07:38 AM
GUEST,CJB 26 Feb 17 - 08:41 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Feb 17 - 08:59 AM
GUEST,CJB 26 Feb 17 - 09:01 AM
GUEST 26 Feb 17 - 09:17 AM
Will Fly 26 Feb 17 - 09:43 AM
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Subject: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 09:34 AM

Lots of files have suddenly appeared on various cloud sites - all for free downloading.

* My Kind of Folk / Greif and (ex-Usenet)

WeTransfer 1 - My Kind Of Folk etc.

WeTransfer 3 - My Kind Of Folk etc.

WeTransfer 2 - My Kind Of Folk etc.

WeTransfer 4 - My Kind Of Folk etc.

WeTransfer 5 - My Kind Of Folk etc.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 09:40 AM

The above include My Kind of Folk, Grief and Glory, and Degrees of Folk (audio from t.v. series)

Contents as follows
Folder = Low-Fi
Grief And Glory 5 of 6 broadcast between 08/10/1967 - 12/11/1967 - Second series of BBC Songwriting progs
Degrees of Folk TV series hosted by the corries 9 episodes from 1968
Leonard Cohen & Julie Felix items were one offs

Folder= MKF01-20
MKF1        Alex Campbell & Leesiders
MKF2        Dominic Behan & Strawbs
MKF3        Noel Murphy & Panama Limited Jug Band
MKF4        Carolyn Hester & Lynn and Grahame McCarthy
MKF5        Jacquie and Bridie & Jeremy Taylor
MKF6        The Tinkers* & Wally Whyton
        (Folk Group with changeable Lineup only consistent
        member Gerry Fox)
MKF7        Arlo Gutrie & The Strawbs
MKF8        Ian Campbell FG & Leon Rosselson
MKF9        Steve Benbow, Saffron, Sweeneys Men
MKF10        Young Tradition & Stefann Grossman
MKF11        The Four Folk & Dave and Toni Arthur
MKF12        Hedy West, The Halliard & Derek Brimstone
MKF14        Hamish Imlach & The Skerries
MKF15        Redd Sullivan & Martin Windsor with Maureen Kennedy Martin
MKF16        Clancy Brothers, Tommy Makem & The Johnstons (Pre Paul Brady)
MKF17        Peggy Seeger & Ewan MacColl
MKF18        Johnny Silvo, Piers Hayman & Sandy Denny
MKF19        Leonard Pearsey, Mary Kent and Tim & Martin Wyndham Read

Folder=MKF21-40
MKF21        Martin Carthy and Dave Sarbrick, Nadia Cattousse & Bob Davenport
MKF22        The Foggy-Dew-O & Cy Grant
MKF24        Jeremy Taylor & Sidney Carter & Nick Taylor
MKF26        Alex Campbell, The Valley Folk & Derek Sargeant
MKF27        Pat Nelson, The Yettis & Dis Disley
MKF29        Al Stewart, Ron Geesin and Giles, Giles & Fripp
MKF30        The Spinners, Packie Byrne & Lizzie Higgins
MKF31        Dorita Y Pepe, Los Zafiros & Paco Pena
MKF33        Leonard Pearsey, Sinnermen and Sarah & Joy and Jennifer
MKF35        THe Valley Folk, Lea Nicholson & Tim Hart and Maddy Pryor
MKF37        Jackson C Frank and Chris Hardy & The Young Tradition
MKF38        Tom Paxton
MKF39        Archie Fisher, The Humblebums, Barbara Dickson & John McKinnon
MKF40        The Johnstons, Wally Whyton & Wizz Jones

