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Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord

Branwen23 18 Oct 00 - 01:33 PM
mousethief 18 Oct 00 - 01:53 PM
MMario 18 Oct 00 - 02:00 PM
Grab 18 Oct 00 - 02:00 PM
Zebedee 18 Oct 00 - 02:19 PM
Branwen23 18 Oct 00 - 02:27 PM
Bert 18 Oct 00 - 02:29 PM
Branwen23 18 Oct 00 - 02:35 PM
GUEST 06 Sep 10 - 08:28 PM
JohnInKansas 07 Sep 10 - 08:58 PM
Crowhugger 07 Sep 10 - 10:57 PM
GUEST 04 Jan 11 - 12:58 PM
GUEST,leeneia 04 Jan 11 - 02:36 PM
Tootler 04 Jan 11 - 02:49 PM
JohnInKansas 04 Jan 11 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,Grishka 04 Jan 11 - 04:59 PM
JohnInKansas 04 Jan 11 - 05:35 PM
GUEST,leeneia 05 Jan 11 - 11:00 AM
Will Fly 05 Jan 11 - 12:05 PM
Will Fly 05 Jan 11 - 12:07 PM
Bill D 05 Jan 11 - 12:29 PM
Bill D 05 Jan 11 - 12:35 PM
GUEST,leeneia 05 Jan 11 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,Grishka 05 Jan 11 - 12:43 PM
JohnInKansas 06 Jan 11 - 01:40 AM
JohnInKansas 06 Jan 11 - 05:06 AM
Mr Red 06 Jan 11 - 10:19 AM
Bill D 06 Jan 11 - 10:45 AM
GUEST,Grishka 06 Jan 11 - 12:19 PM
GUEST,Graham Paul 29 Mar 11 - 11:56 PM
Joe Offer 30 Mar 11 - 12:40 AM
JohnInKansas 30 Mar 11 - 04:06 AM
JohnInKansas 30 Mar 11 - 06:22 AM
GUEST,Grishka 30 Mar 11 - 03:47 PM
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Subject: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Branwen23
Date: 18 Oct 00 - 01:33 PM

Anyone know how to make a "flat" symbol in Microsoft Word, as would be used to indicate an accidental? Or perhaps know of a free download for a font w/ musical symbols / notation?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


-Branwen-


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Oct 00 - 01:53 PM

Why not use a lower-case b? Or am I missing something important here (not unusual)?

Alex
O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: MMario
Date: 18 Oct 00 - 02:00 PM

most people do use a lower case b - superscript or subscript -

if you want to get fancier - there are a number of musical fonts out on the web that can be downloaded and they have flat signs that can be used. but if the recipiant of your document does not have that font, they will see whatever it has been substituted for....


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Grab
Date: 18 Oct 00 - 02:00 PM

Lower-case 'b' is the normal ASCII version. I've just had a quick flick through the fonts installed on my work machine, and I can't find anything better. I've got a lot more fonts installed on my home machine, so it may be on there - I'll let you know.

Grab.


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Zebedee
Date: 18 Oct 00 - 02:19 PM

The best 'text' font that I've found if you want to use a lower case b is 'Binner Gothic' I think that it's included in Word.

You might also find this thread on musical fonts useful.

I have a musical symbol font somewhere. It's not idea as you have to mess around with subscript/superscript to get the flat symbol in the right place. If you're interested, send me a PM with your email and I'll send it to you.

Zeb


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Branwen23
Date: 18 Oct 00 - 02:27 PM

Actually, I just found a font at download.com that works great! Thanks for the help, guys.


-Branwen-


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Bert
Date: 18 Oct 00 - 02:29 PM

What is it????


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Branwen23
Date: 18 Oct 00 - 02:35 PM

Click here

hope that works.


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 08:28 PM

FIrst you go to microsoft word. Click insert symbol from the insert tab. then you go to the hex code and type 266d and press alt "x" and click insert.


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:58 PM

Guest - In Word, if you type the Unicode HEX code for a character, Alt-X, with your cursor immediately to the right of the last character of the code, will convert it to the character glyph. You can also use Alt-X, with cursor immediately on the right of an unknown glyph, to get the Unicode HEX number for the character, which lets you go to the Unicode Standard to find out the name of the char.

