guitar picks

Subject: guitar picks
From: 53
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 07:50 PM

my favorite pick is the jim dunlop series with the grips, i've been playing with them so long that other picks feel to slippery and i seem to lose my grip, since i mostly play rythm guitar and every once in a while i'll strike it on a godd ole lead ride. bob.

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Justa Picker
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 07:55 PM

On the main forum page, type in the word "picks" in the FILTER BOX, and set the age for 2 years. You'll see that this topic has been covered a few times over here in the past.

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: DonMeixner
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 08:57 PM

I like to use the Tortex picks that come to a point. The heaviest white ones. They are very fast on the strings and they tend not to move around much. I use the heaviest National thumbs I can find. I use Jim Dunlop .025 steel fingers for Autoharp and Banjo. I use the thumb and finger picks even for frailing. Strictly a question of volume. I turn the middle pick upside down a la Pete Seegars book and frail with a thumb pick as well.

Don

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: 53
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 10:00 PM

Justa Picker,

Why get in a huff with anyone who wants to talk about picks now? And a fresh conversation about picks or other music subjects is welcome to many of the Mudcatters. Right, guys and ladies?

At that time Bob and I didn't have a computer and NOW he has lots of time on his hands and is enjoying some of the friendships he seems to be making here.

Go easy.

Glenda

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Gary T
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 11:40 PM

Glenda, Justa Picker wasn't necessarily chastising bob for bringing up the subject, perhaps just pointing out that some archived information is available.

And yes, fresh conversation on such topics is generally welcome. Combining that with what's in the previous discussions can give quite thorough coverage.

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: fiddlegal
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 11:44 PM

I think J.P. was trying to help. People get tired of the upteenth discussion on a subject and tend to not respond. So, in the event of that happening, you friend can access the previous information. When you bite the hand, the hand pulls back, so take your own advice.

Just for the record, I'm partial to tortoise shell, although a Clayton Gold, filed and beveled just right, can almost imitate the same sound. Depends on what sound you're trying to achieve.

fg

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: BlueJay
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 05:18 AM

Do we really want to suggest to everyone who asks a question that they should have done better research? Justa Picker's post, while informative, seems condescending to me.

I've been visiting the Mudcat for a couple of years now, and I'm still learning about the features of the Mudcat, aand computers in general. I am not able to devote much time to learning all this stuff.

Plus, I've had failed searches because I didn't word my search exactly right. Without exception, you Mudcatters have always steered me right, and I thank you all. But I don't think it is wrong to start a thread that may have been answered somewhere in the past.

It is possible that 53 needed to reach out and communicate with someone. I'm afraid he's not left with a good impression from this thread. BTW,I like heavy picks. Thanks, BlueJay

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 08:16 AM

Ah, but 2 years ago nobody would have been able to tell you all about "Control picks". I use "DAVA" control picks, quite light, but with a flexi bit in the middle. Hold it tight to the point and it's real stiff, move backwards and it goes to almost being able to brush the strings lightly. I used to use "Pick boy" 050's but now I stick to the Dava. In Holland they're 1 guilder (less than 30p) In the UK 50-60p don't know about the states. I play mostly in sessions (I'm crap anyway) but they seem to suit me, and allow me to get to a good speed.They're also les difficult to grip having a rough surface and with suffering from Carpel tunnel syndrome, as the sessions wears on my fingers get number and number. I have to use "gorilla snot" to grip the picks as I drop them easily-rather they fly out of my fingers and go everywhere.
Re-visiting an old thread or topic might just bring out new perspectives or technology.(On this thread Control picks and Gorilla snot !

cheers
Eric

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: GUEST,Steven G.
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 09:08 AM

I like the Jim Dunlop picks too, they have a great grip, and I able to flat pick on my guitar with no problems.

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: 53
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 10:12 AM

FYI Bob and I have now read the thread from 1998.

Lots of interesting stuff there but this is a good thread too. Thanks for your input, Friends.

