What We've Learned from the Masters?

Subject: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 May 01 - 02:22 PM

What have you learned about performing, from the great masters of folk?

I'll start off.

I learned, by seeing Seamus Kennedy tell jokes I know he has told many times, about the importance of enjoying what you do, and enjoying the audience's enjoyment, SO MUCH, that you wait relaxedly for the people to get up to speed with you in the delivery of the punch line, and then you wait relaxedly for the punch line to work its way through the crowd (and yourself) before escalating on to the next bit or a song that will shift the mood. It was not mere technique-- though I suppose that helps too. It was a real love for the way people let go when they "get it." A willingness to stand there frankly enjoying the audience.

I learned, by looking around me (at his recent sets at Godfrey Daniels) at the crowd, the importance of balancing "guy stuff" and "chick stuff." I think Seamus just does what he and the people love... but at one point I could distinctly see that the guys and girls were each getting a turn at what would release them into what I referred to as a sighing joy. And what seemed to give them this was different for most of the men and most of the women.

These seem to be related to not only doing what one does from the heart, but being aware of doing it that way and applying all one's skill and professionalism to do it so it's effective for THEM.

How 'bout you?

~Susan

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: mousethief
Date: 15 May 01 - 02:26 PM

For some reason I thought this thread was about golf.

I learned from Bob Dylan that you can become rich and famous without having anything like a pleasant voice.

And I learned from Tom Paxton that virtually anything can be made in to a funny song.

I'm sure I've learned more but it's lunchtime and I want to go get some.

Alex

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: GUEST,tex
Date: 15 May 01 - 02:56 PM

seems like you've got a pretty good handle of the people i've had the oppurtunity to watch and try to learn from being yourself and communicating that with the audience and gaining their acceptance of that a lot of folks have acts that they regularly do(which is fine ) as long as they beleive in them enough to get the people beleiving it too i've found it tricky at times a true performer the likes of ray wylie hubbard they are few and far between but hubbard was always one of the finest bullshit artist irt has been my good fortune to have known from way back in the begining i'm sure that performing can be taught but some are just born with a natural affinity for it i'm not quite that fortunate (i have to struggle for what i can get of it)

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: Matt_R
Date: 15 May 01 - 03:08 PM

Folk? Oh never mind then...

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: Kim C
Date: 15 May 01 - 04:25 PM

Here's what I've learned from everybody I've ever seen, not just folk: Have a good time on stage. If you're having fun, your audience is having fun, and if you make a mistake, just laugh! It ain't nothin but a thang. And if you share your gifts honestly, people will appreciate them more.

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 May 01 - 05:51 PM

If you climb up on top of the ball wash, you might fall off and bust your head open.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: Stevangelist
Date: 15 May 01 - 10:45 PM

If I have learned anything from the masters of folk or any other kind of music, it is to do your own thing in your own unique way and don't listen to the boo-hissers who want to dissect and distill and "analyze" your music and its influences. Do what your heart and your spirit lead you to do and if you are honest with yourself, your music will reflect that honesty.

May The Road Rise To Meet You,

Stevangelist

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: kendall
Date: 15 May 01 - 11:18 PM

I learned from Pete Seeger to be myself. To relax and realize that there are no enemies in the audience, and to pretend that I am in someones living room. In the past, I only sang funny songs. Now, I let it all hang out and sing some of the ones that tear me up ( Lonesome Robin) and know that it is ok, that if someone sees a tear in my eye it's ok, and I dont have to pretend that it is a speck of dirt that causes the drainage.

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 May 01 - 11:43 PM

I like what Kim C and kendall said.......I firmly believe that 95% of the audience does not know you made a mistake, and the other 5% don't care. Have fun making music, and the audience (if there is one) will have fun too. Tonight proved it. I royally screwed up Road to Lisdoonvarna-----the one I can play in my sleep. We all laffed.

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 15 May 01 - 11:49 PM

I have learned that there are many people who play better than me. There are many that sing better than I do. There are some who perform better than me. But I am the only one who has my perspective. I know the mix of songs and stories that put together correctly will create an entertaining evening with my spin on it.

A guitar player can have all the technique and mechanical skill in the world but if there is no spark in the playing, it will all sound dull.

How many times have we heard a person with a wonderful voice sing the wrong material and sound awful. And then Ronnie Drew or Malvina Reynolds come out to sing and the room just breathes magic.

I think I have learned the secret is first be an entertainer, then learn the tools you will use in your work.

I learned that watching my Dad 40 years gone when he and the rest of his gang did a minstral show for the Jordan PTA. Until that time I thought Dad just told stories and sang in car and the kids and I would laugh and sing along. Then I heard my Dad do Mississippi Mud as he danced a credible soft shoe while he played his Marine Band and the whole town was singing along and clapping. He told a story that had the crowd rolling in their seats and then he sang a heartbreaker to no dry eye in the house.