There is NO NEED to go to the Insert Tab, and in fact it's rather dangerous to do so in many cases, since "Insert Symbol" often uses non-Unicode phonystuff that completely f**s your typographer when the book goes to press.

266d is a good (Unicode) char for the "flat" symbol, but just typing 266dAlt-x is all you need to do (in recebt Word versions). And once the conversion to the correct glyph (picture) is made in Word, you usually can copy the individual char to other programs.

Generally, if you have any muaic notation program installed, a "music font" will have been added to your machine; but the font name you need will vary with the program. In Word, in the font selection box (Genral tab in Word 2007), a sample text usually will be shown - in the font - when you click on a font, so it's fairly easy to flip through the fonts you have and find an actual "music" font. (In some older Word versions you have to set up to display "in font.")

Both the Unicode method and the "music font" method can fail if your reader lacks the "music font" you used, or hasn't loaded an "extended font" that has characters outside the ANSI char range; but with current Word/Windows "universal fonts" (sometimes called "looks-like fonts") are common and usually a recognizable char glyph will be substituted if needed.

John


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Crowhugger
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 10:57 PM

My version of Word has a font called "EngraversFont". In the tab where you can Insert|Symbol, I selected that font and created auto-corrects for the signs I use most (sharp, flat, natural, double-sharp, double-flat). The "wrong" text I type is xsx for sharp, xdfx for double-flat, etc. and they correct to the symbol. Works for me.
:-)


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:58 PM

Hi

If you have the font 'Opus' on MS Word then it has signs such as the flat sign (letter B)and the sharp sign as well as most note values. So you can just open another doc and copy and paste them in.

Hope this helps! :)


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 02:36 PM

Guest, thank you very much!

I've just opened Noteworthy Composer and discovered the there is a whole family of Opus fonts which I can use. I selected Opus Chords and used it to enter an elegant B-flat chord symbol on a trial piece.

Now, where can I find out how to use the rest of those Opus Fonts?


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Tootler
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 02:49 PM

MusiQuik and MusiSync are true type fonts that can be used to place music glyphs into a word processed document. They are free to download from here

I have found them useful for various purposes in the past.


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 03:52 PM

In recent Word versions, any TrueType font can be "installed" by simply copying the font into the Fonts folder (Usually at C:\Windows\Fonts).

The fonts there generally should be usable by any programs you have, but some programs may require that the fonts the program uses be in that "program folder" and sometimes in a specific place in the folder. This isn't usually a problem since the fonts will be installed in the right place for the program when the program is installed, and it's usually easy enough to COPY them to the fonts folder for additional more general use.

If you find that you have a "music font" it probably came with some program that you have, or have had, installed on the computer.

Anything you can "make work" is fine if you plan to print a document; but if you send a file using an unusual character to someone, they may not be able to see the funny char without installing the same font you used.

You can get around the problem of people with limited font flexibility by embedding the fonts used in a Word document file. In Office 2007, in Word, Click the cow turd and at the bottom of the dropdown menu click "Word Options." Click the "Save" section, and then put a check mark in the "embed fonts" box. Usually it's best to check both the "do not embed common system fonts" and the "embed only the characters used in the document" boxes, since embedding whole fonts can make for enormous file sizes.

Most earlier Word versions that are likely to be still in use have a similar setting, but I don't have an older one to verify where the setting is located.

Embedding the "chars used" allows you to send Word files using any font on your machine so that they'll display correctly in anyone else's Word, although for someone with a very old Office version you may need to embed the "common system" fonts as well, since the fonts in recent versions contain lots of chars that weren't in fonts with the same names in earlier ones.

Anastasia is one musical font widely used by several popular programs, and would be a much more suitable choice than something "randomly found somewhere" since quite a few people (who do musical stuff) are reasonably likely to have it.

FretsA, FretsB, and FretsC are commonly used for guitar "fret diagrams" so they might be handy to have if you're interested in using them(?).

