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BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal

Bill D 09 Feb 17 - 05:33 PM
robomatic 09 Feb 17 - 08:40 PM
Bugsy 09 Feb 17 - 09:04 PM
Acme 09 Feb 17 - 09:19 PM
Nigel Parsons 10 Feb 17 - 03:40 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Feb 17 - 03:55 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Feb 17 - 04:13 AM
Senoufou 10 Feb 17 - 06:30 AM
gillymor 10 Feb 17 - 06:38 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Feb 17 - 07:05 AM
Acme 10 Feb 17 - 07:06 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 10 Feb 17 - 10:22 AM
Bill D 10 Feb 17 - 11:17 AM
robomatic 10 Feb 17 - 11:22 AM
DMcG 10 Feb 17 - 11:47 AM
robomatic 10 Feb 17 - 01:03 PM
robomatic 10 Feb 17 - 02:45 PM
Greg F. 10 Feb 17 - 02:56 PM
robomatic 10 Feb 17 - 03:06 PM
Donuel 10 Feb 17 - 04:21 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Feb 17 - 07:26 PM
Bill D 11 Feb 17 - 10:32 AM
Greg F. 11 Feb 17 - 10:46 AM
Acme 11 Feb 17 - 11:04 AM
Bill D 11 Feb 17 - 11:08 AM
Acme 11 Feb 17 - 11:24 AM
Bill D 11 Feb 17 - 11:40 AM
Bill D 11 Feb 17 - 03:58 PM
Donuel 11 Feb 17 - 05:02 PM
Bill D 11 Feb 17 - 06:08 PM
Donuel 11 Feb 17 - 06:14 PM
Greg F. 11 Feb 17 - 06:22 PM
Bill D 11 Feb 17 - 07:18 PM
Acme 11 Feb 17 - 08:16 PM
Bill D 11 Feb 17 - 09:22 PM
Big Al Whittle 11 Feb 17 - 09:24 PM
Joe Offer 11 Feb 17 - 09:28 PM
DMcG 12 Feb 17 - 02:52 AM
Greg F. 12 Feb 17 - 09:33 AM
Jeri 12 Feb 17 - 10:02 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Feb 17 - 11:19 AM
Senoufou 12 Feb 17 - 12:21 PM
Senoufou 12 Feb 17 - 12:22 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Feb 17 - 12:24 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Feb 17 - 12:34 PM
Bill D 12 Feb 17 - 01:40 PM
Big Al Whittle 12 Feb 17 - 02:18 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Feb 17 - 03:49 PM
Big Al Whittle 12 Feb 17 - 05:16 PM
Bill D 12 Feb 17 - 05:58 PM
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Subject: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 05:33 PM

https://thinkprogress.org/this-french-philosopher-is-the-only-one-who-can-explain-the-donald-trump-phenomenon-47afad40647c#.pvw7i3xm7

Read it all if you can tolerate philosophy. It doesn't help now that he has the job, but it clarifies a lot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 08:40 PM

I haven't tried your link but there are significant parallels between Trump and Berlusconi, who was re-elected PM of Italy more than once.
I think he got his comeuppance over legal/ monetary conflicts.

Right now I'm watching an interesting old flick: "A Face in the Crowd". Demagoguery is nothing new in American politics. Just that I don't have the good feeling I used to when I could assure my foreign friends that "political jokes are fine, as long as they don't get elected."


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bugsy
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 09:04 PM

It all scares the hell out of me.

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Acme
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 09:19 PM

I thought of some of the goofy Italian elections (including porn stars running for office) but this has resulted in something that looks more like it's out of one of the equatorial banana republics, with Trump trying to be a strongman instead of simply the president. (My apologies to the equatorial nations that don't have crackpot leaders).

And more to your point, I love the French philosophers and used Barthes a number of times in my philosophy and English theory classes. Thank for the link!


