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Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit?
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Subject: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Phil Dirt Date: 10 Jul 01 - 10:11 AM As this forum is the most developed forum I've yet to run across, ...and because you folks here seem to be the most creative in your manner of posting that I've yet to come across... I was wondering. I've had an ongoing conversation with a friend from another, developing forum, concerning...well, let me share an email; I love words (sometimes too many of them) and I'm fascinated with this new form of communication. The forum post is a new type of literature (with a small "L") but I find it amazingly expressive. It does to writing what MTV did to video--pares it down to essentials. Traditional punctuation doesn't have the breadth of expression to do what forum posting demands--making impression type statements. Now we use punctation in three dimensions and we merely proof-read to see if the resulting statement conveys what we meant. I wonder if language has ever evolved so rapidly (or become meaningless so quickly). You CANNOT post grammatically correct paragraph breaks because the readers WILL become distracted and not read---
fascinating. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Bagpuss Date: 10 Jul 01 - 10:25 AM Can't help you there, but I can tell you which thread you can discuss the size of your arse in.... Hehehe But yes, I would agree that internet posting and e-mail has a distinct new style re- paragraphing. Basically I use a new paragraph where I would pause slightly in conversation. And I think that internet posting is almost a hybrid between spoken and more formal written English. Bagpuss |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: IanC Date: 10 Jul 01 - 10:27 AM Phil Here's an example of a thread generally regarded as good. Punctuation rules don't seem to have changed much, though brevity is valued. I think this is a good forum because people usually spend most of their time "on topic" so I'm not sure how far you'll get with the "lit crit" approach. In my experience, there's those that do and those that talk about it and if we start analysing how or why we do what we do, we'll probably stop doing it.
Best wishes |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Bagpuss Date: 10 Jul 01 - 10:43 AM Have you tried the Mr Cranky site. If you want I can tell you where there are some great threads hidden away there. People posting as historical characters etc. I wouldn't attempt to find them on the site yourself, as the site is huge and also contains a lot of rubbish. Bagpuss |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GeorgeH Date: 10 Jul 01 - 10:43 AM No, I don't see it that way at all, I'm afraid. It's more like a set of conversations in a pub (with a lot of nice music going on in the background, plus some which isn't really to my taste . .) And the beauty is that you can drift from conversation to conversation, and replay any one where you missed somthing interesting. And if you ask a question there's always an expert or two to give you an answer . . and perhaps the odd smart-arse who'll give you a laugh over your request. What's more, there's no charge for the beer and it doesn't get you drunk . . . G. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: wysiwyg Date: 10 Jul 01 - 10:59 AM I think a number of paradigms live here together in relative comfort most of the time. See FAQ (top of the thread list) for memorable Mudcat threads though, and do stick around. (Ignore the current upsets in the threads, OK? They always pass.) I think you also would have enjoyed member Peter T's "Thought of the Day" threads but alas he has become too busy to do them anymore. You might look a few up though (see FAQ for how). We also had an interesting discussion last week about posts lacking the usual punctuation, etc., where we talked about the relative importance of form over substance, among other things. I'll look it up and refresh it back onto today's page for you, so look for it. You will get mre out of this site and give more to this community if you join as a member, BTW. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Noreen Date: 10 Jul 01 - 12:00 PM For exercises in communal creative writing, see the 'Tavern' threads (put Tavern into the filter box at top of forum page and set age for 1 or 2 years). The main strength of this place is as a forum for discussion and sharing of information and opinions, often but by no means always, related to music. Postings are usually pretty short, but as you say, paragraphs need to be kept short for readability. The ability to make a point concisely and clearly click for an example is much to be admired in this genre! Noreen |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: katlaughing Date: 10 Jul 01 - 12:54 PM I don't agree that one cannot post in regular paragraph format, at least not on this forum. In fact, if one posts in a solid block they run the risk of their posting being skipped over as it irritates readers, having no breaks. Try looking at some of the Memorable Threads listed in the Mudcat Permathread, at the top of the threads. Also, for what I consider one of the most elegant and exciting forms we use on this