Req/Add: turmut (?) hoer... (turnip-hoer)

Subject: turmut (?) hoer...
From: GUEST,shaina
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 09:05 PM

hi folks its me again! i'm loving this thread thing "turmut" (i'm guessing on the spelling) is somerset dialect for turnip any body who knows the turmut hoer song? the chorus begins well, some delight in haymaking and a few be fond of mowing but of all the jobs that i like best be aye the turmut hoeing (?) danke schoen...

Subject: Lyr Add: THE TURMUT HOE-ER
From: cetmst
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 07:32 AM

Printed versions in Lucy Broadwood and J. A. Fuller-Maitland, English Country Songs, Folksongs of Britain and Ireland, ed. Peter Kennedy, English Country Song Book, ed. Roy Palmer, Early English Lute Songs and Folk Songs, John Runge Collection, John Symonds Udal, Dorsetshire Folk-Lore and in the Cecil Sharp Manuscripts. Recorded by Wallace House, English Folk Songs, Folkways FP823; Library of Folk and Primitive Music edited by Peter Kennedy and Alan Lomax, Columbia LP AKL4943; John Runge on both Concert of English Folk Song, Riverside RLP 12-84 and Traditional English Folk Songs, Stinson SLP 88.

"Twas on a jolly summer's morn, the twenty-first of May,
Giles Scroggins took his turmut hoe with which he trudged away;
For some delights in hay-makin' and some they fancies mow-in',
But of all the jobs that I likes best give I the turmut hoe-in'

Cho: For the fly, the fly, the fly be on the turmut
And it be all me eye for I to try to keep fly off the turmut.

Now the first place as I went to work it were for farmer Tower,
He vowed and sweared and then declared I were a first-rate hoe-er.

The second place as I went to work I took it by the job
But if I'd 'a knowed a second afore I'd sooner be in quod.

As I was workin' at yonder farm they sent for I a-mow-in,
I sent word back I'd sooner have the sack than lose my turmut hoe-in'.

Now all you jolly farmin' lads as bides at home so warm
I now concludes my ditty with wishing you no harm.

HTML line breaks added --JoeClone, 29-Nov-01.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE TURNIP-HOER
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 07:57 AM

* Quod = Jail.

English County Songs was published in 1893.  Miss Broadwood went on to comment, "This is a favourite song among soldiers, and is popular in many counties."

THE TURNIP-HOER

(Traditional; from Fred Jordan of Diddlebury, Wenlock, Shropshire, 1952)

Now the first job that I work-ed at
For Maister Farmer Varr
He come to I one day and he said
A first-class turnip-hoer thee 't are

For the flies, the flies
The flies got on the turnips
It's all me eye and no use to try
To keep 'em off them turnips.

The second place that I went to
I took 'em by the job
And if only an elder son I 'ad
Far better I to 'ave went to quod

For the flies, &c.

But there's some delights in harvesting
And some bein' fond o' mowin'
But of all the jobs that be on a farm
Give I the turnip-hoeing.

For the flies, &c.

From Folk Songs of Britain and Ireland (Peter Kennedy, 1975).  Mr. Kennedy, who recorded Fred Jordan for the BBC, noted:

"Fred Jordan learned this song from a gamekeeper who came from Buckinghamshire in 1940.  The version in English County Songs was sent to Lucy Broadwood by a man living in Oxfordshire, but he too came from Buckinghamshire.  Yet the song has attached itself to Wiltshire and was adopted as the regimental march of the Wiltshire Regiment (originally the 62nd and 99th Foot) now amalgamated with the Berkshire Regiment in the Duke of Edinburgh's Royal Regiment.
Lucy Broadwood remarked in 1893 that the song was a favourite with soldiers and popular in many counties.  Fred Perrier, our Wiltshire singer [from whom Kennedy had recorded another version, in 1950], in fact learned the song from the soldiers on Salisbury Plain when they first came to train in the fields where he was working in the 1890s."

I don't know of any traditional Somerset connection, but I seem to remember seeing the song on somebody's website put into an exaggerated "Mummerset" dialect.  Perhaps the Wurzels recorded it at some point!

I've made midis of both tunes from the notation in each book.  Until they go to the  Mudcat Midi Pages,  they can be heard via the  South Riding Folk Network  site:

Turmut-Hoeing
The Turnip Hoer

Subject: Lyr Add: TURNIT HOEING
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 08:48 AM

I was wrong about the Somerset connection; thanks to "Cetmst" for reminding me about the set in Roy Palmer's book, which is probably closest to what Shaina is looking for.

TURNIT HOEING

(Traditional; from Charles Parsons, Knole Farm, Long Sutton, Somerset, 1903. Noted by Cecil Sharp)

Oh! I be a turnit hoer, from Zummerzetshire I came.
My parents is hard working volks, Giles Webster be my name.
'Twas on a zummer's mornin', e'en at the break of day,
When I took my hoe and off did go zum fifty miles away.

