BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal

Subject: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Justa Picker
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 11:19 PM

Taking a cue from the thread On Stage Weirdness I ended up describing a personal experience I had 20 years ago here.

It got me thinking and I'm wondering if others have had personal experiences? Only share whatever you're comfortable with.

I'm absolutely fascinated with this subject, as well as temporary clinical death situations and out of body experiences, and have done a lot of reading on the subject by such authors as Raymond Moody, Ian Curry and others. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 11:35 PM

My take on this is that some people are psychically receptive and some are not. My level of psychic awareness is about as low as it is possible to get, yet my SO is extremely sensitive. She has sensed atmospheres in houses immediately, where I felt nothing, and sure enough, she was right every time, something nasty had happened there. But it all just sort of passes me by.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Pelrad
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 11:57 PM

Yep. I ignored it for nearly thirty years, and then it all crashed in on me when the ghost in our basement returned and fixated on me. He started following me around the house, which really creeped me out. Finally after about three weeks he came to stand outside my bedroom one night and I gave him a very stern talking-to. The next morning he was gone and I hope he stays gone. Turned out the entire family (mother, father, and at least one brother) had seen him before.

A few weeks ago I was up at the Penobscot Marine Museum in Maine and saw a man in one building, felt a young woman in another. The young woman's presence communicated itself pretty well, and as for the man, it was the first time I ever confused one with a real physical person. I actually turned to talk to him and didn't realize what I'd seen until he disappeared.

I used to see things all the time, but talked myself out of having seen them. They sometimes travel pretty far to talk to my mother, though.

My husband cannot sense them at all. I think my son can, though. He keeps asking me who the man in our kitchen was, the one who looked like Daddy but had black hair.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Pelrad
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 12:01 AM

P.S. Your story creeped me out. No way would I have stayed the night. I'm a real wuss about this stuff, which is why the basement man got on my nerves so easily. Apparently I went to school with his son, so you would think I'd be LESS scared of him...Nope.

We do have a poltergeist who leaves broken window glass around the house, but it's pretty quiet so that's okay.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Justa Picker
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 12:05 AM

It creeped me out experiencing it, believe me.
Can you describe your ghost more vividly?..skin color?..luminescence?...and how it was obvious to you it was a ghost?

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: wdyat12
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 12:22 AM

Paranormal? Humbug! Well I was a sceptic too, until one stormy night on the coast of Maine I had a violent argument with my father and left our new house in anger and disgust. As I ran down the road past the the old family lodge on the Kennebec Point Pennisula that my great grandfather built, the wires overhead began to glow with a green gaseous plasma. St. Elmos Fire was playing in the wires like it did in the rigging in the novel, Moby Dick. I had never seen this phenomenon before, yet I was familiar with it from what I had imagined while reading Moby Dick in my senior year of high school. I stood there in amazement and then ran back to the new house confused and scared. I passed my drunken father in the door and went to bed. I dreamed a very strange and disconcerting dream that night.

I was at the First Baptist Church in Georgetown, Maine. I was one of six pollbearers in a procession up the steps of the church. The air was still that day and it was hot and humid and everyone felt uncompfortable, but when we carried Dad inside the white curtains flowed like ghosts from the open windows. Many poeple I didn't know spoke of my father's life. I did not speak of or for my father then.

One year to the day I reexperienced this dream in reality and I was equally confused and scared as I was in that dream.

wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Pelrad
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 12:26 AM

Let's see... The guy in the basement I couldn't see with my eyes, only with my "mind's eye." Hard to explain. If I averted my eyes from the spot I could see him plain as day in my mind. He was about six foot three or four, burly, with black hair and a black beard, a red flannel plaid shirt, khaki-colored pants, and workboots. He had dark eyes, too. Sometimes he had a grin on his face. There was a heaviness in the air wherever he stood. I talked to him a few times but it made my hair stand on end when he responded (not out loud, just like words standing in my mind) so I didn't do that too often. Besides, I didn't want to encourage contact because he seemed to like me a little too much.

The first time I saw him I told myself there was no way a big man like that could fit through a little teeny basement window, so he couldn't be there. They seem real like that sometimes. The first time we tried to smudge him away, he seemed really puzzled and just stood there looking at us like he couldn't figure out what we wanted. He got really quiet for a few days, then started showing up in other parts of the house.

No luminescense. It was more like a snapshot, like there was really somebody there.

As for the guy in the museum, he was standing on a landing inside a historic house when my husband and I came into the room. He was just standing there looking at his hat that he had in his hands. Then he put it on his head and followed us halfway down the stairway. He was just minding his own business, though, didn't seem to notice us. He was so vivid I thought he was a fellow visitor to the exhibit. Seemed real.

Usually it's more like seeing something out of the corner of your eye. If you look straight on you can't see anyone. Also, there's sort of a projected presence that emanates from them that isn't there with a living person. The air around them is slightly charged. I'm not describing it well, but I've never articulated it before.

Thank goodness they never look like the ghouls in Sixth Sense or I'd be cowering under the covers every night.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 12:39 AM

I never had a personal experience, but my father "walked" to visit two of my sisters: once very soon after he died, he came and sat on the couch in my eldest's living room; the couch pressed in where he sat, but she could see through him, he wasn't quite solid. She remembers thinking This will be OK, if he comes and visits once in a while. It felt companionate, she said. He never did come back, though. Then years later, the next oldest had a son she named after our dad. One night when she was just finishing nursing the baby, he came and looked into the crib at his namesake. She, on the other hand, was very freaked out by this. I would have loved it, I think. I wish he'd visit me.

And aren't poltergeists statistically linked to having a troubled and peripubescent girl in the house?

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 12:48 AM

Sometimes I am too sensitive, but it's never made me feel in any danger or anything. Somewhere I wrote about our hanuted house in Mystic. I am still trying to find the thread I posted it in. I also have some others to relate, later, when I have more time.

Great idea for a thread, JP!

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Rev
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 01:27 AM

This might not be as dramatic as these other stories, but it is musical. Back around 1995, I was in Crested Butte, Colorado, in a late-19th century tavern called the Forest Queen. There was a hot bluegrass band playing (including Michael Kang of String Cheese Incident), and I noticed that there was a swinging door to the right of the stage that was swinging, and I mean really swinging. Back and forth, back and forth, quite vigorously, and seemingly in time with the music. No one else in the room was paying much attention to it, but I went over to investigate. There was no draft coming through the door, just a staircase going up. I actually stopped the door from swinging, and went up the stairs, but there was nothing up there, no open windows or anything. The door actually started swinging again, and I just decided that some of the local ghosts were just showing their admiration for the music. I've also heard footsteps and other sounds at my Mom's house in Stonington, CT. usually when no one else is home, and I am playing music by myself. I've even had to stop playing and go upstairs to see if someone was there. Do ghosts like music or what?

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 02:01 AM

my take on this is:

the mudcat never reined in the men from wyoming or the tittering cats

thank the good Lord....the MC is finally following its "natural paths."

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Michael in Swansea
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 04:26 AM

It was 1968, I was with my girlfriend, Christine, in her parent's house. We were sitting there talking, as 17 year olds tend to do when left alone, when she suddenly stopped and stared at a corner of the room. I felt a distinct RISE in temperature and looking at the chair that was in the corner of the room I saw a purpley coloured mist taking human-ish form sitting there. I couldn't make out any facial features or hear any sounds coming from it but Christine was answering it "Yes", "No", "Maybe" and giggling once or twice. I just sat there transfixed.
After what seemed about 10 minutes "It" disappeared and Christine turned to me. I asked her if everything was okay and she she said "You saw her didn't you? She told me you could" Christine explained that "It" was her Paternal Grandmother who had died 5 years earlier and she visited her a couple of times a year. Christine also said that this time they were talking about me! I felt honoured.
Christine and myself spent 5 years together before we went our separate ways.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 05:17 AM

A few years ago, I was visiting a good friend in a little town just west of Augusta. He lives in an old house that was a stop on the underground railway before the Civil War. He was in the process of turning a small room into a bathroom, and he was showing me what he was doing. The door was closed, there was no one else in that room. As he talked, I heard an odd sound behind me, I looked around and a penny came rolling across the floor out of a blank wall! I was dumbstruck! When I mentioned it to him, he shrugged and said "It happens all the time, I have a jar half full of them". I found out afterwards that there was a killing in the cellar, and, although the spirit was not a bad one, it had a puckish sense of humor, and delighted in scaring the hell out of people. Being Catholic, he does not believe in spirits, but, still, there were so many such incidents that he finally had the place blessed. There have been no incidents since. There were many incidents before that, but, I didi not witness those.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 07:53 AM

old thread with basically the same theme: Favorite ghost stories

In case you feel like reading something from the skeptical side, read Joe Nickell's 'Entities', Prometheus Books, 1995. Nickell is known for his follow-up studies of well known haunted sites and for his wealth of different and often very creative explanations.

In case you want to read good ghost stories without any scientific intrusion, there is this website.

Usually a single explanation will not fit all the recollected facts and I shall not attempt to find an explanation for any of the cases described, not even for any single aspect. I'll give you only a short and not exhaustive list of a couple of explanations that have been found each to be able to explain a subgroup of the phenomena. Whether someone believes that after all these explanations have been tested there remains a residuum of unexplained or not is more personal taste than anything else. Here's the list:

- pranks (usually by youngsters). For instance in the Observer of December 31, 2000, one could read of the late confession of a prankster in one of the most famous cases in Britain, namely the Borley rectory which once has been named (in a booktitle) 'the most haunted house in England' (there was a movie as well, of course). The prankster has described in detail how he did, e.g., ghosts without heads. Great idea.

- hypnopompic or lucid dreams (can seems very real)

- a standing infra-sound wave in a house (e.g. from a big, slowly rotating fan) can lead to many of the physiological side effects (hair standing up, fear, etc) that have been described. This is from a recent issue of a parapsychological journal, the J. of the society for Psychical research.

- EMF effects from near senders on electric or quasielectric equipment (the man who could listen to the radio in his tooth; I once had the local AFN in my radiator)

- nightly encounters with animals under bad viewing conditions (in one case, a barn owl sitting at face level has led to a very frightening percept)

- wind and temperature gradient action on house structures

and many, many more

And never forget that if you do not find a mundane explication it does not follow with necessity that there is none. There may be one you don't know or have not thought of.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: RichM
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 08:56 AM

Explanations of the scientific kind are theoretically useful. But those who defend them strongest are those who have never had a personal experience of the paranormal.