BTW, I started with using a .60 mm most of the time sometimes a .46 but now prefer the Dunlop .88 or 1.0.

I love playing rhythm, but like to throw a few runs in too.

Glenda

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Justa Picker
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 11:00 AM

It wasn't meant to be condescending. It was meant to be informative.

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: 53
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 01:34 PM

peace, bob

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Cappuccino
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 06:06 PM

Is it really bad to play mandolin with a soft pick? Me and a few of my mates use the very softest picks we can find for speed, and are quite happy doing so, but the 'real' mandy players look down their noses at us and say that we should use the very hardest ones. How come?

- Ian B

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: RocketMan
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 06:40 PM

Ian, I don't play mandolin often, but a stiffer pick gives me more control and doesn't bend as much. I would think that a pick that flexes too much would limit your speed and control.

BTW for flatpicking guitar, I like a Tortex .88 or 1.0 mm. I use the point of my knife to rough up the grip surface.

RMan

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 07:03 PM

With a flexible pick all you get is 'pick noise'! Particularly when miking up the instrument!

If you learn to use a hard pick properly, you'll never go back to the floppy ones!!

Only my opinion, but I think people who use floppy picks can't be bothered with good technique!! (Runs away ducking miscellaneous, very heavy and painful missiles, and thinks he's lucky to escape...)

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: marty D
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 11:06 PM

I'm in the process of taking up mandolin and it never occurred to me that I might want to use a different pick than I do on guitar. Use a Dunlop .88 on the Martin, but maybe I'll try a harder one for the mandolin.

Thanks for the reminder Justa. I DO want to know what the current people think, but I'd be missing out if I didn't see what's gone before. Thanks also for the past help in guitar threads.

marty

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 03:23 AM

Yellow Jim Dunlop 73 gauge Tortez SHARPS.

Seamus

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Cappuccino
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 03:29 AM

Yes Bernard, that's my mandolin arcing through the air towards you now... !

I've never been bothered with pick noise on any instrument, miked up or DI'd, except, most bizarrely, my electric guitar. But I'll give the harder picks another try.

Just to add another sideline to this thread, has anyone ever seriously fingerpicked a mandolin? I tried it the other day, just for fun, and I was astonished how much faster I could go.

But now I'll have to sew my fingertips back on...

- IanB

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: GUEST,Guest MC Fat
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 05:09 AM

Robin Garside used to have some real tortoise shell guitar picks thet were quite expensive but appartantly were the dog's(or the tortoise's) bollocks but I think they've been banned now !!

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 06:17 AM

I used to subscribe to the FLATPIK-L list some years ago and there used to be regular discussions on this subject.

The consensus among the flatpickers (and there were some heavy names there) was that tortoiseshell picks were the best.

Unfortunately, many of these dudes were unable to appreciate the ecological issues involved. You don't even want to know how commercial tortoiseshell is produced, believe me. (It comes from turtles, not tortoises btw).

Using tortoiseshell in a pick is analogous to using elephant ivory in a guitar saddle and nut. Yes, it is a superior material, but the moral issues far aoutweigh any slight acoustic or aesthetic gains.

Murray

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: GUEST,Mc Fat
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 06:37 AM

I know that the moral issue is important. We don't want elephants shot for ivory but if an elephant dies is it acceptable to use the tusks then ? Similary as I understand it tortoises/turtles shells regrow when they are damaged could these picks still be produced by a humane method ???

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: LR Mole
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 10:32 AM

I use Fender Thins for quiet, conversational stuff (better for teaching with the guitar on because you can sort of be singing before they know it, without the "I'm-doing-something-groovy-and/or-IMPORTANT" hurdle to get over.I'm shy about that. Fender medium has always been my performing pick. Something about the shape seeming less slippery--superstition, probably.Other than that I play with flash-frozen sheep ears, but not near the Microwave.

