Origins: Arky's Toast

Subject: Maypole to Mistletoe
From: Glen in Gloucestershire
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 05:15 PM

Hello, it's the singing postman again!

I'm looking for some words from a song I used to sing years ago. "We'll drink to the downfall of Tyrants "

I originally found it on a LP called "From Maypole to Mistletoe" - artists unknown. Now sadly lost from my collection.

This LP also had a song "The old half moon to the rising sun" on it. A really cracking song which I would also like the words for.

I have heard that this recording is now re-released on CD. Can anybody come up with the words/and or where I can source the new CD

Many thanks - Glen.

Subject: Lyr Add: ARKY'S TOAST
From: radriano
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 07:19 PM

"From Maypole to Mistletoe" is a wonderful LP. I transcribed both songs. They both have the title of "Arky's Toast." Arky's Toast is listed as being in Digitrad but nothing comes up when you try to access the lyrics. So, here are my transcriptions. There were some phrases I couldn't understand so there are some blank spots.


ARKY'S TOAST

We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants, we'll drink to Christ the Lord
We'll drink to the twelve apostles that preached his holy word
We'll drink to the Saints and martyrs in the dismal days of yore
And whenever our glasses are empty, we'll remember one saint more
And whenever our glasses are empty, we'll remember one saint more

We'll drink a health to the King, me boys, we'll drink a health to the Queen
We'll drink to the royal princes wherever they are seen
We'll drink to the dukes and duchesses and all the loyal men
And whenever our glasses are empty, we will fill them up again
And whenever our glasses are empty, we will fill them up again

And now we'll drink to the ladies, we'll drink to all their charms
We'll drink to the pleasures that we find when we are in their arms
We'll hold them very tight, me boys, but we will make it clear
It's goodbye on the day when they do say they will keep us from our beer
It's goodbye on the day when they do say they will keep us from our beer

We'll drink to the Master and Mistress at their glorious harvest feast
We'll raise our glasses high, me boys, to the strength of malt and yeast
We'll drink a health to the landlord and his beer so strong and fine
And we hope that he forgets to shout when it comes to closing time
And we hope that he forgets to shout when it comes to closing time

ARKY'S TOAST

In summertime, beneath the sun, when larks are singing sweet
We'll work our best til day is done, then old friends we will greet

Let's hope that we shall meet again, and drink in social glasses
And our toast be to Charleworth's men and Charleworth's bonnie lasses

Chorus:
And so we'll walk that dusty road
That's the longest in the land
From the old half-moon, to the rising sun
With our pint-pots in our hands

When soon a-late we reach the coast on life's rough ocean driven
May we rejoice

Give us strong drink until we think, when we're sinking in despair
And liquor good to fire our blood when depressed with grief and care

Chorus

So let us booze and deep carouse with bumpers flowing o'er
Till we forget our loves and debts and mind our grief no more

Then sing a round when shearin's done and drinking strong ale brown
With the half-moon rising in the sky and the red sun going down

Hope this helps you, Glen

Radriano

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: nutty
Date: 02 Nov 00 - 07:45 PM

Arky's Toast were/are a group I've been trying to get information on them for quite a while . Maypoles to Mistletoe was a production put together by Martyn Wyndham Reed

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:18 AM

The DT transcription is here:  Arky's Toast

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: radriano
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 11:13 AM

How'd you do that, Malcolm?

I brought up the alphabetical list of song titles and when I clicked on Arky's Toast it told me that I searched incorrectly.

The last verse about Morris dancers is not on "Maypole to Mistletoe" - perhaps it was added later.


Radriano

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 11:44 AM

radriano,
by entering 'tyrants'in the search box, e.g.. But don't ask me why one method works and the other not, I just do not know. Soemtimes I only have found a song your way which I hadn't been able to locate via search box. I now use often both methods, but even if both fail, the song might still be in the DT.