Dad never sang in a band and to my knowledge never sang on stage again. 1960 was probably the last year ever for a Minstral Show anyway. From then on his stories were limited to long car rides, fishing trips to the St. Lawrence or campfires in the Adirondaks. But he was a masterful entertainer.

Don

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: gus C
Date: 15 May 01 - 11:59 PM

I learned from Daffy Duck how to perform the great nitroglycerine trick, but saddly I have to save it for my final performance, it is a trick you can only perform once. Until then I will just have to try to be as incindary as Son House.

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 May 01 - 12:01 AM

Sigh.... wow, all!

~S~

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 May 01 - 03:48 AM

To be suspicious of the background bird calls you hear there.

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: kendall
Date: 16 May 01 - 09:44 AM

Right on Don M. there are entertainers, and there are performers. I know some performers who put on a very impressive show, but, seldom connect with the audience. They get by on sheer ability. There are entertainers who, although less accomplished, are able to get the crowd eating out of their hands in the first few minutes (Pete Seeger) I know a guy who plays guitar like he invented it, but, he used to come out onto the stage, and, by then he had convinced himself that they would be against him, so, he immediatly alienated the audience with comments and negative energy. What a waste of talent! He gave up performing and, I dont know what happened to him. Maybe he checked into the Neil Young center for the terminally screwed. Probably giving workshops on what is wrong with them!

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: Kim C
Date: 16 May 01 - 11:32 AM

This all got me to thinking about Grandpa Jones. If there is one old-timer I really, really miss, it's Grandpa. He was in his 80s, and half the time could barely hear so he sang off-key a lot, and forgot words too. But I don't know that ANYBODY ever had more fun on stage than him. Listening to the Opry really was like havin yer granddad in the livin room.

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 May 01 - 12:59 PM

Here's a link to more of what I saw at Seamus' sets, and schedule info:

CLICK HERE

---

OK. So... we have talked about the professional's attention being on the audience, and the excellence of that attention. Its presence, its direction, and its quality.

Now... what about building set lists? What have you noticed about good set lists? And from whom did you learn it?

~Susan

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: Allan C.
Date: 17 May 01 - 01:45 PM

If you look here you will see a short story about one of the most important lessons I ever learned. The lesson had just as much to do with guitar-playing technique as it did with performing. Come to think of it, there may have even been a life lesson in there as well.

With regard to set lists, I find them to be helpful if I simply cannot think of what song to play next. But other than that, I find them to be somewhat restrictive. So very much depends upon audience reaction.

If I get very little enthusiasm from my first song, then I had best follow it with one that is at least as good. However, if I should get very good vibes from the first one, it may be a good idea to get my weakest song out of the way by doing it next. Then eventually you have to decide whether to end with a rousing handclapper or perhaps with a "thinker". Feedback is of primary importance in deciding such things. A set list, to me, is only a rough guide.

But then, you have to bear in mind that I haven't really performed all that much.

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: kendall
Date: 17 May 01 - 01:50 PM

Kim, Granpa Jones has always been one of my favorite entertainers. I dont know what he did to his banjo, but, I'd like to find one that sounds just like it. He offered to sell me one that he and another guy built, but, 30 years ago, $200.00 was a piece of change. I too miss him.

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: Kim C
Date: 17 May 01 - 05:35 PM

The only other person now on the Opry that plays old-time banjo and tells funny stories is a young guy from Gleeson, TN, named Mike Snider. And he is one hot picker. He also writes humorous songs, one being about a man who gives his wife a surprise: She's Really Puttin on the Dog When She Goes Out At Night.

Set lists.... set lists... well... it depends on how long we're playing, and who we're playing to. Since we have a tape we like to sell, we try to play stuff that's on the tape. We just sort of mix it up without much rhyme or reason. We've even been known to put the song titles in a tin cup and just draw them out one by one. Kinda fun.

A friend of ours who was a traveling musician back in the 50s/60s, recommended to us to put together several different set lists, and memorize them, so you always know what's coming next. That's okay I guess, but too much like work for me. ;-)

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: kendall
Date: 17 May 01 - 06:09 PM

A set list is too much structure for me. I do whatever the spirit moves me to do at the time.

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 17 May 01 - 06:12 PM

- be humble about your talent
- don't show them everything you know in one or two songs
- always leave the audience wanting more - look after the business end of things (so you don't end up like Roy Clark endorsing 100.00 guitars in infomercials)
- love what you do
- be versatile
- no matter how succesful you become, stay hungry
- know the difference between opportunity and an opportunist
- doesn't matter how inept you are as long as you stay at a Holiday Inn

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jun 01 - 07:28 AM

A belated welcome to Mudcat, DJH. How'd I miss that posst?

