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BS: Judgement call for teachers--help!
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Subject: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: bbc Date: 18 May 01 - 05:26 PM As I was still basking in new tenure glory, I got a talking-to by my principal. The issue is whether I used inappropriate words to my students. Now, all of you may be naturally more socially correct than I am & I may be opening myself up for abuse (As low as I'm feeling right now, it wouldn't matter much.), but here goes. One of my 6th graders went home & told her mom that I had used the "b" word & that I had called them idiots. The mom immediately called the principal & expressed "concern" Here's my story--First, I used the word "bitchy," referring to myself--once--several months ago. As soon as I saw that the kids reacted, I realized that I had been in error & haven't used the word again. I was accused of referring to my students as "idiots." What I actually said was something to the effect--"acting *like* idiots," but that is evidentally too fine a line for elementary-aged students. The bottom line, that is making me very uncomfortable, is that I am accountable to an unwritten list of unknown words--some combination of obscene & PC. I feel like I'm going to need to walk on eggshells from now on, not knowing if I may err until something comes back to bite me. Here's my question--Help me compile a list of words that you suppose would be unacceptable to use in front of grade 4-6 students? Thanks for your help; it may keep me my job. Here's a start-- bitchy, idiot, jerk, stupid, bum bbc (depressed & w/ flagging self-esteem in NY) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Eric the Viking Date: 18 May 01 - 05:55 PM From long experience with behaviouraly disturbed children, I have used all sorts of language, mostly so we share a common language base and make an understanding that leads to mutual respect. I never belittle a child, even when I have expressed myself to them in they language they have used to me or others. This doesn't last long as they are often shocked when they realise that what i am doing is mirroring their own behaviour. it often leads to a change in attitude at least around me as they know I will not accept bad language. By 6th grade I assume you mean six years in school rom tha age of 4-5 making them 11. I would ask them what words they call each other when they are upset, cross, angry, frustrated etc. This has two points. 1 It compiles a list of words that are commonly used by them. 2 It gives you a list of words that you can either avoid completely(It's late and I'm tired so excuse quick typing and spelling mistakes) Or a list of words that they use and which you can quote back at them as being acceptable. I think your problem is not the words you used but the obvious lack of support from your manager. As a teacher of long years, successful and respected, liked by the children. My morale is at an all time low due to the extremely poor management in my school.Managers who lie to all and sundry, decieve, and are openly hostile to one another and some members of staff (not me I am glad to say)and who pass the buck when there is the slightest chance of anything dropping back on their laps. One wise teacher told me many years ago that it's not you, it's always the kids.A wise and respected headteacher I enjoyed working for told me, remember-we can always get more kids, good staff are hard to find. Cheer up, the holidays will soon be here. Our school is being inspected this next week-worse than the Spanish inquisition!!!! Bye Eric |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: katlaughing Date: 18 May 01 - 05:57 PM moron, reject, dump, fairy, welfare-mom/dad, fool..OH, bbc! It's going to be an endless list! I know my sisters walk on eggshells being so careful what they say to their students, too. I do not envy you or them, today. Another one: loser. I agree with Eric, too...it has a LOT to do with the admin. having no backbone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Penny S. Date: 18 May 01 - 05:58 PM Best wishes for the inspection Eric - been there.... Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: mousethief Date: 18 May 01 - 06:00 PM crap or crappy (rhymes with happy) should also be avoided. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: GUEST,tequilaron Date: 18 May 01 - 06:00 PM Rather than contributing to the list, I can offer a bit of catch-all advice. Don't say anything to a student or to the class that you wouldn't say if the principal or their parents were standing there. I have taught in a very conservative area for over 30 years, and I have learned that it just takes one student to misinterpret something and cause big problems for teachers. I knew a teacher one time who told a rather large ninth grade girl to "sit down! You are a disturbing element." The next day the teacher was called in by the principal to meet with the girl and her "madder than a boiled owl" mother. The mother angrily cried, "Why did you call my child a scurvy elephant?" The first rule of teaching: Parents always believe the child. Hang in there. This too shall pass. Ron. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: InOBU Date: 18 May 01 - 06:01 PM On of the great professors at NYU is a welshman whose name escapes me at present. He is one of the most progressive teachers, and was the first Professor to back the boycot of colorado re anti gay laws... Well one day he said, if Conspiracy is the prosicutors lover, RICO is the prosicutors mistress. Women in his class brought this to the bias committee. He said, fine, Oxford has been asking me to teach there, and I would rather go home, so we can have your little inquest, and I will not show up, but rather go home, or we can forget this sillyness. The sillyness was forgoten. - Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Eric the Viking Date: 18 May 01 - 06:05 PM Thankyou Penny- we are in deep feaces-our management is a total mess. Class teaching is pretty good, but management has caused such low morale, long term stress related illness prevails for good few-me I'm on the ledge with a very thin bit of string.Others rely on pills, booze etc. I have my family-which I never see as I'm always up here working till late,(my kids think I'm a troll that lives in the loft and operates a computer, writing out plans and things,My wife goes to bed a eight, because she's bored to death waiting for me to come down to talk to her-luckily she understands, though thinks I'm mad) my music and mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Sorcha Date: 18 May 01 - 06:07 PM Any word that refers to sexual orientation, race or ethnic backgroud, religious preference, or any "challenged" ability. I would be careful also of trying to use "challenged" in a humorous way.....such as "vertically challenged". Don't refer to body size. Any word that could be remotely interpreted as either a sexual body part or name calling. Name calling of any sort is probably un-acceptable. I would not be happy to be called a "scurvy elephant" and I doubt if you would be either. My advice: Don't say things to your students that you would not want said to your children or yourself........ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Chicken Charlie Date: 18 May 01 - 06:55 PM BBC-- Mechanics will work themselves out--i.e. a "list" will be created, etc. But the main thing I want to say right now is, "Don't beat yourself up over this. Use it as the easier described than lived-through "learning experience." If it's any consolation, I can assure you that your administrator is also whimpering at the bottom of his/her mental foxhole, feeling equally caught in the crossfire. [That's why I been there & done that but won't any more.] The last thing is, and this is NO consolation--"No brag, just fact," as Walter Brennan used to say in one of his curmudgeon roles: I never met an administrator who thought it was part of his/her job to spare subordinates from unfair, unjust or overly hysterical criticism. Again, this is SO easy to say, but let go of the baggage. Life is not fair; most efforts to make it fair are wasted effort. The best we can do is learn to do our personal best at any given moment in unfair conditions. Now go learn to play "Mary Ellen Carter" by Stan Rogers on the instrument of your choice, and "call me in the morning." :) CC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: bbc Date: 18 May 01 - 06:57 PM Thank you all for your comments so far. I'm getting a few laughs (much needed right now). I do appreciate the perspective of imagining my principal or parents in the room or thinking how I want my own children treated by their teachers. Eric, I sympathize w/ your situation. Previous to this job, I'd been in 3 schools that treated me dirty, one way or another. Part of what makes me so sad about this is that I've been quite happy in this position & w/ my administrators till now. I feel like the bottom's fallen out & I'll never feel secure again. My youngest child is in his 2nd year of high school. I just decided that, when this job ends, I will not seek another teaching position. Just too much crap (Yup, there goes my mouth again!). The reason I started this thread is that, although I am being held accountable, the list of proscribed words is unpublished. When I inquired, I was told to use "good judgement." The rumor was circulating among the students all day that I was going to be fired. Wonder if it's true? bbc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Boab Date: 19 May 01 - 01:08 AM I'm not a teacher, but happen to be hitched to one, so I can understand your predicament.My partner had occasion to draw a star on the blackboard one day, in grade 1, 2,and, apropos of nothing, whipped the chalk around it in a circle. She was accused by the parents of one precocious six-year-old of teaching the kids witchcraft!! Words not to use in front of the class? Hmm!--as a Scottish ex-miner, I could compile a list--short or long---of words that would get me thrown off Mudcat! Boab |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: GUEST,_gargoyle Date: 19 May 01 - 01:29 AM 1. You are a new teacher 2. Therefore, you are vulnerable....
3. Step-back from the IMMEDIATE moment.
4. Move into a dialectic "decision-tree."
......A. I MUST....keep this JOB!!! ................1. Bend over to the MAX accept it like a queer.
