Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs

Subject: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: Mugwump
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:29 AM

Why is it that I have never come across any Welsh folk songs? I frequent many folk clubs and sing arounds, hear plenty of English, Irish, Scotch, even ozzie stuff. I don't mean Harry Seacome - but true music from the valleys.

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:47 AM

There's a lot more to Wales besides "the valleys", but that aside ...

I suppose there are a number of reasons, amongst which:

- the majority are in the Welsh language (you probably don't hear a lot of Breton or Basque or Norwegian songs either)

- Irish/Scottish are currently considered 'real' celtic (largely by marketing people more than the folk community, but it 'sticks')and 'fashionable' (I can actually think of instances where Wales has been excluded from an American Celtic event because Wales wasn't included in the organizers' definition of Celtic)

- people go for the easy option, and buy up the "Your 200 Favourite Irish Songs" instead of shopping around

- the Welsh don't market their culture as vehemently as other nations. (It was not always thus.)

There are probably other reasons. The above are in no particular order. There are certainly enough tapes/CDs/books about for anyone who did want to learn.

sian

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:13 PM

See http://www.geocities.com/sianfiddle/spdk_site/index.html for some fine current Welsh folk music.
Are there other Welsh performers (other than pure instrumentalists) whose work is available on the net, but who are not well know outside of Wales? Aren't there Welsh performers who - like the Clancy's for the Irish - can get a pub singing and clapping? Not that I like that stuff, but I think that's what it would take to get "big" in the US.
I hope there would always be a good, small market in the US for good folk music from anwwhere.   For example, Steve Gillette and Cindy Mangsen will never be household names, but I and others always turn out for their concerts.   
Saw Robin Huw Bowen's Christmas show on Saturday in Chicago - good concert group that is touring the US - see Nancy Carlin's site for all stops, but the event was not very well advertised and sparsely attended - I hope they do better in other venues. Has there ever been an article in Sing Out on any Welsh musicians?
Chris

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:49 PM

Robin Huw Bowen came through Cleveland area last holiday season. I have listened to & programmed his music for years, but didn't go, because I am not interested in 'Holiday' music. I would have gone for Welsh traditional music. There used to be touring Welsh choral groups, haven't seen one in years, used to go every year they came through. Harder to organize such tours nowadays? Less participation in choral singing in Wales? I hope not, but don't know. There should be an Eisteddfod tour like the Comhaltas tour. THere are sone fine Welsh singers (I'll post there names when I can remember them!), similar to sean nos style Irish singers, who I would love to see, but they haven't toured the states yet, as far as I know.

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: Gareth
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 01:02 PM

Click 'Ere

and 'Ere

and 'Ere

Try browsing 'Ere

or a search in the Mudcat under Wales, or Welsh.

Please note the Irish and Saxons have hijacked many Welsh Songs and tunes for their own devious ends, such as "The Holy Ground", which should of course be "Swansea Town". As did the Wesley Brothers for their hymns.

From these valleys many first class choirs, such as the Pendyrus or Treorchy have and will tour stateside.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: Helen
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 05:18 PM



      Barry Taylor's Tune Book
Barry Taylor's Tune Book has some lovely Welsh songs, and while you are in that vicinity check out Lesley Nelson's

      Contemplator site for all sorts of traditional music. (These are two of my absolute favourite web addresses)

I have a love of Welsh music, not only because of my Welsh-born grandmother, born in Pontypridd, South Wales, but also because I love to hear choral singing - it stirs my heart - and because I play Celtic harp. Or do I play Celtic harp and love choral singing because I have Welsh blood? Nature or nurture?

Helen

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: Susan of DT
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 05:53 PM

try @Wales and @Welsh in the digital tradition - not al lot of songs, but some.

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 05:39 AM

It's there you've just got to dig deep!

Try some o these...

http://www.taplas.co.uk/

http://www.cassmeurig.com/

http://www.ffynnon.freeservers.com/

http://www.ragfoundation.co.uk/

http://www.fernhill.info/

http://www.trac-cymru.org/

http://www.fflach.co.uk/

http://www.sain.wales.com/

There that lot should keep you busy! The last 2 are Welsh record companies!


Hwyl!

Ella

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 07:57 AM

The biggest touring Welsh choir are those who follow the Welsh rugby team. To hear several thousand voices sing 'Cwm Rhondda' or 'I bob un'in a sports stadium is a beautiful thing. When heard in the Millennium Stadium with tens of thousands of voices it is worth extra points for Wales (and we need them at the moment!)

Nigel

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 09:19 AM

There are a number of tracks (and a variety of music styles) on Wales Radio International

So ... where has Charles Atlas got to? I was meaning to ask him where he is based.

Also, I was hoping that some of you might add to my list of reasons for not hearing more Welsh music about. Or disagree with my list. It's something that interests me. (Nigel - check out the Aderyn Du thread too.)

sian

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 09:21 AM

Sian,West Wales makes a great point. Time was, scholars divided the Celtic languages into two families, P-Celtic and Q-Celtic. A new classification seems to have arisen, largely driven by American music marketing. This is OK-Celtic and NonOK-Celtic. In the first category come Irish and Scottish. In the second come Welsh, Manx, Cornish and Breton, plus recent additions to the canon such as Galician, Galatian and whatever else I cant bring to mind. Breton had a bit of a burst a few years back and nearly made it to the first league, but it's slipped recently. There is also stuff that doesnt make it into the Celtic league-table at all, particularly places where they invented being Celtic, like Austria, germany, Denmark etc.
    On the subject of Welsh traditional, I would strongly recommend Bragod ( Robert Evans on crwth and Mary-Anne Roberts vocal). They say they are trying to recreate an old Welsh way of singing and playing. Havent got the background knowledge to begin to guess whether they are being successful in that aim or not, but the music is totally amazing. Not to say frightening. Dont know how you buy the CDs, but the label gives bob-evans(at)ntlworld.com. Strongly recommended.