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Giac
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:38 AM

I use a thumb pick and have tried every sort available over the years. The biggest problem was that when I found one small enough so it didn't fall off, then it eventually would break where the flat part starts to curve.

But about three years ago I happened upon some that hold their shape and don't break. They are expensive but worth the $3 a pop, to me anyhow. I have no clue as to the brand name, but they are easily recognizable. The logo on the off-white pick is a black bridge (Golden Gate Bridge, perhaps) within a black rectangle. Once I realized it was a "good 'ern" I got three more which ride around in the case as I'm still using the original one.

Giac

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:46 AM

Giac. When I discovered the Golden Gates, I bought TWENTY TWO of 'em. Now I gotta live long enough to use up the supply.....and they don't break very often!

Rick

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Uncle Steve
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 12:59 PM

Funny how one gets so attached to something like this, but I am absolutely in LOVE with the old Mel Bay GREEN picks... getting harder and harder to find, since they stopped making them, but whenever I travel, I scour little music shops and buy up whatever I can find.
I play in a lot of amplified bar settings, and these suckers are perfect (even if they might lack some suble sophistication). Great attack, very durable while flexible, and if you have to really "dig in" you just turn the thing around and play with the textured edge of the wide end. There is an interesting article about the history of the pick on the Mel Bay website... which, if memory serves me correctly, is www.melbay.com.

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 01:03 PM

I've used the same 39-cent Jim Dunlop pic for 4 years now. I have others exactly like it, but they just don't sound the same.

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: 53
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 01:04 PM

you know, guitar picks are great to collect i have all kinds, i even have some old mosrite venture picks that i bought in 1966 and i've kept them thru the years as momentos of when i was a young budding guitarist. bob

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 01:08 PM

Quite right Bernard, unless you play an electro acoustic which doesn't need miking, but also as an acoustic player if you use a flexible pick you can get a nice percussive sounding strum which has it,s uses. By holding a flexible pick near the tip, you can get rid of the pick noise, it's surely a matter of technique, taste or effect that you want to get. Please don't run off ducking, there is no need to.
Vikings have long memories !!!

cheers

Eric

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 01:44 PM

For those who are interested there is a book about picks. My brother gave it to me last Christmas. I don't remember the name but I'll try to look it up when I get home.

Now that I'm starting to play some leads on the mandolin I've switched to heavier picks. I've gone from thins to heavys or at least mediums{One companys medium is another ones heavy}. I'm getting a better tone and more volume with the heavier picks. It's going to take me awhile to work up to playing fast rhythms without the lights.

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: GUEST,Genie
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 02:09 PM

A couple of years ago, a blues man (Michael "Hawkeye" Herman") turned me on to Herco picks. They are nylon and the pick part is shaped like a flat pick, but they hook onto your thumb.
When you use one of these, you can flatpick with less chance of losing the pick in the middle of a lick, and you can alternate thumbpicking and flatpicking within a song.
I absolutely love the Herco picks (about $1.50 to $2.00 each), though I wish they had a heavier duty one than their current heaviest one.
I don't play blues much, but they work as well for bluegrass picking, ballad playing, and almost any picking style I do.

Genie

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 02:54 PM

I live in an area that is littered with road killed American snapping turtles every spring. I have long thought of using the shells in jewelry of one kind or another but maybe guitar picks are a good choice. I fail to see the eco-damage caused by recyling a dead turtle shell into something other than swamp compost. Snappers are hardly endangered in Central New York and once its dead he don't need that shell no more. A nice guitar pick might be just the use. Don Meixner, Enviro Bandito

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: LoopySanchez
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 02:55 PM

I also like Dunlop tortex.88's, the green ones. I go with full sized for rhythm chord playing, and with their jazz picks (sharp pointed and about 2/3 the size) for stuff more intense alternate picking leads.) To prevent slippage, I'll put the sander attachment on my Dremel (hand-held rotary tool w/ about 50 attachments) and give it a quick few touches to either side of the pick. That roughs it up and keeps it from flying...