Wolfgang (puzzled)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: MMario
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 02:44 PM

tune? Anyone have the tune? abc, midi, scanned?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 06:25 AM

Both songs were written by a Mr (Arkie) Arkright who from what I can remember was the landlord of one of the pubs in Charlwood which is a village in Surrey just on the edge of Gatwick airport. It should be "Charlwood" not "Charleworth" in the song lyrics.

The "Old Half Moon" and "The Rising Sun" are the village pubs (I can't remember which belonged to Arkie) which makes sense of the chorus in the second song.

For many years there was a wonderful folk club at Charlwood. It was organised by Joan Gifford (who is now involved with Wivenhoe F/C in Essex) and the residents included the group Arkies Toast and Martin Wyndham-Read.

The group Arkies Toast have now split up, but were an a cappella male trio (they were originally all in the police force) who sang some wonderful songs including Mr Arkwright's ones. One ex-member, Colin Gates, was still running a singaround in Charlwood recently (like the song it kept moving from one pub to the other). Another ex-member, Jim, sings with the a cappella group "Hat Trick".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 06:35 AM

Hell of a distance for a 'pub crawl'! Isn't "The Rising Sun" in New Orleans ?
There were two 'Rising Sun's on the main road from Monmouth to Gloucester, but the one at Monmouth was re-named The Mayhill some years ago, and the one at Edge End has been re-named recently.

Nigel

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 03:30 PM

tune(s)?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: MMario
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 10:59 AM

refresh - tunes anyone?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 12:28 PM

I can sing the choruses, MMario, but the verses might be more of a problem. Anyway as already said it's on "Maypoles to Mistletoe" - I'm sure that someone must have a copy. I'll try and contact Martin, Colin, or Jim.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 09:30 PM

Both songs are on the Arky's Toast LP on the'Sweet Folk All' label.
The Maypoles To Mistletoe CD is quite different from the LP. Neither song is on it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyran
From: Stewie
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 01:29 AM

The 'Maypoles To Mistletoe' LP that I have is on the Trailer label [LER 2092] - one of those labels in the clutches of the dreaded Bulmer.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 05:29 AM

I believe the 'Sweet Folk All' label is also in Bulmer's clutches.

Subject: RE: Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 06:26 AM

Has Joe Stead sold it then ?

Subject: RE: Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 03 - 05:32 AM

My copy of the Arky's Toast LP is on the Greenwich Village label, and a very fine (if uneven) album it is too

I remember Joe Stead's "Sweet Folk & Country" label, but can't remember many good LPs on its roster. Pretty feeble, the ones I've heard

Subject: RE: Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: MMario
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 03:42 PM

still trying to get a tune in a postable form.

Subject: RE: Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:11 AM

MMario - I have just spoken to Colin Gates who was a member of the group ARKY'S TOAST. He told me that both this song and Moon to the Sun were each based on about one verse from the late 'Arky' Standing, the tune and the rest of the words being written by Colin, Jim, and Trevor.

Good new, Colin has promised to copy the two songs onto a cassette from the record and post it to me. If you like I could make a WAV file of a verse of each song and e-mail them to you. I'll let you know when I've got the file ready.

Subject: RE: Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:31 AM

'tis well. Even better - if you can find someone in your neck o' the woods who could transcirbe the tunes????

Subject: RE: Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:57 AM

Arky's Toast sang in close harmony, so one of the problems might be in sorting out exactly which line is the melody ! While I probably could produce a notation, my skills are such that it might take a long time. WAV or MP3 files might be the fastest in the short term. If anyone wants to convert it/them to "Dots", ABC, or MIDI - please volunteer.

Subject: RE: Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 12:13 PM

yes please do volunteer! (I don't *ASK* people to do this - I know it's a lot of work. But those of you who CAN do it - it certainbly helps with some of the obscure tunes!)

Subject: RE: Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: Marje
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 12:38 PM

I know the tune of the chorus of the "Moon to the Sun" but can't remember the verse. I could write it down in staff notation on Noteworthy if that's any use to anyone, but I'd need to get the verse tune too to make it worth doing.

