Tech: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!

Subject: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 01:32 PM

ANOTHER crash ! My PC pranged about two weeks ago. Dead as a nit. So, I got a new one with Windows XP, home version. It has IE 6.0.2600.0000 and I have headache after headache. It locks up frequently and crashes quite often. If you don't have to upgrade to 6.0, don't.

All I did this time was copy a link from a thread and attempted to connect to the site... my PC restarted and I got an error message that said a "serious" error had occured. I then went through the procedure of sending the error report to MS, which I had not done until this crash... when you get a "serious" in the error message, it seems like sending the report is the proper thing to do. I hope they get this IE fixed up soon.

Should I get/but Netscape ? Which version ?

pissedgnu

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 01:43 PM

I don't know what the general opinion over IE6 is but I have been using IE 6.0.2600.0000IS on Windows 98 for a few months without major problems - I'd go as far as to say fewer problems than with IE 5.5 as the main problem - an occasional failure to start and load a page properly has reduced. Personally, I quite like it.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: SeanM
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 01:44 PM

First, I'd very strongly advise getting the XP Plus 'upgrade' (read:MS really screwed up and there are too many bugs for a patch fix, so we're making it a 'plus' feature). Then I'd advise downloading EVERY bug fix on the MS site anyway. I've been told that the Plus fix misses several that are critical.

In a couple weeks when you've finished that (if you have DSL), search around until you find ANYTHING but IE 6.0. Contemplate getting trained hamsters on string if nothing else is available. A while back someone posted how to find the previous versions of IE - I think via ZDnet or somesuch.

Barring that, Netscape hasn't been stellar lately either. I used to be a Netscape Only booster, but they really killed the product back a few versions ago.

Given that many of the 'freeware' or alternate browsers don't display all features of the web, and given that IE has decided that starting with 6.0 they won't bother supporting Java, I'd personally advise finding the earlier version that you like and sticking with it.

M

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 01:46 PM

Try this Jon. Go to a site with a links page and add several links to your favourites. Then try to go to another another of the listed links. Mine will simple freeze every time. I have to close and restart IE to get anywhere. Of course, this is only a minor inconvenience compared to a complete system crash and restart.

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 01:48 PM

A couple of weeks ? It's that bad ?

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 01:56 PM

No Java Support would be a worry. I have had a search and came up with a FAQ at Inet.com that I think propably paints a more realistic picture - at least from the viewpoint of a company who writes JAVA applets. Here is the relevent portion:

Are your applets compatible with IE6?

Yes.

Are your applets compatible with Windows XP?

Yes.

Can IE6 and Windows XP run java?

Yes.

So what's all this stuff I hear in the press about Microsoft dropping java?

Misunderstood and exaggerated propaganda.

So what's the truth behind the propaganda and excitement?

Changes in distribution mechanisms with little effect on end-consumers.

So if I upgrade from IE5.x to IE6, will my java still work?

Yes. IE6 will simply take over your previous java interpreter from IE5.x. No fuss. All automatic. Applets will work afterwards just as they did before. And unlike the infamous Netscape 6 release, on IE6 you really will experience problem-free transition.

How about if I buy a new computer with XP on it - will java work?

As Microsoft itself is not bundling its java plug-in with XP, the presence of a pre-installed java interpreter on your new computer will be the choice of the computer manufacturer and supplier (OEM). You can be sure that Sun Microsystems will be lobbying every OEM very hard for them to include a pre-installed java interpreter. As Microsoft now has weakened holds over OEM's, distribution of pre-installed java interpreters is likely to remain high. In any case, java interpreters are universally available plug-ins (made by a number of different software companies, including Sun, Microsoft and Symantec). If a system does not have a pre-installed java interpreter, as soon as it hits a website with java, the user will be prompted to download and install a plug-in. Or users can download and install the plug-in at any time themselves from a large variety of sources, including the Microsoft java website. All known java plug-ins, including Microsoft's, are FREE.

I've heard that Microsoft is no longer licenced to do java - is this true?

Microsoft has no licence to develop an interpreter for so-called "java 2". However it may distribute its existing interpreter until about 2008. Many other sources also distribute the Microsoft java interpreter free of charge.

So Microsoft java is "old java" - what does this mean for web designers and applet buyers?

Microsoft java will remain at version 1.1.4. This is the version we support. Because Microsoft browsers completely dominated the browser market between 1999 and 2001, Microsoft's java interpreter became extremely widespread, contributing to an unusual degree of standardisation. By comparison, the small non-Microsoft segment of the java interpreter market is extraordinarily chaotic. The freezing of Microsoft java at version 1.1.4 means that this standardisation will persist. From the point-of-view of an applet buyer, this is very good news, because it means that the applet you buy should remain both compatible and up-to-date for a long time to come. It also means that applet developers will have time to get to know this standard very well, rather than constantly learning new standards - this in turn contributes towards higher quality of end products.

