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BS: Corel lied about our rebate
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Subject: BS: Corel lied about rebate From: Bev and Jerry Date: 30 Oct 02 - 08:15 PM In June, 2002 we bought a new computer which came with Windows XP. Since we have been using Corel Wordperfect ever since Columbus brought it from the old world, we purchased an upgrade to Corel Office Suite 2002. Corel promised on the phone that we would get a $30 rebate if we mailed in the form which we could download from their site. The site was down and when we downloaded the form one week later we discovered that we were supposed to include the UPC code from the box with our request. By this time we had discarded the box, of course. We sent in the form with a copy of our receipt, and three weeks later we got an e-mail from the rebate company that our rebate was denied because we failed to include the UPC code. We called Corel and they assured us that we would get a rebate because we were registered users. More than two months later all Corel would say is that the rebate is approved and the rebate company should send it. When we finally called the rebate company we were told that they would not send a rebate to a post office box so they cancelled the rebate. After a total of four months we can only conclude that Corel is using the rebate to lure customers but does not intend to actually send it. Even a letter to their corporate office brought no response. Has anyone else had this experience? Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: GUEST,curmudgeon Date: 30 Oct 02 - 08:21 PM Where do you live? Here in NH,l argely a consumer unfriendly state, the Attorney General's office is most helpful in cases like this. Do not think that it' s not worth the bother for only $30.00. Multiply that by 1000 other victims and it adds up, This may also run afoul of federal regs as well. Fan the flames -- Tom |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: mack/misophist Date: 30 Oct 02 - 08:22 PM Try to get support for the linux version of word perfect without paying something like $2 per minute. Just try. The other support number on their web site has been disconnected forever. If it quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck .... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 30 Oct 02 - 08:24 PM I got an upgrade rebate from them some years ago, but I did have to forward the bit off the box; one has to follow the rules, after all. If you are insisting on their sending a cheque to a PO box, it's probably your fault that it hasn't worked; unless, of course, you have registered the software to that address. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: NicoleC Date: 30 Oct 02 - 08:27 PM Sounds like Corel isn't the problem -- it sounds like their rebate processing company is the culprit. I'd call Corel back and tell 'em what happened with the PO Box thing. So far they seem willing to work with you -- enough problems and they'll stop using this lousy rebate company. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Bev and Jerry Date: 30 Oct 02 - 08:53 PM We live in California but Corel is a Canadian Company with corporate headquarters in Ottowa so complaints to the Attorney General may not work. There is absolutely no indication on their form or website that they will not send the rebate to a post office box. The rebate company made that up yesterday! Since we do not receive mail at our physical address, we told them to include both addresses. They said they would but their on-line inquiry system still says they do not owe us a rebate. Yes, it is the rebate company that is the problem since Corel keeps saying the rebate should be sent to us. But we suspect this is an intentional ruse like good cop, bad cop. The result is that they have to send few if any actual rebates. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 30 Oct 02 - 08:59 PM I doubt it. Corel is not necessarily very well organised (very far from it, I suspect), but I don't doubt their probity. To what address is your software registered? The PO Box, or something else? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Bev and Jerry Date: 30 Oct 02 - 09:00 PM The P.O. box. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 30 Oct 02 - 09:07 PM That's a bit clearer, then. Next: is the company handling rebates in Canada or the US? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Bev and Jerry Date: 30 Oct 02 - 10:34 PM The company is apparently handling rebates in the U.S. although next time we call we wouldn't be surprised to hear that they only handle rebates in Angola. Don't know about Canada. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 30 Oct 02 - 10:52 PM Sorry, I wasn't very clear; I meant, is the sub-contractor based in Canada or the US. Would make quite a difference, I would think. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: toadfrog Date: 30 Oct 02 - 11:09 PM Gee, Symantec promised me a $20 rebate for renewing my subscrption right away. Never managed to figure out how you even asked for that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Mark Clark Date: 30 Oct 02 - 11:10 PM I don't know what you paid for the upgrade to WordPerfect Pro 2002 but if the rebate was $30 I'm guessing the price was higher than that. Of course it makes no difference now but you could have purchased the whole Wordperfect Pro 2002 suite (OEM version, no printed manuals) for $12 USD. If you've been using WP as long as you say, you don't need the printed manuals anyway. The description on PriceWatch says: COREL WORDPERFECT OFFICE 2002 PRO OEM CD WP10, QUATTRO PRO 10, PARADOX 10,PRES 10 (NO DRAGON)Always check PriceWatch.com before making any sort of computer or software purchase. You may not end up buying through their referenced dealer but at least you'll know how much you should be paying. I too try to take advantage of any rebates when they are available and I've never had any trouble. I don't use Corel products but I've seen nothing to make me suspicious of them. I think in every case, I've always been required to cut the UPC code from the box and send it along. I usually hold off until I'm sure I don't want to return the item, then cut the UPC label from the box and fill out the forms. So far, I've never been stiffed. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Bev and Jerry Date: 30 Oct 02 - 11:11 PM We don't know who they are as they mumble their name when they answer the phone. Sounds like TCA Services. The 800 number we call could be in Canada or the U.S.The e-mail we received from them said it was from "RebateCenter"@mail11.atl.registeredsite.com We know that in the U.S. at least, tasks like this are sometimes subcontracted to prisons where the inmates earn a paltry sum for answering phone calls. Corel always refers to them as the rebate company without ever naming them. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Bev and Jerry Date: 30 Oct 02 - 11:14 PM We paid about $150 for the upgrade at a local store. Corel offered it to us at about the same price. In either case, they promised us a $30 rebate. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 31 Oct 02 - 12:01 AM You must be one of those "folk" who kept their heads buried in the back end of a Mudcat the past two years.