forum, look for the story threads with Shangri-La in the title, from the past couple of months. The talent is breathtaking, some of the posts very long and avidly read. Thanks, kat |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: wysiwyg Date: 10 Jul 01 - 01:07 PM Here is the related thread about form and substance: ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Phil Dirt Date: 10 Jul 01 - 01:47 PM I think Noreen is understanding my question--that is I've noticed some things that have come about from the idiosycricies of forum posting that have created a new way of writing that is as different as the short story is from the novel (and I don't just mean in length). I remember browsing about here some time ago and reading a story addition from your Jen ellen or JenEllen (sorry can't remember how it's spelled) but it was a stunning example of creative writing within the new format----it had inventive onomatopoeia and creative punctuation that allowed a posting length story to be told in an impressionistic manner. kat/katlaughing "I don't agree that one cannot post in regular paragraph format, at least not on this forum. In fact, if one posts in a solid block they run the risk of their posting being skipped over as it irritates readers, having no breaks." Did you write that the way you meant it to read? It seems like two contradicting points. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: katlaughing Date: 10 Jul 01 - 01:53 PM No, perhaps I read your original posting incorrectly. What I meant was if one posts without paragraphs, they run the risk of having their postings skipped over, so it is best if people use paragraph form. You are right about Jenellen and also PeterT, esp. in that story thread which I mentioned. Thanks, kat |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Jul 01 - 02:18 PM I don't think the way we write here is particularly different from the way we'd write in a letter - which means we have all kinds of different ways of writing, and we pick up mannerisms from eqch other sometimes, housen style.
As for paragraphing,it all depends on what you mean by "regular paragraph format" - how long your paragraphs should be.
The wise practice here is the same as in newspapers with narrow columns - keep the text broken up, to make it more readable.
Here is what it says on Fowler's Modern English Usage:
The purpose of paragraphing is to give the reader a rest. The writer is saying to him:"Have you got that? If so I'll go on to the next point."
There can be no general rule about the most suitable length for a paragraph; a succession of very short ones is as irritating as very long ones are wearisome.
The paragraph is essentially a unit of thought not of length: it must be homogeneous in subject-matter and sequential in treatment. If a single sequence of treatment of a single subject means an unreasonably long paragraph, it may be divided into more than one. But passages that have not this unity must not be combined into one, even though each by itself may seem to make an unduly short paragraph.
Paragraphing is also a matter of the eye. A reader will address himself more readily to his task if he sees from the start that he will have breathing-spaces from time to time than if what he has before him looks like a marathon course. (I put in a couple of paragraph breaks here which Fowler hadn't - but ones which were in accordance with his excellent and still relevant advice on the matter.) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Phil Dirt Date: 10 Jul 01 - 02:22 PM kat/katlaughing, Oh, I see. I think we were saying the same thing, though in a different way. What I meant by not using grammaticlly correct paragraph breaks was that, in order to be read on a forum, one must put in MORE breaks (more white space) than is GRAMMATICALLY called for. Those stories you pointed me toward were part of what I was talking about. As literature they couldn't (practially speaking) have happened twenty years ago, or without the forum as a medium. 1. The way they spontaneously build or inspire something that is bigger than an original intent. 2. The way the successive poster need not point out his(her) allusions to the previous posts. 3. The way they can splinter into new lines. Technically it could have been done with a group getting together in a room---but as literature it's value wasn't fore-thought----it evolved. re: Three dimensional and creative punctuation. Your WYSIWYG(that one took me a while...What you see...) is rather a master of the three dimensional punctuation. She seems capable of expressing more with the characters above the number than I can with all the letters beneath them. creative punctuation is, for instance, that and elipsis no longer means a word or words is missing. It now means...uh...well...that you can't make up your mind. I think you'll get what I mean if you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>focus<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: MMario Date: 10 Jul 01 - 02:32 PM Part of this is due to the fact that this site is designed (most cleverly by Max and his elves)to act as a forum - not a chat room; not a message drop/board. It is designed to be two way interactive communication - yet also a collection point and repository of information. Haven't found another place like it on the web yet.
