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3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland

Acme 16 Feb 17 - 12:21 PM
Raggytash 16 Feb 17 - 03:28 PM
Sandra in Sydney 16 Feb 17 - 05:41 PM
olddude 16 Feb 17 - 06:03 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 17 - 06:35 PM
Gutcher 16 Feb 17 - 06:46 PM
Acme 16 Feb 17 - 11:34 PM
meself 17 Feb 17 - 01:23 AM
Thompson 17 Feb 17 - 02:04 AM
Stu 17 Feb 17 - 04:23 AM
Mrrzy 17 Feb 17 - 05:10 PM
Rapparee 17 Feb 17 - 09:52 PM
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Subject: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: Acme
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 12:21 PM

Archaeology story stories make it into the threads every so often, and here is one about a remarkable find.

In what archaeologists are calling the "find of a lifetime," a horde of Late Bronze Age weapons has been discovered at a Scottish construction site. Among the items found is a gold-decorated spearhead, and a 3,000-year-old bronze sword in remarkably good condition.

The artifacts were found during an archaeological evaluation on a field in Carnoustie, Scotland prior to the construction of two of soccer fields. The firm commissioned to do the work, GUARD Archaeology, says the hoard of ancient metalworks is a "rare and internationally significant discovery." The items were found in a pit close to a Bronze Age Settlement currently being excavated by the archaeologists.


And this:

"The earliest Celtic myths often highlight the reflectivity and brilliance of heroic weapons," explained Blair in an interview with the BBC. "Gold decoration was probably added to this bronze spearhead to exalt it both through the material's rarity and its visual impact."


This is going into BS because it isn't strictly a music story (it can be moved later) - but those "myths" the story mentions - is that shorthand for poems, illuminated texts, or songs about those brilliant "heroic weapons?" (The story is picked up from the BBC that doesn't mention the source of those myths either).


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Subject: RE: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 03:28 PM

Acme, Thank you for this thread, brilliant.


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Subject: RE: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 05:41 PM

wow! I've bookmarked the site as there are other interesting archaeological stories there

sandra


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Subject: RE: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: olddude
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:03 PM

I wondered where I lost that


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Subject: RE: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:35 PM

Well you were young and a tad immature then, Dan. We forgive you. the sword is in the post.


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Subject: RE: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: Gutcher
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:46 PM

Anent myths and oral tradition

At one time I had a number of examples of myths/oral tradition having being verified by archeological excavations. As these examples were all memorized and old age now taking its toll alas only two now come to mind

[1] -The uncovering of a near 2000 year old well at a depth of 36ft. below the ground surface.

[2] The excavation of a burial mound in East Fife by Edinburgh University. They claimed that the said mound had never been opened since it had been formed. Local myth had it that there was a hoard of silver under the mound---every piece of metal found was silver. This was folk memory taking us back at least 1000yrs..


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Subject: RE: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: Acme
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 11:34 PM

This find is the sort that allows local historians, folklorists, and others, to examine what they know about a place through songs and stories and see if they can make a connection with the contents of the dig.

My people (in the US Pacific NW) were pioneers in a section of the US that had a long, rich history among the American Indian nations; what stories Indians know of their history were not transferred to what the European pioneers know of the area. There is a schism in the region's history. The thing that is possible in so many areas in the UK is that (I am guessing) people in the area now are many times removed descendants of some of the original land holders. The local repositories of history (churches, universities, museums) may be finally able to say "the song (or poem, or illuminated manuscript) that describes this bright sword happened here" and tell us who the story says was involved. That's a pretty interesting thing to be part of.

What is the oldest song that anyone knows that might fit what is being discovered here?


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Subject: RE: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: meself
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 01:23 AM

The discovery of the remains of a Viking site at L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland was based largely on local folklore - I don't remember if the locals said it was a Viking site, but they regarded it as an ancient settlement.


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Subject: RE: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 02:04 AM

If they're talking about Celtic myths, they're talking about the various story cycles - the Fiannaíocht, the Red Branch Cycle (including Táin Bó Cualainge), the tragedies like The Children of Lir, The Sons of Usna, etc.
These have been kept alive in the oral tradition (béaloideas) and in the writings of the 5th-to-15th-century monks, or the Irish Annals. Lots of stuff about swords and spears and other horror weapons; also, in the Red Branch cycle, lots about chariots which is pooh-poohed by modern scholars because none have been found; it seems not to have occurred to them that the best war chariots were made of basketwork.


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Subject: RE: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: Stu
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 04:23 AM

Wow, that is incredible!


"or the Irish Annals"

There are many surviving Celtic myths across the isles, although the Irish ones are particularly well represented (and great stories too, I love them). The Welsh have a rich canon of ancient writings such as the Mabinogion (which is 11th Century but which inspired the revival of the bardic tradition. At a local level, many Celtic myths survive and even in England there is a strong thread of Celtic myth and legend associated with local sites; here on the fringe of the Peak District there are many Celtic place names and local stories associated with particular sites, from King Arthur and Merlin to the apotropaic heads still seen in stone walls.

I love the idea that a site might have been continuously occupied for 4,000 years and I hope this find will be on display, I'd love to see it. Someone found a 3,000 year-old bronze palstave axe in our village a few years ago, a few yards from a river that still bears it's Celtic name, which along with the local barrows provide evidence of continuous occupation for millennia that gives me a warm fuzzy glow inside ;-)


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Subject: RE: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 05:10 PM

Plus I love the name Anse Aux Meadows. Bilingual much?

Really, too cool!


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Subject: RE: 3,000 yr old bronze sword - Scotland
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 09:52 PM

So much for the local football clubs....


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