Persona... is it real?

Subject: Persona... is it real?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 02:30 AM

Is the act an act? Or is it the reality behind the act that stimulates the listener? Do the really good performers captivate out of their own soul? Or does the act transcend the performer's content.

As a fledgling preformer, I gotta know...

It seems to me that the preformer is the essence of his/her performance, and yet I am told by some to virtually elimminate my personality as much as possible to really perform the song well. Well? I wonder.... Or maybe it's my personality... Hmmm... What do you think about this performance persona predicament?
ttr

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:04 AM

That's quite a question, Thomas. I suppose I assume a persona when I'm on stage. It especially happens when I work with kids. I get before a group, and "Crazy Joe" takes over. I find myself talking in different voices, accompanied by my friends Bob the Dog and Fred the Frog and Herbert, who is obviously a bear. I find I'm in a state of heightened consciousness, and I even find I remember lyrics better.

"Crazy Joe" is the persona that is probably the most radical change for me, but I use others for different audiences and situations. Is my persona false? No, I don't think so. It's a way of adjusting my presentation so that I can best express what's inside me. The "Real Joe" is rather introspective and shy, not likely to sing or even speak in front of a bunch of people. But if I have a message I want to get across (like the message of my love of music), then I have to take on a persona to help me achieve that.

I'm not quite sure which persona is teaching the class on Sacraments at St. John Vianney Church on Monday nights. Probably Crazy Joe. This might be dangerous...

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:16 AM

It depends a lot on the person performing. If you have a great personality and bring that forward in your act, then you stand a better chance of success, particularly if, although good, you aren't amazing. No matter how good you are, if you have the charm and personality of a bottle of dog vomit, your stage act will suffer, and so will your audience.

Look at Les Barker, he is not exactly what you would class as sexy and vivacious is he....? Yet there are several women in the world who just want to take him to one side and do rude things upon his body. He has a great personality (even if he puts himself down all the time - although that is part of it as well) and he makes people laugh. People flock to his concerts, regardless of whether they've seen him once or a hundred times before.

On the other hand, I know a very raunchy and pretty fiddler, who hit the big time because she was a skilled and talented player (the two are not the same....) but her stage act was pants. It didn't change during the first 3 years she did the circuit and by the end of it, I could do her act word for word. She overheard me saying this to someone in the front row (watch out, it's the joke about the 3 fingered fiddler next....) and lo, a life long enmity was born, but I notice that she did change her act!

The person people pay to see is you. If they just wanted to hear the music, they'd buy a CD/tape. If the stage persona is a different one to your real self, then fine, just don't let that persona slip when in public, and don't let it take over your life. If you go to a festival with Sid Kipper in it, you will barely recognise Chris Sugden when he isn't performing. But he will usually, at some point, wander around as Sid, just a bloke enjoying the festival, but as a different persona. Sid enjoys different things at the festival than Chris does. Schizophrenia is probably the closest anyone will get to it....

LTS

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: English Jon
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:39 AM

I'm also a fledgling. I've been working on performing absolutely openly. It's bloody difficult, very exposed, and a stage persona would make my life a lot easier, but this way seems to suit my act better. The only problem is that you end up taking a long look at your personality, warts and all, and sometimes it's not what you want to see.

I think really it's a matter of what you feel comfortable with.

Best of luck!

Jon

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 05:45 AM

These people who are saying you should eliminate personality to perform the song - are they working on some theory that you need to be 'transparent' in order to let the song show through?
It sounds sort of feasible, but not quite right.
Surely your personality is what distinguishes your performance from any other performance - and hence what makes a performance different to a recording.
I think it would be kind of 'empty' to eliminate your personality & it sounds as though you're not that comfortable with the idea. So - b*gg*r 'em - go with what you feel is right for you. Where do you perform at the moment? Is is possible to use a few open-mic sessions to experiment with the different approaches & see what actually works for you & for your audience?
As to persona, it may be convenient to adopt a persona (whether it is a fabricated one or merely an exagerated facet of your natural persona - or whatever). I'm trying to fledge too, so I've no idea whether I'm talking ballcocks - but I think it helps to have a special performance persona you can fall back on. I've not really got one though. There might be one developing though, because I do feel totally different behind a mic & I feel quite in control & can talk quite happily between songs (that was a big surprise by the way).
Anyway - to get back to the point. My vote goes for personality & persona being a good thing.
Not sure I could keep a whole set going like Joe though!!
LtS - have you seen Chris Sherbourne & Denny B-something? Chris is a patter-master & certainly seems to be able to ramble on completely off the cuff & original. I really love listening to him - whereas unchanging scripted patter palls badly over time. I always feel vaguely let down when I hear the same asides & witticisms again & again. I suppose that there the 'personality' is part of the act & is necessarily scripted & rehearsed. But I much prefer the genuine personality of Chris & Denny and the like.
Kris