Almost anything else is likely to be unique to "some program" that "someone" has but that nobody else can read - fine for printing but not-quite-fine for file exchanges, unless you always embed the font at least for chars used.

John


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 04:59 PM

Copying and pasting from the following unicode string may (or may not) work with any modern text system: ♭ ♮ ♯. Try some fonts to make it as pretty as possible.


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 05:35 PM

For those who might be interested in doing it "the right way" in html, the latest Unicode Character Charts are downloadable at http://www.unicode.org/Public/6.0.0/charts/

What you're most like to want, is the CodeCharts.pdf

BE WARNED!!!!

The charts are in a SINGLE pdf document of 77,033 KB, 1,923 pages. Download it when you have time.

The PDF is "searchable" and my search for "Music" (which returns "musical" as well) found a rather sparse set of Unicode musical chars – unless you're into Balanese music.

To post a character using the hex code, type &#Xhhhh; where hhhh is the hex code number.

Musical symbols Found (Hex codes at left)
2669     ♩     QUARTER NOTE = crotchet
266A     ♪     EIGHTH NOTE = quaver
266B     ♫     BEAMED EIGHTH NOTES = beamed quavers
266C     ♬     BEAMED SIXTEENTH NOTES = beamed semiquavers
266D     ♭     MUSIC FLAT SIGN
266E     ♮     MUSIC NATURAL SIGN
266F     ♯     MUSIC SHARP SIGN
Musical symbols for notes
1861     ᡡ     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL DONG
1862     ᡢ     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL DENG
1863     ᡣ     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL DUNG
1864     ᡤ     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL DANG
1B65     ᭥     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL DANG SURANG
1B66     ᭦     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL DING
1B67     ᭧     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL DAENG
1868     ᡘ     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL DEUNG
1869     ᡩ     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL DAING
1B6A     ᭪     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL DANG GEDE
Musical symbols
1B74     ᭴     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL RIGHT-HAND OPEN DUG
1B75     ᭵     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL RIGHT-HAND OPEN DAG
1B76     ᭶     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL RIGHT-HAND CLOSEDTUK
1B77     ᭷     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL RIGHT-HAND CLOSEDTAK
1878     ᡸ     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL LEFT-HAND OPEN PANG
1879     ᡹     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL LEFT-HAND OPEN PUNG
187A     ᡺     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL LEFT-HAND CLOSED PLAK
1878     ᡸ     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL LEFT-HAND CLOSED PLUK
1B7C     ᭼     BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL LEFT-HAND OPEN PING

It's quite possible that most people will see mostly "junk" for the Balinese Music Symbols. I'd suggest not being concerned unless you really need to use them.

John


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 11:00 AM

Ten years after the first request, I have the answer.

In Word, select the front Opus Chords. For a flat sign, type a b. For a 7th chord, type a 7. Both these characters will be in superscript and will look right for chord notation. If you hit the ;, it will type 'omit,' which I suppose means 'Don't play anything.'

Apparently we are supposed to use Opus Chords for chords only. But I wonder how to type B-flat?


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:05 PM

Apparently we are supposed to use Opus Chords for chords only. But I wonder how to type B-flat?

Just a thought: try typing upper-case B followed by lower-case b in Opus Chords. Most of these musical fonts usually only use the lower-case set for symbols - upper-case stay as letters.

Try it and see. :-)


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:07 PM

Just checked it - works on my Mac Book Pro.


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:29 PM



I did that using this little file for Windows


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:35 PM

I resorted to that program because, although I can use alt + various codes for many other symbols, it doesn't work when you need to add a letter to the code...in this case alt + 266D


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:37 PM

tres charmant!


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:43 PM

The Unicode.org has defined a lot more music stuff, but present-day fonts don't support it yet. In a couple of years we may be using it to post tunes.

Summary of the font topic:

Opus, Maestro, and similar fonts use a nonstandard ("proprietary") assignment of glyphs to bytes. This means that if you enter something using Opus and subsequently change its font to, say, Times, you will see funny characters. The main disadvantage of this method is that whenever someone tries to open such a .doc on a computer on which the font is not installed, Word will use another font instead and consequently display and print rubbish.