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Hollowfox Date: 10 Jul 01 - 02:36 PM Phil, are you in the band Phil Dirt and the Dozers? You're local to me if you are. Actually, I see the 'Net as returning writing to a much earlier form, although for a very different reason. You see, a friend of mine is a medieval calligraphy enthusiast (as well as an excellent blues guitarist, just to have a musical connection *g*), and he pointed out to me that before the invention of the printing press, many kinds of abbreviations were used to conserve time, labor, and material. (After all, if you've got to peel a cow to get something to write on, you're going to want to make use of every bit you can!) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 10 Jul 01 - 02:49 PM Interesting topic. We have pursued this communal writing concept in several threads beginning with this one, and culminating in the Shangri La story that Katlaughing mentioned above, which was the final complete one. Interesting to note the evolution and smoothing of the techniques since the beginning. I think it is fascinating, and probably a new form of fiction indeed. It has gained acceptance here despite the fact that it falls outside the stated purpose of this Forum (and despite some strenuous and sometimes nasty objections), but I find the phenomenon one of the most intriguing aspects of Mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Phil Dirt Date: 10 Jul 01 - 03:03 PM I confess--I lifted Phil's Nom-de-gig so we must be in the same region Hollowfox. You don't have delete option for your own posts here so I assume that the forum is just developed enough that only certain folks feel "up to" the challenge of those chain stories. I mean, I noticed some of the stories were added and not re-referrenced. Some additions just died and as the stories (you linked me to) progressed, only a few participated. I guess I'm kind of curious, did you pre-arrange or re-arrange stories and their lines via independent email, or was it entirely spontateous? And with the folks whose story lines engendered no response (if you're still around) did you recieve independent wich that you stop for the good of the story or were you consolled or....you know...whatEVER....(just curious if I try this on another site---I could see potentially hurt feelings that would be counter productive to building up the site) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Phil Dirt Date: 10 Jul 01 - 03:20 PM What happened..........? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: MMario Date: 10 Jul 01 - 03:25 PM Phil - it is spontaneous. Sometimes the death of a plot split etc is becuase it doesn't get picked up; sometimes because the poster doesn't make it back before another line develops to the point of takeover. sometimes life happens. but if you peruse - you will see that what collaberation occurs occurs online - in varied asides/negotiations/complaints/approvals/applause, etc. Sometimes a story line has no interest for me. sometimes the writing and characterization is such that I am uncomfortable adding my lesser attempts. Sometimes I love the story, love the plot, love the characters, and just enjoy them with no urge to add. Many people just don't feel like doing it. Others do.
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: MMario Date: 10 Jul 01 - 03:37 PM oh - you had a post-stutter. a number of possible reasons for it, no biggie unless it happens to you a lot. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Jul 01 - 03:49 PM Pedantic point: Paragraphing has nothing to do with grammar as such. And as Fowler pointed out in that quote I gave, splitting long paragraphs to make them easier to read is perfectly good usage, and always has been.
Some things change, as and when they need to - but that one hasn't changed, and doesn't need to.