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: treewind
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 11:10 AM

The questions to answer really are
- Why is Irish Music so popular?
- Why is Scottish music so popular?

Irish music thrived in the USA during the early 20th Century because there were so many expatriate Irish, who were forced to emigrate by economic pressure. Figures like Captain O'Neill of the Chicago Police, who published his "1001 Gems" Irish tunes collection, and the advent of recording technology at just the right time created encouragement, competition and a big market for the music.

Scotland (and hence its native culture) has benefitted by the patronage of the Royal family. It's been respectable ever since Queen Victoria fell in love with it and the Royal Family took up residence at Balmoral.

Apart from the lack of such high powered sponsorship, Wales, Cornwall and the other Celtic areas are all much smaller, and it may make a difference that they have less separate national identity.

I like "OK-Celtic" and "Non-OK-Celtic" !!!

We've got a Bragod CD - I think it came directly from the performers - I'll check. Sain would be a good 2nd guess.

And for a small seasonal contribution try this MP3 of
Ar Fore Dydd Nadolig

Anahata

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 11:29 AM

Interesting clip, Anahata. Yeh - the scope of traditional Welsh carols kinda cracks me up too (funny to 21st century ears, really, but very traditional) My guess as to the singer: hmmm. Julie Murphy? Lynne Denman? or ... hmmmm, Bragod? (I haven't heard them; on my 'wish list'!) Sounds like a live recording - Learners' group?

Not sure where Bragod record. Might be Fflach?

And I like the OK/Non-OK too!

I feel honour-bound to note that the Welsh did undergo a period of great popularity, particularly in America, in the mid-1800s. Hywel Teifi Edwards does a brilliant lecture on the "real" and "first" Cool Cymru (referring to the recent spurt of coolness generated by Catatonia, Super Furries and others - a pale imitation of the 19th C one.). The list of choirs, soloists, harpers touring across the States in the 1850s/60s was unbelievable. They were equally fashionable in London, and royal circles. I suppose the popularity of All Through the Night, The Ash Grove, Jenny Jones, and ilk are a product of that period.

sian

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: treewind
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 12:32 PM

Hi

Mary Humphreys is standing here behind me and giving me permission to tell you that it is her singing! It was 2 years ago at the Ryburn Three Step Folk club in Rishworth. The bagpipe drone is provided by Steve Harrison.

The link on that page is broken. I had to do some quick shuffling to make that clip accessible and some web site housekeeping is needed.

We are performing it currently (seasonally), with me playing the drone on Leicestershire smallpipes. We precede the song with Nos Galan featuring Mary playing concertina. No MP3 available yet!

Anahata

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 01:14 PM

We have the Bragod CD. We first heard it on Radio 3's Late Junction with Fiona Talkington. I emailed her saying how brilliant I thought it was and she played another track straight away! She must like it too.
I got the contact details from her - the CD is available ( I think it is about 12 pounds sterling ) from:
[e-mail]
It is experimental Welsh music of the most exciting kind. I love it.
Let Bob know that you heard about it from me! I want as many people out there to hear him and Mary-Anne Roberts.

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 01:23 PM

Well I hate to be picky, Mary Humphreys, but when they are telling Bob Evans they heard it from you I hope they might mention I posted that contact half a dozen messages back as well.

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 01:35 PM

Greg- the more of us out here that appreciate his & Mary-Anne's work the better! Anyone who read your post first - unlike me - will mention your name. So don't let's fight -eh? Life's too short.

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: treewind
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 01:45 PM

Greg, I'm sure if anyone saw your link first they'd be happy to give you credit for it.

Lighten up.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 06:37 PM

That last post of mine was pusillanimous pissy and childish. All I can say is I've just had a knee operation, and I'm laid up on the couch and feeling sorry for myself and momentarily grumpy on that occasion. Apologies!!

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: pavane
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 01:42 PM

If the question is about Welsh songs in English, Mick Tems (of Calennig) collected and recorded quite a few.

Unfortunately he suffered a bad stroke last year and can no longer perform, as far as I am aware. (Does anyone have recent news?)

Some of his recordings are available, although I believe others are 'bulmerised' at present.

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 02:04 PM

Calennig's web page is the place to go for Calennig's recordings and news of new recordings. I didn't know they had been Bulmerised!

Looks like Mick is still not well enough to perform. Perhaps we should send him a Get back into action soon message from Mudcat?

I see that they have a new CD from Wild Goose studios. They do great recordings and are well worth checking out.Definitely the one to go for.

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 11:31 AM

Mick was one of our speakers at trac's "Season and the Song" event in Fishguard on 24 Nov. It was great to see him and, although he still has a fair way to go, he spoke with his usual wit and wisdom and sang a few examples of Mari Lwyd songs. He also came to the session in the evening with his box and we all had a great time! I've heard that he's been putting in appearances at folk clubs - Llantrisant, I presume.

Great to see him getting back into the swing. CDs highly recommended!

sian

Subject: RE: Wanted - Welsh Traditional Songs
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 12:48 PM

Great news Sian. Glad Mick is getting back to performing. A more generous man you couldn't hope to meet - he took great pains to send me a song collected in my home village of Coedpoeth that I had never heard of before.
We don't see much of Mick & Pat here in this part of the world ( East Anglia) more's the pity. Perhaps when he is back to full health we will.