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: mkebenn
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 07:17 AM

To me, the worst feeling I can have when hearing "our" music(as opposed to rock or country, and don't start) is that I'm listening to an act. The music was meant for singing to close friends around a camp or fireplace, and I try to create that feeling with an audience. Perhaps that's an act in itself, but if I've thought of a funny line,off stage, I'll be damned sure it fits and rolls out naturally before I'll use it on stage. Mike(no pro)

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 07:40 AM

The music (and the talent required to deliver the music) are THE thing. The "persona" is the marketing/salesmanship end of it.

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 09:01 AM

The word "persona", as I was taught in psychology class about fifty years ago, comes from Greek, and means a mask, such as was worn by actors in Hellenic times. It will come as no surprise that "persona" is the source of our word "personality", although "personality" is modern usage means the whole set of our attitudes, likes, dislikes, tendencies, avoidances which makes each of us who we are.

It seems clear to me that any persona we adopt for performing purposes is inevitably a version (or maybe a subset) of what our own natural personality is. Try as we might, we can't avoid who we are, after all. The persona may be merely a small twist, maybe a brightening-up, of our natural approach, but it might go so far as seeming to be another person. In any case, we are pushing and shoving, working with the raw material we have built into each of us, and if we try to project a persona that is not based on who we really are the result will be totally false and unconvincing.

DAve Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 09:26 AM

Denny Bartley.

As for Les Barker, he seems so innocent, even though it's not likely. It's the humility and shyness that make him so darned cute. I said something to him once about enjoying his performance - that's all I wanted to tell him, no long conversations. He honestly seemed to be at a loss for words. He's got that little boy twinkle in his eye, combined with the wisdom of the ages.

If you work to eliminate personality from performing, why bother doing it? It's not just the music people come to hear - it's you doing it. If you don't add a bit of yourself, people can just listen to a CD.

Thomas, here's my philosophy. (Oh no - she's doing it again! Make her stop!) When we're kids, our personalities come out naturally. We act goofy and enjoy life without worrying about "behaving correctly." During our teenage years and young adulthood, we often hear "be serious," "don't act silly," "keep quiet." In short, we're told to hide our personalities. At some point in our lives, we realise that this is wrong. We also may notice that the people who are really doing well in life are those who didn't listen to the people who told them to shut up and act normal. We spend more of our adulthood trying to get back to who we were as children, before we were told to act like everybody else.

Do the people you really respect damp down their personalities? Do songs deserve to be sung without passion? If you lose the personality, you lose the passion.

I think the only time most of us don't care for personas is when they seemed contrived. Storytellers change their voices to suit the characters in their stories, and singers can do it too. Chris and Denny have each other to respond to. A lone performer doesn't have anyone to add variables to a performance. I can understand how they can get stuck with the same old jokes. I don't know how to get around that - heckling isn't very nice. Maybe talking about current events, the venue or people in the audience? Maybe asking questions and then responding to the answers? It's a tough one.

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 10:00 AM

Jeri - that hits the nail on the head - I think that's why there are so many people who start singing/playing in public in their 30s & 40s. I'm going to try very hard not to tell Hammerite to shut up & act normal.
As you say - Chris & Denny can bounce off eachother. I'm trying to think of comparable solo patterers.
Can't think of any straight off though - so perhaps its an insoluble problem. Perhaps prepared patter is a useful framework & confidence prop in some cases.

Kris

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 10:06 AM

Persona is about perception. It's not so much what you are as it is how you are seen to be. Your Stage Persona is about how you are going to be perceived when performing. It's bound to differ somewhat in different performing venues - big stages in big rooms require a larger approach; informal sing arounds require a more relaxed approach.