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 03:40 AM

The New European 'newspaper' has possibly hit a new low this week (it's a weekly, broadsheet sized, English language, newspaper) a full front page picture of Trump, with the barcode strategically place across his upper lip.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 03:55 AM

Both Trump and Brexit were foisted on the world on the basis of fear and mistrust of "strangers in our midst" - leaders of an ailing society maintaining the status quo by dividing the exploited - a classic tactic of divide and rule.
Immediately after Brexit, racist incidents in Britain soared - Trump went to the polls on an openly racist agenda - Mexicans and "alien bad dudes" and "terrorists in our midst" - a doctrine of hate that echoes pre-war German with Trump the demagogic leader instead of Hitler.
His power lies in his wealth, not in rhetoric or his charisma - the man exudes repulsiveness on the platform - he lacks both Hitler's and Mussolini's ability to mesmerise.
His 'concern for the people' is illustrated by his contempt for them as customers and his crude disregard for women.
The claim that he is the "people's choice" is a myth - he actually won 46.2% of the vote compared to Clinton's 48.1% - he is a minority President who came to power by way of a democratic anomaly in the American voting system.
He selection of followers is an indication that he is attempting to create a Plutocracy and his behaviour is indicative that he is prepared to dismantle parts of the American Constitution in order to do so.
His dream for America is a reincarnation of Hitler's dream of a 'Reich that will last a Thousand Years'
Only the extremist right can possibly welcome this dangerous man as a saviour of the world and their refusal to discuss his policies and their implications, as far as I'm concerned, earns them 'Thatcher's description of "The Enemy Within".
Hopefully America will wake up before his diseased politics spread - his fouled up world isn't the one I wish to bequath the next generations.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 04:13 AM

Nothing low about the barcode Nigel - a stroke of genius.
That sums the man up perfectly - a wealthy would-be dictator - satire at its very best.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 06:30 AM

Jim, your post at 3.55am was superb. I agree with every word. I've sat here translating it for my husband, and he too feels it absolutely hits the nail on the head. He says, "Bravo Monsieur Carroll!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 06:38 AM

Thanks for the link to the article in the OP, Bill. Interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 07:05 AM

Many thanks Sen - very much appreciated
My very best wishes to both of you
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Acme
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 07:06 AM

It's a good read! Roland Barthes was a smart guy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 10:22 AM

I read the linked article last night, just before retiring. It caused me to have a dream in which Donald Trump was dressed in wrestling tights and hitting Chuck Schumer with a folding chair. It was rather shocking. I usually dream about things that aren't likely to happen in real life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 11:17 AM

Bee-dub.... I never internalize stuff 'quite' that clearly.... but you sure hit the nail on the.. umm... succinctly describe the point.

Trump won by playing directly to those who do not care whether he is lying or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 11:22 AM

I just read the article. Isn't this the old "Bread and Circuses" argument, i.e. the masses have devolved to mixing their politics with entertainment rather than issues and sober reflection?


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 11:47 AM

I scanned the article this morning and have just finished a more leisurely read. Robomatic's remark that the article is the "Bread and Circuses" one has some merit, in that it emphasises people value being entertained quite highly - I think of many popular films, for example, that are high on spectacle but have almost no storyline. Also the idea that Trump won because he was playing a different game has merit. Both of these go some way towards explaining why the results were what they are. But they don't resolve it for me, because they neglect two factors that are important. There are those who take the ake viewpoint that some voters were completely neglected under the traditional system and they saw this as a way getting some influence. Like it or not, there are significant numbers who thought - and still think - like that. Equally, this article posits that there are some who value entertainment and spectacle so highly they are prepared to risk losing everything - rights, welfare, what have you - in favour of being entertained. Again, such people definitely exist. For example, compulsive gamblers need the thrill of the bet even if it eventually costs them their home. The article seem to be proposing it was these seekers-after-spectacle-at-all-costs that were the deciding factor. That could be right, but I don't see the evidence for it. And making that case can easily be presented as "the voters were just stupid", but in a more sophisticated language.