Folder=MKF41-60
MKF41        The Dubliners
MKF42        The Strawbs, Alan Price & Don Partridge
MKF43        Jake Thackray, Sinnermen and Sarah & Lynn & Grahame McCarthy
MKF44        Johnny Silvo, Maureen Kennedy Martin & Fife Reivers*
        (Fife Reivers were a family group that made a few club appearances
        to showcase son Russell, recorded 1 LP and not be heard of again)
MKF45        Redd Sullivan and Martin Windsor & The Valley Folk
MKF46        Don Partridge & Street Entertainers*
        (There was a Concert at the Albert Hall where
        Don Partridge presented some of London's
        Better known buskers and street entertainers)
MKF49        The Johnstons, Al Stewart & Peggy Seeger
MKF50        Los Paraguayos & Dorita Y Pepe
MKF51        The Islanders, Aly Bain and Mike Whellans & Jean Redpath
MKF52        Alex Campbell etc
MKF53        The Penine Folk
MKF54        Al Stewart, Pete Morgan & John James
MKF56        Jeremy Taylor & Dave Swarbrick and Martin Carthy
MKF60        Dave and Toni Arthur, Glenside Ceilidh Band & Nic Jones

Folder=MKF61-80
MKF61        The Settlers, Wally Whyton & Malcolm Price
MKF62        Peter Sarstedt & The Johnstons
MKF63        Ian Campbell, Dis Disley & Harvey Andrews
MFK64        Y Triban & Wolfgang Schmidt
MKF65        Hamish Imlach, The Exiles, Shealagh McDonald & John Martyn
MKF66        Dominic Behan, Christie Moore & Ian and Lorna Campbell(Duo only)
MKF67        The Taverners
MKF68        Gordon Lightfoot Band & Lynn& Grahame McCarthy
MKF69        Pentangle, McCarthy & Swarbrick and Archie Fisher
MKF72        Nigel Denver, Johnny Silvo, The Tinkers & Bobby Campbell
MKF73        Al Stewart
MKF76        Leesiders, Shealagh McDonald & John Pearse
MKF77        Noel Murphy and Shaggis(Davy Johnson), Magna Carta & Tony Rose
MKF78        James Taylor, The Johnstons & Gordon Giltrap
MKF79        The McCalmans, Barbara Dickson & Dick Gaughan
MKF80        The Young Tradition

The Series ended with prog 81 which featured items from earlier editions - not recorded

Folder=Others
        Some items from a series presented by Peter Sarstedt
        plus some odd items which may be of interest


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 11:01 AM

Very interested to see that MKF 12 includes 'The Halliard', myself, Dave Moran & Nic Jones. Are these downloads legal?
                                     Nigel Paterson, mandolin 'The Halliard'.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 11:07 AM

Interesting and very varied collection of stuff, of variable quality - sounds like a lot of home taping!


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 11:36 AM

Will, home taping would seem to be the most likely source, because, as is widely known, the beeb 'wiped' a large quantity of programme masters (Radio & TV) & re-used the tapes. The question still remains, who owns the rights to this 'cornucopia'?
                                                                                                       Nigel.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 12:05 PM

Oh - almost certainly the BBC, if they're the source of the original programmes. It's a bootleg collection and, of course, everyone did it then. Whether the Beeb would actually be bothered about the tracks these days I wouldn't care to say!

In my Beeb days (1968-1975) I regularly grabbed discs from the Sound Archives collection after work, checked them out and took them home to record on my cassette player - whole Goon shows, for example (now all available on the market). But the quality of some of this stuff is pretty poor, with very variable sound quality. I had to boost the waveform with Audacity on some of the tracks to get a reasonable sound, and it was obviously done with the typical domestic equipment of the day.

From what I've played so far (forgetting technical quality for the moment), some of is much better than the rest. The Pentangle sounded pretty crappy and boring - strange, because I was a great fan of them when they first appeared. How tastes change... But Carthy & Swarb sounded absolutely rock solid, and Archie Fisher was superb. Many of the programmes were produced by Frances Line, who was a regular customer of ours in the Reference Section. A very efficient and brisk woman - strange that some of the programmes sound so very much men-in-suits and stilted.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 06:11 PM

More here:

'Folk on Two' this time ...

https://www.adrive.com/public/NbQyHa/Folk%20on%202


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 04:22 AM

I remember Frances Line very well. She produced all The Halliard's broadcasts, bar one. Frances was easy to work with, engendering a relaxed, no rush atmosphere, even in the slightly awkward 'environs' of The Paris Theatre, Piccadilly.
                                                                   Nigel.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 06:36 AM

I always thought the Paris was a slightly odd place - a small, formal theatre in the Regent Street area - but some good programmes came out of it.