The question of how your performance face relates to your material is a bit more complex. Are you letting the song(s) speak for you? If so, it's your interpretation of the melody, rhythm and lyric that matters most. This approach is vastly different than presenting the song on it's own terms, that is, taking on the persona of the character(s) in the song.

Many times I have tried to understand why certain performers really stand out. I think it's often a matter of the performer being clear not only on the minimal things - "I know the words, I know the melody, my guitar is in tune, my introduction is clear, etc." - but also on the bigger picture - "I know what I'm trying to achieve with this song and I know exactly how to put it across".

What should the relationship between your persona and the song be? That depends totally on how you want to be perceived. It really isn't a question of one approach being better than another, it is more a question of having an approach and being true to it at the moment of performance - being there then (my apologies to Baba Ram Dass).

One thing to consider is that how you are perceived is how you will be remembered. I think that's why so many people who perform need to place their stamp on a song. Performance is often an ego driven activity. What's more important to you - having people remember the song or the singer?

These are just a few thoughts on this subject. Please don't hold me to any of this tomorrow; I may have reconsidered it all by then.

Good day to you all
Bart

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 10:10 AM

I was a complete fraud. I don't like this music at all and just managed to play it for 4 decades with drugs and deceit. If I managed to fool anyone, I'm really glad.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 10:11 AM

I don't know that some of that "shut up and act normal" stuff isn't necessary. For me, it sure made me conciously aware of the value of creativeness in one's personality. It also showed me I had to make an effor to be myself.

As to solo patter - haha! I think I found the solution in my post above. One can always talk to one's self! (Jeri, stop it! There are not many people who are as weird as you, or want people to know they're that weird!)

Me, I do "Fire Down Below," and my fake hula dancing during the line "and see the pretty girls do the hula-hula dances" has prompted another to join me. A male person. Who knows - at some point, we may have the entire room stand up and do a couple of swishes. It's FUN!

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 10:21 AM

I should say I swiped both the song and the hula dancing from the Johnson Girls.

Art was also probably faking being very good and having an ironic sense of humor. Probably hates puns, too.

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 10:32 AM

No no - I'm convinced now. I'm totally against the 'shut up and act normal' from now on. Next time I see Hamm quiet & normal I shall beat her with my double-ended badger broom.
I love the thought of a whole room hula-ing round with unquenchable fires raging down below. Jeri - you are scaring me.

Kris

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 10:42 AM

Interesting discussion here. The music is the thing on one side of course and there is a case for that. Why buy a recording of anything? If it was persona, we'd never buy anything recorded, only attend live events. On the other hand, the persona often carries over to the material and makes someone infinitely more believable, even if the actual quality of the music is less.

Jeri draws a pretty happy medium here I think. Take someone like Arlo for example. He's a superior musician although his voice is not much better in some respects than Dylan's. His stage presence and the persona he has (which is pretty real) makes him far more listenable to many people. Karen can't stand Dylan, LOVES Arlo. She'll now admit that Arlo doesn't sing much better, but she just loves whatever he has. Arlo can hold the attention of an audience like almost no one else. I like John Prine for his many great songs, but I really enjoy his stage stuff although he really isn't all that great. I have no idea what he does that hooks me beyond the music, but when you are at a Prine concert.......well, hell....I dunno'....but you're AT a Prine concert.

I think its rare to find anyone capable of being simply one or the other........Lord knows I'm not a huge fan of Neil Young's music (I do like some), and I don't care much for his persona doing acoustic stuff. But when Neil picks up the Les Paul and rocks, there is no one I'd rather watch!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 12:06 PM

Gosh, its great to be back!!! You folks turn me on. Thanks. ttr

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 12:38 PM

Persona can be a HUGE asset to a live performer. Whether that carries through on a recording is another matter. It might, it might not. The best possible combo is a great persona and great music, needless to say.

My best performances have invariably been when I was really up for it and full of energy, in which case the persona end was at its best. The performance end was definitely enhanced too when that was the case.

So, I'd say...work on both ends as best you can, and each end will benefit the other as time goes by. A sense of humour is a great asset to any act, by the way, and I don't mean you've gotta tell jokes, but have a sense of humour that shows through. It's a great counterbalance to the serious stuff.

Some people, BTW, overdo the self-deprecating humour, in my opinion. Depends...