.....C. I am a premium product...in a defficet economy....I can demand my own price:
In Other Words....Use the basic free-marketing analysis you learned in undergraduate school.
You ARE a premium product...do not accept less than a premium compensation....
To accept ANYTHING less ... is a betrayal of your colleagues.
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: catspaw49 Date: 19 May 01 - 01:50 AM And now from the foulest mouth on the 'Cat............. Forget it. Beebs, have you listened to the kids in an unsupervised situation? If so................. Now I expect my son Michael to know more than a few because his old man uses them, but never do I use words relating in derogatory terms to race, gender, sexual preference, etc, etc. So the other day Karen here's him say to another kid that he's being "niggered." Karen takes him aside and asks about it. He had no idea what it meant so we explained it......and since one of his good friends at school is African-American it was a good thing. Now he does understand and was sort of amazed that something was different about his buddy. Sadly, we live in a small village that for all it's virtues is very rascist. He thought the word sounded funny and the boy likes to get laughs.......I don't know where he got that. The biggest thing is simply to move on and forget it. Families are offended at all types of words and often the "most proper" of parents have kids who have the biggest improper vocabularies. Your principal should have discussed it with you, seen it for what it was, and said, "Don't do it again...........even if you feel bitchy." I was fortunate as a teacher to have a supervisor with a sense of humor and firm backing of her teachers. She was very good.......Connie still treats her as a "Mom." Go back in and apologize. Say thanks for the "good direction" and that you have "thought long and hard" and are determined not to ever let your guard down. Discuss your word list and all that sort of thing and ask if they have any others to add. The supervisor will feel like they did their job and will probably give you a few more pointers. Again say thank you and ask if you can sometimes just check in to see how things are going under your "new outlook." The super will again be pleased that they can help you and may even throw in another tip or two. Now leave with a smile and another "thank you" and as you get out of earshot, out of the corner of your mouth say, "Screwed over that dumbass sumbitch." Then go on and do your job as only you can and everyone else will ask why you're smiling. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Date: 19 May 01 - 05:54 AM You've gotten great advice here, dearest Barb, and you know I can empathize with you. There are some parents who are armed for bear and their kids delight in running home to report teachers' minor misdemeanors and anything that can be interpreted as such. Now: keep your language squeaky-clean, use "I" statements, "catch kids doing good" as a motivator in really awful classes, and save extreme statements for that once-a-year occasion when you want to shock 'em into straightening up and flying right ("Yell" at the class no more than once a year!). I'm afraid that you really can't tell them they're acting like idiots, (a bigger insult would be "acting like kindergarteners, but my kindergartners are better behaved than some of my 5th graders!). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: bbc Date: 19 May 01 - 09:16 AM You are all wonderful. It has crossed my mind on various occasions that I may not be cut out to survive in the public school setting. Funny, since I just, supposedly, made tenure. My current school is the least hypocritical that I've worked in. I've just disacovered that, even here, things can bite you. My guess (although I can't face my accuser) is that a 6th grade girl who I had confronted w/ inappropriate behavior went home w/ the intent of getting me in trouble. Here's the overall picture--Our 6th graders are in their last 4 weeks at our school & in the midst of hormonal upheaval. Hence, they are almost impossible to control. I am a special area teacher (library) who is directed to teach an academic lesson once a week to each class. In my four 6th grade classes, about 1/3 of the kids are ready to listen & participate, about 1/3 could care less & are completely out of control, & 1/3 could go either way. I've been getting increasingly frustrated, since (fool that I am) I feel my lessons could be of value to the kids. One thing I've realized is that, next year, I'm going to be more careful to schedule lessons that require listening at times of the year when the kids are