My computer skills are considerably less than my musical ones, and I am a bit hazy about how anyone could send me a tune file. I think I can play WAV files as I seem to have some in the system, but am not sure about MP3s. If Real Player will play them, that should be OK.

So if anyone can send me a sound file of the whole thing, e-mail me at [e-mail] and I'll try to write it down. Then you'll have to tell me what to do with it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 04:28 AM

OK - just waiting for the tape now - BTW Colin still lives in the village of Charlwood and runs a session on the 2nd Monday of the month in "The Half Moon" referred to in the song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 05:54 AM

Just refreshed the thread to say that we are in the middle of a postal strike over here at the minute, so it may be a time before I receive the tape from Colin. There is a possibility that I might get down to Charlwood next Monday, in which case I could probably pick a copy up. Meanwhile, I'm trying to produce a score/midi file from memory.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 11:39 AM

Just so that MMario does not feel lonely, "I would like the tune too!"
JohnB

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 12:03 PM

john - with luck it will get posted.

Subject: Tune Add: ARKY'S TOAST
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 08 Nov 03 - 06:41 AM

Well I've got the tape from Colin, I have reproduced his accompanying letter verbatim.

Please find enclosed, as promised a tape of the songs "Arky's Toast" and "From the Old Half Moon to the Rising Sun". I have also included "God save our Squire" otherwise known as "Arky's People". All three were written by me around 1968 using scraps of verse and stories I had collected from Mr Arky Standing during the 1950's and 1960's.

Arky was born in the village of Charlwood in 1885 and had amassed a great deal of snippets of verse and folklore etc. Throughout most of his life, he could be found every night, in the corner seat at either the "Rising Sun" or "The Half Moon" where he sang, recited or just talked about "the old days" to anyone who happened to be present.

Jim James wrote the tunes for all three songs, which as you know, were sung by the group "Arky's Toast". The group (still to be heard on the odd occasion in "The Rising Sun" and "The Half Moon") comprised myself, Jim James and Trevor Notton.

The songs "Arky's Toast" and "Moon to the Sun" were first published on the L.P. "Maypoles to Mistetoe" in 1975 (Trailer LER 2092), and again, together with the song "Arky's People" on the L.P. "From the Half Moon to the Rising Sun" in 1979 (GVR212).

I was never quite sure about the origins of Arky's verse. When asked if he had written a particular piece, his usual response was "Well, yes, most of it, but an old gentleman came in 'ere about 60 year ago and he said it - I dunno who he was, but 'e said it, 'e did".

The songs are still being sung in the village by the group "One Knight only" as well as "Arky's Toast" when we get together.

I hope this clears up some of the debate and I am glad people are still interested. I'm sure old Arky would also be pleased if he knew that his "corner seat sessions" were still being talked about.

Cheers, Colin Gates.


I've actually managed to notate "Arky's Toast" and produce a Midi file which seems to tally with the recording, and here it is.

MIDI file: arky.mid

Timebase: 384

TimeSig: 3/4 96 8

Tempo: 100 (600000 microsec/crotchet)