Ghost stories are entertaining. I have had some personal encounters, mostly benign and interesting. But one of them taught me not to get involved further, without having a very good reason.

Some encounters are simply dangerous. And no, I won't talk about that one. I will state some indicators that a paranormal encounter is happening:

Seeing something, of course, and: Feeling a sudden wind or cool temperature; A feeling of unease or dread; And the best one: the hair on your back, or the back of your neck, feels like it's standing up.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 09:42 AM

Something is screwing with me today - unplugging electrical appliances. At first I thought it was the kitten but there is no way she could have disconnected the stereo. And when I got to work, my fan was unplugged. Strange.
I have told my ghost story on another thread and won't repeat it here. None of encounters have felt dangerous. I do have the unfortunate talent of knowing (bolt of lightening striking) that someone is about to die. Has happened too often and in too many unusual circumstances to be ignored. I have made it my policy never to share the information with the person involved and wish it would just go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,Patrish
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 11:02 AM

Do you know I have typed my experience here three times and each time I have posted it it has very annoyingly disappeared (gremlins in the mudcat)So I can only suppose its not meant to be here. But between you and me I am Bl**dy cross.
Patrish

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 11:06 AM

I'm a natural born skeptic, but, I know what I know. I was there.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 11:08 AM

About the "EMF effects" - my erstwhile bro-in-law was an old Navy man, and knew Morse Code like some people know their native language. One day he's lying on his heating pad (back injury) and starts "hearing voices" without hearing anything. That is, he could somehow sense? Feel? Knew about? A conversation happening, fairly slowly. One-sided, as if he were listening to half of a telephone conversation, he would get the questions but not the answers. He closed his eyes to listen harder and it went away. When he opened his eyes again, it was there again, somehow in his ken without him knowing which sensory modality it had entered through. He was just about to get really weirded out, when he noticed that the little light that tells you your heating pad is on was flickering. He was receiving Morse Code from somewhere! He was "reading" the message at a sumliminal level, the way we read languages we can read without paying attention (As in, look at this array of lines, but don't read the word WALL), and was obviously tied in electrically with someone's actual electrical signals. But for a while there he thought he was hearing something supernatural!

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Justa Picker
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 12:52 PM

There are also states of consciousness that make one very susceptible to experiencing these phenomena.

Various forms of meditation at peak moments can trigger out of body experiences and astral projection.

Also have you ever been physically exhausted and tried to sleep but your mind won't "shut off", until you eventually reach a "waking dream-like state" where you're not quite awake but you're not quite asleep? It's a very delicate and subtle level of consciousness, and you're immediately aware of how fragile this state is, so you can either fight it and become very fearful (and it disappears immediately) or you can embrace it, and then experience what follows.

I've been "visited" a few times by dead relatives when I've been in that state. The most powerful aspect of it for me was the sense of smell as it pertains to the body odour of the individual. As a kid I remember the security of snuggling with a grandparent and baked into that memory was his smell. To experience this in a vision or a semi-dream like state is truly amazing and a little freaky.

I remember the first time it happened, having a conversation with my grandparents, and it felt as real as if they were actually there in the flesh. I recollect the doorbell of our house ringing and going downstairs to answer the door and seeing my grandparents there. They looked vibrant and healthy and exactly the way I remembered them as a kid. As I invited them into the house, I whispered in my grandfather's ear "Have you come to get me?" and he smiled and said "No we're just here for a visit." I then introduced them to my wife and kids, and then said, "wait, you can't go yet. I want to call Mom and tell her you're both here." But by the time I could get to the phone, they were gone, and I suddenly sat up in bed, completely startled with all the hairs on my arms and legs standing on end. This happened about 3 or 4 years ago on Chistmas morning, having gotten up very early with the kids (and having gone to bed late the night before) so that they could open their presents, and then heading back up to bed when they were done. I couldn't get back to sleep but was very physically tired. I tossed and turned for a long time and eventually I fell into this space, and the rest I've described ensued.

Course as soon as it was over I immediately got up and went downstairs and described the whole thing to my wife. I said it didn't feel like a dream because it was too real and the sense of smell really got to me. She suggested I call my best friend who is a psychic and tell him about it. I phoned him, and before I got too far into describing the situation the first thing he asked me was whether I had any sensations of "smell". I said "yup". He said it was probably real, and not a dream. I happened to be talking to my brother a couple of days later, and before I could tell him about my experience, he asked me if anything strange had happened to me in the past few days...and I asked him "why"? He then began describing almost exactly what I'd experienced, and this really freaked us both out!

I think to those that have these types of experiences they are in fact very real, but to try and convince others who've never experienced anything like this, is probably a waste of time. But it only has to happen to you a couple of times, to refute those doubts about the possibility that these things can and do exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 01:29 PM

Great experiences, JP. May you have many more. What I like about these life experiences is that you can be sure you will.

What I don't understand is why in the world a person- I, specifically- can't just accept them with finality. Instead of doing that, I still find myself saying 'I think', instead of 'I know'. There are even times when I debate the possibility of total extinction of consciousness at death. And that cannot be- else from where do these beings come? Anecdotal evidence is real.

The latest phenomenon I'm experiencing is the physical feel of a warm hand covering mine when I reach to flip this one particular light switch! Go figure.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: mousethief
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 01:38 PM

I know the state you refer to, Justa Picker. I've gotten some great poetry in that state. But never, alas, any visits from anybody.

I envy y'all. My life is a sheer unmitigated monotony of explainable phenomena.

Even when my mom had a poltergeist, and I was living in the same house (next room even!) I couldn't hear or see or feel anything.

I think, Murray, you must be right, and I'm on the very low end of the spectrum.

Oh well. Such is my lot.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 01:40 PM

Mudcatter Little John Cameron LIVED for a while in a "Haunted House" here in Toronto, on Huntley St. (yes, next door to that OTHER "Huntley st. thing")

Perhaps if he sees this, he'll give an account.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Justa Picker
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 01:43 PM

Well Ebbie, I don't presume to be any kind of an expert on the subject. I can only speak from my own experiences, and from what I've read, watched on tv, and from others I've discussed it with, who themselves have experienced it in one form or another.

Naturally our perception of reality and everything we've been conditioned since birth to perceive as REAL provides the grounding on which to determine that which is not or may not be real, of course based on each persons own vision of what reality is to them.

The first couple of times this happens, you naturally think "what just happened didn't really happen did it?". I must have been dreaming or maybe it was a mild hallucination, and we try and find reality based reasons to rationalize and dismiss it.

But after a while, it gets beyond the realm of coincidence and then you have to start adjusting and altering some those pre-conceived perceptions and notions of reality to include the possibility that this just might be real. And of course talking to others who've had similar experiences, reinforces the idea that you're not alone nor are these experiences unique just to you.

There are many many well documented cases (over the history of mankind,) and of course more recently by people in all walks of life, including respected scientists, academics, politicians --people who are considered credible, rational, and not prone to perpetuate myths or stories on the gullible.

Based on your light switch experience, it sounds to me like you've got company. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Justa Picker
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 02:06 PM

You also have to keep in mind that as far as many (not all) in the scientific community are concerned, that which cannot be explained without concrete proof, is easy to dismiss or rationalize away. EXCEPT for the fact the these phenomenons are operating on dimensions which completely transcend the laws of physics, as well as linear space and time. Just because their existences can't be pigeon-holed, explained, and rationalized by scientists and physicists, does NOT mean they don't exist.

A case in point is that many doctors and scientists claim that out of body experiences as they occur in clinical deaths on operating tables, and the ensuing lights and tunnels, and being met by loved ones are merely hallucinations triggered by an oxygen deprived brain with a massive endorphine release, creating these "illusions" and the innate subconscious desires to be met by missed loved ones is manifested. Fine. There's a nice, easy to understand and rationalized explanation that pacifies the scientists and doctors. But, it's only one theory. It does not however explain how someone can leave there body during an operation, and later when resuscitated, tell the doctors and nurses word for word of their conversations during the operation.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have a friend who is extremely psychic, as was his mother, and his grandmother. He's probably one of the most laid back, mellowist people I've ever met. He can look into your eyes and tell you what's been eating you lately, without you volunteering a word, and, he is always right. He can see and read auras. He can tell who is an "old soul" and who isn't. He has assured me, that everything you are, you get to take with you when you leave here. In conjunction with the experiences I've had, that's good enough for me. He can also heal people with "energy" by placing his hands on you, and you feel a tremedous sense of warmth and heat. (Think of an electric heating pad, only more intense.) Again I've experienced this first hand, and in no way was it psychosomatic.

Some are more open to receiving these things than others. It's almost like the ability to receive certain radio stations. Depends on how powerful the signal is, and how much you can naturally extend your "antenae" to pick up the signals...but once you've experienced things, your antenae will extend, and it will become a strange, yet familar and somewhat welcoming experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Matt_R
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 02:19 PM

I'm so low on the spectrum, I don't even register! I've never felt or experienced anything strange. Though, since I grew up in a non-traditional style, e.g. not listening to lot of different kinds of music, never having friends, never seeing movies, these sorts of things tend to leave "impressions" on me. I sort of carry around the feeling for weeks. Like the time some friends and I watched The Wizard of Oz to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon album. It was such a surreal experience that I still can feel the unsettlingness of it still. That's about as weird as my experiences go...

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: mousethief
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 02:23 PM

Matt, you and me should start a group. We appear to be at the same end of the spectrum. We could sit around and talk about how we've never had any paranormal experiences, then eat fried chicken and watch old movies. Couldn't be any duller than MENSA, could it?

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 02:36 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,SharonA
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 02:55 PM

Kendall, what a story! Talk about pennies from heaven...

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 03:24 PM

I am fascinated by the dream state, both the twilight state that JP spoke of and deep REM dreams. I have had 2 instances of psychic dreams forshadowing events. What do such instances say about the nature of reality?
My sister had an extreme series of incident along these lines.She started to have strange dreams and even waking notions about a friend who would soon die in a car accident. There are more details to this story than I have time to relate, but here is the short version.
My sister was working in Europe and her friend D came over from the states to visit. She started having the dreams of D bloody and at one point even imagined it while looking at her while awake. During the visit there was an incident where a woman had a seizure in a bank hit her head on the counter and bled profusely, D was the closest person and in her attempt to help the woman she became somewhat covered in the woman's blood. The woman died. My sister thought this was what the dreams were about.
D died in a car accident days after arriving home. D kept on coming to my sister in her dreams after passing and both my sister and D's father saw D in the same clothes when she would astral visit. My sister wasn't going to bring up D's visits to D's parents, but, a complete stranger's input led her to speak of it to them.
A woman who worked with another of D's friends saw a picture of D in a group on the friend's desk and asked if D had passed away. She proceeded to related to the friend that she is somewhat psychic and that the girl in that picture had been coming to her in her dreams telling her "they need to know I am alright".