And zum delights in hay makin' and a vew be vond of mowin',
But of all the jobs that I like best, gi'e ae the turnit hoeing.
For the vlies, the vlies, the vlies be on the turnit,
And 'tis all no use for ae to try to keep them off the turnits.

O I be a tidy sort of chap and soon got I a place.
I went to work like any Turk and I took it by the piece;
And so I hoed on cheerfully and good Varmer Glower,
Who vowed and swore and said I wore a ripping turnit hoer.

And zum delights, &c.

In winter I drives oxen about the vields a-ploughin',
To keep the vurrow straight and clear all ready for turnit zowin'.
And when the vrost bars up the wheels, out on the land we're goin',
For without manure, 'tis zertain zure, no turnits won't be growin'.

And zum delights, &c.

In on work about the varm yard until time brings me mowin',
For I like half of it none so well as I do my turnit hoein'.
And when the harvest now begins and the nut-brown ale a-vlowin',
So I merely bids them all goodbye and I'm off to turnit hoein'.

And zum delights, &c.

From Everyman's Book of English Country Songs (Roy Palmer, 1979).  Roy adds:

"I have done some hoeing, wrote A.G. Street in Farmer's Glory (1935), and it cured me of any desire to sing about it.  I know from my own experience that it is monotonous, back-breaking work, and would have been inclined to suspect that the song's enthusiasm was ironic, if it were not for the enthusiasm with which country people sing it.
The song is a relatively late production, but it was certainly in existence by 1881, when the tune was adopted as the official march of the 1st Battalion of the Wiltshire Regiment (though perhaps out of conservatism the former march The Lincolnshire Poacher, did not in fact give way to the upstart until 1932).  In the meantime the song had gained widespread popularity through a gramophone record issued in the 1920s by the country comedian Albert Richardson, who was perhaps better-known for There was an old man and he had a sow, complete with sound effects.
The Somersetshire version given here may seem impenetrable at first sight, but all (or nearly all) becomes clear if s is read for z and f for v."

Click here for midi:  Turnit-Hoeing

Subject: Lyr Add: THE TURMUT HOER'S SONG
From: masato sakurai
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 09:56 AM

"The Turmut Hoer's Song" (written "The Turmont Hoer's Song" on the contents list), sung by Fred Perrier and local villagers, with accordion accompaniment, recorded by Peter Kennedy in West Lavington, Wiltshire, November 1950, is on the CD Various Artists, World Library of Folk and Primitive Music -- V. 1: England (Rounder CD 1741). The notes and the lyrics are:

The "turmut" is the local name for a turnip and the "vly" refers to the black fly that attacks the plant if it is not kept well hoed. Fred Perrier, a farm laborer, learned this song 50 years ago from soldiers who had picked it up in the west. Since then, it has become the county song of Wiltshire.

THE TURMUT HOER'S SONG

I be a turmut hoer, from Wilshire I do come,
My parents they be working folks,
Geroge Watchstraw is my name,
'Twas on a summer's morning, all at the break of day,
I took my hoe and away did go,
Some fifteen miles away.

Chorus:
Then some delights in hay making,
And some delights in mowing,
But of all the jobs as I like best,
Give I the turmut hoeing.
For the vly, the vly,
The vly be on the turmuts,
It's all my eye for to try
To keep them off the turmuts.

Now I be a tidy sort of chap, I soon got I a place,
Like many Turk, I went to work,
And took it by the piece.
I hoed away quite gaily, for good old Farmer Flower,
Who vowed and sweared that I just were a tidy old turmut hoer. (Chorus)

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: turmut (?) hoer...
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 04:25 AM

Has anyone out there got the full lyrics to Albert Richardson's version of 'The Fly Be On the Turnip'? Den Giddens has recorded it on the CD 'A Little Bit of the Top' on Wildgoose Records, but I can't make the words out. When I interviewed him, he told me he found it on the reverse side of a six-inch record with 'the Old Sow' on the other side. The first two lines of the chorus go:
The Fly Be on the Turnip,
The Jumper's on the Hop ...
Definitely not the same as suggested by Malcolm Douglas above!
Apart from the piece in Musical Traditions, Albert's passing went unnoticed in any local newspaper. Anyone else know of his life and times in Burwash?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: turmut (?) hoer...
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 09:40 PM

I'm familiar with this song from the singing (charitably so called) of Wallace House, an English singer, on Folkways. His chorus is somewhat different from those above:

The vlies boozz, the vlies boozz,
The vlies be on the turmut
And it's a' me eye, I yus to try
To kyep 'em off the turmut!