Name: Track 2

Key: F

Start

0960 1 60 064 0172 0 60 064 0020 1 65 064 0256 0 65 064 0032 1 65 064 0084 0 65 064 0012 1 65 064 0172 0 65 064 0020 1 65 064 0172 0 65 064 0020 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 67 064 0344 0 67 064 0424 1 60 064 0172 0 60 064 0020 1 72 064 0344 0 72 064 0040 1 72 064 0172 0 72 064 0020 1 70 064 0344 0 70 064 0040 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 67 064 0344 0 67 064 0616 1 60 064 0172 0 60 064 0020 1 65 064 0256 0 65 064 0032 1 65 064 0084 0 65 064 0012 1 65 064 0172 0 65 064 0020 1 65 064 0172 0 65 064 0020 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 67 064 0344 0 67 064 0424 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 67 064 0344 0 67 064 0040 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 62 064 0172 0 62 064 0020 1 64 064 0172 0 64 064 0020 1 65 064 0172 0 65 064 0020 1 64 064 0344 0 64 064 0616 1 60 064 0172 0 60 064 0020 1 72 064 0256 0 72 064 0032 1 72 064 0084 0 72 064 0012 1 72 064 0172 0 72 064 0020 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 70 064 0172 0 70 064 0020 1 69 064 0344 0 69 064 0040 1 70 064 0172 0 70 064 0020 1 72 064 0344 0 72 064 0040 1 72 064 0172 0 72 064 0020 1 74 064 0344 0 74 064 0040 1 72 064 0172 0 72 064 0020 1 70 064 0344 0 70 064 0040 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 67 064 0344 0 67 064 0040 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 70 064 0172 0 70 064 0020 1 72 064 0172 0 72 064 0020 1 70 064 0172 0 70 064 0020 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 65 064 0172 0 65 064 0020 1 64 064 0172 0 64 064 0020 1 62 064 0172 0 62 064 0020 1 60 064 0172 0 60 064 0020 1 65 064 0344 0 65 064 0040 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 72 064 0172 0 72 064 0020 1 70 064 0172 0 70 064 0020 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 65 064 0172 0 65 064 0020 1 67 064 0344 0 67 064 0040 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 65 064 0344 0 65 064 0424 1 72 064 0172 0 72 064 0020 1 70 064 0172 0 70 064 0020 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 65 064 0172 0 65 064 0020 1 64 064 0172 0 64 064 0020 1 62 064 0172 0 62 064 0020 1 60 064 0172 0 60 064 0020 1 65 064 0344 0 65 064 0040 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 72 064 0172 0 72 064 0020 1 70 064 0172 0 70 064 0020 1 69 064 0172 0 69 064 0020 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 65 064 0172 0 65 064 0020 1 67 064 0344 0 67 064 0040 1 67 064 0172 0 67 064 0020 1 65 064 0688 0 65 064

End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the latest version of MIDItext and get instructions on how to use it click here         

ABC format:

X:1

T:Track 2

M:3/4

Q:1/4=100

K:F

C6|F3/2F/2FFGA|GG4C|c2cB2A|G5C|F3/2F/2FFGA|

GG4G|G2GDEF|E5C|c3/2c/2cGAB|A2Bc2c|d2cB2A|

G2ABcB|AGFEDC|F2GAcB|AGFG2G|F4cB|AGFEDC|F2GAcB|

AGFG2G|F7/2||

I'll try and get round to posting the words to "Arky's People" soon and also will either notate or send WAV/MP3 files to our notation volunteer ASAP.

Dave

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Nov 03 - 07:03 AM

Refresh - for MMARIO and JohnB - I'll try and get the other tunes onto MP3 and send them to MARJE.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: MMario
Date: 10 Nov 03 - 09:01 AM

a hearty "THANK YOU" to all involved!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: CapriUni
Date: 10 Nov 03 - 09:02 AM

Thank you, Dave, for the tune and the letter (It's a wonderful story)

I love Mudcat. Some questions get answered in a few minutes, and even though some, such as this one, can take several years, the answer comes eventually.

If anyone wants to here the tune right now, and does have the Mudcat Text2Midi program on their computer, you can copy and paste this bit (the same as Dave posted, but without the extra line breaks):

X:1
T:Track 2
M:3/4
Q:1/4=100
K:F
C6|F3/2F/2FFGA|GG4C|c2cB2A|G5C|F3/2F/2FFGA|
GG4G|G2GDEF|E5C|c3/2c/2cGAB|A2Bc2c|d2cB2A|
G2ABcB|AGFEDC|F2GAcB|AGFG2G|F4cB|AGFEDC|F2GAcB|
AGFG2G|F7/2||

Into the text window at Concertina.Net and click on "Submit". It's important, howeveer, to turn off any pop-up blockers you have on, or it won't work.