more capable of listening. So, emotionally, that's what's going on. The other aspect is that, at home, our family language is considerably more liberal than is apparently acceptable at my school (although no one will tell me what is acceptable & what isn't). I've never found it easy to be PC or politically savvy. Generally, I love my students & think, all-around, I'm a pretty decent person, but in terms of language, I guess I'm really quite liberal (Hear that, Mick & kendall?). Amazing. My principal's tone, when he spoke w/ me, was non-judgemental & respectful of me (but I still felt that I'd be lectured). He suggested that I might need more Responsive Classroom training & directed me to say a few words this coming week to each of my 6th grade classes, regarding respect. He told me, in so many words, that I don't need to apologize (implicit in that was unless I feel I have something for which to apologize). I have no problem w/ that. Ironically enough, I suspect I am more open w/ & more accepting of my classes than virtually anyone else in the building. In fact, I've decided to speak w/ all of my classes & I started yesterday. I am willing to give a kind of George Bush apology--not admitting wrongdoing, but expressing regret if my words or actions have offended. I'm also asking that we all take a deep breath & make a fresh start for the last 4 weeks of school. I feel like I've been smacked in the face w/ a reminder that teachers aren't permitted to have emotions or, at least, aren't permitted the luxury of expressing them. My classes treat me w/ disrespect each & every day, but, as an adult & a teacher, I am just to take it & model perfection to them. As I drove home yesterday in tears, I resolved that, whether I am fired or leave this job voluntarily at some time in the future, I will never again take a teaching position. It's a shame, because, in my heart of hearts, I know that I care more about helping my students to become effective & happy adults than most of the teachers in my building. Yes, spaw, I smiled & thanked those who were correcting me. In one part of my mind, I truly did appreciate their help. At the same time, I felt like a hypocrite & I thought they were assholes. The only thing I don't know is if they really believe the game or if they are hypocrites, too. One more block has been added to my pile of cynicism, one more chip has been removed from my stock of self-esteem, & I'm not as happy in my job as I was 2 days ago. The bottom line is that I am still a single parent w/ myself & 2 kids to support & I need my job. So, I will go Monday & do my best to keep it, while, at the same time, trying to maintain some level of personal integrity. Permit me the luxury here of stating that, right now, my foremost emotion is that it sucks! Thanks for listening. bbc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: GUEST,Lucius Date: 19 May 01 - 07:01 PM I hope that you can bear one more story. I was in my first month of teaching elementary music. I was teaching my first grade class "Down by the Bay" with the students taking turns at adding punch lines like "did you ever see a whale with a polka dot tail?" After about the twentieth "did you ever see a bear (deer; steer, etc, etc.) in his underwear?" I "banned" the word from my class. Sure enough they showed up the next week with a variety of lines, none mentioning underwear, and I thought that was the end of it. Wrong. I'm sitting in the teachers lounge at lunch when the first grade teacher leans over the table to tell me how happy the children were to return to music class. Then--once the rest of the teachers are listening--she asked me to explain why one of her students admonished the class "and remember, NO underwear". Fortunately, she knew that the whole thing was in innocence, but it did not deprive her of any pleasure to see my face blush into seven shades of red. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: bbc Date: 21 May 01 - 05:42 AM Lucius, Thanks for the "no underwear." Laughs are appreciated right now. Just wanted to bring this back to the top one more time, in case folks that only have Internet access during the work week have any input for me. I'm off to work; gonna try to readjust my thinking & get through the end of the school year. Ironically, today is the Teacher Appreciation Luncheon hosted by the parents group. Wish me luck! bbc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 21 May 01 - 10:43 AM Good luck bbc. I think bringing music and joy to kids is a high priority in any school. Don't let any of the negativity get you down. Live and learn, and roll with the punches. You asked...so here's my advice...