The "Unicode method" works with standard fonts, provided they contain the glyphs in question. A font like "Lucida Sans Unicode" does the job in our ♭-♮-♯ case and is found on any modern Windows computer. If you change fonts from one standard font to another, you will see either similar glyphs or blank rectangles signifying "glyph not there".

To post at Mudcat, never ever use a proprietary font (even if you know how to), otherwise most readers will see rubbish! In particular, you must not copy-and-paste from a .doc using such a font into the Mudcat entrybox. ♭ ♮ ♯ etc. is the way to do it properly, as you know.


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 01:40 AM

it doesn't work when you need to add a letter to the code...in this case alt + 266D

It is understood that the codes that include a letter, and generally any with four digits, are HEX NUMBERS? To use the Alt-Numpad method you must use the DECIMAL value for the character and NOT the HEXADECIMAL value.

The HEX numerals are 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F

corresponding to

DECIMAL numbers 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

10 in HEX is 16 in decimal notation.

100 in HEX is 162 or 256 in decimal notation.

1000 in HEX is 163 or 4,096

266D converts to decimal notation as

(2 x 163) + (6 x 162) + (6 x 16) + 13 or

8,192 + 1,536 + 96 + 13 or

9,837

The code ♭ gives the character ♭

The code &#X266D gives the character ♭

The Alt-Numpad method generally works only for decimal codes less than 256, although sometimes 4 DECIMAL digits will work in recent Word. In my Word 2007 Alt-Numpad 9837 inserts the char for the flat sign in the document, but it may not work in earlier Word versions and it is NOT RECOMENDED by Microsoft for higher numbered characters.

Thus far, even for most recent Office versions, Alt-NumPad seems to work only up through four digits (up to 9999) which is Hex 270F, so "higher numbered" characters are out of reach for the method.

In Word, typing the HEX number and immediately using Alt-X should always work if your computer has a font that includes the character at that number.

John


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 05:06 AM

Fonts that Ship with Different Versions of Office is Microsoft's list of what fonts you should find installed if you have a version of Office 2000 or later. (Office 2000, Office 2002, Office 2003, or Office 2007). All of these versions come with the "Arial Unicode MS" font which is a full Unicode font containing all the characters defined by the Unicode 2.0 spec.

The Office XP version is not mentioned, but elsewhere at Microsoft it is asserted that Arial Unicode MS is automatically installed if you happen to have that version.

If you find "Arial MS Unicode" it should contain all the characters defined by the Unicode 2.0 spec. (I did confirm that the last char shown is at HEX FFFD, which agrees with the Unicode 6.0 basic char tables mentioned earlier, but I didn't count all 65,533 characters to make sure they were all there.

Because of the size of the full Unicode fonts, some versions may not install it automatically, so if you have an Office version that the list says should have it, and it doesn't appear in your font list, you may need to "turn it on" in order to use it. You can find Microsoft's instructions for installing the full Unicode font in versions where it might be needed at Installing the Universal Unicode Font.

As long as you have any font on your computer that contains the character you "type" it should display in Word.

In my Office 2007 Word, with Times New Roman as my usual font, when I type 266D and hit Alt-X I get a ♭ but the font shown for the character is "MS Mincho." Char Map confirms that the flat character is in the MS Mincho font, but it's a generally ugly font so if I want a prettier one I can change it back to Arial Unicode MS. (Office generally will avoid using the Universal font if the char is in another one on your computer.)

For most users, the only time you really must use the Arial Unicode MS font is if you need multi-language support in Access, since Access is only capable of using one font at a time.

In all versions of Word, you can type 266D and Alt-x to switch it to the ♭ glyph.

In some recent versions of Word you can use the decimal equivalent with the Alt-NumPad method to insert the character. With NumLock turned on, hold down the Alt key and type 9837 on the NumberPad to get ♭.

In nearly all cases, if you use the correct character number, entered with the correct method, you should not require any add-on fonts to print a ♭.

Nearly all other "legitimate" uses for "musical characters" require the use of a scoring program that should include it's own program-specific font; and few of the programs I've seen work very well with anything other than the fonts provided with the program.