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 03:48 PM

Oh, yeah, dreams, forgot about those. I occasionally have prescient dreams, but they are always about mundane things, like dreaming the Style section is torn in my Sunday newspaper, and Lo, that Sunday, indeed no usable Style section. Once I was out with several sisters traveling across the wilds of Ghana, and we were on our way back to Abidjan (civilization!) in a bush taxi, and I fell asleep and dreamt that Mom had changed the date of the big dinner party with ministers and other dignitaries, and indeed, we came back filthy and dishevilled and the house was surrounded by large black mercedes' - they (my sisters) were really glad I'd had that dream so we knew what to be prepared for! But that's the only one I can think of that actually mattered, in any way. Mom had forgotten we were due back that day, and had changed the dinner party the week before my dream, which happened on the day we were going home... (I also dreamt we came in dancing the Can Can, so when we got there, my oldest sister started doing the Can Can so that part could be true too!)

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Penny S.
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 07:01 PM

I have a suspicion about a way the sense of smell thing might work if not extra-sensory (which is not to make any implications about what has happened to others). It is based on observation of my own perceptions, involving a live person. He was someone I knew fairly well, and indeed was rather interested in at the time. I knew the way he looked at a mile distant, and close up, the sound of his voice and his piano playing, the mood I was in when he was around, my response to his sense of humour, and also the feel of him nest to me while rehearding the final chorus of an operatic society performance - so the scent of his clothes, too. On one occasion, I caught sight of his back disappearing round a corner in the town, and found that my mind instantly recalled everything, as if he was close up - the whole sense of his presence. I have noticed it with others since, and I think it's part of how we recognise people. If we do have a multisensory image which is triggered by small details, it would serve to provide the whole for comparison and identification in unusual circumstances.

Not a psychic explanation, but then, who's to say that it might not be triggered by a visitor, anyway.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Pelrad
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 10:28 PM

"Do ghosts like music or what?" I think they like the artistic temperament. I've found that among my acquaintances who experience strange phenomena, the majority are artists of some kind. Of course, that may just be the type with whom I choose to discuss these things, or the type who are willing to discuss them in general...It is a very subjective study.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 11:22 PM

I don't know if this counts or not; I rather doubt it, but all day today I have had one of those Panic Attacks deep in the stomach. The one where you know they are coming to take your children away or reposess your house...no real reason for it.

Went out to supper (I was too "sick" to cook, and not hungry, but the fellas were). Just as we were finishing, Bubba's girlfriend came crashing into the restaurant and said that Jeff had rolled his pickup, didn't know how bad or if he was hurt, didn't know if Blue Dog was in the bed.......immediately the Fear in the Stomach went away....IT had happened.

Jeff (one of my Other Kids) is OK, Blue Dog was at home and it's only the truck that is totaled.

Another: When we moved into this house (10 yrs ago), the attic was half unfinished attic and half "started bedroom". We finished the bedroom part for daughter Kate, and she moved in shortly after Valentine's Day, '91 and immediately started having sleep problems. Never had any before.

I stayed up very late one night, after she went to sleep, and spent some time in Her Room.......out of the corner of my eye, I caught a glimpse of an "aboriginal/Native American female......naked, very short (4'5" or so) with VERY long, black hair. Hair clear past her bum and not braided. No sense at all of menace, but a lot of anger.

Seems that "we/Kate" had invaded her space......I watched for several days and kept seeing the lady and she was very angry, so Kate and I did a Ceremony involving Light, Corn, Tobacco,Sweetgrass, Sage and Silver. Told her she was not threatened in any way, and we were sorry she was angry, etc. It must have worked because she has not been back since and Kate is now quite comfortable in her room.

Upshot is----who really knows???

I've had a couple other strange experiences especially at Historical Sites; mostly feeling like I was being watched and judged......don't know what the Verdict was, but I've never been frightened.

My dad used to visit as a "feeling", but hasn't since Mom died, guess he was worried about her.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 12:01 AM

well, once I was reading by a low light, when something flickered just on the edge of my vision...I slowly turned my head, and there was....a curtain blowing in fron of a window!!!...oh, never mind...I'm with Matt on this one...ghosts avoid me, spirits hide from me, and I'm just NOT wired for auras....

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 12:13 AM

3 weeks before my dad died I had a vision of him laid in a coffin,my cousin saw this as well.I somtimes get "deja vu" type things(2 or 3 times a year).Sometimes I get very clear dreams that come true, last year I dreamed of a horse called"Kings Magic" winning a big horse race, I watched the race with interest to see "Kings Best" win.john

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 01:41 AM

WARNING: SKEPTICS BEWARE!

I've got a couple of minor ghost stories, but don't feel like typing them out tonight.

One thing I will say, though...there is no such thing as the supernatural, because everything is natural. Some things (like ghosts) are not so generally accepted in this cultural framework, that's all, which is not to say that they are unnatural...they're just unexpected. When people see a natural event that they did not think was possible, they call it supernatural.

This is precisely the way some tribal people reacted to their first encounter with, say, gunpowder or electric lights, radio or television, and even 2 dimensional pictures (which some of them could not see at first, just as most dogs and cats cannot see what's on the TV and recognize it although they do recognize the sounds!). We are not very familiar with spirits in this culture, so we tend to call it a supernatural event when we encounter one in an obvious way.

People called Christ's healings miracles. That's simply because they didn't understand the perfectly natural healing mechanism he was using (a method of moving vital energy or life force where it's needed) when he healed people. Many people have that ability to some extent, all people have it potentially, and Jesus certainly appears to have had it fully developed, as have a few other individuals in the course of history.

So there are no miracles, and there is no supernatural, but that is what people call it if they are unfamiliar with it, and they are astounded as a consequence. If it happened a few times every day in front of their eyes, they would soon accept it as just another normal occurence, as long as it didn't cause them any great difficulties, and they would soon have a nice scientific explanation for it too, in all probability...or at least a theory or two.

And, of course, there are some hoaxes and some honest misunderstandings of phenomena out there too...(yawn) just so the skeptics don't get too disturbed by what I'm saying here.

But fortunately, there will always be genuine mysteries. Both scientists and mystics would be in a sad situation if there was nothing strange left out there to investigate. What a dull world it would be.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 02:30 AM

Penny, I live in an old house museum. Not too many people have lived here since it was built 100 years ago so the history is fairly clear and can be tracked quite readily.

The person who preserved the collection and history of the person we commemorate here died in September a few years ago. I had got acquainted with her that last year, and she was glad I was here; she said she thought I had the same feel for the house she had. About three weeks after she died, as I passed between the dining table and the radiator there was a clear, pleasing scent that I identified as violets or as a violet-scented toilet water. After that from time to time I would check out that same spot; sometimes it would be there and sometimes it wouldn't. (I don't remember any particular scent in connection with her, but she was 84 and always impeccably dressed and made up, so cologne or perfume is almost a given.)

On that December 19th I checked it again- and suddenly it seemed like the whole room was full of piney boughs. I decided it was time to decorate for Christmas!

There were/are lots of other odors in this house- sometimes an oven heating or cookies baking, or a tomato-y dish that seems to be ready to eat. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for their occurrence and I'm not the only one who smells them.

There are no other houses near by.

This, of course, is not the only phenomenon here- it's a great house, and I love it.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Hawker
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 02:50 AM

Hi,
I have had many'psychic experiences, some may be explained scientifically but the majority have NO logical explainaton. One of the weirdest phenomenon that both I and my husband experienced was about a year after we had removed the doorbell from our house, we were sitting watching TV it was late in the evening, too late for visitors, and the door bell rang. We both heard it, went to the door and there was no-one there. We decided it must have been on the TV. later we went to bed, shorthly after we had got into bed, the doorbell rang again, this time there was no TV to blame it on, and again there was no-one there, not even the doorbell! Weird?
I agree that some are more receptive to this kind of happening than others, but also believe that if someone or thing wants you to see/feel/sense their presence, then you will.
Sleep well!
Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 03:50 AM

Years ago I remember a really wierd experience when I and my brother were kids and had just had a massive arguement. I went into the bathroom and opened the bathroom cabinet. As I opened the door of the cupboard a glass came out horizontally and then went vertically downwards full force smashing the basin below. It left a perfect round hole in the basin and the glass unbroken rolled round on the floor. Scarey stuff!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: hesperis
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 04:48 AM

Yeah, glasses tend to jump away from me if I'm really angry. It's a weird feeling, because this ZING! of energy comes up my back, and then if I'm reaching for a glass, it jumps away. One time I angry, and just sitting at the table, and I felt the ZING! and my stepdad, over five feet away from me, dropped the plate he was holding. He just could not hold onto it.

But as for ghosts... I had a dream once, where I felt "frozen", I couldn't move my body at all, and was barely able to breathe. I heard someone come down the stairs, unlock the door, and start clinking around in the kitchen, and then washing up. I felt a male presence in my apartment, and was really disturbed. I knew it wasn't a "real" person, though, and that it meant no harm. I thought very strongly that I wasn't comfortable with it being there, and to please not return until I got accustomed to the idea of having a ghost around. The sensation immediately disappeared, and I was able to move again.

I never felt comfortable sleeping in the bedroom of that place, preferring the livingroom.

I later found out from a neighbor that she had felt a ghostly presence too, and she was convinced that it had scared off a burglar. The burgler had come through the top outside door, forced open the bottom outside door, and abandoned his work when the door to her apartment had been one screw away from being open.

It could have been noise from upstairs. It could easily have been noise from upstairs. But a friend of mine turned to me one day and asked if there was a ghost in that apartment, because she felt that something was there. Her boyfriend ws also there, and he was visibly nervous, before she even said anything. (He was normally fine with being in my place.)

And I noticed that people tended to be nervous in my apartment after dark, especially if they weren't true friends to me. And that people who wanted to use me in some way had a lot of trouble finding my apartment, even if I thought they were friends of mine at the time.

Has anyone else had things disappear? I am missing one of my CDs, and a book that someone lent me... which I have never read because it disappeared almost as soon as it came into the place. And the guy wants it back... I find no trace of them with any energy stuff, and they are not where I last put them. Or any reasonable place, either.

Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Matt_R
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 09:27 AM

I'm on the low end, yes, but I think my mom is somewhere in the middle. And so is our cat, I believe!