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 06:08 PM

The problem with tortoiseshell is the same as the problem with ivory. Like it or not, by using it you are sanctioning the commercial use of the product, and thereby sanctioning the illegal and ruthless killing of an endangered species in order to satisfy human vanity.

Snappers may not be an endangered species, but the hawksbill is, and they are the turtles who are tortured and killed for the commercial tortoiseshell trade. I have very few regrets in my life, but one thing I do bitterly regret was acquiescing to a request by a Sotheby's auctioneer many years ago to turn a custom gavel for him out of an antique ivory billiard ball. Had I been as aware then as I am now I would have told him to stick it where the sun don't shine.

Unfortunately many craftsmen seem to have a blind spot here, and think that the use of elephant ivory is OK as long as the animal was killed long ago. Well, bollocks to that, says I.

Incidentally, I am not advocating the vandalization of old guitars or furniture by removing their ivory or tortoiseshell. I am simply saying that nowadays any use of ivory or tortoiseshell in new products from whatever source, whether the animal died naturally, of old age or whatever, is seriously irreponsible.

But then again, I suppose it's all down to what presses your buttons. Some folk get all upset about racial profiling, me, I get seriously angry about the torture of dumb animals. Whatever turns you off.

Murray

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 01:39 AM

Wesley S 01-Oct-01 - 01:44 PM
The book you refer to is probably:

Picks!
by Will Hoover
subtitled: "The Colorful Saga of Vintage Celluloid Guitar Plectrums"
Miller Freeman Books
600 Harrison Street
San Francisco, CA 94017
ISBN 0-87930-377-8
6.5 x 6.5 inches, 107 pages
$12.95 (US) in 1995 when I got mine.

General:

I play (euphemism) manodolin, and have a running battle with a friend who keeps insisting that I need to "play louder." To placate him, I have recently been moving (gradually) to stiffer picks, and have recently been trying the "little bitty" mando picks, so that I can "whang it" a little more. This friend recently "gifted" me with a set of new "Bill Monroe Special Gibson GBMS" strings, that he assures me "my old buddy, who could play really load always used these." I'm pretty sure that they are heavy enough to break my favorite A style, and they would certainly mess up the bridge compensation, since it's designed for lighter weight strings - but maybe I could put them on my old F just to be a good sport about it.

This all goes a little against my best judgment, since it amounts to trying to force the instrument to do something it's not meant to do. It might be better to just use a mike.

The point here is that I am using a particular pick style to achieve a particular effect - satisfying my buddy. When I play for myself, I go back to a lighter and more flexible pick, and play pretty music.

From the standpoint of musical physics, all that really matters is that:
the pick is something that you can hold and manipulate well,
that it has an appropriate edge shape and tip radius,
that is is durable enough to maintain its shape (especially that tip radius),
and that it "moves" right on the string.

Since individual hands vary almost as much as individual fingerprints, the only way to really find what you can hold and manipulate, and what feels comfortable to you, is to try a bunch of them. IF you can figure out what your "style" of playing is, and can find a "hero" that plays similarly, then the hero's opinion may be worth considering. General comments about the "best" pick, from people who's style may be quite different than yours, are not likely to be helpful (to you).

The sound produced by the string depends on how far it is pulled before it is released, modified somewhat by the little "slidey noises" that you get if the string's initial motion is affected by the pick during the release. That's where the proper pick tip radius comes into play. If you hold the pick truly flat to the string, the radius has little effect. If, like most, you turn the pick slightly so that the string slides along the edge of the pick during the release, then the (initial at least) tone is somewhat affected by how "pointy" the prick is. You can get some idea of how important the "tip" is to you by playing (briefly) with the larger radius on the "back end" of a typical pick and seeing whether your tone changes.

Some players like a pick that "grabs" the string a little. Such picks are usually made from a fairly soft material, and usually have a fairly sharp edge. (The "edge radius" is either quite small, or the edge is flat.) Such picks will wear down, and need to be either re-sharpended or discarded and replaced. If you have become dissatisfied with the pick you are using, it might be well to try a new one of the same kind before going to something drastically different. Yours may be just worn out.