~S~

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: Dan Keding
Date: 08 Jun 01 - 08:20 PM

What have I learned? I learned that the audience is more important than I am and so is the story or song I'm performing - if you want a long career its the material not the person. I learned that when all is said and done I do what I do and hope for the best. I've learned from my elders that prima donnas don't get hired back - its better to have a reputation as a reliable, good person than a great musician who's a pain in the ass.

As far as set lists, I never use them. I have my first story ready and after that I watch and listen to the audience and make it up as I go along - if I sense a serious mood I tell serious stories, funny then funny tales, I try to feel the mood and expectations of the audience and go with that.

Take care,

Dan

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: Jande
Date: 08 Jun 01 - 10:11 PM

Ive learned from the masters that emotionality is more important than technique. That becoming the song communicates itself to the listeners. And that I can only do that once a night for each song.

A few days ago, for the first time in years, I sang the very first song I'd ever written (The Leprechaun) for Mal and Melissa, all the way through from memory, and they were so delighted they asked me to do it again. When I complied I couldn't remember the words! I kept getting the lines mixed up and in the wrong places. That happens all the time. The first time I sing it, I can become the song.

As far as set lists go... I have to keep a list, but I don't necessarilly keep to it. I have an extremely poor memory, and tend to go blank if I get nervous, so having that list, and maybe even the lyric sheets handy has a calming effect. But I tend to choose songs to perform from the list that I feel I can get into --that I can become, me and the song as one.

~ Jande

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 11:14 AM

A MudBuddy sent me a tape this week and I learned something important as a result.

It was an acoustic blues tape, and included several blues gospel pieces, which was why he had sent it-- so I could learn them for our weekly Saturday Night Service. One was by Big Bill Broonzy, and I had never heard it before--- "Hush, Hush, Somebody's Calling Me." If you have never heard it, its sound is from the foundation time when blues was making that early rock and roll baby.... but interspersed is this quiet "Now Hush... Hush!...." before he bursts back out with "SOMEbody's calling me...."

I loved it right off. Made me sing in a new way... I love getting these tunes that are outside my own experience because they add a layer of vocal capability I might not otherwise have reached for and found. New territories of voice. In the mimicking, I find a new Susan in there too, that comes along most willingly!

So here is what I learned.

At last night's service-- this one older guy who is always full of trouble-making joy comes in, and stops at the piano next to me to pick up the night's song sheets.

He's been a real encouragement to me in the material we've been extending into of late.... so I thought right away of how in a couple of weeks, he will especially enjoy: Hush... hush.... SOMEBODY'S CALLING ME now hush... hush....

Thinking of this, I grinned back most illegally without saying a word.

He sez, also grinning wider, "What bad thing are you thinking of teaching us NOW?"

I sang back, "Hush! Hush! (grinning pause) Somebody's calling me, it must be the voice of the Lord!" Whole place cracked up.

Next a couple of pretty straight parishioners came in, visiting on a Saturday night for a change, and we were still laughing. So they got a taste of how we open the service with BSEG's on our faces most of the time. And I sang wonderfully because that little moment had lightened up everything. The visitors had a great time... and the last time they had visited, it had all been WAY too serious.

This was a big lesson for me. A chance to spot something we had been doing well, unconsciously, and from now on we will do it with intention.

I am going to make it a theme song to do whenever I am in a situation where I am feeling a little fear about how people will take what we are doing, or when I am worried about my voice, as I have intermittent voice problems.

So to the fella who sent me Big Bill and some other really kicked-up stuff, THANKS, for all of that!

~Susan

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 11:07 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: GUEST,Celtic Soul
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 02:25 PM

I learned not to take myself seriously. If you screw up, screw up BIG, and enjoy your own imperfections.

Conversely, I learned that accepting others screw ups (no matter *how* much better you think you are than they) makes for a much nicer world (musical and otherwise).

I learned that I have a *looooooong* way to go, and that there is *no* such thing as "getting there". That it is all about the journey.

I learned that, if it is not fun, don't do it.

I learned that, even when it stops being fun, you'll still want it.

I learned that there is no one way to do a thing, but there are some wrong ways.

I learned that humility before the fact makes it a lot easier after the fact to deal with messing up.

I learned that "professionalism", "good musician", and "nice person" are not synonymous, and if you *ever* meet up with someone who has all the above, you better darned well pay attention.

Subject: RE: What We've Learned from the Masters?
From: GUEST,JUKEJOINTDADY
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 04:19 PM

In the style of the wisdon: LESS IS MORE.