1) Don't use the "B" word. (or booger, or any bathroom word) You can be well-liked and respected, and can be their friend, but you can't be their pal. You are the adult in the room, so get used to being the "heavy." When they say "You're just like my mom," it really is a compliment. Sometimes a music teacher or a substitute teacher doesn't know all the history that every other student and teacher knows. They like to set traps to catch the "outsider" (music teacher or substitute) breaking the rules. The girls in this age group like to pout, and the boys can really act out. Many times they cannot tell you what they feel, but will slip little notes to you. I think the hardest thing about teaching music to this age group is keeping them busy. I had to substitute elementary music one day in a private school. I learned a lot from observing the other teachers and their tricks for organizing group activities. One music teacher in particular used a program which emphasized making instruments and playing them. If you're interested in the resources, I could probably come up with it after a few phone calls. My daughter teaches elementary school, and they have dulcimer classes for the kids there. I could probably get some resources here too. Good luck, let us hear how things are going. Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: KingBrilliant Date: 21 May 01 - 11:13 AM Not quite in the same league but it might make you laugh: Mark has just started work as a handy-man at the local University halls of residence. Last Thursday he spent part of the day on a customer care course - where they were being taught how to be nice to the students & treat them as customers. When he got home he told me he expected to get into big trouble. That very same day he had been asked by one of the lads whether his bedroom window could be fixed - Mark unthinkingly replied 'No mate, its f*cked.' Ooops! Sometimes these things just slip out.. Kris (PS - it was indeed completely f*cked, but was replaced - so we can all sleep cosy in our beds after all). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 21 May 01 - 11:18 AM I've had students complain because I didn't smile. SMILE? What do they want, blood? RtS (miserable old git) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 21 May 01 - 01:02 PM bbc, sorry, I thought you said you were teaching music. I knew you were a librarian, but just jumped too fast when I read Lucius' post. I'm making some broad assumptions here, so disregard anything off-base. It appears that you are in a higher socioeconomic district. I taught in an unusual mix of very high and very low demographics. We had project kids mixed with professional's kids. If you are dealing with the higher socioeconomic group, the problem isn't the kids, it's the parents! It's expected for a 12-year-old girl to set you up and complain about something you said or did...it's stupid for the parents and administrators to buy into it. What can you do? Don't let it get you down. You need allies in the other teachers, so find some that are sympathetic. Don't confide to a group in the teacher's lounge, only talk about sensitive issues one-on-one. Keep your language formal during official instruction times. Be aware of cultural and age sensitivities. (Don't touch minority children, never comment about a girl's weight, clothes, appearance.) Don't talk about yourself. (Kids this age will pump you for personal details.) Ask other teachers what the buzz words are, and just listen to the language around you. I've stepped into all kinds of land mines here. Also, never use a personal possessive pronoun with ANY noun. (don't say MY "anything") You can't know all the meanings because they change every year and are different in different areas and cultures. I'm also assuming this is more of a management issue than just language. I think you are about my height (5'3" hmmmmm?) so we have to use tricks that tall people don't have to resort to! If you need any, I can PM you a book! I assume that in addition to your library duties you teach various enrichment type classes. Been there too! This can be the hardest because you don't always have control of the physical classroom or even the choice of content you teach. If there are computers anywhere, you can use them as a threat/reward for this age group. I was shocked in my first substitute teaching assignment when I realized how much the students loved computers and games. I assume that being a librarian, you are not always treated like the "real" teachers. Been there! The worst situation for me was teaching adolescents in the psychiatric section of a hospital. There was an unbelievable pecking order, and teachers were only above janitors. Once again, enjoy the kids, and find one or two empathetic collegues. I could say more, but this is already too long. Let us know how things are going. Remember, this really is the worst time of year for the age groups you're dealing with! Good luck. Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: nutty Date: 21 May 01 - 01:52 PM My standard reply to any child who threatened to tell their mother/father was :- "GOOD - I really would like a word with them" The subject was usually very quickly dropped On the very odd occasion that a parent did turn up I would turn to the child and say :- "Do you want to tell your mother/father why I was cross with you or shall I?" Remember that many parents who come in to school on the offensive are often reliving bad memories of their own time at school. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 21 May 01 - 02:35 PM I had many confrontations! But I never ONCE regretted a conference with the parents. Like Nutty said, tell the kids you would like to talk to their parents. I even followed one young fella to his mom's car after school. My principal pointed out that many parents have lost control of their kids, so try to impress them by telling the teacher off. When this happened in my conferences the kids were so ashamed of their parents that they were very contrite and the meeting was productive. Kids learn at an early age to divide and conquer. (But he/she said I could...) One of the main things I learned at the psychiatric hospital in dealing with disturbed teenagers (all teenagers IMO ;-)) is the intricate game playing used to divide the adults (parents, teachers, staff.) There really needs to be strong leadership at the top and a philosophy for handling this divisiveness. bbc, I wish your administrators were familiar with this philosophy, but I don't know of any way to bring it up without sounding accusatory. You need a support system. Ideally it would be from you administrators. Next would be your collegues. Know that you have support here. We're with you! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: bbc Date: 21 May 01 - 08:52 PM Thanks again. Mary, oddly enough, I *was* the music teacher today! We have a situation where we lost our choral music teacher mid-year & are having trouble keeping a substitute. I have 1 day a week that is a light class day for me. Last week on that day, I was called on 1 hour's notice to sub for 2 music classes before my library class. I had little choice but to do what the aides had usually been doing--show an irrelevant video to the kids, ie. babysit. I realized that this situation might come up again, so, this weekend, I pulled out my autoharp (I'm an amateur.), made up chord sheets for 2 patriotic & 2 folk songs & made class sets of lyric sheets for the students. Sure enough, today w/ 5 minute's notice, I found myself leading a real music class for 3 classes who'd been watching videos once a week for a month or more & the aide led "my* one class (They were just taking a test today, anyway.)! I had never done it before, but, all in all, it went over well. The kids enjoyed it & it was great for my self-esteem. How was that for being prepared? If you're interested, the songs were American, American the Beautiful, You Gotta Talk My Language, & My Grandfather's Clock. I realized that my job is probably not in danger. If it was, my principal probably would have called me to his office for an official appointment, rather than dropping by the library before school. Also, I hope at this point, I'm too multi-talented to let go. ;) I'm feeling some better & much of it is due to the kind input here. Mary, I do have a good friend at school who is a more experienced teacher & I have touched bases w/ her. For one thing, she said I can send a misbehaving student to her class to cool off. That's nice to know! Onward & upward! Thanks again! best to you all, bbc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Date: 21 May 01 - 09:13 PM Yay, bbc, music teacher of the week! You go, gal! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: catspaw49 Date: 21 May 01 - 09:50 PM Glad the day went better than what you expected and that you can see some light for a change Beebs!! AND, I'm really happy to hear about the Autoharp and the songs and that the kids were happy for your talents too. Using another teacher can be very good and when handled properly can work to your benefit. I do have a story on that one though................. Like Mary said, you are still the "adult" but I taught high school in a Vo-Ed and being able to be Mr. Patterson, Mr. P., and "Big Dog" as the moment required was an art I was happy to have and the kids pretty well understood which "personality" they needed to be dealing with. A lot of teachers had problems (for a host of reasons) with students who were no problem to me. The director decided that it might be a good idea to for me to "mediate" some of the problems by doing some classes with them or sending problem students to me. At first, I was a big hit with the other teachers because it smoothed things out for them, but I was really trying to demonstrate the difference in handling the "problem" students. After a couple months, two of the teachers went to Mrs. McGee and said, "This isn't right! It's certainly unfair and we can't have it." McGee asks what the problem is and the answer was, "Well, it just doesn't work. The kids are out of control, complete delinquents......Then Patterson comes in, puts his arm around a few shoulders, tells some jokes, and everything is fine! You are NOT supposed to touch students and his jokes are a little off-color. Sometimes he even makes fun of a student!" Well.........McGee asked if the kids responded and listened (they did). She asked if they seemed more attentive (yes) or if they minded Patterson's mannerisms (no) and then, bless her, McGee asked them if they saw where the problem might be. They didn't but they kept "teaching" anyway. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Cap't Bob Date: 21 May 01 - 10:53 PM bbc ~~~ Lots of luck. Having spent thirty years in the public school system I've been involved in many difficult situations. One was quite similar to what you just went through. A student goofing around during lab did something quite unnecessary that could have caused injury to other students. I told him "that was a stupid thing to do". He told his parents that I called him stupid and they immediately called the principal. Luckily several students heard what was actually took place. There was one instance that received national prominence involving our hunters safety teacher. One of his students was creating somewhat of a disturbance flailing around. He went back to see what was going on and the student showed him a fly that he had just killed. The student said something