 sj |
||
|
||
BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans
|
|
|
Subject: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jan 01 - 12:25 PM OK. We've had some good rants, uproars, and points made in Part I. Maybe someone even wants to do some more and will start another thread and it will be one approach to a Part II. But this is the alternative Part II thread. The question here is, "Now, whaddya gonna DO about it?" Where and what is YOUR action going to be? And how can we support one another? ~Susan |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Bert Date: 23 Jan 01 - 12:28 PM You're ON WYSI me luv, Who do we write to? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jan 01 - 12:30 PM What do you want to write, Bert? ~Whoopi |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Bert Date: 23 Jan 01 - 12:33 PM What I said in the previous thread. That president calling for a "National Day of Prayer" is unconstitutional. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jan 01 - 12:47 PM OK, Bert, let's make a plan. It has to be a perfect plan for YOU, so I can't give it to you. But I can help you think one up. First, who do you know, who actually listens to you, on the side opposing yours? What do you like about them, and them about you? What did you discuss with them, last? If more than one person comes to mind on this, who do you think among them has the greater influence in their circles? ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Troll Date: 23 Jan 01 - 01:01 PM OK, so it's unconstitutional. So what. It's over. Why don't we concentrate our energies on something with a little more substance. We have global warming, the development of the wildlife reserve in Alaska, the energy shortage in California (which could affect all of us), a situation in the Middle-east which could blow up at any time, and India and Pakistan, both with nuclear capability, and snarling at each others borders. And you're upset because Bush called for a National Day of Prayer and Thanksgiving. This reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw once: Protect the Easily Offended. Ban Everything!" troll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jan 01 - 01:07 PM Troll, as a friend, I ask... PLEASE help this thread stay on topic. It will be hard enough, even with help, for it to do that. When we start to plan action... what matters is that we have started thinking about ACTING at ALL! Maybe Bert, and others, will brainstorm here or dream a little, and then go off and do something even more powerful than whatever they dream up here. Maybe it will be something profoundly unitive, too. But complaining that someone has chosen the wrong starting point is not what encourages effective action! Bert M'dear, can your plan wait till I get back from the grocery store? *G* ~Susan, Wizzing out for a bit |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Bert Date: 23 Jan 01 - 01:19 PM Hey Troll, if he had addressed some of those issues I probably wouldn't even have noticed the prayer thing. But the prayer thing was HIS priority. Let's all write and ask him why. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: GUEST,petr Date: 23 Jan 01 - 01:19 PM funny that you should mention global warming troll, since bush doesnt even believe in such a thing. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jan 01 - 01:24 PM You know, guys, you really ought to make good use of me while I'm here. I'm good with this shit and I really don't have a lot of time to fuck around. Bert M'dear, I'll be back... work on those questions, OK? ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Bert Date: 23 Jan 01 - 01:25 PM petr, I hope you're not comparing our Troll, with Baby Bush. Our Troll is a 'thinking' man. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Jim the Bart Date: 23 Jan 01 - 01:29 PM WYSIWYG - one of the things that we can do, and must continue to do, is point out the fallacies in each other's arguments. IF there is (or ever was) an easy fix for our problems I'll be switched if I know what it is. Bart |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Bill D Date: 23 Jan 01 - 01:45 PM action plan?..well, whenever you see the opportunity to VOTE for someone who is NOT promoting wholesale de-regulation of mining, lumbering and the ownership of entire industries (phones, Radio-TV.etc..) DO IT! ..And tell others when you hear of public hearing on these issues...and pressure your current representatives in congress to NOT allow laws which sacrifice the public interest for the sake of enormous profits for a few. And GIVE, when you can, to organizations which already know how to fight these trends and which are involved in disseminating truth and preserving diversity and competition. How's that for a beginning? You have almost 2 years to IDENTIFY and pressure your congressional delegations. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: katlaughing Date: 23 Jan 01 - 02:47 PM Amen to all of that, Bill. Also, explore this site |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jan 01 - 03:01 PM It's very interesting that what we have so far are mostly ideas on what other people should do, and not much yet on what we ourselves are planning to do. Funny, when no one I noticed posting a kind of wringing-the-hands request for advice, "Oh, what should I do, what should I DOOOO????" People. Gotta love 'em. ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: katlaughing Date: 23 Jan 01 - 03:10 PM Did it ever occur to you that the things we posted may be some of the things we, ourselves, not only plan to do but have done and will continue to do? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Bert Date: 23 Jan 01 - 03:14 PM Well I'm gonna "write and ask him why." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jan 01 - 03:22 PM Yes, kat, and it also occurred to me that given the present situation, some fresh planning might well be in order. I was referring to the posts in THIS thread, BTW, not commenting on the other thread and its posts. ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: katlaughing Date: 23 Jan 01 - 03:27 PM So was I. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jan 01 - 03:32 PM Do you think it is helpful for logical allies to rag at each other? I just reread this thread. I don't see a whole lot of "What I plan to do is...." which is what the thread was created for. Do you? ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Penny S. Date: 23 Jan 01 - 05:45 PM Do any of the Yorkshire folk have info on the threat to turn Fylingdales into part of the Star Wars scheme? This is where Bush action could affect the UK without our sayso. Penny |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: mousethief Date: 23 Jan 01 - 06:09 PM Once you wind it up, you can't always be sure where the toy will go. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Matt_R Date: 23 Jan 01 - 06:15 PM I'm gonna sit back and ignore it! I have a CA submission portfolio to put together that's more important. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: mousethief Date: 23 Jan 01 - 06:18 PM You're submitting to California? Don't do it! They're out of electricity! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Matt_R Date: 23 Jan 01 - 06:39 PM HAHA! No no...Communication Art: Image Design. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: mousethief Date: 23 Jan 01 - 06:43 PM Oh. That's different. Never mind. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jan 01 - 06:46 PM See? I can TOO start a thread that gets lots of posts! Nyaaah!! ~Cornelius Wachfluegel |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Bill D Date: 23 Jan 01 - 08:39 PM WYSI..I thought it was implicit in my post that I would do my best to follow my own advice.... in addition, one of my 'talents' is to recognize the difference between a band-aid and a cure. Therefore one of my priorities will be to call attention to that difference loudly and often-- I believe "rubbing your nose in it" is a common way to describe the activity..*grin* I can, and will use a shovel, but figuring out where to dig is also a useful skill. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jan 01 - 09:01 PM Funny thing about the implicate-- sometimes a thing is so well folded up that the insides are not visible to the naked eye. If one has practiced not trying to read things into what others say, in favor of taking people at face value, it can be harder to peek into the deeps. I saw your post, Bill, as really effective exhortation, because it is written in that voice. It's interesting stuff--- can you be more specific about your plans? ~Back in the AM, nighshift coming on! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Bill D Date: 23 Jan 01 - 09:06 PM likewise..sleep calls...posting here is WORK...people read and think and challenge you...I hope it makes ME better for having my thoughts reflected off others... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Matt_R Date: 23 Jan 01 - 09:08 PM I usually ignore national days of ANYTHING! Except national hot dog week...that was pretty cool. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jan 01 - 09:09 PM Yeah, dang PEOPLE!!! LOL!!! (We used to swear darkly and ominously under our breath as teenagers: "Fucking earth people!") Night! ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Sorcha Date: 23 Jan 01 - 10:12 PM I was gonna say "Dig a foxhole" but wizzy wig would rip my head off, although she might not spit down my neck......
Way Out Here, in the Wild, Wild West (read REPUBLICAN!!!) there is not really much we can do. All of our nat'l people are R, and hell, we have to claim Cheney!! Rep. Barbie Cubin is too stupid to find her own (nevermind), and seems to open every statement with "Well, mah husband says.......". I could write letters until Doomsday, and this is probably what I would get back if I wrote a letter asking about the "Prayer Request"...
Thank you for your interest in the the ongoing water negotiations between Wyoming and Alaska. We hope to resolve this problem sometime in the next millenium. Good Wishes to you; remember to fence your pastures, and sell land to Amoco.