Jon

---

Line breaks added. --JoeClone

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 01:57 PM

Missed the linebreaks - sorry.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 02:22 PM

I run IE 6.0.2600.0000IS—sometimes natively and sometimes through MSN Explorer. I run it on Win98. My own experience has been similar to Jon's, no real problems. I keep all my Microsoft software up to date using their update feature so I have all the latest fixes installed. My computer runs a Pentium III processor at 600MHz, has only 128MB RAM and a 27GB hard disk that is about 40% full.

Problems can arise because of old and or slow processors, too little RAM and insufficient hard disk space for the swap file. Processor speed shouldn't be an issue as long as it's over 150MHz or so. Processor architecture could be a problem if it's old enough. For the most part, no one writes software anymore for Intel processors prior to Pentium II and RAM sizes less than 128MB.

I don't have any personal favorites among browsers, I run IE because some of what I do requires it and I don't see any compelling to waste hard disk space storing several products that do much the same thing. I tend to use Sun's Java plugin because I also use a lot of Sun software and I like to develop Java application that have no tie to Microsoft. When I write C++ applications, I generally use Microsoft tools.

I also run McAfee AntiVirus software and the Tiny Personal Firewall. My system tray generally displays anywhere from 11 to 15 icons for active processes.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: GUEST,Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 02:42 PM

I am a 'guest' because I am accessing Mudcat using a different browser...in this case "OffByOne"

I also use K-Meleon and Opera (maybe the best choice right now)

I am s*l*o*w*l*y getting away from Netscape, though I have 'most' of my bookmarks there....Netscape 4.75, 4.78, and even 4.79 are available, and NOT burdened by AOL changes and will do 98% of everything you want.

IE 5 &6 are TRULY rigged and desigend by Microsoft to force you/us into smaller & smaller boxes so that no one can imagine using anything else, and some of these 'alternative' browsers are being built on the theory that, without competition, Bill Gates will run a MUCH larger part of your life than you will like.

I have *3* browsers open right now!!, and I have not opened IE5 in months....

All you can do is try them...experiment....until you find the best solution..(I expect it will be Opera for me, but 'your mileage may differ')

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: GUEST,Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 02:47 PM

(I heartily approve of Tiny Personal Firewall.)...and I have to say, I have NOT tried Netscape 6 yet..(some say it is WAY too big, though it seems to be becoming more stable)..... I REALLY advise testing & trying the options, even if you finally decide to return to IE for your own personal reasons.....I just do not believe that IE is 'best', just because that's what you get with most computers.

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Amergin
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 03:00 PM

Gnu....go to microsoft.com and you can get bug fixes through the updates....

but I would agree with Bill...try something other than IE>...there are plenty of good "alternatives"...

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 03:46 PM

I got almost through the download for Opra, and it said I should close all windows. I hit cancel, now I cant get back. Why?

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Amos
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 08:07 PM

If you've got the dough, W2000 is stable and supeiror to XP.

For long term uninterrupted satisfaction, you could get a Mac. I run both NS and IE on OSX with no problems.

A

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 08:23 PM

Ok, I got Opera and Eudora, but, the main page loos awfully busy to me, and I dont see any way to increase the size of the fonts. Any suggestions?

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 08:57 PM

I also dont see how to make Eudora my default e mail server.

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 08:58 PM

kendall....Opera will do so many tricks...takes some time...but for font size hit alt-P, then click on "Fonts & Colors" ...if you like sans-serif fonts, scroll down to "CSS fon-family sans-serif" and hit 'choose' at the right. It will give you choices of fonts AND sizes....try maybe 10 point to start...

for 'quick' changes to size, you can zoom (there may be a little zoom window on the right that says 100%...if not, you can GET that window thru the alt-P again, and going to 'browser layout' and clicking in the box that says "show zoom field"...you may also be set to do it by just hitting + or - on your number pad!

for more reading go here and here

sorry if it seem like a hell of a mess...It just has so damn much it taks a while to get to where you say.."oh...is THAT all it takes?"...sort of like a barred F chord..*grin*

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 09:03 PM

in Eudora, go up top to 'tools' then scroll WAY down to "extra warnings" ...there is a box which says to warn you if you "start Eudora and it's not the default mailer...check that, and Eudora will fight off wannabe mailers!..*grin*

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 09:08 PM

(like Opera, Eudora has lots of options and settings...you can control 'almost' everything...how often it checks mail, font used...whether it sends immediately or queues you mail (very crucial to know how that is set!)....colors, signatures...lots to read and study. But their help file is pretty good!

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 09:12 PM

I dont know if it is worth it! Thanks anyway for the help.

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 09:13 PM

Mark Clark, perhaps a nasty question and one I'm not pointing fingers at in this thread but a generalistion...