I was a regular attendee at the Playhouse Theatre down Northumberland Avenue on Saturday afternoons to see "Country Meets Folk" being broadcast. I ran the BBC Folk Club (Clanfolk) for a spell, and got a clutch of free tickets for it each week from the Ticket Unit. Saw loads of people there, including Pentangle, Ralph McTell, etc. - all with the great Brock (Brian Brocklehurst) on bass.

Then up the road to the Sherlock Holmes pub for a pint or three, and then a walk up west through Hyde Park and Kensington Gardens to our Bayswater bedsit.

Great days.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 07:36 AM

Final 6th link of recordings featuring Peter Sarsted

https://we.tl/pnX7eSXHWr


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 09:54 AM

I've looked at all four of the batches listed in the original post. Their content doesn't align in any simple was with the index. In particular, MKF24, which would be of interest as it includes both Jeremy Taylor and Sidney Carter, doesn't seem to be there at all. But still there is some interesting stuff there, including in MKF66 Christy Moore singing a version of the Dublin "Spanish Lady" song with a quite different story from the usual one.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 04:15 PM

Yeah - and some of the names are spelt wrongly. The files were uploaded by a person or persons unknown. They were originally on Usenet. The links were circulated amongst a small group of OTR folk enthusiasts. There are more links to come - if anyone is interested.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,cookieless nickp
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 04:26 PM

Yes, more would be of interest indeed. Thanks


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 06:14 PM

First, let me correct of a typo in my 09:54 post: "was" should be "way".

Second, the same unusual version of Spanish Lady is at here


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 07:11 AM

MKF 24 is here:

https://we.tl/w4cZiywkpk

Any others missing?


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,ChrisJBady
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 08:58 AM

Will Fly - you said:

"In my Beeb days (1968-1975) I regularly grabbed discs from the Sound Archives collection after work, checked them out and took them home to record on my cassette player - whole Goon shows, for example (now all available on the market)."

Did you ever make recordings of the Folk Song Cellar transcription discs? These would have dated to about 1966? We are missing quite a few episodes. Many thanks.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 07:32 PM

Is it possible someone could make the MKF files available again - the WeTransfer links at the top are now dead. Many thanks!


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 02:20 PM

Great stuff. Thanks


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 03:58 PM

Alas, ChrisJBady, my cassette collection went to the dust heap many years ago - also I never recorded folk material of any kind. And all records were religiously returned the very next day!


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 05:05 PM

Here's new links ... expiry in 7 days.

My Kind of Folk / Grief & Glory / Degrees of Folk / One-off Concerts

https://we.tl/yjguKu6vrW

https://we.tl/Jw6y6DfSMj

https://we.tl/sGqImRm8wc

https://we.tl/qMMEvQciad

https://we.tl/czMQIeORWC

https://we.tl/Bn0ODCdUTp

Folk on 2

https://www.adrive.com/public/NbQyHa/Folk%20on%202

Download for free - links good for a week

CJB


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 05:52 PM

The Genome db can identify the actual programmes by date ...

e.g. Folk on Two

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?adv=0&q=%22folk%20on%20two%22


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,Gealt
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 06:51 PM

"Second, the same unusual version of Spanish Lady is at here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHgv8RAA7GQ "

The sound is very bad but it does not sound like CM, some bloke with a Dubelin accent.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,FolkSongCellar
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 05:16 AM

Folk Song Cellar

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/rg4ttvv4k83tv/Folk_Song_Cellar

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/rg4ttvv4k83tv/Folk_Song_Cellar

What we have - there is a continual appeal for more recordings of missing episodes ...

FSC


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: StephenH
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 12:32 PM

Thanks to both CJB and FolkSongCellar for making these available for download. Lots of very interesting stuff there. Cheers!