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Russ Date: 10 Jul 01 - 04:03 PM Don't know how pedantic you intended this discussion to be. I love pedantry. Just as a matter of historical interest, my current "forum style" which falls, I believe, within the parameters you mention, has had a rather long development. Once long ago I was a teacher who came to use detailed outlines for my lectures which I duplicated and handed out at the beginning of class. The outlines were detailed but not burdened with text. They simply contained topics that I filled in orally. The idea was to give me memory-pegs and the students something with lots of white space to write notes on. I eventually came to do computer documentation and found a telegraphic style more readable and effective. When I started creating presentations I learned the value bullet points. When I finally started using email for didactic purposes I relearned and used all the things that worked previously. The point is that I think that "forum style" has antecedents in various written rather than oral communications. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: MMario Date: 10 Jul 01 - 04:07 PM True enough Russ, but it also has elements of conversational and oral communication; not only that - those elements (In my opinion) tend to be from the less formal aspects of oral communication. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Russ Date: 10 Jul 01 - 04:39 PM MMario Good point. I wasn't really completely denying elements of conversational and oral communications. It is just that in my own experience my forum posts are much more like the forms of written communication I mentioned than my oral communication both formal and informal. When I am speaking I am much more verbose and my sentences are much longer and more complex. My speaking style is usually consciously oratorical. Now that I think about it my oral style is actually more like my writing style when I was a professional academic. Anecdotal evidence of course, but fun to share. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Jul 01 - 05:02 PM Clarity in exposition is the product of brevity and good grammar. As McGrath pointed out, paragraph to separate thoughts. Read a story containing converstion, and note that each voice is given a new paragraph. "Language is the expression by a speaker of his intentions. Its origin is in the desire to convey meaning, and it must become a habit on the portion of the body that produces it: i. e., the tongue." Ibn Khaldun |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Jul 01 - 05:05 PM Or the fingers in this case.(Assisted by the spellchecker.) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: MMario Date: 10 Jul 01 - 05:09 PM This is intersting - wish I had more time today to discuss. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 10 Jul 01 - 05:12 PM I would like to see input from Amos, Peter, Jen and other fiction participants on this thread. I think the weakness of the Forum Fiction technique is also its strength. First, there is very little co-ordination of the process outside of the actual thread from my experience, in other words, no one is sure where the story is going to go. This leads to unpredictable and often absurd plot twists. The unwritten law is that all of these twists must somehow be incorporated into the story. Loose ends definitely abound. But the real excitement lies in this : the story is a constantly evolving process, quite similar in many ways to an actual life experience. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Phil Dirt Date: 10 Jul 01 - 05:25 PM Yes EJ, and I must assume many times one writer even hoped for a different direction---I wonder if it can be directed and re-directed without an aside (out of the story post or and email) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Jim Dixon Date: 10 Jul 01 - 06:23 PM I just did some back-of-the-envelope calculations comparing a sample Mudcat thread (excluding headings, lyrics, salutations, signature lines, and wisecrack postings that were less than a half line long in their entirety) with a news article posted on the web site of my hometown newspaper (excluding headline and byline). Here are the results: AVERAGE WORDS PER PARAGRAPH: Newspaper: 39. Mudcat: 42. AVERAGE WORDS PER FULL LINE OF TEXT: Newspaper: 11. Mudcat: 22. AVERAGE LINES PER PARAGRAPH: Newspaper: 3.5. Mudcat: 1.9. My conclusion: The idea that Mudcatters write in unusually short paragraphs is an illusion caused by the fact that the LINES are so darn long. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: katlaughing Date: 10 Jul 01 - 06:35 PM In my experience with the story threads, there has been ocassional communication concerning what one's character might do next, with others who are posting on a regular basis with their own characters, but most of it is spontaneous. I personally love to read what Jenellen, PeterT, or LeeJ write, esp., as they inspire me in the creation of whatever personna might fit and that I feel I can carry off. I have been in story circles in the 3D world which were somewhat similar, but not nearly as gratifying. One person would hold a talking stick, start the story, then pass the stick around, each person adding to it. The stories tended to not be as involved or to have as many characters, plots, and sub-plots, as we do here. I think it is a really exciting new form of fiction and I really enjoy it very much. kat |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Burke Date: 10 Jul 01 - 08:37 PM Interesting thread, I think I may try to change my writing style. I have a whole file of messages begun but not posted. They were just too long, and meandered in a way fine for conversation, but not much good for written communication. Jim, only your words to the paragraph has any meaning. The line lengths & lines per paragraph depends on the reader's window and font size. Right now I'm reading a small font on too wide a window. The most difficult part for me in writing for Mudcat is that the paragraphs are not WYSIWYG. This message typing area is only about half as wide as my brower window and for some strange reason the text I'm viewing as I type is several points larger than the messages as displayed. As I type this paragraph is 6 lines, I'll probably see it as 3 or 4.