Yours, |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Charlie Baum Date: 24 Jan 01 - 12:34 AM Don't wait for the next election; write your Senators and Congressperson today and give them a piece of your mind. They are in DC to represent YOU, and they read their mail and e-mail. Constituents who take the time to write to them get their ideas considered. If enough people write suggesting a particular course of action on a particular issue, they may even take in account those opinions and vote for you (if they haven't been bought out by some corporate special interest). Go directly to Select your state, and you'll be connected to a website for each of your Senators, and they all have nifty little forms available for sending e-mail. Consider asking them to join Teddy Kennedy's filibuster against Ashcroft. Ask them to save the Alaskan Wilderness and savage Ms. Norton instead. Ask them to block the school vouchers (or whatever Shrub's people have re-termed them) that take money away from our public schools--and especially those that are the most perilously underfunded! Add you own diatribe here. No--not here--there--in the letter to your Senator. Good. Now go to: http://www.house.gov/writerep/ Plug in your zip code and you'll get a website for your Congressperson. Repeat the process. Keep in mind that bills involving spending must originate in the House, so these are the people to bother first about a tax cut that's too big (though your Senators will have to deal with the issue sooner or later). Add in your own ideas. Start your letter in a word-processing program on the side. Now you can cut and paste it into each Senator's e-mail box, and once again to your Congressperson (remembering, of course, to change "Dear Senator___" to "Dear Mr. (or Ms.) ___" Don't keep scrolling down. Click out of Mudcat NOW and get busy doing something about the inept running of the country. Your friends may be here, but the people who have the power to do something about it are there. --Charlie Baum |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Jan 01 - 12:43 AM Well at least maybe a scroll this far. Here are a couple of clickies to the sites. Spaw
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Jan 01 - 12:47 AM Hmmmm....Should have looked at Charlie's addy closer....Let's try again without the space.........
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Skeptic Date: 24 Jan 01 - 06:30 AM And get to know your local elected officials. A call/letter to Washington (or your State Reps) carries a lot of weight. A former State Congressmen told me a call from a Mayor was like gettin a couple of hundred calls from us plain ol' citizens. Regards John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 24 Jan 01 - 11:08 AM Refresh. Please read first post, thoughtfully. ~Susan (AKA Praise) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: GUEST,Daddy Date: 24 Jan 01 - 12:53 PM Prays, Wussy-Wigg, or whatever you are calling yourself this week: What should YOU do? How about stop playing Mommy & shut the f##k up? That would be a big help. We are not all six years old. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Skeptic Date: 24 Jan 01 - 01:48 PM Guest Daddy, You claim "We are not all six years old" Aren't you? From the tone and nature of your post, I'd have suspected otherwise. Susan, Sorry. More directly, then. I'm involved in a couple of local groups, card carrying member of the ACLU (there, the awful truth is out) and probably send out six to ten letters/emails a week to local and State officials, either soliciting information, offering an opinion or complaining. Plus I talk to people about issues. Not to argue my perspective but to find out theirs. And ask questions that might result in them at least thinking about a different way of looking at things. Regards John
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 25 Jan 01 - 10:58 AM John, what kinds have questions have you found most effective, and what is there about your attitude in asking them that lets them squeak through the person's rigidities? And, in what way does doing this get difficult? ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Skeptic Date: 25 Jan 01 - 12:10 PM sorry, hit the wrong button "Susan, Here's what I do. These are in hindsight. Didn't plan it that way. It sort of evolved. You need a set of personal values. Whatever they are. belief in God, the Earth Mother, The Dow Jones Average or the wisdom of fortune cookies. Rule I - The purpose is to learn and educate. Not for one or the other to win. Yes, its nice to win but what if they're right and you're wrong. Rule Two - if you're stuck in circular logic, its probably a waste of time. Against stupidity, the gods themselves really do contend in vain. "I know because I know" is a waste of time/ Rule C - I use a sort of Socratic approach....along the lines of ...."Okay, I understand that but what happens when or if .........". Then ask another question. And another. Eventually you get to a "I know circle.." but the possibility of another point of view has been introduced. Rule 4 - If everyone you know basically agrees with you (and vice-versa), you need a expand your circle of friends. Or accept that you're in the "I know because I know mode". If it's not an ego contest, then both learn. The changes are small. It gets difficult/frustrating because it ain't instant karma. I takes a lot of research too. People respond to facts (hopefully ones that have some basis is fact). As an example, on another thread I got into my belief the constitution should be treated like a social contract in a fairly pure sense. This isn't widely accepted. It is where I argue from on these kinds of issues Situational beliefs, like situational ethics always seemed to be a way to avoid personal responsibility. Recognizing that I'm responsible for what I do, say and believe is another value (of many). As I ask and answer questions, I keep that in mind. Sorry for screwing up the first post. Is there a way to retract a post once its been made? Regards John