to the effect "what do you want me to do with it". The teacher jokingly said "In hunters safety .. if you kill something you eat it...". While the teacher was walking back to the front of the class the student apparently either ate the fly or pretended to do so. The story got out ~ newspapers reporters showed up and the story got into the national news. The end result was that the teacher was suspended without pay for the remainder of the school year. After around seven years enjoying retirement I decided to go back and a bit of sutstitute teaching. Most teachers tend to give the students a lot of busy work or show videos to keep the kids under control. In my case they tended to let me either do the assignment or especially in the elementary music department I could bring instruments into the classroom and have a great time with the young ones. The little kids just loved the ukulele and penny whistles. One of the most memorable experiences I've had as a teacher occurred one day after school when I was carrying my stuff across the parking lot and one of the little kids I'd had that day came running up to me and gave me a great big hug. Everything was going along just fine until one day in an American Lit. class I read a poem about an outhouse. It had nothing at all to do with any bodily functions. The poem was basically about the various seasons of the year as observed from an outhouse. They were studying living conditions in early the early years and I felt that the poem went along rather well with the assignment. Two girls went to the teacher the next day and told her that I had read something inappropriate in class. Without investigating the teacher went to the principal etc., etc., etc. The principal told me that one of the teachers said I had read something inappropriate in class and asked me about the poem. I gave him a copy and after reading it he apologized and told me there was no problem there whatsoever. I tried substituting after this but the magic was gone and somehow I felt like I was walking on egg shells all the time. Luckily the good times outweigh the bad. Cap't Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: bbc Date: 22 May 01 - 12:16 AM Yup, Bob, teachers are very much in the public eye & there are a lot of ways to go wrong. The pay & hours are pretty good, but sometimes you wonder why you keep trying. For me, part of it is that I am a mom & a Christian. I want to have a part in raising the youth of my country into functional, responsible adults, if possible. I know that many of my students have 2 working parents who can't spend as much of the time as they'd like to w/ their kids & I want to be a good adult role model &, yes, sometimes a friend to them. I wish you could have heard my 5th graders today, singing "America the Beautiful." They sounded great & I knew that I'd made the right choice in taking my weekend time preparing a "real" music lesson on the off chance I'd be called on to teach it. Sometimes, ya do it right. Back to bed. best, bbc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: marty D Date: 22 May 01 - 01:10 AM Bbc, my heart goes out to you. I don't think the issue is "PC" but simply one of being in front of "the wrong sixth grader" at the wrong time. You seem so articulate and caring that it's a shame a completely fabricated issue like this has even come up. I've pulled up some of your old posts (before you left) to read privately and I'd be extremely happy to have my kids taught by someone with your sensibilities. You'll be fine. By the way, was that the famous Gargoyle that caused so much grief here before I ventured in? Seems merely insane. Hardly someone to worry much about. marty |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: bbc Date: 22 May 01 - 05:59 AM marty, Just for the record, gargoyle was only supportive of me or left me alone. He had a real problem w/ people who thread-drifted or tended to post a lot of (in his opinion) inane threads. Others have had the same feelings, but been able to express them in more positive ways (or keep from expressing them). The last straw for me was "Why are Americans so fat?" As a thin American, I resented the implication, the space taken by the thread, & the generally negative tone of any fill-in-the-blank thread. Thank you for your kind comments. I'm still around; I just don't post as much. best, bbc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: GeorgeH Date: 22 May 01 - 07:05 AM bbc: OK, I've not read all this in detail ('cause I'm a little busy atm) but . . . one small addition! It's not only WHAT you say, it's how you say it. The most innocuous words can be said in a hurtful way, and some excellent teachers can manage to use "unacceptable" language in a manner and context which is both valuable and (almost!) beyond complaint (provided they don't do it too often). And no half-way decent teacher ever got through ANY year without having at least one parent complain, in my experience. ALWAYS show the students the same respect you expect them to show one another, and you. Try very hard to avoid offending or upsetting them unnecessarily. Accept your mistakes openly and honestly but without undue contrition. ("OK, that was stupid - clearly I've still a lot to learn" is about right!) ASK your critics how they could have handled the situation any better (suggest your principal gives you a demonstration lesson with your worst class). And good luck - the kids deserve people who care about teaching the way you clearly do! George (Who broke a student's wrist on his first day of teaching and still survived in the job for 18 years, but that's another story!