One day my Mom drove my youngest sister to school and dropped her off. When she got back, there was one thing strange going on...the door to the hutch where we keep the stereo was open, and the radio on the stereo was playing. It was CERTAINLY not on when she left, as my mom is not a big fan of music, and since it is in the living room, would have noticed if it was on before. The only one in the house? The cat.

Our cat sleeps on a wooden shelf in our laundry room, which is connected at one end to the kitchen, by a door, and connected to the garage by a door on the other end. We put her in there every night and close the door. One morning we came out to find a strange sight. The house was still completely locked up, the electric garage door opener was locked closed, the door between the garage and laundry room (which is steel plated) was locked and deadbolted, but the doorknob on the door between the kitchen & laundry room was hanging out, with the hole it fit in being cracked and splintered, like someone tried to jerk then knob off the door. And the knob doesn't even lock. The only one in there? The cat.

Also, we have an electric staple gun that we keep plugged in,in the kitchen, and use to staple school paper together. The stapler will often times go off by itself, when no one is in the room. When the computer was in the kitchen, it used to dial into the internet when no one was in the room. Even when the computer was "asleep". And I have an option on there that when an automatic dialup (for a task scheduler, e.g.) start, it requires someone to click "ok" for it to connect.

My mom has also heard a child's laugh in the house on a few occasions, in the middle of the night, when there are only 3 people in the house, my parents, and my 19-year-old sister. My mom also hears a phantom radio playing music in the middle of the night too. It's just low enough so as to not make out what the music is. Once though, it was so loud that it woke her up. She thought it was the clock/radio that had gone off, but it wasn't on...she woke up my dad, but he didn't hear anything. I CAN actually remember hearing something similar when we lived here back in 1983, and I was about 4 years old. I got so scared I got out of bed and ran to spend the rest of the night in the doorjam of my parents' bedroom.

Interestingly enough, there was an accident a few hundred feet from our house abour 3 years ago. 3 Marines coming back from lunch were killed, including a young woman Marine who was my age (22).

My mom used to have the weird dreams when we lived in the apartment in Okinawa, Japan. Weird waking dreams that seemed like reality. Dream where the bed would depress like someone was sitting on it, or a cat was jumping on it, even though there was no one there. Weird dreams of strange male voices whispering her name, or ones where one of us kids where calling to her. They continued until the 1st shipment of our belongings from America arrived, and we hung up the decorative crucifix that belonged to my Grandmother (my mom's mother), as well as the brass crucifixes that me and my sister have. I have the one from my grandfather's casket, she has the one from my grandmother's. Somehow I think when we hung them up, our grandparents were watching over us. My mom always used to call my grandmother a "watcher," who would wait at the window for hours until her children where all home....

--Matt

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 09:49 AM

I really love the way the mechanics of the world have preempted words like "normal" and "logical" to define only those things operating within Newtonian material bounds. The only reason a spiritual event of any sort would seem illogical is if one had a set of data in mind that didn't allow for such things to happen. Of course, then when they happen anyway it really looks "weird". Culturally this indicates to me that we suffer from very poor training in the disciplines of logic, and ontology and that we suffer from hali-gnosis (stinky methods of knowing).

A.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 09:50 AM

Matt, I think your cat is possessed

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Matt_R
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 09:58 AM

She's not possessed! She's just from outer space!

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Ringer
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 10:00 AM

If you define "natural" as susceptable to scientific enquiry, Little Hawk, do you still maintain there's no such "thing" as supernatural?

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: hesperis
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 11:12 AM

He probably does. Scientific enquiry depends on the tools we use... and on the perceptions we define it with.

Scientists often aim for objectivity, without realizing that because they are already a part of the world, they are subjectively affecting that world BY trying not to be subjective.

And then you have people bending over backwards to be "objective" and merely ending up being destructive instead. True objectivity is not actually possible. And yet the scientific method is based on being "objective"?

Bah humbug.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Jenny S
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 11:31 AM

I have, several times, been awoken in the morning by my (dead) mother saying my name in my ear. Trouble is, I can't ever make out what she wants to tell me, or why she wants me to wake up!

Nancy, once (unknowingly) took a photo of a "spirit"(?) while we were walking in the woods. You can see the photo at: http://BardofAvalon.ifrance.com/BardofAvalon/Otherworld/SpiritofForest.html (There are some other "Otherworld Encounters there, too)

Another time, Pat & I saw an "Otherworld Castle"... During the winter months we would often visit and explore different market towns throughout West Devon and East Cornwall.

On one such excursion, as we were weaving our way through side-streets to leave the town and make our way home, we saw an old castle which we had never noticed before.

The castle was a small, ancient building atop a conical hill. Such castles are not unusual in the area. There are similar castles at Totnes, Barnstaple, and Saltash.

So we were not surprised to see such a castle, though we were surprised that we had never noticed it before - and we promised ourselves that we would return again to explore it.

However, some months later when we decided to return for another visit we found that we had forgotten where we had seen the castle. We thought initially that it had been near Torquay - at Babbacombe or St Marychurch perhaps. But when we returned there we could not find it.

So, over the next few weeks we re-visited all of the towns which we had visited just those few months before. Still we could not find the castle again.

We pored over detailed maps of the area, and visited every likely-looking feature (and discovered lots more interesting places in the meantime: but that's another story...). Still we could not find the castle which we had seen earlier.

Fifteen years have passed since then, and still we hope to find again the castle which has so tantalised us all these years.

J

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,BigDaddy
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 08:53 PM

This all reminds me of the time William Butler Yeats asked an old Irishman whether he believed in "fairies," or not. The old man replied (not an exact quote), "Believe in 'em, aren't I plagued with 'em every day and night?" And, again, "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary, for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible." Franz Werfel, I believe. And as for me..yes...I've seen them, heard them, felt them as have my parents and others in my family. J

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 09:12 PM

Bald Eagle - Yes, I still maintain that ultimately there is no such thing as the supernatural, but that it's a matter of perspective or familiarity. If people cannot comprehend an event, then they tend to feel that maybe it is supernatural.

I regard spiritual matters, such as the existence of the soul, or spiritual healing of people, as perfectly natural, though non-material in origin (but not in effect).

Whether or not a natural thing is "susceptible to scientific enquiry" is entirely contingent on how far the science involved has advanced, and in what direction, and on what tools and methods it has at its disposal.

We can now scientifically explain many things which we couldn't in the past...such as radio waves, for example, or electricity or X-rays.

We will someday be able to explain psychic phenomena and a number of other non-material things as well, I expect.

At that point they will leave the realm of the supernatural and unknown, and will become common knowledge.

And so it goes...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 08:38 AM

When I lived in a house which was 100 years old (at that time - now 113) there were a few instances of weird happenings.

It was a 3 storey terrace house built on a very steep hill, with the front door level with the street, a basement floor which opened out onto the garden, and an upper floor. My room was in the basement and the other three people sharing the house had their rooms on the top floor.

Often, when no one else was home and when I was downstairs in my room, under the dining room, I would hear the front door open and close, fairly brisk footsteps along the hall, into the dining room, across that room to the door to the kitchen (built in the enclosed verandah) and across to the stove. Many times I would get up from what I was doing and go upstairs to have a chat with whoever had come home - it was a very sociable shared house at that time. When I got up into the dining room & kitchen I would find no one there, no lights on, no sign of anyone. I would have heard them either going back out the front door or going up the main stairs.

It happened quite often, and I would listen each time, after the first couple of times, to make sure that it was actually in our house and not in the adjoining house. But it was always right above my head when the footsteps sounded in the dining room, so it was unmistakeable.

So, one night I was sitting alone in the front lounge room on the street level, with the open fire going, pretty focused on my reading or studying or something. I got up and went upstairs to the loo, which meant having to go through a dark room to a closed in verandah, and around to the right into the bathroom. When I came out I switched the light off, so it was completely dark and suddenly realised that I was "face-to-face" with a very strong presence. I couldn't see anyone but I felt the presence, my hair stood on end, my heart was racing etc. I took off, without much conscious thought/volition - flight or flight response - downstairs into the lounge room with all the lights on and took a while to recover my composure.

I had not seen her but I found that I could "see" her in my mind, and describe her fairly clearly. She was wearing very drab clothes, with a straight skirt which was midway between knees and ankles in length. She was just "waiting" - that was the message I got. Waiting for what, I didn't know.

When I recovered I decided to go back up and see if I could see her, feel her presence or communicate with her, but I didn't get much response - but then again I was too agitated to be sure of anything by that stage.

Later, a very powerful and insightful psychic/spiritual counsellor told me that she thought that the young woman had committed suicide by gassing herself with the oven, due to severe depression as a result of being raped. That brisk and purposeful walk to the oven made sense in the light of that story.

After my encounter, I realised that at night I had always hung onto the light switch, and turned the corner into a more lighted area before switching the bathroom light off, but the night that I saw her I had switched the light off without thinking before leaving the bathroom and that whole area was very dark that night because everyone else was out.

I also realised that I used to reach into the light switch in the lounge room to turn it on before entering, and I sensed the presence of a young teenage boy who just used to stand near the window, over to the far left.

After I meditated and sent this female spirit lots of loving light and energy and suggested that she look around for the guide who was waiting to show her to the light, her presence stopped being obvious around the house, and I felt very strongly that she had moved on.

Another time I went out to a man's place for dinner. He was a friend of my new boyfriend but I hardly knew him. He invited us to sit at a table near the back wall of the house, in another enclosed verandah (pretty common practice here in Oz, to make more room in the house). I was sitting right next to the side wall of the house, on the driveway side and as the other two were talking I kept glancing sharply to my right, at the side wall, with an impression of small quick flashes of light.

As we talked the host started to tell us about the window which used to be in that exact spot (I hadn't said anything about the flashes of light, by the way) and how, no matter what he did, the glass in the window used to keep getting broken. He would keep replacing it and it would keep shattering. He checked thoroughly for ordinary, everyday causes, such as vandalism, structural faults, etc but there was no ordinary explanation that he could find. He finally replaced the window with pieces of wood to blend with the existing wall. That is when I told him about the flashes of light.

I have always been psychic, and I use these powers as second nature, although I don't take them for granted. I use them in combination with my other deductive and logical/analytical abilities and more often than not the different perspectives agree, in an uncanny way. So, I have lots more examples but I've rambled on too much already.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 05:05 PM

I still wish my Dad would come see me. Or let me see him. Wonder how he'd look - would be 57, or 76, for instance? For those of you who see, do they seem to stay the age at which they died?