Don't get me wrong: I am not Trump supporter. But this article seemed to be an "easy" explanation (albeit a more erudite one).


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 01:03 PM

I'm puzzled that some posts are deleted as off-topic when I've been through many threads that wander extensively- and sometimes well-intentionedly into fields that are still reflective of what the OP meant. I am not aware of having any posts deleted for cause with or without explanation, and while I am a liberal (for Alaska), I am not one by comparison with many of the posters in these BS forums. Which is why I find 'em interesting and worth participating in.

I take DMcGs comments as expansive of what I was saying in my post preceding. At the risk of going 'off' topic I'll add my general feelings that there is no perfect system. When a system is applied to government it inevitably involves constraints, and it follows that some people will experience those constraints more than others. Some of those people are murderers, others are jaywalkers, and some don't want to pay taxes. Any system of government has inherent strengths and weaknesses relative to others. The democratic-republican form of government is bound by the weaknesses of its electorate. Often the weaknesses are like plywood, one subsection of the voters is not as weak as most of the others, so the body politic as a whole is strong. Other times the cracks in the system align among groups. Fear is a great source of alignment, and my opinion is that unfortunately in this past election that is exactly what happened.

Another thought going through my mind is that maybe systems of government, or peoples, have lifetimes just as individuals do. The Chinese Dynasties ran through lifetimes. I'm by no means convinced that's the case with the USA, it's just another fear to throw on the fire.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 02:45 PM

Let's hear from Private Willis:

When all night long a chap remains
On sentry-go, to chase monotony
He exercises of his brains,
That is, assuming that he's got any.
Though never nurtured in the lap
Of luxury, yet I admonish you,
I am an intellectual chap,
And think of things that would astonish you.
I often think it's comical – Fal, lal, la!
How Nature always does contrive – Fal, lal, la!
That every boy and every gal
That's born into the world alive
Is either a little Liberal
Or else a little Conservative!

Fal, lal, la!


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 02:56 PM

More to the point regarding President Hump, let's hear from Lord Mountararat:

I don't want to say a thing against brains - I've a great respect for brains - I often wish I had some myself!


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 03:06 PM

I'm minded of one of the most under-rated movies of all time:

"From this day on, the official language of San Marcos will be Swedish. Silence! In addition to that, all citizens will be required to change their underwear every half-hour. Underwear will be worn on the outside so we can check. Furthermore, all children under 16 years old are now... 16 years old!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 04:21 PM

Guys in overalls who watch wrestling and NASCAR are unemployed in the rustbelt. There, life is a whole lot of nothing with little hope. Many have tried the prosperity Christianity and lost even more.

They are Nihilists in Christian clothing.

Their one point of bigoted pride is at least they aren't black.
They are the perfect no nothings for the Trump base.

The only polls Trump wins is among existing Trump supporters.
Every National poll he loses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 07:26 PM

Trump appears to be backing down from his racist ban and has suggested he will revise it next week - sanity has appeared to triumphed fort the time being
For crying out loud - leave Ake to he goose-stepping - he's laid his cards on the table
Who would bother reasoning with Nick Griffin?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 10:32 AM

Well.... I am recovering from surgery..(doing fine, thanks).. and am not at the computer all day long, so have missed some of the ...ummmm... 'discussion'.


I have been sent a basic list of the deletions by a mod, and I see why an attempt was made to steer the thread in a useful direction.... but I also see why it always resembles "herding cats" to get Mudcatters with strong opinions...(are there any other kind left here?).. to stick to a point.

This is one of the awkward situations where almost everyone is sorta 'right', but many are also just using the thread to tout personal views and losing track of what is claimed by the article I referenced.
I am considering asking for ALL posts to be restored, but reserving the option of just flatly closing it if it continues to deteriorate into another "us versus them" thread creep.

Stay tuned... and please refrain from the usual metacomplaints while I decide what to request.... please?


