Bowdlerized lyrics

Subject: Bowlderized lyrics
From: John Kidder
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 06:50 PM

I wonder how folks feel about the (generally minor) amendment of older lyrics to meet more modern sensitivities? I think, e.g., of Tommy Makem changing "ass over tit" to "ass over head" in Eric Bogle's "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda", and of pretty much everyone changing the line in "A Border Affair" from "she was Mex and I was white, like as not it's better so" to a repeat of "wanted for a gambling fight, etc.". We all know of many more examples.

I am sure this has been discussed before - if there is an existing thread, someone please point me to it.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: running.hare
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 07:22 PM

I personaly feel that as "arse over tit" is still used in general conversation, & thoughs words where chosen for a reason they should be left alone. it's not as if it's ofesive in any major way.

IMHO if a song in it's original form is not suttible for the intended audiance, you should chouse a more apropriate song.

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 07:30 PM

Click here for one discussion about a problematic lyric

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: John Kidder
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 07:51 PM

Murray:

Thanks for the link. Amazing how a simple question starts a discussion dealing with, among others, bigotry, whalers, and etymology.

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 09:18 PM

Bowdlerized. That's the eminent Dr. Bowdler's one claim to immortality, so I'm sure he would have liked it spelled right.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: raredance
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 09:44 PM

The "Eric Bogle Songbook" that I have with 40 songs has the phrase "arse over head". So if that's his song book, where's the bowdlerization?

rich r

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: ddw
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 12:18 AM

The version that I have (can't remember which book) and the one in the DT both have the "arse (or ass) over head" words.

And those that were left, well we tried to survive In that mad world of blood, death and fire. And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive Though around me the corpses piled higher. Then a big Turkish shell knocked me ass over head And when I awoke in me hospital bed And saw what it had done, well I wished I was dead. Never knew there were worse things than dying.

And if you look at the rhyme scheme, I don't see how "arse over tit" would fit at all....

david

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: ddw
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 12:24 AM

Ratz — did a C&P and forgot it doesn't copy the HTML.

The lyrics should be:

And those that were left, well we tried to survive
In that mad world of blood, death and fire.
And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive
Though around me the corpses piled higher.
Then a big Turkish shell knocked me ass over head
And when I awoke in me hospital bed
And saw what it had done, well I wished I was dead.
Never knew there were worse things than dying.

david

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 02:37 AM

Head doesn't rhyme with bed or dead, so whoever put tit in is one.

It's bad enough when people bowdlerise, but when they do the reverse it's even worse!! One instance - Geordie Wilson's pig (Byker Hill) when hit with the shovel dances a jig, not 'shat a brick' as I've heard some sing.....

Mind you, my computer here is a great bowdleriser. It printed out a slightly dubious song for me and missed out the rudest verse!!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 02:38 AM

Bugger. I int got me brain in yet.

Head DOES rhyme, Tit DOESN'T....

(must put glasses on in mornings......)

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 05:18 AM

Don't worry, Liz. It happens to the best of us. I once thought Napoleon was banished to Arras. My history teacher always said I couldn't tell my Arras from my Elba.
RtS (Ducking and running for cover)

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 07:59 AM

Roger, you've gone too far--on second thoughts, the farther you go the better for the rest of us!

There was a fir bit of political-correcting went on in the fifties and sixties. How about the Greenland Whale Fisheries?

The losing of that fine big whale
It grieved our captain sore,
But, oh, the losing of those five brave boys,
It grieved him ten times more

became

The losing of those five brave boys,
It grieved ... etc.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 08:51 AM

I don't think there is Political corectness issue here. I think Tommy may just have made the change from tit to head to make it more understandable and because the mental image is MUCH clearer. As a Canadian this is my first encounter with "Arse over tit". "Arse over head" is a much better lyric. And it isn't any less profane. Once you've said "arse", saying "tit" is a very minor sin. BTW I haven't used the word "tit" this much in all of my 42 years up to now!

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 11:37 AM

I'm more used to hearing "arse over tip". Or is trhat just the polite company I keep?

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 11:39 AM

Tip is politer, but Tit doesn't rhyme with the rest of the song so why bother unless it's for shock value.

It's got to be a whole heap better than base over apex....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 12:15 PM

Sorry Lizabee but you got it the wrong way around, it's not "you should chouse a more apropriate song." what you need is a better class of audience ;) JohnB

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 12:34 PM

The related phrase I'm familiar with is "ass over teakettle".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: ddw
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 06:30 PM

Not relevant to the original post, but the "ass over" phrase I grew up with was "ass over appetite".

david

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: AliUK
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 07:07 PM

I think this confusion with this particular phrase from The Band Played Waltzing Mathilda actually began with the Dubliners, who for some unknown reason changed it to "arse over tit". Their version was then taken up by Makem, the Pogues et. al.

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 07:11 PM

Going back in time, Purcell wrote a piece called "Dido and Aeneas", which my music teacher renamed "Dildo and any arse" Tattie B

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Nancy King
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 09:41 PM

Sounds like you guys had a better class of teachers, as it were, than I did...

Nancy

Subject: RE: BS: Bowlderized lyrics
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 09:43 PM

HEy, ours called it Dildo and a knee arse. Never made sense to me then.... I know better now! I studied it for 2 years and still didn't know that Dido was the girl.....

LTS