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,me
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 03:58 PM

This is a fantastic treasure trove, thanks very much for sharing it.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,nickp (cookieless)
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 03:57 AM

Indeed! Many thanks


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 04:21 AM

How come I am unable to download this? :(


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 10:31 AM

Charles Chilton - Songs of Protest (1977)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?adv=0&q=songs+of+protest&media=all#search

Is here - for a short while:

https://we.tl/50r05wxduO


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 11:38 AM

Another website with flk and country recordings is here. Highlight each link, then use Right Mouse Click to do a Save As of each file.

http://bfbs-radio.blogspot.co.uk/p/blog-page_24.html


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 17 - 12:14 AM

Songs of Protest (1977), presented by Ted Moult. Now there's a name from the past....
A list of BBC radio programmes of the day in which he did not appear would be quite short.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 24 Feb 17 - 08:20 AM

"Very interested to see that MKF 12 includes 'The Halliard', myself, Dave Moran & Nic Jones. Are these downloads legal? – Nigel Paterson, mandolin 'The Halliard'"

They would appear not, Nigel. A bit of 'home taping', as someone else put it above. Nigel, do you have a Bandcamp page? If I were you, I would set one up, grab the Halliard stuff from the links above and offer the music as a "Pay what you want" option on your Bandcamp page. Give the money to charity or something. Whenever these sorts of things crop up - as they so often do - I'm torn between thinking: "isn't it great that this music that would otherwise not be heard at all is available to hear"; and thinking it's a bit of a shame that any performers of the music that are still around don't have any say about anything.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Feb 17 - 08:35 AM

It was meself that mentioned the copyright of the music with regard to the BBC.

When I worked at the Beeb, the usual contract for musicians included a payment for the performance, plus extra payments for repeat broadcasts - but with the actual copyright of the performance vested in the BBC. This was certainly the case with my stuff, at any rate.

Whether the Beeb is still interested in retaining that copyright after all this time, I don't know - but it might be worth checking. (a) They might still possess the original tapes (b) They were, after all,responsible for the recording session, etc.

Worth checking.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 17 - 11:20 PM

Almost certainly illegal, but why worry.

The quality of the downloads was not the best (to say the least!) and unlikely to be cleanable-upable, so no one is likely to make any financial gain from them.

Similarly, I can't see that any of the performers' income would have suffered from their being made available for a short time to those few people who downloaded them out of curiosity.

OK, I know there is a principle involved with sharing of copyright material, and I suspect that there are those who believe that the files in question are just the thin end of the wedge. But really, is it worthwhile dragging it into this thread?

A victimless crime if ever there was one imho, and would be thrown out of court in any right-minded jurisdiction (I hope....)


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 02:43 AM

There's far more such uploads to YouTube than ever offered here. One which is well over-the-top on YT is a 3-hour upload of the Oldham Tinkers' recordings from their albums.

And what about the parallel thread of folks here trying to download copies of LPs from the World Library of Folk/Primitive Music?

The recordings offered in this thread are those that have been lost to the nation, enthusiasts and performers alike becaue they have been locked away in dusty archives never to be heard again, or worse been deliberatley wiped.

Indeed recordings of varying quality of long-wiped programmes have been offered back to such as the BBC and been refused. The BBC is only interested in recovered commercially valuable recordings such as Dr. Who or Dad's Army. It has been reported that the Beeb was not interested in recooveed 'lost' Clitheroe Kid episodes.

And the Beeb is certainly not interested in recovered recordings of anything 'folk.' We have 100s of Folkweaves, and other folk programmes - the Beeb never even had the courtesy to respond to our offer of those. This has been othes' exepiences too. Indeed even folk programmes aired today are never kept except those off-air captures by folk enthusiasts.

It might also be recalled that a few years' ago the multi-million pound project by the Beeb to put all of its archives online was abandoned at great expense and waste of licence fee payers hard earned.