(off to do that now!)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Nov 03 - 01:01 PM

I tried using the Concertina.Net converter, and I seem to get missing note/rest in bars 5 and 9.

Bar 5 should start with a dotted crotchet (1/4) on G followed by a quaver (1/8) rest, then comes the quaver (1/8) on bottom C.
Bar 9 is similiar except that the dotted crotchet (1/4) is on E. In both cases the dotted crotchet and rest appear to be missing.

The MIDI file which I get back from TEXT-MID is fine and sounds the same as the original MIDI.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 10 Nov 03 - 01:09 PM

This better? BTW - just WHICH song is this, anyway? (I get easily confused...)

X:1
T:Track two
M:3/4
Q:1/4=100
K:F
C|F3/2F/2FFGA|GG4C|c2cB2A|G3z2C|F3/2F/2FFGA|
GG4G|G2GDEF|E3z2C|c3/2c/2cGAB|A2Bc2c|d2cB2A|
G2ABcB|AGFEDC|F2GAcB|AGFG2G|F4cB|AGFEDC|F2GAcB|
AGFG2G|F7/2||

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Nov 03 - 01:23 PM

Whoops the missing rests are crotchets (1/4). The MIDI plays alright on the Concertina.Net site, except that the first note should be a quaver (1/8). If you use TEXT-MIDI you should get the correct version.

MMario - This is "We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants". The last line is repeated and the last word of the third line is stretched over the ascending three notes. If you really need the words under the dots, I could always e-mail you a PDF file.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: MMario
Date: 10 Nov 03 - 01:32 PM

That should do me Dave! Thank you again!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrant
From: GUEST,Arky's great nephew
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 09:50 AM

Hi I just wanted to say I'm glad that Arky is still remembered for what he did best, as a young man arky travelled to Canada where he worked in the shipyards until an unfortunate accident involving several tonnes of steel falling on his legs. He never walked properly again, but that did not stop him getting to his two locals 'The Half Moon' and 'The Rising Sun'. The actual distance between these two pubs is about 150 yards, but as with most of Arky's stories the actual facts tended to get embellished:


'And so we'll walk the longest road,
That's the longest in the land,
From the old Half Moon to the Rising Sun,
With our pint pots in our hand.'

Arky Standing 1967

The record 'From the Half Moon to the Rising Sun' was released in May 1979 on the Greenwich Village label.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants
From: Felipa
Date: 21 Jun 21 - 06:47 PM

some info from Casey wo sang Arky's Toast on the 21 June 2021 Mudcat Singaround:

ARKY’S TOAST (ONE SAINT MORE)

Written by a band of the same name. Based on an actual toast that one of their friends used to propose. On their album “Maypoles to Mistletoe.”

Jinkey Wells fiddle player with the Bampton (in-the-Bush) Morris side in Oxfordshire.
William Kimber, English Anglo concertina player and Morris dancer who played a key role in the twentieth century revival of Morris Dancing

[referring to a verse in the Digital traditional transcription]
https://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=329

We'll drink to John O'Gaunt, me boys,
We'll drink to Jinkey Wells.
We'll drink to William Kimber,
Who was buried in his bells.
We'll drink to all the Morris folk,
Wherever they may be.
And we're hoping that they dance as well,
When they're half as drunk as we.
And we're hoping that they dance as well,
When they're half as drunk as we.

Subject: RE: Origin:We'll drink to the downfall of tyrants/Arky
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jun 21 - 09:34 PM

Here's a recording of "Arky's Toast" by a group called Wild Oats:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hotMw70-6M

Subject: RE: Origins: Arky's Toast
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jun 21 - 09:47 PM

I knew Wild Oats,sadly Derek and Viva Smith, of Wild Oats have passed on. I also gigged at the folk club, that was held in one of the pubs mentioned in felipas post, it was a long time ago.
Martyn Wyndham Read might be the best person to contact for info