I would be the last person to clain MS write a really good OS but I can not report the degree of failure that others have with it. I have even managed to keep Win '98 alive for I'd guess 2 yrs without the CD (I lost it) to re-install bits and when I have had problems have at times really struggled - have even gone through a hard disk failure and yet, overall, for my use got a system that, generally speaking, with my usage can run for over a week without any need for a reboot...

I'm certainly no expert but I try to follow some of the rules (exept backup which has cost me dearly - and I balme JF for that) and I use "critical update"...

I guess what I'm trying to ask is how much of the real horror stories can be put down to "Pilot Error"?

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 09:17 PM

kendall..PM me if you wanta work thru a few bits..I can open both and we can compare..(could also do ICQ for quick chat)

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 09:21 PM

On the chance that it may be helpful:

Microsoft Tech Support Knowledge Base

At this site, you can access - for example:

Q164126 How to Determine Which Version of Internet Explorer is Installed (some people might need this)

Q293513 Availability and Description of Internet Explorer 6 (In case you want to upgrade IE6)

Q293907 How to Uninstall Internet Explorer 6

Q291558 Unable to Uninstall... (some help if you run into problems during an uninstall)

If, perchance, you would like to try another version of IE (maybe it's easier than hunting an immediate replacement) it's my understanding that downloading and installing "SP2 for IE5.5" will install a complete and updated version of IE5.5 if you don't have something more current on the machine. Check this out, before proceding. This SP2 can take quite a while to download on a POTS connection, as its multi-megabytes.

Q303201 List of Issues Fixed in Internet Explorer 5.5 Service Pack 2 (Includes where to get the download), or

Q276369 How to Obtain the Latest Service Pack for Internet Explorer 5.5

On all versions IE5.5 and earlier, if "Uninstall Files" from a previous version are not present on the machine, the 5.5 SP2 may default to IE 5.01, in which case you are strongly urged to install IE 5.01 SP2 before you start "whuppin' up" on the network.

Hardware, other installed software, your ISP, and a dozen other things can affect the choice of the best web browzer, so I can't recommend what anyone should do. I had these Qs handy because TurboTax just cra...d on my setup. Hope they may be of help.

John

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: folkmonster
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 09:27 PM

A poem entitled "Microsoft Browser SOftware Error Figures"

Microsoft Browser? Software Error? Figures.

FM

PS I use Opera 6. Very good but not perfect. WHEN are they going to fix the this.style.color= bug?

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 02 - 09:34 PM

" this.style.color= bug?" hmmm??

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 01:54 AM

Jon, Your generalization is correct. A great deal of the emotion about Microsoft comes from people who spend too much time reading the conspiracy sites and not enough time learning about their computer systems. If people would use sites like Gibson Research and PC Pitstop, understand the issues and follow their advice, they would have far fewer problems.

Many people want to treat a computer as an appliance—just plug it in and use it. These people should probably be using Macs instead of PCs. I know people who buy the cheapest hardware they can find and load or build highly questionable systems on them. They never back up their systems or perform a defrag or a Disk Cleanup or ScanDisk. They may have learned how to use a few of the applications but they have no understanding of the regular houskeeping tasks that must be performed to keep a computer running properly. If anything goes wrong, they are incapable of performing any meaningful analysis. They quickly become frustrated and, as often as not, reload everything beginning with Windows. Since running fdisk and performing a reload also means all the maintenance activities are performed as a side effect, their reload often fixes the problem and they feel justified.

Microsoft products do, as Jon and others have pointed out, have problems but there is no need to avoid them if they meet your needs. Just learn about their flaws, keep the rivisions up-to-date and be responsible about maintenance and most problems will be minor ones.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 02:33 AM

I use both Netscape (version 4.78) and IE (5.5) with Win2000 Professional and they work pretty well most of the time. The system apologizes (sounds something like "sorry, you'll lose your data, but the program must close") before crashing. Through school I use FrontPage as an HTML editor (the program sucks). It makes lots of mistakes but IE lets them past while Netscape won't. So I check my web designs in Netscape.

I go to Tucows to get all of my program downloads. First choose your operating system, then choose a nearby locations (I usually go to Lease Net in Dallas, since I'm in Fort Worth, TX). Then choose the program you wnat to download. They list their most popular programs at the tops of the pages, but look below the list to find others. Or search for Internet Explorer in the search box, and you'll find lots of older versions of it.

You'll also find Opera and many other browsers, for a fee and for free (or shareware, for a free trial then a fee if you kedp it). Tons of stuff to download at Tucows.

If you have an academic affiliation you can often download programs for free or at significantly reduced costs. I work at a university and use my software at home to do work for the office. They distribute it on CD's that are usually $5 each. This staff (or student) status is great.

I hope this is readable. My allergies are kicking in (with Benedryl in pursuit!) and I fixed a lot of typos. Probably missed a few.

Subject: RE: BS: IE 6.0.2600.0000 SUCKS !!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 02:37 AM

Forgot to add--I use Pegasus Mail. Very powerful, and it's completely free. No ads, either. http://www.pmail.com