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 05:22 PM

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, according to what I've heard.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Justa Picker
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 05:30 PM

Well Mrrzy,
When my grandparents "visited" me, my grandmother looked as she did to me, when I was about 6 or 7 years old, but my grandfather looked the same as he did when I saw him a couple of days before he died. The interesting thing about his appearance, was that he had sort of buzz cut with white hair stubble on his head (in life he parted his hair to the side) and he had a tan, and looked very vibrant and healthy. Neither had ever been to Florida nor had tans in their lives. My grandfather passed when I was almost 15 and my grandmother when I was 22. (I'm 47.)

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 08:56 PM

Mrrzy,

Sometimes, if they have found themselves, by which I mean, found a harmonious balance within themselves, they come back in their happiest, healthiest state. Sometimes, a person comes back and visits when they are feeling sad and haven't come to terms with problems that they had in their lives and they tend to be fixed into that time of their life that troubles them. If they can then come to terms with that problem then they can revert to the happy healthy state.

That happened with my paternal grandmother. When I first saw her I was really worried because she seemed to be lost and wandering in a half-conscious state. After I meditated and contacted her and we had a long, deep and meaningful conversation I felt that she went off and reconsidered what she had been worrying so much about, and I stopped having that sense of her wandering lost in the wilderness.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Justa Picker
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 09:02 PM

Thanks for the above, Helen.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 04:15 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 02:25 AM

It's been my experience that they tend to look, as someone said above, vibrant and bursting with energy- I remember untroubled brows, upright posture and arms filled out and fit, for instance. Later I sometimes realize that they looked as though they were in their 30s (even when I never saw them in their 30s in 'real' life.)

What seems so odd to me is a different thing- my brother who died 3 years ago has appeared twice in pale blue denim shirt and pale blue denim jeans. I never saw him wear anything like that before. My father wears white shirts with sleeves halfway rolled up. Why? (If I were 'imagining' it, why would my mind come up with that?) My point is wondering what is going on in their lives right NOW that they dress like that? I suspect that there are a lot of surprises a-waitin' us...

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: poetlady
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 03:10 AM

I don't really know if I believe in ghosts, but being of the Christian religion I believe in spirits, and I do believe the soul lives after the body dies. Whether visitation is allowed, how, and why seem open to speculation.

My mother told me a pretty, slightly creepy story. When I was a baby, my mother heard a voice on the monitor saying something like, "There, there, it's okay." No one was in the room and it seemed very odd to her. She told my aunt on my father's side about it. My aunt said, matter-of-factly, "That was my mother." My grandmother on my father's side died before I was born.

The Bible refers to a spiritual gift, called "discerning between spirits," which it is my theory God often equips young children with for their protection. I remember as a child, I'd be frightened of certain places for no apparent reason. One of them was my brother's basement. I would not go down there alone, and when I was there I was always uncomfortable, though I did not know why. Years later, I was told that a man had hung himself there.

Another interesting thing is there was this one room in my grandparents house I was afraid of as a child. It seems it frightened the other children too. Something unsettled about it somehow. My mother was sleeping there one night. She woke up and something had grabbed her ankle. She felt it, was sure she felt, but I don't recall she saw anything. There are graves in the yard there from many, many years ago. A child is buried beneath a tree in the yard next to the room. There are a few other members of the family who previously occupied the house buried in the yard as well, but we're not sure where they are. I didn't know about any of it, but I remember how I hated to sleep in that room.

Lastly, once in the middle of the night, my mother and grandmother were sleeping. There were sounds of things moving about in the kitchen. My mother's uncle had just died, though I cannot recall his name. Mother asked grandmother what she supposed that was. Grandmother said "Oh that's just (the name I forgot)." She seemed to think it was perfectly normal and understandable. I do believe her sister, who lived somewhere else and probably hadn't heard of the kitchen incident, reported to have seen an apparition of him, as well. It was like he was saying goodbye.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 10:52 AM

Don't think this was a ghost, but it sure weren't normal. Many years ago, I was teaching at Hunter College in Da Bronx, New Yawk City. One bright, sunny day, As I was walking up the steps to the door of the building where I taught, the door opened, and I walked through it, without thinking until I noticed that there was no one in sight. It was an old, heavy door.. not automatic. I had opened that door countless times, and did countless times after that. But that one time, on a brilliantly sunny day, something opened the door for me.

A little late to be trying to ingratiate yourself with a teacher..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jul 03 - 11:33 PM

For some reason I was thinking about these things today and knew there had to be a Thread on it.

1. My grandmother was living with us when she died in the summer of 1957. The first night after she passed away my great-great aunt, who was also living with us, awoke and looked out on the brightly moonlit backyard. There was my grandmother, looking worried. "Is everything okay, Tilly?" she asked my g-g aunt. "Yes, Clara, everything's fine," replied Aunt Tilly. "Okay, then I won't be back." And she left.

2. My mother died around 2 a.m. Central time in 1981. When my brother Ted left her side to notify brother Tony and sister Martha, they were already hurrying to the room. It was 3 a.m. near Akron, Ohio, where I was living at the time, and I awakened with a jolt. My wife said, "What's wrong?" and I replied, "Mom's gone." A few minutes later the phone rang....

3. For a while in the mid-60s I made and set tombstones; my brother followed me and later, after he returned from Vietnam, dug graves. One night a couple of years ago we were talking (and drinking). He asked me, "When we made tombstones -- was there ever any time or place you were, well, afraid or anything?" "Yes," said I after some thought, "there was. The Old Jewish Cemetery on 24th Street." "Felt like you weren't wanted, didn't belong there?" "That's it exactly." "I've always wondered if anyone else felt that there."

If the past, present and future are all different sides of the same coin, if the living, the dead, and the not-yet-born all exist at the same time....

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: LadyJean
Date: 19 Jul 03 - 11:47 PM

I was working at Animal X's, doing press releases and updating the database for Costume Con 11. It was right after my mother died, and I wasn't sleeping well, anyway. The work was keeping me sane.
Now and again, I saw a woman standing in the foyer of Animal's 1901 house. She was dressed in the style of about 1910, including a Queen Mary hat. At first I thought she was a mannequin, dressed in a costume. When the mannequin started moving, I figured I was suffering from lack of sleep, which can cause hallucinations. When someone else, who didn't know thing one about turn of the century fashions, or Queen Mary hats talked about meeting a woman in a hat with a crown and no brim, who disappeared. I figured I must have seen something. But I'm not scared of anyone who wears Queen Mary hats.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 12:03 AM

Come to think of it, there was a fourth.

Ft. Carson, Colorado, December, 1968. About 6 of us were working very late in the Special Services theatre, making up the set for "You Can't Take It With You," which we were putting on. The building was a leftover from WW2.

It was around 2 a.m. when we heard a door close, and when we looked up there were two Military Policement standing at the front of the building watching us. At the time I was in an MP company, so I waved, but they didn't wave back. After a few minutes they left.

The next day we were talking about it and realized then that the MPs had been wearing short-sleeved summer uniforms -- and the type of brown, buckle-top combat boots that were issued long before the black ones then in use -- Korean War vintage, at least. And no one had actually seen them leave.

We didn't know then what was going on and I still don't. No fear, no nothing -- just a couple of guys standing there watching us make set....

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Helen
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 02:00 AM

An incident about "Do ghosts like music or what?"

When I used to go to music sessions at a friend's house, just after she had moved in to that house I "noticed" one evening that there was an old couple sitting in the next room looking through the large opening into the back room where we were playing music. At first they seemed puzzled about why people were playing music in their home, but after a short time they just settled back and started enjoying themselves. They left after an hour or so. I don't see people as if they are there, but in my mind's eye, almost like a visual memory.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 02:07 AM

Never actually, truly seen one but felt many......and caught some glimpses out of the corner of my eye. Would like to see at least one...

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Shelley C
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 12:59 PM

My Mum told me this one that happened to her. Back in the fifties, she had just started a new job as a teacher in an old school. At the top of the building was a room known as the apple-loft where they used to store books. On her first day, the Headmistress told Mum that the apple loft was haunted. This Headmistress was a bit of a batty old lady, so Mum took it with a pinch of salt.
But when she had to go and get some books from the apple loft, she felt a very menacing presence which quite scared her. So she said out loud 'Go away, we don't want you here!' She didn't tell anyone about the experience, as she wondered if she had imagined it.
About a year later, Mum and the Headmistress were showing some visitors round the school. One of them asked 'Do you still have the ghost in the apple loft?'. The Headmistress replied 'No, that's a very strange thing. No-one has seen or felt it since Pat (my Mum) started work here'.
Did my Mum have the power of exorcism, or was it all in the mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 01:10 PM

Anyone can exorcise if they have clear intent and a bit of focus.

Your Mum certainly did!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,Bograt
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 06:46 PM

Good thread. There is also this site which may interest some
of you.(Sorry can't do clicky things yet)

http://www.issc-taste.org/arc/dbo.cgi?set=expo&ss=1

Lets have more, please, and is there any way to train yourself
to be more receptive to phenomena?

Cheers

Bog

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 07:06 PM

Seen some, felt some, spoken to some!!

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Gareth
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 07:39 PM

Well - I can not comment on reality, paranotmal experience or what but I relate the following so that 'Catters can make thier own decisions.

Summer 1968 My parents were out in East Africa. I was in the UK. The intention was that I would meet my father in London, ( he was scheduled to come home for a week for discussions with the FCO, befor we both flew back to Malawi. Telegram arrives at my boarding school, "Visit Cancelled".

Now nothing unusual about that.

In the mean time I develope stomata/ Sores on my wrists, ankles and stomach. Nothing painfull, a query perhaps, Doctor could find no cause.

7 days later, fly out to Malawi, am met at Airport by mother, and to my surprise taken staight to Hospital, Father is in intensive care afrter road accident. Massive wound on stomach, where he was impalled by bits of car, weeping wounds on wrists and ankeles where infections had occoured due to drip feeds being inserted under less than sterile conditions.

Father recovered, tho his health was never good subsequently.

I was not aware of the problem prior to arriving at Blantyre, some 5000 miles from London.

Co-incidence ?? Make you own choice.

Switch Now to the quiet Oxfordshire Village of "Kingston Bagpuize" in 1988. I had gone to visit my brother. Brother was a Farm Manager, his tied cottage was an agricultural Labours Cottage dating back some 300 years. OK, a pint or 5 was had at the local Inn. Chat in the bar with one or two of the locals, I was introduced as Huw's brother, and an amature historian (its safer than a Loss Adjustor), discussion ventures round to the "Swing" riots, 1820's ( Yes they did affect Oxon )

That night I had the most vivide dream, concerning a farm worker awaiting transportation to Australia, for his participation in the "Swing" revolt. Subsequent, but shallow digging demonstrated that this particular farm, or parts there off had been on the recieving end of rick burning etc.