It has been plastered over the Business Pages of newspapers for the past two years....the Corel company is going down, Down, DOWN, and flames grow higher. In your case .... suck in the gut ... your $30 dollars will burn, Burn, BURN, in that corporate ring of fire.
COREL stock prices approx = 02/2000=20.00 03/2000=15.00 04/2000=5.00 01/2001=2.50 01/2002=1.98 10/2002= 0.95
Sincerely,
Look Chick-A-Chick, reflect a little bit, if ALL mud-addled idjets posted this type of B.Shit....how much non-musical, non-folk, non-blues crap could the forum hold? Just because you were ignorant and made a mistaken purchase doesn't mean you should trumpet your absurdities to the world.
Do you expect this posting to "humiliate them" into your refund???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 31 Oct 02 - 12:07 AM The P.O. Box restriction has been in place for years - with multiples of major corporations.
Scam artists would make purchases, with rebate restrictions of one per household then rent several one-month P.O.'s and rake in the lucre.
Why not give Corel your REAL home address? Or are you a "traveler" of the Irish sort?
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Bev and Jerry Date: 31 Oct 02 - 01:01 AM Gargoyle: We stated that we did give them our physical address when they first asked for it - yesterday. We didn't know Corel was crashing. That's the kind of information we were soliciting with this post. Thanks. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Joe Offer Date: 31 Oct 02 - 01:27 AM Seems like all the rebates I get are from Arizona. I had problems with Symantec this year. I bought $150 worth of software, including Symantec/Norton System Works, Microsoft Money, and a tax program. There were six or seven rebates in the deal, which was supposed to bring my cost down to $20, plus tax on $150. I got everything but one Symantec rebate. When I e-mailed a query, my message was rejected because the Website said "Offer" was not a valid name. I finally got through to an answering machine, and got a phone call back from India several weeks later. I did finally get the rebate - eight months after my purchase. What a hassle! -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: JohnInKansas Date: 31 Oct 02 - 02:40 AM A few months ago my local newpaper carried an article by one of the regular consumer affairs columnists that indicated that less than 10% or so of "rebates" are ever successfully claimed by purchasers. That's why the manufacturers like them so much. I'm sure I clipped the article, but apparently didn't get it posted in my usual place for such stuff. My put on it is that anybody that offers a rebate is admitting that they priced their stuff at more than it's worth, and they're hoping they can stick you with paying it. They DO NOT EXPECT to pay the rebate that is offered to more than a small percentage of the customers. Unfortunately, the practice is so widespread that it's impossible to simply refuse to buy anything that has a rebate attached. I haven't dealt with Corel, but in my book, biggest offenders are Intuit (Quicken and TurboTax) and Norton. By carefully reading and following all instructions, I'm batting about 30% on successfully receiving rebates from both of them. I'll note too that in the cases where I didn't get the rebates, I did get on their mailing lists (and apparently lists of others they sold my address to.) The junk mail hassle is really more than the (recoverable) rebate is worth. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Willie-O Date: 31 Oct 02 - 09:58 AM Corel isn't setting any records, but it's not in any danger of imminent collapse. Lots of people prefer their Office Suite, especially WordPerfect, to MS Office, and Corel Draw is still popular with graphics professionals. They're known as a real sweatshop to work for, though. (I'm taking a technical writing program in Ottawa, and almost all of my instructors have worked there at some point.) Their biggest problem is that they zinged around in so many different directions: Java is everything! Let's buy WordPerfect! Forget Java! Let's beat Microsoft! Ouch, stop hurting me Bill! Let's do Linux! Let's not do Linux! Luckily for the workforce Michael Cowpland is out of the company now, and they are settling down a bit and concentrating on maintaining their modest share for Office and Draw, which has paid for all their other shenanigans. (Cowpland was charged with insider trading for dumping a bunch of shares before a bad profit forecast). Corel's stock went down early, before the tech recession actually. Then it shot up briefly with the Linux stuff, then crashed with everything else. Very few people got burned the way Nortel burned people, Corel was already a stock for gamblers. John's right about rebates. I expect you'll get it eventually, which no doubt will be sweet. Willie-O in Ottawa. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: NicoleC Date: 31 Oct 02 - 11:26 AM I've never had trouble receiving a rebate, and I use 'em all the time. (Except once when I clearly bought the wrong thing for the rebate. I got a letter back... I was surprised.) I used to sell the stuff, and manufacturers will tell you outright that most people never bother to send them in. And corporate offices' purchasing systems can rarely handle it correctly. BTW, Mark, OEM copies are not legal for resale. But as a developer, I may take software piracy a little personally :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Coyote Breath Date: 31 Oct 02 - 11:40 AM Willie O I must say this: Corel Draw (and Freehand as well) are not very good programs for illustration. I have been using Adobe Illustrator since version 1.x and prefer it. I have used Freehand and have had to "deal" with Corel Draw. I don't care for CD and perhaps it is a preference thing but it (and Word Perfect) always felt as non-intuitive and "left-brain" as a drawing program could get. By the way I used Macs from 1986 to this March. I also used PCs and I MUCH prefer my Dell to my Mac. When it comes to Illustrator (and PhotoShop and, even PageMaker) I find almost NO difference in performance regardless of the platform. I also like InDesign. CB |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Willie-O Date: 31 Oct 02 - 11:49 AM I've never used Corel Draw, so I don't have any product loyalty. I'm not an artist. What do I know? But had it not been for Draw, Corel (a) would be a shortlived company you never heard of and (b) would have gone broke trying all their other harebrained schemes. W-O |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Mark Clark Date: 31 Oct 02 - 12:25 PM Nicole, There are several companies offering OEM versions of popular programs. These copies are legitimate copies and can be properly registered with their makers. As I understand it, the distributers are taking advantage of a loophole that requires that the OEM version of the software be sold together with “computing hardware.” The legal verbage doesn't require the hardware to be a complete working computer so they slip in a tiny component of some sort that satisfies the legal requirement. I was surprised that the OEM version of Wordperfect Pro 2002 was available for $12 USD though. OEM versions of Microsoft Office XP Pro are generally available in the $300-400 range as opposed to the $500-600 range. I agree with your wish that developers not be ripped off. I never use unlicensed software and I even pay for shareware I actually use even if I could get away without paying. In the case of the big commercial houses, the legitimate OEM copies exist because they were properly sold by the manufacturer and they already received whatever payment they thought was appropriate. It's understood that OEM versions do not include any support from the manufacturer (that is supposed to come from the hardware supplier) so there is very little cost to the manufacturer when they sell OEM copies. Any money they get is pure profit and of course the developers who built the product are on salary, not commission. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: NicoleC Date: 31 Oct 02 - 01:45 PM OEM licensing terms depend on the exact license -- there is no universal code. It's called mischannelling, or sometimes the gray market. In the case of Corel, it MAY be legitimate, although I doubt it. In the case of the copies of MS Office, it's not. There's no such thing as a legitimate license until it reaches the appropriate end user. Resellers do NOT buy or sell licenses; they never, in fact, own anything. The reseller is only a channel, they have no right to assign or revoke a license. OEM licenses are a big money maker, because companies manufacture a CD and somestime a mini-manual to go in the computer box. Typically when you buy a legitimate license that's not a boxed product, the license is mailed directly from the software company or one of a handleful of distribution houses. There's no physical product from the reseller's point of view. For example, Reseller X is authorized to channel academic licenses from Microsoft. Reseller X is bound by their agreement with MS to only sell those particular licenses to academic institutions. If Reseller X sells an academic license to a business, both the reseller and the purchaser are in violation of their license terms directly with Microsoft. Does it work when you install it? Yes. Is it legal? No. When I sold licenses, customers would exert an enormous amount of pressure to get these cheaper licenses, even when they knew they didn't qualify. Academic licenses are dirt cheap; charitable licenses are practically free. It's a myth to say that money from license sales doesn't matter because the developers are on salary. Like any investment, the company needs to get their money back via sales or they are out of business. The box cost is negligable, it's the labor that you're paying for. It's not profit. (Well, it might be. But it also night not.) In the case of an OEM license, it's cheaper because it's non-transferrable and they are hoping to get a customers because of the bundling with a computer. Let's say I write a custom package for a client. I license them to use it, and sometimes modify it, to their heart's content. If it's a totally new kind of product, I probably undercharged the client, because I'll get to reuse code down the line for another client. In short, I invested labor that I wasn't reimbursed on for one sale, but I plan to recoup that investment down the road. Let's say someone that works there has a friend that needs the same kind of software. They give them a copy of my software. Am I out money? You'd better believe it. I lost a potential new customer, and I've invested labor (money) that I don't get back. That second copy is not "free" and it's not pure profit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Peter T. Date: 31 Oct 02 - 02:23 PM I think I must be the culprit. I have used nothing but Wordperfect, Netscape, and Macs since the beginning, and all these products, which are infinitely superior to the M word, struggle along (at least Apple is out of the tailspin). I also go to quiet restaurants which go bust because the restaurants are quiet (i.e. too few customers). Perhaps I should carry a bell and warn oncomers. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Bev and Jerry Date: 31 Oct 02 - 02:28 PM Thank you all for your input. We conclude the following: 1. Never buy anything with a mail-in rebate unless you're prepared to pay the full price without the rebate. 2. No one else on this discussion has had this experience with Corel although the experience seems to be common in the industry. 3. The rebate companies in general make it difficult to actually get the rebate because they are financially motivated to do so. If they can show that they only pay a small percentage of the rebates, they will get the contract to handle the next rebate. By the way, we have sent in rebate requests before and always received the rebate. In fact, the new computer we bought which started this whole thing was from Gateway and they sent a $100 rebate to us at our P.O. Box. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Mark Clark Date: 31 Oct 02 - 02:43 PM Nicole, Yes, I understand all that. I'm a developer as well. I wouldn't install software that wasn't packaged by the original manufacturer for sale in its respective channel. I also wouldn't do business with a black or gray market supplier. And of course I don't approve people freely sharing a single copy of software they've licensed for a single user or machine. I hope I didn't give the impression that I approved of piracy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: NicoleC Date: 31 Oct 02 - 03:35 PM I didn't think you did approve of piracy, Mark -- sorry if I gave them impression. Resellers who sell "discount" packages that are mischannelled licenses often prey on folks who don't realize that what they are doing is illegal, they're just trying to look for a good deal. Sorry to lecture :) Trying to keep up with licensing programs is a chore, but trying to keep up with the latest software versions is a major pain in the wallet, too! Glad I subscribe to the "MS Action Pack!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: GUEST Date: 31 Oct 02 - 09:49 PM If you bought a Gateway you paid FULL PRICE and then some. Of course, they could afford the "rebate." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Grab Date: 01 Nov 02 - 08:53 AM You should also conclude:- 4) Don't spend a large amount of money on anything until you've had a proper look into whether what you're buying is worth it. If I was spending $150 on something, I'd be doing a fair bit of web-surfing to get all the info I could find about it and its competitors before I made the decision. 20:20 hindsight, I know, but everyone knows software changes *fast*. Buying a new version of some software just because you liked the old version is never a wise choice - certainly consider the newer version, but also see whether there's anything better or cheaper out there which would do you just as well. Please tell me you didn't also go for the "extended warranty" or "on-site assistance" scams from Gateway as well? They're another fine way to throw money down the toilet. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Bev and Jerry Date: 01 Nov 02 - 04:29 PM Graham: You get your wish. We didn't go for the extended warranty or on-site assistance scams. We wrote down exactly what we were looking for and started shopping at brick and mortar stores. Bear in mind that we live in a very remote area. Our choices were Sears. Staples and Gateway and Gateway had exactly what we were looking for right there in the store. We just took it home. There are some independent shops in the general area who could assemble what we wanted but none has a good reputation. We could have bought on the web but in the past we have always had to take the machine back to have something fixed and the prices seemed comparable. This time, we had some problems due in the main to our ignorance about things of a computer nature but they were resolved over the phone with Gateway. They did make some mistakes but, on the whole, they were pretty good. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Bev and Jerry Date: 01 Nov 02 - 06:55 PM Oh, mighty mudcat, how infinite is thy power. We fall upon our knees in thy glorious presence. We made several calls to Corel and to their rebate company and wrote a letter to Corel's corporate office and four months of effort produced no results. Two days ago we started this thread and today the rebate appeared in our P.O. Box. Religions have been started on miracles smaller than this. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Corel lied about our rebate From: Coyote Breath Date: 02 Nov 02 - 02:47 AM Hmmm, the timing of Corel's response could just be a coincidence or... Bev and Jerry tell a tale of woe. It's bad "press". While only Bev and Jerry and a handful of others post about the thread, who knows how many others are reading it. Making decisions about purchases. The www has the potential of being a hi-tech version of the old town meeting, a platform from which a single person can reach hundreds of thousands of other persons. A platform that almost automatically validates what that single person is saying simply because the presentation is as complete, organized and "professional" in appearance as the most carefully thought-out promotional campaign. True, no stunning graphics or attention grabbing animation, usually no stirring music track, but those elements often distract from the message on the www because most of us barely glance at them, knowing them to be enticements and bait and of no real consequence. Sometimes, not even being very well executed. CB |