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: katlaughing Date: 10 Jul 01 - 09:58 PM Burke, you could always write them in Notepad, then copy and paste. If you use html, it could turn out just as you want. Personally, I like posts that "meander in a way that is fine for conversation.":-) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Jim Dixon Date: 11 Jul 01 - 02:45 PM Burke: Your point about font size and window size is correct, and something I had never considered. In fact, I didn't know I had the ability to change font size on my browser until you mentioned it. I have used several browsers (Netscape, Microsoft, Eudora, America Online, CompuServe) on several computers (at work, at home, at the public library, at friends' homes) and I never noticed that the length of the line varied. I'll bet most people set their window to full screen (if you don't, some web pages will force you to scroll horizontally) and leave the font size at whatever the default was when the software was installed. Anyway, if I did change the font size, wouldn't it affect both Mudcat and the newspaper's web site proportionally? That is, Mudcat's column width would still be about twice that of the newspaper. So my conclusion remains the same. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Burke Date: 11 Jul 01 - 10:07 PM If I maximized my browser I'd find the lines way too long to read comfortably. After I posted my message I fixed the font in IE, a brower I was only useing because my Netscape was acting up. I also narrowed my brower window. Anyone who writes web pages that make you scroll right to left, except for images & some tables, does not understand the whole concept of text mark-up. Text should automatically wrap to fit your window size. It does here in Mudcat. Kat, except to lyrics, I would not try to control line lengths. There's nothing worse than hard line breaks that come a word or two after my window has provided a warp.
I go nuts when I read e-mails that have long lines that wrap automatically
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Burke Date: 11 Jul 01 - 10:08 PM That's line wrap not warp! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Amos Date: 12 Jul 01 - 12:11 AM What's line warp is what happens when a fiery creative writer leaps into the middle of a thread and turns the entire plot and setting into a different framework with new tensions, different scenery, and different plot problems, but somehow manages to maintain continuity!! If you use the "Filterintg" box on the main forum page and set it to go back a year or two and constrin it to "Steamboat" or "Enterprise" or that wonderful Jukebox Joint story whose name I have forgot or even the bizarre and metaphysically mad ShangriLa just done six weeks back approcimately, you will see what I mean. The Steamboat was a beauty, and in many ways so was the Enterprise. The Juke Joint was mythological!!! And even the recent slapdash Tavern one was a hoot. The threaded co-creativity, when done well, floursihes in a setup like this one where the access to the past is always there, the current timeframe is easy to rollback through, and you usually know who you co-authors are, yet there is some sort of imposed chrono-logic on things. I can't speak to its deathless quality as literature but it sure captures the minds and hearts of these folks writing from here into t he past or future! A |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Phil Dirt Date: 12 Jul 01 - 07:29 AM Amos, Thanks for bringing it back on topic. I also came across an old thread that showed group writing, though in pure, brilliant silliness. It was an etymological "study" of the "Hokey Pokey" I'd still like some feedback on feelings of the use of what I refer to as three-dimensional punctuation (including "homemade" emoticons), and new use puctuation (as I mentioned one, the new use of the elipsis). I have noticed one writer who is very inventive with punctuation and the English language to make it conversational (I suppose in a lineage that would include Joel Chandler Harris) ---Dave Barry. One of your best writers in this style is Catspaw49. He seems to color a bit more outside traditional lines than most writers (or at least does so successfully) Maybe it's not new. But there is one other element that is new---access to writers. I've been writing an online story and, having noliterary history myself, the likelihood that I'd ever be published is slim. Still, here I am, writing a short story to who knows how big an audience. I assume that Jenellen, Amos, and maybe PeterT (One of your best writers though, who writes in a more traditional vein is Don Firth--holy shit that guy can write!