Thought for the day, July 5,00

Subject: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 09:35 AM

Seeing a clip of tall ships in New York Harbor yesterday (there is also a thread) reminded me of the time I spent on a brigantine in my teens, sailing up and down the Great Lakes. One unexpected benefit was the ability to understand all those passages in whaling books, Moby Dick, the Patrick O'Brien series, etc., when the captain walks the quarter deck, the mizzens are up, and whatever. Having spent time in the English countryside with eccentric, but very old fashioned, folk, I feel very comfortable in Jane Austen novels; just as, having hiked all over London in university, I can place myself in Dickens novels. I often wonder if this affects one's critical faculties -- if I had spent time in jet fighters, would I appreciate Top Gun? If I happened to spend a week at the Pentagon, would I forever after be addicted to Tom Clancy? I once worked for lawyers, and still think John Grisham is tripe, so maybe it does not carry over too far. But I must admit that I have a hankering to see St. Petersburg, if only to be able to walk the streets with Dostoyevsky's lunatic murderers and prostitutes, and know that if I turn left, I will be able to see down the length of Nevsky Prospect.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: sledge
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 10:06 AM

Peter,

These days youe are just as likely to meet the Mafias murderers and prostitutes in St Petersburgh, wow deja vu.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: IvanB
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 11:47 AM

Peter, I've found that the truly great authors have usually been able to give me a sense of location without my ever having been there. In fact, quite the opposite, my enjoyment of many places has been enhanced by my prior knowledge of stories in which they play a part.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 12:31 PM

Yeah, I think it can go both ways. When we moved back to New England, exploring all of the historical places and doing things like driving, literally, "over the river and through the woods", enhanced our experience of the area so much. Everything we had read came to life for us even more by being there and actually seeing such things as the little red, one-room house in Connecticut where the Continental Congress met; or to see Lafayette's actual signature on a Masonic Lodge charter in Northampton, MA.

My daughter who lives here now, called me last night to marvel about the documentary she watched on the author of "The Perfect Storm" and the making of the movie. She kept saying, "We were there, then, Mom." Made the events all the more real to us as we remember the storm, plus she went to school with a lot of kids who were first generation Americans whose folks were fishermen/women. We had a good time speaking of how grateful we both are to have experienced New England.

Conversly, having grown up in the Wild West, it was very easy for me to imagine myself part of the olf wagon trains, fights with Native Americans, and other trials. When we lived ont eh actual Oregon Trail my kids were always playing at some pioneer story, until Star Wars took over.:-) So...I wonder if they will have holodecks on the first vacation-stations in space where we can all feel a little closer to Luke, Darth, and the rest of the gang?!

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 12:47 PM

Truly great craftsmen, whether in literature, songwriting, graphic arts, et al know when to point out the universal and when to focus on the specific. By pointing out common traits of a place or situation, you can involve people who may not have that exact experience, but who can relate. When you then include the details, you put people in that place or time or situation. An example of a writer who did this is a former Chicagoan, Nelson Algren. His cityscapes resonate for anyone who's spent time in New York, or Philadelphia, or Boston. And if you know Chicago, his ability to really capture the look and feel of the neighborhoods is something at which you can only marvel.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 02:44 PM

Well, Jane Austiun isn't entirely country folkk - the Portmouth chapters of Mansfield Park should feel a bit clearer.

Jane Austin's favourite brother was a sea-captain - maybe someday a sea chest will turn up with a sea story or so written by him, sparked off by letters from his sister about what she was up to...Or maybe some kind soul will write it for him posthumously.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 02:51 PM

Ahh, but I didn't say they were country folk, I said that I spent time in the countryside with old fashioned folk. They were, in fact, genteel upper middle class. (Any reader of Jane would not be offended by punctilious correction). Certainly wouldn't be caught dead with the Portsmouth mob.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 03:09 PM

Dear kind sir, mayhap that some kind soul who will write it for him posthumously is you? Or, our Peter?*BG*

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: Amergin
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 06:28 PM

I find that good well written history books do the same for me, taking me back to other times and places, making me feel as if I was actually there, feeling the anguish of the Irish peasantry during the Famine, feeling the anger of the strikers on Bloody Thursday (which BTW is today), and feeling the sorrows of whole communities falling from a disease no one wanted to admit was real (AIDS). That to me is greatness....

Amergin

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: Amergin
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 06:31 PM

Just a slight continuation of my above post:

That to me is also the true meaning of power.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: bob jr
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 06:51 PM

um i dont know what any of this is about but since amergin bugged me in my last thread i thought i would type something smart assed after thier post um lets see...maybe you should try reading some b. potter so you can know what it feels like to be a rabbit who has lost its mittens might make you lighten up a bit .......

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: Amergin
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 06:55 PM

Rofl.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 07:59 PM

Peter, thank you for a childhood memory I hadn't thought to re-cherish in a while. I will share it here, skip if don't care rather than minding that I ramble, please.

Growing up in West Africa, I spent pretty much every Sunday ages 5-18 at the beach. The beach where we (myself, three older sisters and Dad-but-not-Mom)usually swam was right at a seawall that bordered one side of the canal leading from the sea (well, the Gulf of Guinea) to the port of Abidjan. We used to sit up on the seawall and dad would quiz us kids about ship parts and colors and telling the merchant marine from the military blah blah. Masts and yars and tankers and freighters and once a US helicopter carrier. Couple this with my avid reading of nautical fiction and I would usually outdo my sibs, all 5, 6 or 7 years older that they were... Aah, wonderful times... ramble stops here before it goes on into the teenage memories... like my interpreter job on that helicopter carrier… Peter, thanks again (*LG*)!

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 08:12 PM

Ah, but the thing with Jane Austin is that she would be caught dead with the Portsmouth mob even, though she might find it quite a strain at times. And she clearly found the people around her in the country pretty infuriating much of the time.

Thinking it over, if I had the choice between reading a book about a place or situation I knew in reality, and going to visit a place which I knew through a book, I'd choose the latter. And I don't just mean because it's an adventure going on a trip. The process of building up a mental vision, and then having that confirmed and adjusted by reality - that I think is intrincically more satisfying than seing an author adjust and inevitably distort your own experience.

And both are different fromn the other thing we have to deal with - when a film is made of a book. Some of us come to the book first, and some come to the film and then to the book. And there is the whole phenomenon of "the book of the film" and "the film of the book" - or even "the book of the film of the book".

I don't think Jane Austin would have thought much of all that. I think she'd have enjoyed the Mudcat though. In a pretty scathing way at times.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 08:24 PM

ANy artist should appreciate the sense of being there. I walked through a Roman ampitheatre in Catania, Sicily some years ago and I could almost hear the screams and cheer of the patrons and the contestants. THere was the smell of age and of death. It is the same when I visit Civil War Battlefields. LAst summer, I spent two days at a reenactment in Mass. We camped on grounds that once belonged to John Hancock. It made him a far more real to me than just seeing his flamboyant signature on the Declaration of Independence. By the way, I believe Jane Austin would have been a mudcatter. Now if only we could get Stephen King to become a mudcatter.. Neil

Subject: RE: Thought for the day, July 5,00
From: sledge
Date: 06 Jul 00 - 03:30 AM

Reading various pieces of fiction concerning ancient Egypt heightened my sense of anticipation when at last I at last went there, The reallity though was almost overwhelming, there were moments when I just had to sit down. The travel by river though did evoke a wonderful sense of an Agatha Christie Mystery, especially with such a diverse mix of travelling companions. No Belgians though, Shame.