Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T

Subject: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-Title
From: GUEST,Andreas Mattersteig, Hanover (Germany)
Date: 30 Dec 01 - 09:45 PM

Hello, I am a choral conductor in Germany. I found the music score of an irish Folksong (a very nice choir-arrangement). Unfortunately its lyrics are in french. I'm seeking the Irish Original. Do YOU know the irish title? The MELODY of this choir-arrangement you can see on my own homepage:

http://www.mattersteig.net/irland.htm

What's the title of this song? Perhaps you can help me? That would be great! With best regards & A Happy New Year! Andreas ------------------ Andreas Mattersteig, Hannover, Germany eMail: [e-mail] homepage http://www.mattersteig.net

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Dec 01 - 10:55 PM

It would help if you were to quote some of the French text, as the title tells us very little.  The images on your website are invisible to most browsers, as you have used .bmp format; you need to use .jpg (.jpeg) or gif.  I've looked at the tune, and it appears to be one that is widely known in England (though not, so far as I can remember, in Ireland); one form of it carries the Helston Furry Dance (Cornwall) and another the Winster Morris March (Derbyshire).

Can you perhaps give us more precise information, so that we will be better able to help you?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: masato sakurai
Date: 31 Dec 01 - 12:26 AM

The music is HERE. The lyrics are in the DT (CLICK HERE).
~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: Noreen
Date: 31 Dec 01 - 06:18 AM

I agree with Malcolm and masato- and I've never heard this as an Irish folksong.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: GUEST,Andreas Mattersteig
Date: 31 Dec 01 - 07:46 AM

Thanks a lot for your hint concerning the use of .bmp and .jpg . I'm not very professional in technical things.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: GUEST,Andreas Mattersteig
Date: 31 Dec 01 - 08:15 AM

First: Thanks to all of you! Now I have used .jpg - formats. It is an ENGLISH song? Ok, that's fine, too. The melodie "Helston furry" is the right one, yes! (some differences, but it's the same song) Lyrics: Are you sure, it is your Link "furry day carol"? I have problems to get the text under the scores, that doesn't fit very well. The translated french lyrics are:

1. Il faut fêter le gai printemps. Dansons sur nos plus joyeux chants. L'hiver emporte les frimas, Jetons après lui nos tracas!

2. Le gai concert de mille oiseaux succède au cri noir des corbeau. Voici venir le gai printemps, dansons sur nos plus joyeux chants.

If one has any other idea, please mail!

A happy new year at all!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 01 - 09:49 AM

It is possible for an English melody to be an Irish one also. One well-known example is Star of the County Down (Irish) which is also Kingsfold/Frozen Gardeners (English). Here also is an example of a Welsh/Irish duplication: the Welsh tune Ar hyd y nos appears in the O'Neill collection (Irish-American) as (if I recall correctly) Summer's Joys. So the compiler of the french version isn't necessarily wrong in identifying the melody as Irish.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: masato sakurai
Date: 31 Dec 01 - 10:01 AM

The music is in The Oxford Book of Carols (1928, 1964, no. 49; titled "Furry Day Carol"), with words: "Remember us poor Mayers all! ..."). The music is that one. And also in Roy Palmer, Everyman's Book of English Country Songs (1979, pp. 222-223; titled "Helston Furry Dance"), the music being the same but with another set of words: "Robin Hood and Little John, they both are gone to fair, ...."
~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 01 - 10:08 AM

Mr. Mattersteig sure came to the right place to ask his question. He had an accurate response within two hours of his post. Isn't the Mudcat great ?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 31 Dec 01 - 11:18 AM

Andreas - why not join the Mudcat and become a regular visitor? You could find a lot of marvellous songs from all over the English-speaking world to sing with your choir, and maybe the next time we have a German Mudgathering us Germans will not be outnumbered by our friends from Yorkshire (much as I like them :-)). Happy New Year to you all!

Subject: thanks a lot
From: GUEST,Andreas Mattersteig
Date: 31 Dec 01 - 11:07 PM

Yes, your help was really great, very kindly. Now I will try to find out that Oxford Book of Carols. Concert of my choir will be in may, they'll sing folkloristic music from all over the world. Concerning membership: USUALLY I'm looking for material esspecially for choirs, not just melodies and lyrics. And there is a wide spectrum of choral music, and most of my choirs do both sacred and profane music.

But: would membership cost anything?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 01 Jan 02 - 10:14 AM

Andreas; Guten Tag and membership is free. i have to say these guys are great Ive gotten a lot of help with research with various projects i work on not just musical ones and there is a wide range of knowledge here not just about folk or blues but about all types of music. have a great New Year and I hope we'll see you as a member soon. Kindest regards, Neil

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: alanKH
Date: 01 Jan 02 - 10:31 AM

Susanne (Skw)....not all the english are from yorkshire..(the owd enemy) some of us are handsome and witty..and of course from the other side of the pennines!!!!!

Alan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 01 Jan 02 - 11:52 AM

A additional information on an earlier, anonymous statement:Taithneamn na samhraidh, "The Joys of Summer", which (as the contributor noted) is much the same air as Ar hyd y nos, is O'Neill #230.

T.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 01 Jan 02 - 11:56 AM

Oops. lots of typos. Most importantly, the Irish name is Taithneamh na samhraidh, not "Taithneamn".

Alwais profred.

T.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 01 Jan 02 - 06:45 PM

Alan - I'm quite aware that England is bigger than Yorkshire :-), but at the Mudgathering in Muenster last May I believe all of those from Britain apart from Bron and the McMoos were from Yorkshire or around: Noreen, Patrish, Greg, Bill, Eric and Brian, completely outnumbering the Germans (Wolfgang, Andreas, Evi, Ranks & yrs truly, not forgetting Letty, who represented Europe).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Help! A German seeks an Irish Song-T
From: Arbuthnot
Date: 01 Jan 02 - 08:18 PM

As another bloody Yorkie, I might point out tha the French word for folk music is Le Folkmusic. I might also point out that the tune and song has a coherence with a ditty once used by the Kirkby Malzeard sword dance team (defunct circa 1911) for a Mummer's play