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 10:46 AM

sanity has appeared to triumphed for the time being

Sanity from the Hump administration? - if nothing else, that's a bit premature. Overall, its a contradiction in terms


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Acme
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 11:04 AM

You should perhaps instead post links to the four other presidental-themed running posts where the same exact fights have been waging for weeks. This topic was different and interesting. IMHO.

When I was in high school I played a lot of chess, and was in the habit of viewing events as they might have taken place in the context of the game. Too many good discussions lately fall into a messy version of 52 pickup.

Here is a link to an English translation of the original essay. Pages 15-25 via Google books, you can read it all right there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 11:08 AM

You are making my point, Greg... just the use of "Hump" is excessive and provocative... hold off for awhile..


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Acme
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 11:24 AM

The way Google has the preview set up you can't download that book or just the essay, but I captured screen shots of each page to turn it into a pdf. (Different browsers might have more access to capture it, I'm using Chrome.) If someone wants a copy of that pdf, PM me your email address and I'll attach it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 11:40 AM

I can do the same, ACME... I will peruse the original essay later. My brain & body are in restricted mode right now...

for those who care... I am... *tending* toward asking for (almost) all posts to be restored, with a warning about possible closure, rather than deletions. It ain't easy, and I might get outvoted...


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 03:58 PM

Some posts are now restored...others I'm aware of are merely arguing about the rules ...or contain personal insults... or are not relevant once the flow was changed.

IF the article could lead to positive discussions about how to approach this new administration in this society, we might all learn something.

   I have posted on Mudcat since Nov. 1996, and started... relatively.. very few threads... but I am kinda protective of the few under my byline..


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 05:02 PM

Since January I wrote two anti Ake posts. I regret them both.
He has made us think. There are times he has been a backstop for the left. We are actually fortunate to have a wall to practice against.
I bet we are similar when it comes to separation of church and state, equality of the sexes, one person one vote, free speech, respect for different races, Magna Carta and a round Earth.

We need mutual respect or we can radicalize each other. Trump feels good bullying people. I need to resist that temptation as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 06:08 PM

I have debated Ake also... as well as several other stalwarts- on guns, evolution, astrology, music genres, American culture, language usage, logic, gender and its variations... and no doubt on silly minor themes.... but I try always to debate the reasoning, the facts and the basic conceptual differences.... NOT the character of the person. I discovered that it makes no sense to go at it really hard with those you don't feel are intelligent enough to comprehend your reasoning... all you can do is state- fairly briefly- YOUR point and let it drop. It did take me awhile to get this thru my own head... :>(

Even if you never convince them of anything, it is possible to reach a 'certain respectful tolerance' of your opponent(s).

Now... IF anyone has more to add on the OP article or its relevance, I look forward to it... but not to debate about the rules of debate or to the character flaws of our fellow posters... ok?

(I know... I shouldn't have said this much, but I'm kinda drawing on my 'good guy' credits.)

If we have exhausted the original topic, someone can close it down... but I am currently thinking about other philosophical themes that might bear on the chaotic state of our (the USA) circumstances... pragmatism, utilitarianism... etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 06:14 PM

A medical explanation may also include thyroid problems


Adrenal fatigue can cause a rise in evening cortisol levels that interfere in sleep. Undiagnosed thyroid issues very often lead to adrenal issues. The early stages of adrenal fatigue/insufficiency is usually high cortisol as the body reacts to stress.

Trump admits he only sleeps for four hours.

An irrationality can result from sleep deprivation.

The problem with this diagnosis is, I have never thought Trump was rational.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 06:22 PM

just the use of "Hump" is excessive and provocative..

OK, but Gee whiz, Bill - he was called a great deal worse in the "nicknames" thread........ just sayin'.......


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 07:18 PM

I haven't even opened that one...