Co-incidence ?? Make you own choice.

One or two other stories, but they will wait.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 11:09 PM

My brother was staying at a friend's house and awakened during the night. He went down the hall to do what he had to do, and on the way back to his room was surprised to see the profile of a man in shadow at the end of the corridor.

He mentioned it the next morning at breakfast and was told, "Oh, yeah. That's just Dad. We've all seen him. He just hangs around some nights keeping an eye on things."

The end of hall had no window, just a door to the attic. Nothing to cast a shadow such as he saw.

Dad had been dead for seven years at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 11:51 PM

Gareth--"stomata"? Try "stigmata" instead. I love this stuff!

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 12:04 AM

Here's one I told around the Mudcat Campfire back in '99.

More, later. Great thread!

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 04:57 PM

If any of you can get yer auld grannie's ghost to put in an appearance for sane people to experience, there's a million dollars waiting for you here

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 08:10 PM

Some of you know that I recently bought a house in Maine. Not a very old house and no murders or deaths related to it. About a month ago I discovered a drawer open in the kitchen when I came in for morning coffee. I wondered, closed it, and thought nothing more about it. Next morning two drawers were opened. I checked to see if they were loose - maybe a passing truck caused a vibration? This went on for a while until one morning, as I stood in front of them, one drawer after the other opened quietly. I was more than a bit rattled. It reminded me of that kitchen scene in Poltergeist.

Well, my poltergeist made an immediate appearance. Freddie the Cat came out from under the sink and the door snapped shut behind him. He had figured out how to open the door, get in behind the drawers, and push them out. Why? Because he could.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: LadyJean
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 11:22 PM

The Dinsmore house is a historic home in Northern Kentucky. The Dinsmores were packrats, which is making many historians very happy.
One of the things they saved was a pre-indoor plumbing bathtub. It looks like a regular tub, only with now faucets, and wheels and a handle like a coaster wagon in the attic.
One of the volunteers took a picture of it. When the photgraph was developed, there was a face in the attic window. It was one of the Dinsmores, long since dead and buried in the family graveyard up the hill from the house. I figure he just wondered why this girl was so interested in a bathtub.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 11:52 PM

LOL, Sinsull!! Some cat!!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 01:37 PM

I haven't ever seen anything, that I know of. I'm more prone to feeling things. And once in awhile in our old house, there are sounds with no obvious explanation... like things falling on the floor in the kitchen, with nothing out of place, and the cat sitting right next to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 11:26 AM

Speaking of the paranormal, a friend and I saw something in broad daylight a couple of years ago that I've never heard even postulated by anyone else. "Seeing" an animal in the clouds, OK. But I had never seen even a letter, much less a word, until that day.

Does some oldtimer out there remember those DRINK PEPSI ads scrolled in the sky back in the 40s? A small plane would loop around releasing something (dry ice? Some kind of chemical?) that spelt out whatever. The letters would form legibly and then drift away, quite quickly.

Well, a couple of days after a friend had died unexpectedly, a friend and I were walking along a roadway. We had been discussing Earl's sudden death but were silent for a moment. Then my friend said, 'Look up there- what do you see?'

I looked up into the sky, and there in front of us, formed clearly from white clouds- MUCH clearer and firmer than from the old Pepsi planes- was the word 'Earl'. The E was large and puffy and double width, the small letters single thickness, and there was a flourish extending from the l, partially underlining the word.

The sky was clear- there were absolutely no other clouds in the sky, other than low on the horizon to the west there was a thin bank of clouds lit by the setting sun. Gradually the name slid to the left going out of sight around the bend in the forested road. As we walked around the bend perhaps two minutes later, there was not a scrap of cloud in the sky.

I was not nearly as blown away at that time as I am now. Somehow then it was more funny than anything else- as in, 'Isn't that just like Earl!'.   Now, of course, from time to time, one of us will say, 'Did we really see that?'

And yes. We did.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 11:36 AM

About 10-12 of us once watched the Ghost Riders in the Sky, but they weren't cowboys, it was a re enactment of what appeared to be a Civil War battle complete with cannons and cannon bals in the clouds. Very strange.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 01:49 PM

Sorcha, would you give a little detail, please? One of the things that bothers me about recounting the Earl story above is that it seems that no one thinks about it or its implications. Like my oldest brother- he said, 'Yeah, I can believe that' and launched into his own story, while I wasn't asking for belief (I already knew it was true), I was interested in hearing someone's views on how that kind of thing could happen and what it tells us about the afterlife. How, for instance, does a person (Earl, who was not overtly religious) get permission? capability? the clout? How long does a person's spirit hang around after death? In Earl's case, it was two or three days after his death- in another state, even.

Oddly, also, although my friend and he had a strong connection of friendship, he and I did not, even though we had known each other in a casual way for about 10 years. (My friend said that she was greatly relieved when I saw it too; didn't know how to explain it to herself if she was the only one. I, on the other hand, am surprised that I too was able to see it- I would have thought it required actual mourning.)

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 02:22 PM

We were driving from Winfield, KS to Grand Lake of the Cherokees in OK. Just past Coffeyville as I recall, one of us saw this battle in the clouds. 3 car loads of us pulled over and got out to watch. 2 opposing armies with horses, pennons, cannon, etc. are battling it out in the sky. Several other cars also stopped to watch so it wasn't a hallucination of mine. As more and more cannon smoke appeared it finally obscured the battle completely. I was about 14 so this would have been about 1965. I have lost contact with the surviving people so I don't know if they would remember it.

The Earl story is fascinating!

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 04:10 PM

Ebbie, perhaps you were meant to see it simply as confirmation, for your friend who also saw it, that it really existed.

I used to have a book about North or South Carolina, can't remember which one, but there was a true story in there about a ghostly civil war battle which went on in some woods, much as Sorcha describes, just on the ground. People who had seen it, heard the battle, saw the soldiers, horses, cannons, etc.

I believe that a person's soul can hang around for quite awhile. I also believe such phenomena is as nothing to accomplish, from the "other side." A very good book which answers a lot of these after-life type of questions is From My World to Yours by Jasper Swain. It's out of print. It's written by a very practical South African lawyer whose son and his friend were killed in a head-on collision. The son came back to basically dictate the book about what happened as he died, etc. It's fascinating and the father was such a skeptic, at first, that it took quite a bit to convince him to pay attention.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 05:05 PM

Ebbie:

I think there are possible coherent if non-materialistic explanations, and you are not the only one tohave seen cloud-art done by a dearly departed. See PM.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Grab
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 07:04 PM

As a "sceptic" (in other words I may have an opinion on the likelihood of something, but I'll reserve judgement if it's not proven either way), I'd love to have such an experience. Unfortunately, not so far.

The problem is always determining between ppl with genuine experiences and boring goths who want to make folks think they're interesting sensitive souls tortured by contact with the spirit world (the closest most have got to the spirit world is Jack Daniels). Luckily age probably rules out most of the latter here. ;-)

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 07:26 PM

Ebbie,
I think it may be a leap of faith to assume that the departed Earl caused the phenomenon. It is just as likely that your friend did it unconsciously.
Just a thought.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 09:55 PM

Sins:

Given two people in comparably good condition, I would be more inclined to bet on the discorporate one being able to create telekinetic effects on that scale. Just a matter of opinion, though....and everyone has got one of those, right?? :>)


A

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:11 AM

Humph! Yesterday I wrote a response to your post, Sinsull, and today it's gone. My premise was that believing #1, that an unconscious mind is able to produce such a real phenomenon and #2, that I was present and able to see it takes a greater leap of faith than does the simple question as to whether there is life on the other side.

Any time that I start thinking that maybe this life is all that there is for us, Sins, all I have to do is think on the image of a baby being born. The babe would be ready to swear that where s/he has been is a safe, known environment and where s/he is being compelled to go is totally alien and downright scary.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:17 AM

It is interesting to compare Ebbie's Earl story above with how she told the story three years ago: here.

'It was completely stable' now becomes 'Gradually the name slid to the left' and, on the whole, the story gains in detail with increasing distance to the event.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:32 AM

"Two days after a friend unexpectedly died, another friend and I were walking along, talking about him. At a certain point, she said, "Ebbie", look up there- what do you see?

I looked up into the sky, not many degrees above the horizon. I said, Yeah, looks like an E- an a- an r- an l!!

In an otherwise cloudless sky was a band of clouds that formed our friend's name. (The only other place there were any clouds was right above the setting sun, way off to the west)It was completely stable and clearer than the old Drink Pepsi-Cola! smoke ads, if you're old enough to remember them.

We were not nearly as astonished and disbelieving then as we are now- mainly it made us laugh tearfully at Earl's 'goodbye'. Now, three years later, the implications boggle my mind.

So, everybody, if you can explain this to me I would welcome it.
Ebbie "

Wolfgang, I am disappointed in you. Where in the world do you see a discrepancy?

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,furcone
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:58 AM

I assume that Wolfgang is pointing out the increased detail in the later telling of the story.
This could be insignificant & just due to having more time to tell the story, or whatever - or it could indicate that the mind has adapted the memory to suit what Ebbie wants to believe, or maybe the tale has picked up detail from minute adaptations in being told over time, or the event has been fleshed out by later interpretations being hung on the basic memory.
On the other hand - maybe Earl knew a sky-writer who had their own spectacular way of saying goodbye.
Or maybe it was Earl.
We can only form our own opinions from what Ebbie tells us.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,Lepus Rex (where the fuck is my cookie?)
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:59 AM

Ooh, I got one. A couple of weeks ago, some friends of mine were hanging out in front of a restaurant (Pharoah's or something, I think it's called now... Just north of 49th st. on Central ave. in lovely Columbia Heights, Minnesota.) when they had an odd experience:

They noticed an elderly Asian man with a cane, slowly jaywalking in their direction across the northbound lanes of Central. Then they saw a car headed directly towards the man, seemingly unaware of his presence. The car didn't brake or swerve, but plowed right into him, or rather, it seemed, through him, and the driver continued on North. The old man was still there, walking across Central. My friends looked at each-other for a moment, to ask the other if they saw that, and when they looked back a second later, the old man had disappeared.

Although they both agree on what they saw, they're split on whether it was "paranormal" or not. Whatever, it was weird.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 12:26 PM

Ebbie, you seem to see more in my post than what was there.