I'll have to get the LP out to get the verses, which are generally similar to those above, but one could say an assortment from here and there in those versions.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: turmut (?) hoer...
From: Peace
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 09:47 PM

Den Giddens?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: turmut (?) hoer...
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 04:17 AM

Details on http://www.wildgoose.co.uk/html/album_details_4.html

Dennis Giddens is the eldest member of 'Travelling Folk' - a peripatetic folk club operating in West and Mid-Kent, and former organiser of Elsie's at Cowden Pound. Dave O's version sounds a bit like Fred Jordan's version which Den is well aware of, but it's the parody I'm looking for, alluded to by Malcolm Douglas.

Subject: RE: Req/Add: turmut (?) hoer... (turnip-hoer)
From: Tradsinger
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 01:43 PM

I wouldn't get hung up on any particular county for this song - it's general over southern England. I have collected a version with the words "..from Gloucestershire I came". I understand the Wiltshire Regiment had it as their regimental march. Bob Arnold from Oxfordshire had a version of it.

Gwilym

Subject: RE: Req/Add: turmut (?) hoer... (turnip-hoer)
From: a gud ole bwoy
Date: 17 Dec 04 - 04:57 AM

I seem to recall that Tom Forest sang it on The Archers.

Subject: RE: Req/Add: turmut (?) hoer... (turnip-hoer)
From: IanC
Date: 17 Dec 04 - 06:45 AM

Yer ... well Bob Arnold played Tom Forrest.

:-)

Subject: RE: Req/Add: turmut (?) hoer... (turnip-hoer)
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:54 AM

The Wallace House lyrics mentioned by Dave Oesterreich above are given below. Guernseyman House, who was a Columbia University professor and ought to have known enough to give sources in his notes, gives no source for his version, alas. But "English County Songs" is a great record, despite the scorn heaped on it by those who say he got his local accents all wrong.

The verses as he sings them seem pretty clearly to be clumps of two. I've always preferred to sing it in half-stanzas, meaning lots of wonderful repetitions of the chorus. I follow his idiosyncratic spelling, which does capture his actual sound.


TURMUT HOEING

From Oxfordshire, as sung by Wallace House, Folkways FP823, 1952.

'Twas on a jolly summer's morn, the twenty-virst of May,
Giles Scroggins took 'is turmut-'oe, with which 'e troodged away,
Vor zum deloights in 'aymakin' an' zum they vancies mowin',
But of all the trades as Oi loikes best, give Oi the turmut 'oein'.

Cho: The vlies booz, the vlies booz, the vlies be on the turmut,
         An' it's all me oi' amd Oi yus to troi to kyep 'em off the turmut.

Now the virst place as Oi went ta work, it were at Varmer Tower's,
'E vowed an' sweared an' then declared, Oi were a virst-rate 'oer,
Now the next place as Oi went ta work, Oi took it by the job,
But if Oi'd ha' knowed a little avore, I'd zooner been in quod.

Cho

Wen Oi was ower at yonder varm, they zent for Oi a-mowin',
But Oi zent word back Oi'd zooner 'ave the zack, than lose me turmut-'oein',
Now all you jolly varmin' lads as boides at 'ome zo warm,
Oi now concludes moi ditty 'ere, with wishin' you no 'arm.

Cho

Subject: RE: Req/Add: turmut (?) hoer... (turnip-hoer)
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:45 PM

And with the centenary not far away, it was also a song with which Capt. L.E.G.(Titus)Oates, whose other nickname was "the Farmer", is known to have entertained fellow members of Scott's ill-fated Antarctic expedition.
Useless fact no 347.
KYBTTS

Subject: RE: Req/Add: turmut (?) hoer... (turnip-hoer)
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:48 AM

Fat lot of good it did him, too :-(

Subject: RE: Req/Add: turmut (?) hoer... (turnip-hoer)
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:33 PM

When Oi was at the Oice Cliff, I zhurely were a-vreezin',
Oi hacked an' knacked an' stamped an' cramped, O, Oi were zhurely wheezin',
Oi applied to Varmer Titus Oates, to zet a vish a-vryin',
But the zled dogs ate me dinner plate, an' I vroze me vingers troiin'

Cho: The vlies buzz, the vlies buzz, the vlies be in me parka,
         An' it's all me oi an' I yus to try to kyep 'em from me parka.

Subject: RE: Req/Add: turmut (?) hoer... (turnip-hoer)
From: GUEST,Maz
Date: 22 Mar 09 - 07:59 AM

Nearly 20 years ago a young schoolgirl of around twelve sang this beautifully as we sat around a campfire in Exmouth. As I remember it, she said her teacher was an enthusiast of old songs, and that this version had originally been something of a protest song, regarding poor wages - something about being sacked by the farmer for wanting sixpence for his work; but the quatrain ended with - "and paid i but a penny". I remembered the chorus as finishing with "tis all that I can do that I can keep eye on the turnip". It's probably misremembered, but although I only heard it that once, I can still remember the tune.