Since any pick will wear to some extent, one of the dangers of falling in love with an "exotic" pick is that you may feel compelled to use it after it really needs replacement (or at least maintenance). Most of the "exotic" materials are somewhat harder that the typical vinyl/celluloid, and may be a little "slicker" along the edges; but you can get the same effect with a new pick in almost any material.

Shape, finish, and hardness are the only things that should really matter "at the string." The grip shape is, of course, important and very individual at the other end.

my tupence worth.

John

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: DonMeixner
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 06:18 PM

Murray we could certainly have a spirited debate about this. I agree whole heartedly about ivory and Hawksbill turtles and Alligators and Rhinos and Bear Claws.... We certainly can embarass ourself wiyth our own arrogance and stupidity.

I have some beautifull Honduras Mahogany that was cut 50+ years ago. When I find the right project it will go there. Rain forest depletion is a concern of mine as it should be everyones. Here is an interesting fact about Rainforest depletion. Once the wealthy countries became eco-ethical and started to stop buying things made of rainforest lumber. The lumber business became un viable because there was no market for those deep forest trees. So now those giant trees had no value to the wood cutters and with no value they became trash. The land in the forest became valuable as farm land so rather than husband the trees as a renewable resource those same woodcutters are now burning the trees to get them out of the way for cattle and corn. And since we became green rain forest depletion has stepped up far greater than it was when Brazil supplied Martin with Rosewood for guitars.

This is alot like screwing with the bio-diversity in an area by bringing in non-native species like poison cane toads. Only in this case the cane toad is our northern eco-sense and ethics not fully understanding the ethics and economical need of some south Americans.

Regarding Snapping Turtle guitar picks. It was just an idea, not an assault on the Sea Turtle population. The plan to subsitute plantation grown Sapile or Apatong for wild grown Mahogany and Teak is hardly different than substituting one clearly endangered and relatively rare species with another that is very common and quite dangerous. The difference is I wasn't suggesting hunting them down.

I have a bigger hot button about first world countries thinking we know whats best for third world countries and forcing our economic might into areas we wouldn't go on a bet and haven't a cultural clue about their lives.

Don

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 01 - 12:35 PM

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: 53
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 08:31 PM

we ar just talking about guitar picks. bob

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 10:36 PM

Bob, some picks get made from tortoiseshell. Some people get concerned about how the tortoiseshell makes the journey from turtle to guitar pick. It is a perfectly valid subject for discussion.

Murray

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Clifton53
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 11:04 PM

Has anyone tried a Cymbolic flat-pick, which is made of cymbal brass? Caught my interest, but at $5 U.S. a pop I'd like to try one first. How about the F-1? Also made of metal with a flap that rests on your index finger and stays put pretty well. I've tried the F-1's and they are pretty cool, something different.

Clifton

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 11:12 PM

Bob,

Lots of living things on this planet go extinct daily. Passenger Pidgeon because we were just talking about feathers and food for instance. There is a lot more to saving rain forests and turtles than just minimalizing their importance. Murray is correct about Hawksbill Turtles.

Some years back, I think in New Jersey, deer hunting was placed on moritorium because some folks thought hunting the deer was inhumane. More deer starved in the snow during that moritorium than had ever been taken in the hunting season. They had forgoten that the deer had no natural enemies any more to balance their numbers to what the land could sustain.

Its not as simple as I would like it to be to keep the ecological balance. And you are right that guitar picks alone won't kill off the Hawksbill turtles but guitar picks and everything else made from shell could.

Murray and I differ in philosophy but certainly not what we hope the outcome will be.

Don

Subject: RE: guitar picks
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 03:51 PM

Brian may of Queen uses a 6 pence (2.5 new pence piece) about the size of a dime. now thats heavy!