You've also gotta love what you're doing. Otherwise it just becomes a chore...like shoveling out the driveway. I've done shows where I absolutely did not want to be there...what a drag. Somehow I got through them.

- LH

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 04:14 PM

Tom, Just get out there and do it. Concentrate on the here and now, and let that be the focus of your endeavors.
Jim

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 04:42 PM

People will buy the CD to try to recreate the atmosphere of the concert - why else sell 'live' recordings.

Once you have your persona, you need to stick to it, change upsets people, especially if they saw one and want a repeat performance. That's why Les does more serious stuff in the States and Canada - the UK is far more used to his silly stuff, and I gobsmacked him by quoting one of his serious ones at him..... it was a long time ago though! If he tried to slip a serious one into a concert here, I suspect he would never make it to the door in one piece unless he followed it with 10 funny ones.

LTS

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 04:57 PM

I am overwhelmed. I thought it was all about remembering the words and trying to stay on key. I am humbled.
Mary in IRONIC persona.

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 05:07 PM

If you've seen me play in the living room, you've seen me on stage too. Maybe my clothes are different on stage, but it's all Me. I am only who I am. If I mess up, I laugh about it. It ain't nothin but a thang. I don't have a problem with people doing an "act" - hell, Kiss was an act, and those guys are still making a pile of money. But it's not me.

I do have one joke I like to tell and I'm sure my pards are probably sick of it. It goes something like... fiddle tunes often had several different names depending on what year it was and what part of the world you were in. At one point in time, this tune was called The King's Head. Whether the king's head was attached to his body at the time, we really don't know... It always seems to get a laugh.

Now, I do like to Act, although I haven't done any of it really for a long time. When I'm singing, though, whatcha see is whatcha get. Actually, though, I'm like that all the time. There's not a lot I can hide. :-)

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 06:31 PM

I think the main thing is to be yourself, but not be stuck in any part of yourself that particularly needs anything from the audience, from the experience.... you are there to give from a surplus you have.... so the need to show, if any, is the need we all have to give what we can.

My related epxoerience is in leading the music for our weekly Saturday night church service. I try to keep foremost in my mind that whatever I may be feeling is not as important as what the people out in the pews are feeling and experiencing. Of course, it's my hope to genuinely feel the music too, and to experience doing that WITH the people. But my first responsibility is to get ME out of the way and give them a means to connect with the song, the setting, themselves, each other, and yes, God.

My own connection with all these can be a way of modeling for them-- sometimes I will sing something far "gooshier" than they might see themselves singing, but I've made it safe by being out front with it. Unless I remain detached enough to be aware that I am doing this, I am taking the client role as though they are there to pay attention to what I am feeling. And ideally I think it's my role to be aware of how THEY are feeling, and put whatever I have into the service of that.

So I think that performing professionally is different from other ways we share song with others in a group-- in a songcircle or jam or open mike, there is an agenda there for each person that is approriate, about developing one's skills nad comfort level... and it's honest to show the needs there. But when people have paid to come see you, I think it's different-- I think we are there to serve THEM.

What I love is the chance to do a song that so closely matches what I feel and see and think that it does not matter anymore that it does-- when a song can take over so that I can put my full attention on just giving it away-- it's the best. If I am focusing on my feelings or technique-- they just get in the way.

~S~

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 06:40 PM

Lord knows I'm not a huge fan of Neil Young's music (I do like some), and I don't care much for his persona doing acoustic stuff. But when Neil picks up the Les Paul and rocks, there is no one I'd rather watch!...Catspaw

Hot damn, Spaw, we feel the same way. He's this kind of clumsy anachronism with his patched jeans and his headband, but the son of a bitch rocks like he loves it.

There's an innate dichotomy in the artist as performer and as creative force. The artist may be a poet or a gifted instrumentalist, an introvert with a sensitive nature, but the stage has power to effect a transformation of that poet into an entertainer. The Personna adopted may be an aspect of his personality, an aspect that may in fact be at odds with his true nature. Jim Morrison saw himself as a poet, but developed a stage personna he referred to as The Lizard King, a combination of Shaman, Rogue, and Sacrificial Offering. He actually felt this personna took on a palpable reality that threatened to absorb his own personality.

Now most performers are probably less schizophrenic than Morrison was, but I myself have caught glimpses of aspects of myself that were quite startling when on the stage, and I think that, all in all, there is a certain alteration of my personality that takes place, until on occasion I am as curious about what I'll do next as the audience is.