Furcone did get my main point exactly. I like his or her sky-writer explanation.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 12:44 PM

Believing that Earl set something up ahead of time, knowing he was going to die *suddenly*, with a "skywriter" and knew at exactly what point Ebbie and her friend would be walking in that particular spot is ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 01:20 PM

My experience is not paranormal but real. In 1979 I witnessed two softball sized globes of light pass through the brick wall of our home. At a leisurely walking pace they passed through the opposite walls without effect - except for us and our cat who fluffed up in fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 01:37 PM

As my mother would have said, "You guys take the cake!"

One more time:

July 2003
"Then my friend said, 'Look up there- what do you see?'

I looked up into the sky, and there in front of us, formed clearly from white clouds- MUCH clearer and firmer than from the old Pepsi planes- was the word 'Earl'. The E was large and puffy and double width, the small letters single thickness, and there was a flourish extending from the l, partially underlining the word.

The sky was clear- there were absolutely no other clouds in the sky, other than low on the horizon to the west there was a thin bank of clouds lit by the setting sun. Gradually the name slid to the left going out of sight around the bend in the forested road. As we walked around the bend perhaps two minutes later, there was not a scrap of cloud in the sky."

August 2001

"Two days after a friend unexpectedly died, another friend and I were walking along, talking about him. At a certain point, she said, "Ebbie", look up there- what do you see?

I looked up into the sky, not many degrees above the horizon. I said, Yeah, looks like an E- an a- an r- an l!!

In an otherwise cloudless sky was a band of clouds that formed our friend's name. (The only other place there were any clouds was right above the setting sun, way off to the west)It was completely stable and clearer than the old Drink Pepsi-Cola! smoke ads, if you're old enough to remember them.

We were not nearly as astonished and disbelieving then as we are now- mainly it made us laugh tearfully at Earl's 'goodbye'. Now, three years later, the implications boggle my mind."

As you can see by comparing, I gave substantially more detail in the first account.


Wolfgang, did I say or imply in 2001 that eventually the word just blinked out or faded or "gradually slid to the left"? No. I did not- because I didn't give that detail.

The detail of how the letters looked is substantiated by what I drew in chalk when I got home that day.

August 2001:
It was completely stable and clearer than the old Drink Pepsi-Cola! smoke ads,
July 2003:
formed clearly from white clouds- MUCH clearer and firmer than from the old Pepsi planes- was the word 'Earl'

Keep in mind that I don't live in a vacuum nor does my friend. On occasion we still discuss the phenomenon.

It is interesting to compare Ebbie's Earl story above with how she told the story three years ago: here.

'It was completely stable' now becomes 'Gradually the name slid to the left' and, on the whole, the story gains in detail with increasing distance to the event. Wolfgang

No, Wolfgang. I don't think I am reading more into your post than what you meant. As far as I am concerned, just then you lost credibility as a dispassionate scientist interested only in the truth, revealing yourself as another faulty human being with your own agenda.

Eb

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 01:39 PM

kat, I agree your story is utterly ridiculous.

The way I understand furcone the idea is far far simpler. Earl may have had a skywriter friend who this way did tribute to his friend and Ebbie and friend just happened to be near.

No need to claim Earl foreseeing his sudden death just to fit the theme of the thread.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 02:21 PM

Ebbie,

you make look it this way only be leaving out in the citation of the 2003 narrative sentences you do include in the 2000 (not 2001, BTW) narrative.
You include We were not nearly as astonished and disbelieving then as we are now- mainly it made us laugh tearfully at Earl's 'goodbye'. Now, three years later, the implications boggle my mind.
You leave out I was not nearly as blown away at that time as I am now. Somehow then it was more funny than anything else- as in, 'Isn't that just like Earl!'.   Now, of course, from time to time, one of us will say, 'Did we really see that?'
You include Two days after a friend unexpectedly died, another friend and I were walking along, talking about him.
You leave out a couple of days after a friend had died unexpectedly, a friend and I were walking along a roadway. We had been discussing Earl's sudden death but were silent for a moment.
Include comparable parts and have another look.


What did you mean then in 2000 when posting 'It was completely stable'?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 04:33 PM

NOT my story, Wolfgang...a theory posted by furcone, whoever THAT is, and supported by yourself.

...Ebbie and friend just happened to be near. Yeah, right...why don't you admit, as Ebbie has pointed out, that you are a closed book when it comes to anything which doesn't fit your supposed scientific methods?

You make it a point to seek out these threads and deliberately disrupt what starts as a convivial sharing among friends, harming no one through their telling. It is also a bit much that you take the time and expend the energy to seek out old postings and try to prove something by comparison. I don't think most people give a damn.

No matter what Ebiie said or didn't say, you would never admit to any evidence of anything anyway, so what is the point? I think you do it just to stir things up because you cannot stand to see others believe in something that is so contrary to your own beliefs. Ever heard of "live and let live" or "if you don't like the subject matter, don't open the thread?"

It's been years...I think we all know, by now, your feelings about these types of discussions. Why don't you save it for your classroom?

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 05:07 PM

OK, the bit about details was subjective. The bit about the possibility of a skywriter got twisted to provide a reason to ridicule him. He sure did get a defensive sort of reaction! Can we just live and let live - and perhaps state our opinions sometimes without having different ones bludgeoned to death? (Answers self: No, Jeri. This is the internet. This is Mudcat. Any flaming is generally seen as more fun than the original topic and everything debate fodder.)

The one and only experience I can remember having was when I was about 18. (I may have posted this at some time, so plz forgive.) I woke up one morning and my mom was in the living room and saw her hanging up the phone. I KNEW my aunt had just died before she even told me what the call was about.

I'd had a dream right before I woke that I was walking through my aunt and uncle's house (where they lived before they moved), only it now just contained a series of long corridors, panelled in the same pine their house (from before they moved away) had been. There were doors. There was a sort of shelf, about the size a coffin would fit on, with a black curtain. I pulled back the curtain - nothing was there, but my aunt's voice said "now this is all yours," and I awoke. I think the "all" really meant memories and the "house" was how I remembered her in my own mind.

There's a very tiny chance I'd heard part of my mom's side of the conversation before I'd awakened. I know I was surprised to see her hanging up the phone so early in the morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 06:20 PM

skywriter got twisted to provide a reason to ridicule him
Twisted by whom and to ridicule whom, Jeri? Sorry, I am not clear on your meaning.

As to the other, well, I try to ignore the bait most of the time, anymore, but when it goes on and on, in any thread which we have like this one, and the same person makes it a point to come in and ridicule us for our beliefs, I will speak up.

I don't think Mudcat has been nearly as rife with this kind of contention as it has been in the past, though, so maybe these instances stand out more. I still stand by my reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 06:35 PM

Meow Meow Meow Meow Meow

Same song different place.

Come on Kitty why you gotta be like that?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 07:31 PM

Oh shut the hell up, Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 08:04 PM

"My premise was that believing #1, that an unconscious mind is able to produce such a real phenomenon and #2, that I was present and able to see it takes a greater leap of faith than does the simple question as to whether there is life on the other side."

That is an interesting observation, Ebbie. My experiences have led me to the exact opposite conclusion. It is easier for me to believe that the human mind has incredible and untouched potential which will someday make experiences such as yours commonplace. But, as Amos says, we are each entitled to our opinion.

As to Wolfgang's comparison of the two posts: I don't get it. The story has stayed the same. The details do not change, exaggerate, whatever, the original telling. Or am I missing something?

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Helen
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 09:49 PM

Wolfgang has shown an interest in previous threads on a topic which he seems to think contributes to the proof or disproof of psychic experiences. That topic is the fallibility of memory and recall, especially over time.

In this instance he seems to want to introduce this topic again, also in a thread about ghosts and the paranormal (this seems to be his pattern of bringing up the memory topic) and he has succeeded again in getting a reaction. If you want to read more about his opinions then I suggest you look at previous similar threads to evaluate his logic.

Wolfgang,

I respectfully suggest that if you wish to start your own discussion on the theory you hold that some psychic experiences can be explained in part, or even explained away, by the fallibility of memory then I suggest that you start a new thread and introduce the topic with an explanation of what you think about all of this.

Maybe then when you inject your references to recall and memory into these specific threads about the paranormal and psychic experiences we will be able to have a better understanding of what you are saying based on the thread you have started, and to which you could add a link.

By singling out one particular person's post and analysing it according to your theory or opinion you are in fact hijacking this unrelated thread.

As it stands at present, although you often espouse the importance of using rigorous scientific method, so far I have not seen evidence that you do have an open mind to new evidence. Maybe, in your own thread about the topic that you are obviously so interested in, your scientific method will become more obvious.

Respectfully,
Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 09:51 PM

Wolfgang, even though it wasn't you who refreshed this (it was Rapaire who has stories of his own), really, man, why do you persist in coming in and trashing the rest of us? Neither side is ever going to change the other's mind. I agree with the "just don't open them" thing. I do love the personal stories and will probably never be 'rational' about this stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 03:22 AM

Wolfgang - we need you around more often - thank you for some rational insights - keep up the good work!

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 07:38 AM

convivial sharing among friends

Kat, that's fine with me, so I just add what my experiences with the paranormal are or do you just want to admit experiences with a special slant?

I do get the impression by your reactions (Helen, e.g.) that you still completely misunderstand my first post about Ebbie. Whatever my contribution to that misunderstanding was I am sorry about. Perhaps my post was way too short.

To make it explicit: I see nothing in the two posts by Ebbie which is not completely within the normal range of variation when stories based on fact do get retold. Details vary, and on the whole, usually the story gets longer (there are several explanations to that and furcone has mentioned them). The only moral in my eyes from reading Ebbie's two accounts is not to take every detail reported as gospel truth. That was my sole aim in that post.

Something totally different would be to claim that the gist of the story is not based on fact. If you read without anger my posts you'll see easily that I have made no such claim here (I have made it in different contexts, Helen, but not here). I have stated that I like furcone's sky-writer explanation. This can only be read to mean that I believe Ebbie's story to be based on fact (at least the gist of it) but that I tend to prefer another explanation for the same set of observations. Furcone has only presented what Ebbie has asked for in the other thread: So, everybody, if you can explain this to me I would welcome it. Some funny kind of welcome it was.

why don't you admit, as Ebbie has pointed out, that you are a closed book

Kat, the ones who are closed books are you and others here when pleading not to be told of other possible ideas. I agree here completely with furcone, again, who did list several possibilities including the one or maybe it was Earl. Yes, I even see this possibility but you may excuse that another possibility is more probable in my evaluation.