As far as OTR enthusiasts selling recordings whilst there are home-made CDs on eBay, the general unwritten rule is that recordings should be freely shared and never sold or traded.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 02:50 AM

"OK, I know there is a principle involved with sharing of copyright material, and I suspect that there are those who believe that the files in question are just the thin end of the wedge. But really, is it worthwhile dragging it into this thread?

A victimless crime if ever there was one imho, and would be thrown out of court in any right-minded jurisdiction (I hope....)"

If Diane Easby were still around, blood would be flowing by now......


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 05:55 AM

For Matt Milton: thanks very much for the suggestion. I've sent a link to your post to Julia Jones, Nic's wife. She deals with all things 'Jones' & 'Halliard'.
                                                                                        Kind Regards,
                                                                                                               Nigel Paterson.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 07:18 AM

Just to clarify, before blood flows, that my "victimless crime" statement referred specifically to the music linked to in this thread and not to the sharing of copyright material in general.

OK, where does one draw the line, I hear you ask? Perhaps it just has to be a moral judgement by the person sharing or making the material available, and those downloading it. I'm sure that CJB will have considered this factor, and more power to him.

As for those downloading, no one is holding a gun to their head and demanding that they should participate....


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 08:30 AM

What do we do with our rare and unique recordings that even the Beeb doesn't have or more worryingly doesn't even want? Kaleidoscope only wants lost or missing or wiped t.v. programmes. No-one but no-one wants 'folk.'

But there was a case recently. We found a 'Folk on 2' from the 1970s(?) - not a good recording but listenable to - featuring the late Barry Skinner and one Rosemary H. We couldn't trace Barry Skiner's family, but Rosemary H. had a good website. We emailed her. We said that she could have a copy of said recordng. We uploaded the recording and sent her the link. Quuite rightly - when all said and done - she is very particular about who sings her songs using her arrangements. They are special. And she said that she didn't want the link to be made public. That was OK; so only she had the link. When I checked the download stats. over 70 had downloaded the recording!!!


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 08:47 AM

So here's a treat - the late Sam Larner - fisherman - interviewed and singing ... in the 1960s ...

You might be interested in the four programme made by Philip Donnellan for the BBC Radio Home Service which have just come to light. These are off-air recordings made onto reel-reel tape in the late 1950s / early 1960s. They have been contributed into the 'public domain' by one of Ewan MacColl's Critics Group members (who wishes to remain anonymous). They are incredibly rare since they were only ever aired once on the BBC Home Service in the late 1950s / early 1960s.

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/980r0sht5ktg2/Sam_Larner_-_1960

On behalf of:
Critics Group member, who wishes to remain anonymous - 25.2.14


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 10:48 AM

Clicky here:

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/980r0sht5ktg2/Sam_Larner_-_1960


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 01:25 PM

Cheers mates...

Unfortunately I have made no progress on my limerick tribute [errrmmmm.. to myself...]
because Mudcat is a family friendly website
and my gutter mind won't budge from the punch line rhyme for Burton "Beef Curtain"... 😬


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 01:27 PM

clearly posted to the wrong thread here...

But this does mean I can claim a prize from steve for the most extreme thread drift...


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 05:54 AM

By way of clarification: the fact that the beeb appears to be disinterested in recovering any of these recordings, regardless of quality, source etc, etc., legally, copyright still rests with the BBC. Speaking personally, if someone 'discovers' 'The Halliard' by virtue of one of these downloads, I would be more than happy, providing the recording was for personal use only. Anyone seeking to exploit these recordings commercially would, almost certainly, have to apply to the BBC for a licence. I speak from personal experience.
                                        Nigel Paterson, mandolin, 'The Halliard'.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 06:33 AM

These recordings contain some gems of British culture, they are, as far a I am concerned, are Britain's 'Elgin Marbles' and should not be lost because the Beeb no longer have an interest in them - that does not mean I would be happy to see them marketed and exploited.
Pat and I and many of our friends are included in some of those programmes, in each case, we were either paid a pittance or volunteered our services free of charge - the idea that our's and many others' efforts should be lost offends us.
I am extremely grateful to C.J.B. for his efforts in main them public - long may he continue to do so.
By the way C - I'm happy not to remain anonymous on anything you may fave received from me, other than those I have specifically requested to.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,Guest - Rabee
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:38 AM

To CJB - "So here's a treat - the late Sam Larner - fisherman - interviewed and singing ... in the 1960s ..." Philip Donnellan

You're right - a rare treat indeed. I've just indulged myself with a huge Networked Storage (NAS) system and I'm slowly loading on to it my assorted collection of tapes cassettes LPs etc . It's great to be able to call up any recording you fancy from any room in my house, without having to scrabble thro' assorted hard discs, reel to reel recordings etc.

