 sj |
||
|
||
Welsh Folk Song Soc.
|
|
|
Subject: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: sian, west wales Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:19 AM Just thought I'd mention that the programme for the Cymdeithas Alawon Gwerin Cymru / Welsh Folk Song Society residential course is out. I should mention that it's all in Welsh, and it's research oriented, but there are a few 'catters (like me) who might find this right up their street. Its being held in Glan-llyn, Bala, 30 Sept-1 Oct. The main items will be Tegwyn Jones on Humour in the Ballads, Penny Robinson on Songs of Farewell, Joan Wyn Hughes on Using folk songs in schools, and Cassie Meyrick on Fiddle Music from Wales. There's a Noson Werin (folk evening) on the Sat. night, and AGM on Sunday as well. It's 40 ukp residential, 10ukp plus food if non-residential. Dr. Rhiannon Ifans, UCAberystywth is taking the bookings. Her number is 01970 626717. Pass it on ... sian |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: Llanfair Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:23 AM Thanks for that, Sian, unfortunately I am not Welsh speaking, unless they plan to talk about the weather all weekend!! Have a good time, and tell us all about it afterwards. Regards, Bron. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: GUEST,Michael in Swansea Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:37 AM Sounds interesting. I do speak a little Welsh, no way am I fluent, unfortunately I'm singing that weekend. Enjoy, Michael |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: Catrin Date: 22 Aug 00 - 09:26 AM I don't speak welsh either, or I would have seriously considered it. Sigh. Have fun Catrin |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 22 Aug 00 - 10:08 PM Hello, Sian. what kind of Welsh music do you do? I have a friend who introduced me to Welsh music several years ago. (She has two triple harps. It's a long story.) Our little band makes old Welsh dance music a specialty. We just did a performance which included three waltzes, and other pieces called "The Bright Haven" "the Black Herdsman's Delight" "Gwcw Fach" and "Glwgsen." And "Calon Lon," of course Nobody has been able to translate "Glwgsen" yet. Have any suggestions? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: sian, west wales Date: 23 Aug 00 - 04:51 AM What sort of Welsh music do I "do"? Hmmm. As a fairly new 'catter, I've only just recently realized that most (?) others are performers ... and I'm not. I just sit around the house and sing. Sometimes transferring to the local pub. And I really like the historical aspects of folk song. I play a couple of instruments VERY badly ... There's a growing body of Welsh instrumental music now available ... a couple growing out of the Folk Dance Society activities. And W.Folk Song Soc. has published tons of songs, of course ... generally with good historical notes. Wouldn't have thought that Calon Lan would be found in too many folk group repetoires over here (assuming that you're over "there"?) ... and I like your "Calon Lon"! Lon would be "happy, joyous", and Lan is "pure, clean". Glwgsen stumps me too. **However*** (and speaking innocently as someone who has learned Welsh - therefore infinitely fallible) *clwc* means broody or addled, or even broken-sounded. a *iar clwc* is a broody hen. Now, Welsh nouns mutate their initial consonants in certain circumstanses and I'd guess, based on similar words, that you could also call a broody hen, *clwcsen* and, if you speak of The Broody Hen, it would certainly be Y Glwcsen. And in some dialects, it might well undergo some internal mutation giving "Y Glwgsen". After that, it's not uncommon for the Y to get missed out, particularly in printed sources where the printer is non-Welsh speaking. Reading that through, I guess it looks like the word has to jump through a lot of hoops to fit this hypothesis. Maybe Tegwyn will tune in and help. Anyway, if you got it from a published source, let me know, and I'll see what else I can come up with. sian |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: GUEST,Hoot & Fidget Date: 23 Aug 00 - 07:32 AM On August 22 I started a thread about the "Seaman's Hymn" in which I wrote: "I understand that "The Seamen's Hymn" was written by Bert Lloyd for a BBC docudrama and the tune was from a Welsh Hymn. (It wouldn't surprise me if it were Methodist.) Does anyone know the name of the tune?" If any of you kind folks would care to "weigh in" on that thread -- conveniently called "HELP: The Seaman's Hymn" -- I'd be grateful. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: Brian Hoskin Date: 23 Aug 00 - 08:32 AM I'm not a Welsh speaker, but I work with a number of people for whom it is their first language and I'll see if any of them can shed any further light on this word. However, as Sian's posting makes clear, Welsh is a very complex language, not least because markedly different versions of it are spoken in different regions; to the extent where people from Carmarthenshire (where I believe Sian is located) and Ceredigion (where I am) complain that they cannot understand people from North Wales. So, if this word is of a North Wales dialect I doubt my friends will be of much help. Anyway, I'll let you know. Brian |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: sian, west wales Date: 23 Aug 00 - 08:50 AM Hoot & Fidged (???) ... I vaguely remember the thread but didn't find it on a quick search. Remind me? If the words were written for the drama then the only way I could name that tune would be for you to hum a few bars (or provide a midi text or link to some site with the music.) I suspect that simply having the words wouldn't work, as, like most bodies of hymns, there's a narrow set of popular metres. sian |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: sian, west wales Date: 23 Aug 00 - 09:26 AM H&F ... ah! I see the thread now. Yep. OK. A.L.Lloyd. I'll take a look through my Welsh hymnals tonight. sian |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: GUEST,Hoot & Fidget Date: 23 Aug 00 - 10:57 AM "Hoot & Fidged"...I like that. :) I have no idea what it might mean or even imply, but I'm sure it's chock full o' possibilities. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 24 Aug 00 - 12:18 AM Right, Sian, it's Lan not Lon. I have to type fast or my computer disconnects me, hence the errors. It's not folk groups that do the song over here, it's the Welsh-American clubs (often called the St David's Society) and the people at the annual Gymanfa Ganu, which is held every Labor Day (first weekend of September.) I got sucked into this stuff, and I love it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: Margaret V Date: 24 Aug 00 - 12:34 AM Sian, the program sounds really interesting. Maybe you can give us the highlights in Saesneg when it's done. Leeneia, are you per chance on the east coast somewhere? Margaret, in New York |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: sian, west wales Date: 24 Aug 00 - 05:24 AM Leeneia, yeh, I know the NWGGA well. I was the first vice-pres. of WAY ... for my sins? And I still like Calon LOn! Margaret, yes ... I had thought maybe I'd post some notes after the weekend, if anyone is interested. There are usually some really interesting points made, and often trans-national in content. We had Wil Mahon, and Irish American who lectures at UC Aberystwyth, speaking on Tonality in Irish Instrumental Music last year. Sounds really dry, but I thought it was rivetting. Also notable for possibly the first ever use of the expression, ooga chaga ooga chaga in the Society's official lectures (or possibly any Welsh lecture ever?) H&F ... still looking! sian |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: Brian Hoskin Date: 24 Aug 00 - 08:20 AM OK, I asked a Welsh speaking friend of mine about 'Glwgsen'. Unfortunately I didn't get him to write down any of the information, so this is going to be an English version of his explanation. He told me that the word closely resembled the word for clog(s) and that he was aware of a Welsh tune and dance called 'the clog dance' (which is what I should have asked him to write down for me! But it sounded something like 'Dans y Clwgsen').The dance apparently involves dancing over/around a broomstick. The friend I asked is not a 'folkie' of any kind, so his familiarity with this tune and dance suggests that it is commonly known in this vacinity. I hope this is of some use / makes some sense. Brian |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: sian, west wales Date: 24 Aug 00 - 08:32 AM It depends a lot on whether Leeneia took it down herself phonetically - in which case the Dawns y Glocsen makes a LOT of sense - or if it was found in printed form. However, I don't think I've *ever* heard of Glwgsen, or instrumental pieces about hens ... so there's a good chance you're right. Can't remember off-hand if Dawns y Glocsen is the actual dance which I *thought* was performed to a tune of another name ... but I'm probably wrong. Been a while since I did any serious dancing... Good call, Bri. sian |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 Aug 00 - 12:57 AM Nope, it's not Dawns y glocsen. That's a different piece in the same book. that and Glwgsen came from a book called Blodau'r Grug, (the green one) one of three of that title published by the Welsh Folk Dance Society. I do think that the name Glwgsen has something to do with clogging, but the song itself is a sexy little number with a gypsy-sounding cascade of eighth notes in the middle. It sure doesn't sound like clogging! It's a mystery, but a delightful one. (The song was a great hit with the St David's Society. they don't get much sexy stuff at their meetings.) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Welsh Folk Song Soc. From: sian, west wales Date: 25 Aug 00 - 04:24 AM Well, well! I think I actually have this sorted! I phoned Eifion Price who is one of our best-known twmpath fiddlers. He, of course, had Blodau'r Grug to hand. He also has worked with a lot of the original Pat Shaw (a collector) manuscripts. Eifion knows the tune as Glwysen and, given Shaw's writing, it explains where the Glwgsen comes from. It's noted as coming from the collections of Edward Jones, Bardd y Brenin (King's Bard) so this makes it 18th century or older (older probably). *Glwys* means comely or pretty, and by adding the -en it refers to a woman or girl who embodies that quality. As in *sidan* (silk) and *sidanen* (silky maiden)... which is also the name of the tune written by a Welshman for Elizabeth I and which eventually became the Irish Washerwoman. Ta Da! sian |
| Translate Thread |