--takes the pedantic and makes it breathe!)write for a living so this may not even occur to them. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Amos Date: 12 Jul 01 - 09:52 AM Catspaw not only colors outside the lines, he colors all over the floor, sidewalk, and half way into the next kid's coloring book!! We love him that way. The only "writing for a living" I do is electronic memos and dry heart-stopping technical documents when I can't make someone else do them! I agree that the vivid beauty of this place, among other things is that very access you mention, free from the encumbrances of commercial machinery. And commercial reward,m too, of course!! :>) Regards, A |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: MMario Date: 12 Jul 01 - 10:00 AM Amos - whatever happened to that book you were working on? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Phil Dirt Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:14 AM ...the year 2101...the class--Internet Literature 201 Tomorrow's test will be on "Mudcat--the jenellen years '99-'19" expect questions on; The mystery of kat/katlaughing (ie. What was she laughing about? why do internet searches show no other history of her and her writing) How did WYSIWYG express embarrasment? What IS WYSIWYG? What year did the mudcat split into two forums (The Literature Forum and the Music Forum? What part did realTime music share play in the split?) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: MMario Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:18 AM *guffaw* |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Phil Dirt Date: 12 Jul 01 - 02:05 PM ...seems that those that duz it are loathe to discuss it. Thanks for the participation. I guess it's time to type writing/literature into th' ol' google 'n' see what forums pop up. Thanks again, Phil |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: JenEllen Date: 12 Jul 01 - 02:27 PM Sorry Phil. Not necessarily loathe to discuss, just out of circulation for a bit. And no, I make my living in hard science, and am most definitely not a writer! First off, I'd like to thank everyone for their kind words. Also, I have to echo Leej, this forum might not have been the ideal place for it, but the writings seem to grow like weeds. (Thanks to Max for loving us dandelions.) As far as the personal messaging, I really haven't used it other than to say 'great stuff' or 'whotthehell?' or perhaps to apologize for taking liberties with someone's character. Any sort of plotting would destroy the intent. I think part of the mystery/fun/etc, of the stories is the possibility wrapped in the next posting. You have no idea what can happen next. You are forced to think on your feet more than if you were 'in charge' of a story. Instead of having a clear 'pointA to pointB' story line, you are forced to make accomodations based on other's thoughts. Some like it, some don't, and some folks, like our Leej, Amos, and Peter, really SHINE. It's a pleasure to have them, in all their incarnations, as a part of my life. ~JenEllen
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: katlaughing Date: 12 Jul 01 - 05:21 PM Here is another thread you might find interesting, Phil. As for katlaughing, search engines won't show up anything for her, as I only use that name on the Mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Peter T. Date: 12 Jul 01 - 06:15 PM Just to add my two cents, it is an odd format, but incredibly fulfilling when it works. We have sort of developed rules, which are really about manners -- giving other people's characters space, not making somebody else's character do something they wouldn't approve of, doing your best to weave new characters in to your section, and so on. It is an odd set of rules, but any writer would recognise them immediately. What is odd is that you haven't got control over all the characters, so it is a very severe version of the way in which a writer's characters will suddenly surprise their author.
People pull stuff out of other people in these stories. The Steamboat was perhaps the most amazing along those lines (tip of the hat to Catspaw). One real difficulty is finding a story line that gets a lot of people involved, and contributing. Also, there have been ones where style is really important -- is the story in a style that everyone knows well enough to be able to parody (detective style, Bond style, Orient Express).