You differ in your evaluation and that's fine with me but please have the tolerance to let others also post theirs.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 07:40 AM

I suppose experiences with Succubus would be included in this catagory.

The slow awakening in the dead of night to find yourself paralysised and terrified and unable to speak. It is accompanied by indreasing weight and pressure and the dread of death. Mentally calling on the powers of Christ over death will immediately vanish the spirit. Yeah it happened to me.

Sincerely,

Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 09:08 AM

I refreshed this thread because I wanted to share the stories, which I did. I thought that there had to be such a thread, searched for it, found it, used it. Recycle, reuse....

I could easily explain what happened in my stories in ways other than attributing to them paranormal or supernatural attributes. Perhaps those explanations are the truth (whatever that is, seems slippery, and don't remind me of "Jesting Pilate").

There are many explanations for these occurences, and being one who tries to shave with Occam's Razor, the simplest and most mundane explanations are probably correct. My Aunt Tilly probably did awaken and "saw" my Grandmother in a half-sleeping state -- it had been a traumatic day and her thoughts would have been on Grandmother -- and other explanations are possible that do not invoke the "spirit world." I was 13 at the time, I knew it then.

Whether or not one believes in such things as ghosts, survival after death, and so on is irrelevant -- these are tales of what others experienced, not detailed reports of scientific research.

But I do know one, undeniable, thing about an "afterlife": all too soon we're all going to know The Truth, the absolute, no-possible-doubt, Truth about it.

In the mean time, why not sit back and enjoy the stories? Ater all, you can enjoy a song or a symphony without discussing or even thinking about the physics of sound. And I promise you that even though I know the reasons that produce the spectrum, I still get a kick out of rainbows.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Helen
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 09:53 AM

Wolfgang, you said: "Perhaps my post was way too short" and that is exactly why I have suggested that you start a thread with a fuller explanation of what you are talking about. Then you can insert a link to that thread into these type of threads and people will have a better opportunity to understand what you are saying.

The way it is now, you are making brief allusions to something you know and understand very well without giving everyone the opportunity to know more about what you are basing your statements on.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 10:30 AM

But I do know one, undeniable, thing about an "afterlife": all too soon we're all going to know The Truth, the absolute, no-possible-doubt, Truth about it.



Well, I dunno -- if the rich variability of human experience on this side of the life and death divide is actually holographic, then it is possible there will be as rich and varied an array of "truths" to be experienced when we shed our mneat credit-card units and shuffle "over".

Just speculating here-- the notion that one kind of space-time will be common to all discorporate entities is kind of like Newtonian physics -- it looks right, as long as you don't look too close.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 11:20 AM

I agree with Helen, Wolfgang. It would be easier to understand what you mean if you were to start a thread explaining.

I just add what my experiences with the paranormal are

Have you had any experiences with the paranormal? I thought you didn't believe in such things. I'd be interested in hearing of your own personal experiences.

It's that personal bit which gets me. It seems intolerant, to me, for you to come in, seemingly with the express purpose of debunking our own personal stories, rather than sharing with us your own. I don't think any of us really share our experiences in order to have them dissected.

Finally, if some of us seem like closed books to you perhaps it is because, as I said, over the years we've learned what your views are on the subject and grow weary of the arguing.

Sorry, Rapaire, for the drift. I won't be posting to this thread again.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 02:33 PM

MEOW!

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 06:34 PM

Okay, speaking of cats:

I used to kid with my mother that my cat Shadow was her "granddaughter" and gave her a picture of her. Mom displayed it on one of her bookshelves, and repeated my comment to visitors. Shadow got cancer, and I knew after two surgeries and chemotherapy that she wasn't going to make it. I kept Mom apprised of developments. One morning, when Mom was watching TV, Shadow's picture fell off the bookshelf. She put it back up. A few minutes later, it fell off again. Mom replaced it again. The third time it fell, she said, "Okay, I get the message. But I'm not calling my daughter because if the cat's really dead, she'll be too upset to talk to me right now." The picture stayed put after that. The morning all this happened was the morning I took Shadow in to have her put to sleep.

Mom's door and windows were closed. There was no fan or air conditioner running. There had been no vibrations from neighboring apartments, and her building was far enough off the road that vibrations from a passing heavy vehicle didn't cause the picture to fall. She told me there was no reason for the picture to keep falling off the shelf, and there was no reason for it to have stopped falling after she announced that she'd gotten the message.

Mom had other "visitations" as well: clocks falling off walls, knicknacks carefully turned on their sides, etc. They didn't scare her, but rather frustrated the hell out of her. "It's like being sent a blank telegram," she used to say. "Somebody's sending me a message, about SOMETHING but they won't tell me what about!" The instance with Shadow's picture was the only one that was clear.

Given Mom's sensitivity (and mine, on occasion) to the "paranormal" I kind of expected a message when she passed away - falling pictures, phantom phone call, whatever - but didn't get one. I distinctly got the impression, however, that she was Quite Put Out about all of the strangers in her home after she died: the police, the Telophase folks, and some friends who came to give moral support. I half expected to see her coming out of her bedroom saying, "Who the hell are all these people nosing about my things????!?" Pretty creepy feeling.

G

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Helen
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 07:27 PM

G,

One day early last year I was on the first day of my 2 week holidays. I was feeling a bit overworked and needed to be able to unwind so that I could enjoy the time off. I had work to prepare for my next round of classes in a couple of weeks but I had decided that this was going to be a "do nothing and relax" day.

The problem was I couldn't seem to relax. It was like I had ants in my pants. I couldn't sit still, I couldn't read my book, I tried watching a tv show I enjoy and I couldn't focus. Finally I made the decision that if I couldn't relax I might as well do some work, so I went in and sat at my work desk and as soon as I sat down the phone rang.

It was my brother-in-law telling me that my Mum had died suddenly and unexpectedly. That explained to me why I had that "ants in the pants" feeling.

My Mum and I always had a really good psychic connection, and my sister and I as well, although since we grew up not as strong as between Mum & I. I always knew that Mum would let me know when she had passed over. Because I was overwrought anyway the message didn't come through clearly - there was too much static in my brain, but I was getting something which was making me jumpy and I couldn't clarify the message.

I woke up in the early hours of the morning knowing that my Grandma was just about to pass over, and I homed in her mentally/psychically and couldn't work out why I was looking down at her from about ceiling height, but then she "came" back down to the bed and passed over not long after that.

I also woke up when one of my beloved cats died in the veterinary hospital at 4am.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: GUEST,native
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 08:23 PM

yes I have had an experence ,with some thing couldnt see it .Look up the meaning of GHOST in a dicksonary. I have been told by a very inteligent man,that dreams are more real if you wake up in the middle of a dream ,normally you wake up a little while after

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 10:06 PM

Five years ago, neuroscientist Christof Koch of the California Institute of Technology (Caltech), neurosurgeon Itzhak Fried of UCLA, and their colleagues discovered that a single neuron in the human brain can function much like a sophisticated computer and recognize people, landmarks, and objects, suggesting that a consistent and explicit code may help transform complex visual representations into long-term and more abstract memories.

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Now Koch and Fried, along with former Caltech graduate student and current postdoctoral fellow Moran Cerf, have found that individuals can exert conscious control over the firing of these single neuronsÑdespite the neurons' location in an area of the brain previously thought inaccessible to conscious controlÑand, in doing so, manipulate the behavior of an image on a computer screen.

The work, which appears in a paper in the October 28 issue of the journal Nature, shows that "individuals can rapidly, consciously, and voluntarily control neurons deep inside their head," says Koch, the Lois and Victor Troendle Professor of Cognitive and Behavioral Biology and professor of computation and neural systems at Caltech.

The study was conducted on 12 epilepsy patients at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, where Fried directs the Epilepsy Surgery Program. All of the patients suffered from seizures that could not be controlled by medication. To help localize where their seizures were originating in preparation for possible later surgery, the patients were surgically implanted with electrodes deep within the centers of their brains. Cerf used these electrodes to record the activity, as indicated by spikes on a computer screen, of individual neurons in parts of the medial temporal lobeÑa brain region that plays a major role in human memory and emotion.

Full article here.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 01:02 AM

Interesting thread - including the 'thread within the thread' that Justa Picker linked to. That one I don't think I had seen before.

About my Earl 'vision' and the suggestion that a skywriter had written the name in the sky which I and my friend had just happened to be in the right place to see, I'm not sure that I ever explained before that these are Juneau skies- we don't have much air traffic of any kind. Any plane one sees is either approaching our airport or is leaving our airport. Our sky does not have planes way high going to points unknown. Besides which, if we had a skywriter in town we would know about it. This is not a big town.

That said, the only thing that irks me about Wolfgang's implication that my accounts had any conflicting points. I should think that if I had told the story with exactly the same amount of detail both times that that would show artifice.

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Amergin
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 01:05 AM

I heard demons one night....saw them out of the corner of my eyes just out of sight, too.....but then I was on 5 hits of acid at the time....

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: LadyJean
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 01:46 AM

Then there was then night I woke up because my sewing machine was going on it's own.
I was a bit disconcerted, until I saw my cat, sitting on the foot pedal looking pleased with herself.

I have long said, the best way to summon demons is to open a can of tuna and chant the incantation, "Here kitty kitty."

Subject: RE: BS: Experiences with Ghosts & The Paranormal
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 02:26 AM

Hey, it just occurred to me that this is the Halloween/ghost story season. (I'm *real* swift)

I have lots of other experiences to relate. This is another one I recounted before on the Mudcat, I think, but here goes:

An English actor friend, hoping to get permission to extend his visa started an acting class. There were about 10 of us and since it was at my abode I got to be in it.

My 'abode' was a hundred year old three-story plus basement house museum with an interesting history. We held the class in the first floor.

Our assignment for the last session was to create/write/perform something original. We all came up with fairly impressive efforts, I thought. But this one woman- 40-45ish - took the prize, so to speak.

She stood in the archway that divided the dining room from the fireplace room and told us in a trembling voice about this girl who had grown up having to bury incidents in her life she couldn't bear thinking about so she had to 'close and lock door after door.' And now, she said, this same girl now grown into a woman is ready to face the past and she is having to open door after door.

Sometimes her voice broke, sometimes it stopped completely and sometimes it seemed like she wouldn't be able to go on- but she always did. In front of her in a semicircle on couch and chairs e waited, rapt, for her next words.

Then I "saw" a fairly tall male figure appear in the kitchen doorway to my right. For just an instant it stood there and then he moved swiftly to her side and put his arm firmly around her shoulder. And that's how they stood until she was done.