Yes, John, just ask one of the JoeClones, |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: LR Mole Date: 25 Jan 01 - 12:14 PM Hmm. I'm trying to ignore Yahoos and bullies, myself. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Skeptic Date: 25 Jan 01 - 12:21 PM LR Mole, I try to avoid/avoid being the second. I can round up a bunch of people who'd argue I qualify as the first. Yahoos are sometimes fun but always frustrating. Bullies? Not so much avoid as not go out looking real hard for them. Yahoos can be ignored. Bullies shouldn't be. Find one and the best defense (verbally), is "I know because I know". And an occasional ad hommium attack. Not sure how to deal with bullies who're yahoos. Maybe a tranquilizer dart? Regards John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 25 Jan 01 - 12:26 PM John, I like the way you think and I am pleased we are discussing it here instead of off-Forum as we considered doing. What I liked especially was the judicious application of hindsight and that you articulated the process by which you were describibng all of this. Multiple levels of awareness operating and offered transparently-- I value that. With hindsight, we never need to get stuck, I think. A mentor I still learn from, while not being in touch for about 6 years now, said that the "monitor feedback" loop is one of the most overlooked tools at our disposal-- once a thing gets going, if one does not monitor and reassess, forward movement goes wrong or stops. I think hindsight and after-task analuysis as you describe is part of that. So it is not only WHAT you think that I like here, it is HOW you got there and laid it out so clearly... it has the snese that tomorrow you may see it better, and better, and better. You make it easy to see the movement.... I think when we cannot see movement in ourselves or others, we miss the significnace of the moments before us, and misestimate the best response possible. Something I have been learning about as I get older is that the people who seem NOT to have heard often HAVE heard on such a deep level that it takes years for the thing heard to bubble up into their awareness. When the "circle" you describe kicks in, for instance, I have often found that later on, the intelligence of that person worked away at the issue in question and they have moved far past that point where they seemed so stuck. Realizing this, I have become much more thoughtful about what I say, because it may actually kick in later on, and I don't want to say so much that when it DOES kick in, they will have a sense that they didn't do their thinking well enough. I have a lot to keep learning in that regard, and I appreciate the chance to discuss it with you. So... when you talk about research, does that include research into the other position, opposite to the one you are taking? In Re-evaluation Counseling communities, there is an interesting approach to resolving policy disagreements. One component of it is that if the dispute is intractable, the two parties agree to take a turn arguing each others' positions to one another. Just to loosen things up, if nothing else. It gets pretty interesting, and quickly amusing, too. On your mis-post question-- over in the Help Forum, people ask the Mudcat volunteers to help fix mis-posts of all sorts. Yours wasn't a bad one, and now that we have made reference to it in continuing posts, it would kind of mess with poeople's heads to remove the mis-post-- we'd be discussing something that has disappeared. So if the volunteers want to take out our references to it, that's OK with me too! ~Susan |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Skeptic Date: 25 Jan 01 - 01:11 PM Susan, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, I try to research the other point of view. To a degree, anyway. Some appear not worth the effort. I've always been a big fan of the erosion theory. Wear them down. Worked for the Grand Canyon. I will restate. It has to start with a system of values. Regards John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 25 Jan 01 - 01:51 PM John, Funny that we agree on so many essential points while seeing other important things so differently. Ah, life!!! To talk with people who are willing to think about thinking-- it's great! I hope others will join in. If not, this has been lovely, John. ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: kendall Date: 25 Jan 01 - 02:16 PM I sent personal letters (not petitions) to both my Senators asking them to put the good of the country before their political careers. I'm beginning to suspect that Dumbo has put John Ashcroft up for Att. General knowing the democrats would shoot him down. He would then withdraw his name, and Dumbo can nominate some other candidate, and, call for compomise with his other candidates. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 25 Jan 01 - 03:19 PM Goodonya, Kendall. Hey, do you think that some of the same skills that go into songwriting and handling a crowd in perfomance go into letters like that? Do you feel like you reached into the same cupboard, I mean, to pull out the things you wanted to say? Hey, anybody... Why is it that people of a genre famous for topical commentary are so talk-oriented here at Mudcat-- are there songs that flow out of these for people, most of the time, some of the time, or ever? Do we folkies DO topical stuff anymore? Did we get too used to political crapola to catch a vision of changing things through song? Or are our audiences so much in agreement with us that the songs would amount to preaching to the choir? Who SHOULD we "preach" to, and how? Geez. I am accused of preaching when I write; have we lost our taste for prmoting idealisms? Isn't that kind of what used to BE the folk attitude? I confoozed. Oh I don't compare MY crap with Ochs, etc.; I just mean, the attitudes we have now.... Now it's ME that's the radical, within people who are "supposed" to be? I real confoozed now!!!! Has the topical approach gone into the comedy realm instead of ours? Look at the nightly coverage of the Florida voting situation-- daily doses of the day's humor, because it just HAD to be kept light or we'd have all gone nuts! Non-PC humor became PC! ????? Maybe we pick traditional material that resembles currnt situations, intentionally. I don't do that much with the hymns I choose... maybe I should. Where I live, BTW, there is no ongoing "folk scene." I really don't know what you folks are doing-- I never get to go hear you. And it's been a long time since I had a computer that would handle radio, or a radio station near enough to pull in here where I am. Or do we do it but just not talk about it here? Why would that be? And on your sneaky suspicion, Kendall-- ya know... I have often been able to spot what is "really" going on in an outwardly nonsensical local political situation by asking myself, "What would be the FUNNIEST thing, if it were true?" And the gut-buster usually proves to be exactly what IS going on, right behind the scenes. I think you have to be close to the situation to tune this in, but geez, Kendall, ya got me thinkin' now.... ~Just Wondering, Thass All. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Skeptic Date: 25 Jan 01 - 04:16 PM Kendall, I maintain that GWB's primary agenda is to do what's best for the big business interests that funded his campaign. (Remember the $70 million spent before the first primary?) What he does in support of that debt won't get much play in the press . Abortion, vouchers and Ashcroft will. More smoke and mirrors. BTW. I saw that Bush has asked the FDA to re-examine its decision to release RU-486. Big surprise. Regards John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Bill D Date: 25 Jan 01 - 06:26 PM I hope the FDA tells him they thought LONG and HARD about RU-486, and that human concerns win out over his narrow-minded moralistic position |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Skeptic Date: 25 Jan 01 - 07:15 PM Bill D, You giving odds? Regards John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: Susan from California Date: 26 Jan 01 - 12:44 AM Ok, here's what we did when our school board had a RR majority, with the typical RR agenda. Perhaps some of it can/will translate... 1. Standard stuff-- we wrote letters to the local paper, which forced the paper to pay more attention to school issues. We went to meetings and used our three mins of public comment time every time they met. 2. We followed complaint/ grievance procedures. Whenever we had an issue, we went directly to the press with a written press release. They took their quotes directly form the release, which saved everybody time AND we were able to control the quotes to some extent. 3. We allied with national organizations. We asked for help from the experts on any given subject. When we read articles that had to do with a subject we were dealing with, we tracked down the author an asked for help or more information. Author info is often at the end of the article. 4. We put on old-fashioned political rallies in the park, complete with short speeches, lots of music, and we managed to get celebs there to help draw a crowd. 5. We did research and ran our own candidates. Best move we made. As for what I am doing about the current situation, probably not as much as I should. I went to a "count the votes" rally, Keith has written a song, and our daughter has had a never ending series of telephone answering machine messages that are funny and thought provoking. I try to discuss it one-on-one with people in the mushy middle, and once in a while with those I know who are on the opposite side. Not much, I admit. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: BUSHwacked II-- Action Plans From: wysiwyg Date: 26 Jan 01 - 12:48 AM Um, yeah, right... plus being a teacher!?!?!?!?! And somewhat involved parent????? Not doing much?????? Makes me tired just thinking about it-- good night! *G* ~Susan (AKA Praise) |