Another difficulty is that once you get started you have to really commit to it. Some of us really enjoy it, and begin to take it over; which is a mixture of enjoying it, some overbearingness, but also filling in the empty spaces. There aren't many people here who want to roll along with one of these stories for a long time. Also it depends on timing -- I started an "Incredible Journey" thread recently which started off well, but has died (I may bring it back) just because everyone got busy, involved with Catspaw's recovery, etc. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: mousethief Date: 12 Jul 01 - 06:23 PM It does to writing what MTV did to video--pares it down to essentials I'd say MTV is about as inessential as any medium could possibly be. Let music be music, is my cry. To take it another way, there's a lot of fluff in MTV videos. Just as there's a lot of fluff in forum posting. Alex |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Phil Dirt Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:29 PM It is commonly held that MTV is responsible for the short close-up, cropped and tightly edited impressionis filming that was so popular for about a decade of comercial filming. It took the view to film that seeing the whole was non-essential, that the part could convey the whole, even tease the completed image from the viewer' mind. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Amos Date: 13 Jul 01 - 12:10 AM After several days poring over the mustiest tomes in the Smithsonian, I finally stumbled across a small wormhole in the far back corner of Stack L-149, and by keeping my fingers very close together was able to reach through and select a dusty volume from the other side of the time warp, bring it back through to our continuum in one piece, and escape with nothing worse than having a hangnail sheared off as the wormhole closed suddenly as a result of my selecting its eigenstate indiscriminately. Anyway, the following excerpt from the otherwise useless tome may be of interest. It appears to be from a successful Ph D. thesis: "Anthropological analysis differs, depending on the school, but there is an invariable consensus that the We propose to assert here that this was due to a unique convergence of We further trace the nature of these vectors through their evolution while analyzing and We will analyze the effects of these vectors and bring new information to bear, offering definitive insight Paradigm Thunderblouse, PhD., D. Lit, D.J., writing in "The Anomalous use of Multi-Symbolic Overlays in |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 13 Jul 01 - 12:12 AM Phil. I would disagree with your statement about the story forum not being available twenty years back. You might go back 40 years and not see that sort of thing. The co-operative story is something which has been around since electronic bbs's were around, and also since the "newsgroups" have been available. I've been on the internet since the early 70's. The arpanet has been around since the 60s, If I remember rightly. It sounds like you're specifically after "The Never-Ending Story" saga. It's not the same as for regular message Forums. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Peter T. Date: 13 Jul 01 - 02:16 PM WALTER MONDALE?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DANIELLE STEEL???? HILARY CLINTON!????!!!!! failed Phd.! yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Amos Date: 13 Jul 01 - 02:25 PM Now, Peter!! LOL!!!!!!!! You are cracking me up here!!! I am sorry -- obviously the future scribe passed on the merits of having reconstructed the distant past (from his/her time) as well as academic discipline could expectunder the circumstances, with sketchy information. You have to ask how, for example, the actual participants in ancient Mayan rituals would respond if they could be told how their ruins were "interpreted" by another race hundreds of years later! However, since I was responsible for lifting that thesis through the wormhole, I can only apologize for not having found a better one on an alternate time line!! Wormholes are awfully hard to steer. I am sure you can defend your and Jen Ellen's correct charcterization manfully without much threat from the distant future -- and maybe this will prompt you to write more, in order to leave a better evidence chain for this future candidate to use in learning better what really happened during the Jen Ellen years!!! Love, A |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: GUEST,Phil Dirt Date: 13 Jul 01 - 11:01 PM ...and the cyber legend of Amos just keeps on growing--nice one sir! I 'spect my granchilds will be studying you in cyber lit some day----I just discovered The Song Challenges! As they say in that hip slang "you are the man." |
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Subject: RE: Help: Forum Posting--The New Lit? From: Amos Date: 13 Jul 01 - 11:49 PM Too kind, Sir Dirt, and I hope you enjoy the hell out of 'em. They were all a great deal of fun to do. A |
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