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Acme
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 08:16 PM

I'm finishing reading a book that came out in 2016 called The Nix. It's set in 2011, so there is no mention, that I can recall, of Trump. There isn't mention of Obama, either, and much of the action in a flashback features the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago. The book was probably finished and in the editing and publishing process before Trump declared he was running - there are interesting observations about how news and publishing see events as fresh, having a short shelf-life (and there will be standard newspaper editorials that say the same thing, if you look for them). Thing is, the novel was trying to create what appears to be an outlandish situation with a politically powerful yet emotionally volatile character. Who knew someone even worse would come along and make the events in the novel pale in comparison.

The process of passing one text over another, of comparing stories from different authors and different times to bring into focus similarities could give remarkable insight into this modern power broker who was given so much free publicity by all of the media outlets. They no longer need to give equal time and the carnival aspect (going back to the wrestling vs boxing analogy) seemed always to be promoted because in a few weeks this particular event would be stale. Only to have more and more outlandish statements or revelations happen and keep that juggernaut moving.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 09:22 PM

He stated himself that "All press is good press." The whole campaign was like a slow-motion car wreck with everyone in the Press unable to resist watching and 'reporting' his every remark, no matter how trivial.

"passing one text over another, of comparing stories from different authors and different times.." is a way to sort out language with serious content from vague promises & generalizations. Compare an Obama speech on topic A with what Trump said on the same general topic....


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 09:24 PM

well whatever his shortcomings, at least he hasn't settled for being a 'principled opposition'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 09:28 PM

Greg, I think the deal is that if you use a nickname once, the humo(u)r comes across. If you use it ALL the time, it becomes overwhelming. You have a tendency to use derogatory nicknames to the point where it makes people scream.
Just sayin'.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 02:52 AM

I wonder to what extent the checks and balances made it easier to elect Trump, even though they were designed to prevent any one person getting too much power. I can imagine a cohort who are so anti government they would vote for anyone making that claim - and to be fair Obama and many others have done well on the "I am change" ticket. For others the idea of a businessman in charge held attraction so that is a second group. But I suspect the knowlege he would be under near constant observation together with the belief the checks and balances would stop any really outragious actions make him seems a much less risky bet than the utterances alone would suggest. For example the Bill Clinton saga might temper any inclination to grab women.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 09:33 AM

10-4 Joe, but may I draw your attention to "Jom"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 10:02 AM

This bully's tactic backfires when the person targeted doesn't give a shit and everybody else thinks the person's a jerk. Joe's right - it makes me want to scream, but I really, really hate intentional stupidity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 11:19 AM

Well, Joe, if you use a nickname for a politician or other individual not on this forum, there isn't much scope for objection as long as the nickname is not racist, sexist, etc. Politicians in particular are time-honoured targets for ridicule and long may it be so. It tells us that we live in a free country, for one thing. And, while it's not exactly a nickname, I've typed "Jaysus" here hundreds of times and no-one has objected. There may be those who are silently bored by it I suppose. John Major was lampooned by the cartoonist Steve Bell hundreds of times in a particular way, namely as wearing his spotted Y-front underpants outside his trousers à la Superman manqué, and Cameron was depicted hundreds of times with a pink condom on his head. I don't think it made people scream enough to stop buying the Guardian. I'm guilty of occasionally distorting people's pseudonyms here (I'm trying to cut it out), but at least it's not their real names I'm changing for the worse. We all seem to accept "ake" and "Raggy" though if it's someone I dislike that I'm addressing I will do what my mum always did and revert to formality. I knew I was in trouble if she called me "Stephen." I never call akenaton "ake." There are some people I just don't want to get that cosy with. You may have noted that two of us who unashamedly post under our real names are routine targets for aggressive name-distorters. Jim Carroll is Jim, not Jom, Christmas or Mr Carroll. My name is Steve. Not Shaw, Stevie or Mr Shaw (with ot without initial capitals). If you don't want to be friendly, Steve Shaw will do nicely. People have managed to be very stern with me here whilst still calling me Steve, including you. I don't see you mods picking up people for abusing our real names. Here's a little exercise for you. Look at people such as yourself, Acme, DMcG, McGrath and Bill who always address me civilly and always as "Steve." Despite occasional profound areas of disagreement, I find it next impossible to get into mud-wrestling with you. When you target Greg for lampooning Trump's name, just get bored by it and recognise that he's the wrong target.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 12:21 PM