John


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 10:19 AM

Why mess around. Lower case "b" in superscript and italics. you can do it in any font. And if you stick to Arial just about anyone you send it to will see it as you see it.
Fancy fonts only work if the machine at the other end recognises them.
Send as PDF then no problem.


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 10:45 AM

And we can singE♭min our posts with a little workC♯dim.

(I use programs like the one I noted, instead of trying to gain a total understanding of the hex-decimal rules & concepts that you post, John. I am glad to see the information here, as it allows me a perspective on why things work...or do not work. But I am reminded of the motto of a software company I was associated with for awhile. We were told not to 'explain' the product too deeply, because "Customers don't want ¼" drill bits... they want ¼" holes!")

I made the mistake of trying to explain the concept of a Pert Chart to a customer one day...until he informed me, "I don't read those things, I just want it drawn right for those who do read it."


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:19 PM

You mean ¼" holes, spelled ¼. And what would that be in millimeters?

As I mentioned on 04 Jan 11 - 04:59 PM, copy-and-paste is the easiest method, which also works with most internet dialogs (those using UTF-8). In Mudcat, alas, we have to do it the hard way.

There are free tools available that are more comfortable than the one mentioned by Bill D. I use one programmed by a friend of mine.


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Subject: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: GUEST,Graham Paul
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 11:56 PM

The Microsoft Word font "Arial Unicode MS" has a musical flat sign, character code 266D. Choose the "Insert" tab (Word 2007), then "Symbol", choose the Arial Unicode MS font, then enter 266D in the Character Code field near the bottom right, then click Insert.


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 12:40 AM

¾


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 04:06 AM



























Four additional glyphs in this Unicode Chart section don't preview correctly, but all of the above show in my proof preview.

John


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 06:22 AM

There are some additional music symbols in the Unicode Chart for Hexadecimal Character Codes between 1D100 and 1D1FF, but this range is NOT INCLUDED in any of the Microsoft Unicode Fonts and preview here indicates that NONE WILL POST LEGIBLY even if properly coded.

It's unlikely that a font anyone has on their computer would use the Unicode char coding, but would "translate" the music glyphs as replacements for normal alphabetic chars in an old-fashioned code page.

With an expanded font table installed, some programs could use these characters to display a music score. In principal you probably could "type a score" in Word although it would be "teedjus" at best for anything of more than trivial complexity.

Html specifically lacks the formatting features necessary to control vertical position and overtyping/overlay of chars needed for scores (there's not even an "array" or "displace" tag usable for individual characters) so the mere theoretical existence of the characters does not offer the possibility of posting scores in html here.

The HEX CODE for the semihemidemisemiquaver that Joe asked for, either above here or in another similar thread, is 𝅘𝅥𝅲 but that charnum doesn't display here or in Office programs where I've tried it, and it's not in any of the Unicode Fonts that come with recent Windows.

Note that Unicode is NOT INTENDED JUST FOR HTML, and other programs can use it to do more things. Html IS INTENDED to incorporate Unicode character coding for the things it can do; but html isn't intended to be a full-blown publishing program.

HEX 1D164 = 1x164+13x163+1x162+6x16+4

              = 65,536 + 13x4,096 + 256 + 2x16 + 4 = 119044 DECIMAL

[Note: Manual numerical calculation only casually checked. The conversion I usually use - in Word - crashes at HEX FFFE in 32 bit Windows.]

I dont' think that decimal charnum will work in the NumPad method in your Word, and it wouldn't matter here if it did.

John


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Subject: RE: Help: how to make a 'flat' sign in MSWord
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 30 Mar 11 - 03:47 PM

See here for the tool I mentioned, for producing any normal (plane-one) character pasting into Mudcat (checkbox checked) or into other programmes or websites (checkbox unchecked).

John, unfortunately Unicode has quite a number of logical flaws, and so has HTML. If the gods wanted to give us a universal standard for editing and sharing sheet music without having to resort to pixel images, they would not use an extention of Unicode, but something like ABC, e.g. imbeddable into HTML code so that browsers would make black dots out of it. That is not a technical problem - plugins can do it right now - but one of standardization.

Anyway, those gods don't think any serious person wants to read sheet music.


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