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: GUEST,bbc at work (lunch time!) Date: 22 May 01 - 12:00 PM It has really been helpful to read each & every one of your posts, friends! I'm going to print them out, so that I can read them at the dinner table w/ Duane D. & davidmc24. I am particularly appreciative that nobody has seen fit to put me down. Yes, I realize I have some responsibility in this; my mouth is open too much to never make mistakes w/ it. I needed a reminder to watch what I say. Yes, I am often sorely provoked by my students' disrespectful behavior, but I still have a responsibility to model better behavior to them. Today, as I tried to follow my principal's directive to discuss respect w/ my 6th grade class, it was hard to get the noise level low enough for them to hear me. It *is* discouraging. At the same time, I don't want to give up on my students. Most teachers realize, I think, that we will not succeed w/ all of our students. We hope that some will benefit in some way from what we do. Sometimes, you even get precious feedback that you've been important in someone's life or learning. I guess my aspirations are modest. I want to care for my family & I want the world, at least in some small way, to be better because I was here. bbc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Mrrzy Date: 22 May 01 - 12:20 PM You never know. Once when I was teaching Sex Roles, we were discussing biological theories. The question came up about behaviors in which humans indulge which might not result in pregnancy, like oral sex; how could such a predilection evolve? So we're talking about fellatio and that's OK with everybody. Then further on in the discussion I used the term "blow job" instead of the more clinical term, and everybody jumped, blushed, and got horribly embarrassed (these are juniors and seniors in college, mind you). I pointed this out to them, and they all agreed that it was silly, but couldn't deny that it was much more embarrassing to talk about (slang term for sex act) than (clinical term for same sex act). And I heard about it later from the administration that I used "inappropriate" language. Excuse me, it was completely appropriate, it just made them realize that we were talking about THEM, not just some theoretical construct, and I consider that a pedagogical MUST. But I didn't do it again... nor did I get to teach that class again! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Sooz Date: 22 May 01 - 04:17 PM Good luck with the inspection Eric... we will get a date anytime now. It's like sitting on a time bomb. I sympathise with your management situation, ours is much the same. Plenty of music will help you to survive! It seems to work for me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: GUEST,Karen Date: 22 May 01 - 04:24 PM Regarding the "noise level" issue when the kids are too loud and you can't be heard. One way of dealing with this is to NOT speak up over their noise. Keep talking in your normal speaking voice. The students will learn that if they want to hear you they have to pipe down. Of course, most 6th graders don't want to listen anyway. :-( |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Mrs.Duck Date: 22 May 01 - 06:22 PM One of our Year 1s called our head a f***ing b***ard today and quite frankly I agree with him but he was sent home anyway!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Judgement call for teachers--help! From: Helen Date: 22 May 01 - 07:08 PM I haven't read all of this thread yet - saved it to read offline - but I have two things you can look up to make more sense of the teaching administrators and their wicked ways. It's not just teaching administrators, either, but they are among the worst offenders according to both of these resources. 1. Bully OnLine: Tim Field shares his unique insight into workplace bullying, a cause of stress and ill health and the basis of harassment, discrimination, abuse and violence http://www.successunlimited.co.uk/ Have a surf through this stuff. Read about bullying and its definitions. I was surprised to find that this is the name for what I had been subjected to as a student by a teacher to our whole class, by numerous managers and colleagues, culminating in the worst offender in the last couple of years. He, and my maths teacher, fit the "serial bully" profile - in other words, sociopaths. The best part of this site is that Tim Field gives hints, tips and techniques to deal effectively with this behaviour. Rule number one: ask for clearly articulated specifications of what the administrators want you to do. Saying "use your common sense" and not giving you a list of what is acceptable language is leaving the door open for you to be caught out again, because the goalposts are movable. Not just movable, but totally fluid. You'll never know what is ok and what is a punishable offence. 2. For a really good belly laugh, with some totally revelatory insights, read Laurence J. Peter's book called The Peter Principle. Based on his experience as a teacher and having to deal with administrators etc he came up with the law that "everyone rises to the level of his/her own incompetence". It's a bit long to describe here, but what it means is that we are competent at one level, the next level of promotion, etc until we get promoted to the point where we are not competent for that level of skills, responsibilities etc. Instead of being able to admit that we have reached that level, and bow out gracefully back to a more comfortable level, we have to sit it out, act like we know what we are doing, and get stressed to the max over it all. Some people resort to intimidation to pass the buck onto their subordinates. I've studied management, organisations, business, etc etc to higher degree level, but these two resources still stand out for me as two of the most definitive insights into management problems. Helen |