I quite like being 'Sen' on here. I certainly wouldn't scream about it if it became a 'thing'. (I also like Bercow's nickname The Squeaker)
There is far more devastating stuff going on in the world than people calling other people a name.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 12:22 PM

Forgot to add, hope you're recovering well Bill. Best wishes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 12:24 PM

Me too, Bill.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 12:34 PM

Affectionate shortenings and things like that are one thing. It's easy enough to spot when someone is modifying someone's name in order to be aggressive. The point I was trying to make is that it's the kind of behaviour that invites aggression back. I don't often see the mods stamping down on deliberate misuse of chosen or real names (and I reiterate that I'm not innocent). It's a sign of a less than perfect ethos and we'd be better off without it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 01:40 PM

I'm doing pretty well, thank you. Surgery was laproscopic and minimally invasive.... they had to go thru one area of abdominal muscle they hoped to avoid, so it's no lifting 'heavy' (20 lb +) stuff for 3-4 weeks instead of the promised 1... but I can manage that.

As to names... I treat 'Ake' as a simple short form rather than a nick. I forget that he spells Akenaton differently....I also never bothered to type out "The Right Reverend Sir joHn from Hull"

I know that some of what *I* do is affected by time and slow typing skills, but Jeri does have a point about how insulting names lose their effect when the target doesn't react. Still... others do react in various ways to obvious 'insulting nomenclature'. It's just an extra bit of fuel on a fire that is already burning quite well.

-----------------

But to reply to DMcG, who added something to the topic:"
I wonder to what extent the checks and balances made it easier to elect Trump, even though they were designed to prevent any one person getting too much power. I can imagine a cohort who are so anti government they would vote for anyone making that claim...
"

Yes... there was much of that happening. The standard remark was "He speaks plainly and *stands up for what he believes". And THAT was often code for "Obama was too intellectual."
   Did they really assume that he would behave 'better' since he'd be watched so closely? I suppose so... but it hardly negates all the offensive earlier behavior. I'd bet that 30% of his base would have voted for him if he'd been publicly groping women all thru the campaign... just to be voting against "Clinton".
   Now... I mentioned pragmatism as a possible attitude. Remember... when Nixon was shown to be a 'crook', a large % of his based washed their hands of him... though a few just HATED to be 'wrong'. I suspect that if the Russian connection and losing health care and a general increase in obvious mental instability become daily issues, both Republicans in Congress and in the electorate will be willing to see him go... after he gives them tax cuts and the SCOTUS add-on they want.
   Smarter people than me claim that he will never last 4 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 02:18 PM

I can't really see what people have got to complain about with Trump.
before the election he went round acting weird and saying he was going to do mad shit.
now he's going round acting weird and doing mad shit.
as for not lasting four years - that tactic worked pretty well for Thatcher.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 03:49 PM

This guy's going to go the course. When Maggie got in in '79 we all said she'd be gone within months. Days of false hope. He's staying unless someone, somewhere, can pin something terrible on him that we haven't yet heard about. And he may win a second term. Be very afraid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 05:16 PM

i bet you - even if they found bodies in oildrums in the garage- the cia would sort it out for him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 05:58 PM

The CIA is not happy with him... but that's a side issue. My hoped for discussion was about the basic cultural/psychological reasons for his popular appeal... not just your predictions. I am not a betting man... I was not sure Nixon would get re-elected, and I was surprised DT 'won'... and I see various ways he could wear out his welcome early, given his astounding 1st 2 weeks.


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