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: hesperis
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 06:48 PM

Thomas! Long time no see! Were you wandering with Aengus?

As far as I'm concerned, when I did try to make a persona, I usually ended up feeling false, and feeling like the praise I received did not belong to me. I was also concentrating on the persona because I was worried about my performance - it wasn't growing out of who I am and what I wanted to communicate with the music.

Now, I am a lot more low-key. I am still scared of solo public performance, but I can be comfortable to be me. In small groups, I rock! The music comes first now, and entertaining people flows out of it a lot better. Before, I was trying so hard to entertain, that the music suffered.

Just know what you want to communicate, and do it. It really should be the easiest thing in the world to get up on stage, and do your thing. If it's not easy, look honestly at yourself and make it easier. Or get out.

~*sirepseh*~

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: tiggerdooley
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 06:49 PM

I don't put anything on, but I do become different when I'm on stage. I become a bit more confident, a bit cheeky, a bit more charming than I would dare to be in 'real life'.
Once, when we were performing at an open mic night, most of the crowd were really drunk and lairy, just jumping around. This one guy was being a total rude asshole and eventually fell onto the tiny stage, almost knocking me over, and almost smashing my teeth in with the microphone. Now I'm only a small girl, and I'm normally quite a pacifist, but as he hit the ground, I just got the 'red mist'. I knew he couldn't go unpunished for trying to spoil the enjoyment of the appreciative people in the crowd. So I just did it, without missing a note of the song I was singing - I KICKED HIM IN THE HEAD!
The beauty of it is, it got everybody watching and listening. And they all started to behave, 'cos they knew that if they didn't, they'd be next! And I got a humungous cheer at the end. I've always had a bit more stage presence since that day, and people still come up to me and shake my hand. So, to that guy, who probably doesn't remember what he did that night: THANK YOU!!!!

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 07:07 PM

And you know my head still hurts from that, tigger! Next time take your damn steel-toed Doc Martins off first!

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 08:35 PM

This "persona" trick is perhaps not the same social machinery you use when you're dining at MacDonald's but the real acid test is whether the "persona" you use allows the real you to leak into the audience's space or not; them as does gets the retun calls and the applause.

A

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: hesperis
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 08:57 PM

Well, I got the "encore" calls, and the applause, but I couldn't accept them. Now I can. I don't consider the "up" that I get when on stage to be a persona, or at least, a persona different than "me".

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 03:10 AM

I think there are two very important things - that you like your music, and that you like your audience. I saw Bob Dylan about ten yours ago, and I will never pay to see him again - he seemed to have a disdain for both the music and the audience. My son used to insult his audience - but the kids still seemed to love his band's music. Finally, he's developed a better attitude toward the audience, and he's now almost at the point of being able to make a living as a musician. For once, the kid listened to me (but he had to reach the age of 28 before it happened).

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 10:23 AM

Joe:

From my experience, that timing seems about right.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: LR Mole
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 11:28 AM

Good topic. I think of the person behind the guitar and my face as louder, less shy, less worried about (not) having something to give. And, since the songs are there to lean on, he's more articulate. Still, I like him. Not being a songwriter, sharing to that degree is a thing I don't understand. The biggest imponderable, of course, is the audience. As I've said so often I now think I made it up myself,"There are three shows going on any time you play: the one you're doing, the one the audience is hearing, and the one on the tape if you have the machine going. And they have very little to do with one another."

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 01:17 PM

I guess there are two sides of myself that appear on stage. The first goes by the name of Chester Drawers. He's the fiddler from the Euphoria String Band. He's got sort of a clueless sort of manner, and he does that to comic effect. Sometimes I'm not always sure whether or not it is put on, or genuine. I know that sometimes he messes up on purpose as for example when he says at the beginning of the radio broadcast over WHY radio "It's time to move back the dogs, roll up the furniture, and kick out the carpet for some of those Southern Songs and Old-time Tunes from away back yonder, so don't touch that dial." Cute, but not side splitting funny. But that's Chester.

When I am on stage all by myself, I just get up there and sing the song and more or less put the whole personna thing out of mind. The song is the thing, or the joke that leads up to the song. In that case, like some one else said, "Whatcha see is whatcha get."
Jim

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 01:25 PM

The important thing is sincerity. Once you learn to fake that, you have it made.