One of the first items I uploaded was these recordings of Sam and what a delight it was to call them up whilst lying awake in bed the other night and play them back. Cheered me up no end.

Don't suppose you have a copy of the filmed interview with Sam???

BB


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 08:41 AM

Rabee - yes, the recordings of Sam Larner are indeed gems. So is anything from Philip Donnelan. Like Charles Parker he has been well forgotten by the Beeb's left wing politically correct fraternity of snowflakes.

Sadly we don't have that film, indeed I'm not sure if it even exists.

But we DO have the films of three of the original Radio Ballads (see YouTube) - sadly showing timecodes. But again what gems?!!


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 08:59 AM

I have a VCR copy of The Singer and the Song - interviews with Sam and Harry Cox (though they never met)
Hope to make them available as soon as I can sort out the digitisation
Not sure of your reference to left wing, politically correct snowflakes C
The right wing establishment sacked both Philip and Charles (both left wingers) and eventually dismantled the 'Features Department' which produced all those wonderful programmes.
Charles's and Ewan's refusal to allow the horrific suggestion that all gypsies who wouldn't conform should be "exterminated", in The Travelling People' Radio Ballad proved the last straw.
There's an excellent account of the history of the features department in D G Bridson's 'Prospero and Ariel' "the rise and fall of radio - a personal recollection (still available, last time I looked)
It includes a description of the first appearance of Ewan singing in the street for a Manchester cinema queue in the 1930s - well worth searching out.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 09:01 AM

To: Nigel Paterson

I assure you that as far as we are concerned no money is made from these recordings in any shape or form. All of the equipment, media, and time is given freely or paid for by the OTR community.

And specifically if we find anything from 'The Halliard' incl. members / ex-members we can and will offer said recordings to you in lew of going public; that is as long as they can actually be saved being that many tapes are now becoming unplayable. The same goes for anyone else we know of like Rosemary H.

This whole OTR scene is really a rescue mission as media disintegrates or becomes obsolete.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 09:17 AM

Jim - we could / should? debate left wingism v.v. rghtwingism at the BBC some day. But I do take your point that it was the right wingers who sacked Donellen and Parker and likely Michael Mason and consigned their works to obscurity. But whatever, it is a shame that the productions of Donnelan, Parker, Mason, and indeed MacColl are unlikely ever to be aired again, indeed if the Beeb still has their recordings. And it is the short-sighted (disinterested) policies of the Beeb in wiping and discarding so many recordings of our culture that are the causes of this whole convoluted rescue attempt. Take care - CJB.


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Subject: RE: Cornucopia of 1960's Brit. Folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 09:43 AM

Just one comment on the BBCs wiping of tapes at the period that we're talking about.

Given the expense of quality audiotape and the quantity that would have been required, it was absolutely impossible at that time to keep every recording of every programme that was ever broadcast. Programmes were erased and the tapes re-used.

The value judgements made at the time as to what to wipe and what to keep could be endlessly debated now, depending on your point of view and your particular set of interests. It may have been less clear at the time as to what was or wasn't part of our "culture" - and what should or should not have been kept. I grant you that we can look back with hindsight and say, "oh how stupid and short-sighted they were". They seem to have been negligent to our Mudcat community with its particular interests - perhaps not so much to others.

Don't mistake me - I'm not saying that there weren't some regrettable losses as a result of their policies and decisions, there certainly were - but the decision-making processes may not have been as clear-cut as we think.


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