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 02:00 PM

Sometime the persona is better loved than the person. Remember KISS? I found it very amusing that their fans liked their music until they took off their makeup, at which point everyone shrugged their shoulders and left. And then, when they decided to re-assume the pose (so to speak) they made a big comeback.

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 05:14 PM

Thought provoking. There are others beyond music/performance who face this "persona" problem to a greater extent. I had a friend who left a CIA job when he started a family because he was "tired of being a spook for 14 hours a day". He wasn't even in the blood & guts department, but still found it wearing to put on a front day in, day out.

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 10:48 PM

The question is, does the persona come forth from one's heart/soul, or does it stem from some darker ulterior motive. In my experience, the soul generally wishes to please... to seek kinship with the audience.

Many performers seem reluctant to rely on the beautiful simplicity of their soul's inherent qualities of goodness, and fall into a forced 'act' which inevitably reminds me of cheap deoderant.

Perhaps it is the difference between a control trip, and unconditional love. Love for life itself.
ttr

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 12:48 PM

I have played in bands where I felt somewhat compelled to adopt a personna. At first I thought it was funny. Then, like the CIA guy, I found it a bit wearing, and I finally resented it altogether. So I quit. I have found it's true for me, if it doesn't come from within, the personna thing is a sham.
Jim

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 02:05 PM

For years I played 100% sober, staring my audience right in the eyes. I meant what I sang, and I sang what meant something - you could see it in my eyes (or so I was told). It must have been tough on the casual listner, though, because the mass audience didn't start liking me until I started wearing a broad brimmed hat. With the hat on, you couldn't see my eyes; no one knew where I was looking or what I was thinking. people seemed to like that better.

Later on, when I started drinking with the crowd, they really liked me. I was one of them, not some elitist "artiste". Oh, we struck up a fine relationship: the regular crowd and the guy with the hat who sang.

Unfortunately, what was good for the persona was not so good for the person. Drinking is an occupational hazard when you're traveling in bar bands. Eventually you quit taking care of business. Now I just play what I want, when I can, to whoever shows up. If I feel like having a drink or wearing a hat, I do. If not, it doesn't really matter. It's all about the music once again, and I feel better about the whole thing.

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 02:22 PM

D*mn, Thomas, I am getting old. I tell the stories and forget to include the pithy moral.

I think the "your pal in the hat" persona is a part of me, but a part that I am not comfortable enough to bring out in front of strangers. At least, not sober. The hat was a convenient way to disguise the truth from the audience; when people can't look you in the eyes they don't have access to that "window to your soul".

Performance Tip: Short of wearing an actual mask, a hat that covers your eyes is the easiest place to hide on stage (it also keeps the spotlights out of your eyes, which allows you to see the audience better).

In short, the best persona is one that is comfortable for the performer and memorable for the audience. If the performer is not comfortable in the persona, he or she will derive little pleasure from success. Eventually, the performer begins to resent the success that the persona (thought of as "he" or "she", rather than "I") garners; never a healthy situation. And if the persona is not memorable, what's the point?

Bart,
his rambling, old, hopefully memorable, self

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: guest(intruder-inactive)
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 08:24 PM

the only "performing" i ever did (aside from entertaining the kids) was sales
and, imnabho, the persona is far more real than anything else
it is something you've chosen, and honed, and cultivated
and if you are very careful and a wee bit wise, you develop into a person

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: hesperis
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 10:01 PM

Yes, Bart. Exactly.

And, ggg(i), nice way of putting it!

Subject: RE: Persona... is it real?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Mar 01 - 01:12 PM

Bartholomew said:"Eventually, the performer begins to resent the success that the persona (thought of as "he" or "she", rather than "I") garners; never a healthy situation."

Marily Monroe hated the persona she presented to the world, referred to it as "she" or "her". I read an article by a woman who was a friendly acquaintance of MM's. They were walking down the street, MM just being an average person, not doing "the walk" or any of the mannerisms. No-one noticed her, except maybe as another pretty woman. Then she said to her companion, "Watch this. Now I'll do HER." Without any great outward change, suddenly she was MARILYN MONROE! People reacted right away, with stares, some autograph requests, etc. It's said that MM was rather bitter about "her".

Dave Oesterreich