Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.

Subject: Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.
From: Fortunato
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 09:00 AM

My guitar tech commented, shortly after I bought it, that it was good but surprising that the top of my Gallagher below the bridge was perfectly flat since the guitar was made in '97. The intonation was excellent all the way up the neck. The bridge bone was quite high, however and leaning forwards a few degrees. Now, after months and MANY hours of playing there is a slight rounding of the top below the bridge and the bridge bone is leaning a few degrees further forward, and the intonation is less than perfect on the 6th string.


First, does this indicate that the guitar had been little played before me? There is no sign of wear on the frets or elsewhere. Second, is there ever a reason to use a tall bridge bone? Or was the previous setup ill advised? Third, and most important, how long should I wait to have the tech do a setup? The guitar came with medium gauge strings and had the exact sound and dynamic I want. I'm currently using light gauge at the request of the tech, who felt that was best until the top "came up" to protect the bridge.

I welcome your opinions. I have no experience with tops "coming up" and except when there's a loose brace and that is not the case here.

cheers, Chance

Subject: RE: Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.
From: Fortunato
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 11:47 AM

Refreshing.

Subject: RE: Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 11:52 AM

The bridge saddle, or "bone" as you say, should not tilt. It should be made to fit well enough in the slot that there is no room for tilt. The height of the saddle is adjusted, along with the height of the nut and the tension of the neck truss rod, to give you the action you want. Al

Subject: RE: Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 12:15 PM

Hmmmmmm.....bummer!

Well, I'm afraid I go in a bit of a diferent direction with this.

I use light strings, no matter what anyone says. Cuts down the volume a tad, but I've seen too many weird things happen to tops, saddles and bridges.

Now, if I hadn't dealt with this situation at least three times (from memory) I'd keep quiet, but........

I had the best sounding axe I've ever heard (a Mossman Golden Era) simply screw up big time with bridge-saddle problems. I tried to rectify it for over a year and finally sold it to a chap, who has (for twenty two years now) the finest sounding untunable, virtually unplayable guitar in the world. He doesn't know or care as is still happy with it. He says to me "Bet yer sorry ya sold it"! I smile and nod, and think "well, as long as you stay on the first three frets...."

Every (NOT SOME BUT EVERY) Martin I've ever owned, I've had the saddle split in order to make the intonation on the bass string play in tune. Yup, ten or so various Martins and EVERY ONE has had this adjustment (except my current D-41)

The reason I haven't done it to my new (1984) one is NOT because the intonation is correct on the sixth string (it's like all Martins...a tad sharp) but because I haven't had time....I probably will.

Anyway this is probably no help at all.....just an excuse for me to ramble... but what I'd say is: Get it to the best repairperson in yer hood and FORCE them to give you a very honest evaluation before you get it fixed (will it happen agai?). Sometimes I think that the quest for the "Holy Grail" will never end.

For example: The best sounding "BOOMER" Martin from the forties, with almost no weight, great looks, history etc. will be almost impossible to keep in tune during the summer....meanwhile kids with Tacs and Yamahas will rarely need to turn a peg!

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 12:22 PM

On the other hand, would a simple (and expensive) neck-reset do the trick, so a shorter saddle would suffice?

Rick

Subject: RE: Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.
From: Fortunato
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 12:44 PM

Uh, oh. Yeah, I will get it up to John the guitar doctor. I'll let you know what happens. cheers, chance

Subject: RE: Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 01:05 PM

Sounds like a classic case to try the bridge doctor - which I have mentioned here before but not got totrying myself yet - all Breedloves, and Landola 12 strings have them as standard...

Subject: RE: Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.
From: Mooh
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 01:38 PM

If the saddle tilts in its slot, get a snug fitting one before you correct intonation. The intonation with a snug saddle might be correctd by shaping the saddle itself. If there's no possibility of this, have a new saddle slot and saddle cut and located properly.

All this will be in vain if the bridge itself is tilted towards the soundhole. Yes a Bridge Doctor might help, but I suggest you get the bridge correctd first. Not a cheap repair but any solid wood instrument is worth the trouble. If top bellying is the cause, make sure the string tension is within the capabilities of the guitar, even if it means light guages (surely the differences between light and mediums wouldn't ruin it for you). There may be bracing or bridge plate issues that aren't immediately obvious so it's worth a thorough investigation by an experienced luthier.

I wouldn't do a neck reset unless it was obviously the problem, which it likely isn't on a 97 Gallagher. Sounds like it wasn't heavily played before you got it, but was there also a change in its environment (temperature and humidity etc) after you got it? A significant change in these things might provoke a response from the guitar.

I'd be interested in knowing how things get fixed for you, if you report back later.

I love being a guitar nerd.

Mooh.

Subject: RE: Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 02:06 PM

Fortunato,

I'm glad you are taking it back to John. You will want to ask him first if this will be a recurring problem. I own a 1957 Martin D-28 (and Rick I don't know if the bass E is sharp). Martin's of this era have weak support under the bridge. Mine, like many, began to bow upwards. I, too, was a medium gauge kinda guy, but after the repair, I've switched to Light or Extra Light on allmost everything I own.

Don't tell anyone, but on my youth I even put heavy gauge strings on my guitar. I guess I just wanted to make some noise.

A little anecdote about the repair. A few months afterward, I was playing my guitar and suddenly heard a loud THUD from the inside. I was pretty worried until I found that the luthier had left one of his tools in, a jack brace that finally came loose. I returned it to the embarassed luthier.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 03:47 PM

I kinda figure every surgeon has a story like that Rog!

Erom what I gather ALL the veteran bluegrassers used Bell Brand, Mapes and Black Diamond, and they were ALL heavy! That's why NOBODY plays or buys those guitars now whithout neck resets.

I asked a veteran Bluegrasser once about the virtually unplayable action on his old D-28 and he said "What'r ya talkin' about? It's just settlin' in!" Now of course in HIS world there was no NEED to play beyond the third fret, except with a capo. I learned to keep my mouth shut!!

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Luthier/GuitarRepair Question.
From: Fortunato
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 10:22 AM

Thanks all.

Rick, et al. I was inaccurate. All of the strings sharpen slightly when capoed up the neck, and when fretted at the twelth fret. So it's not just the 6th string. The top is VERY SLIGHTLY UP behind the bridge, one must look hard to see it.

Mooh, the guitar lived in Michegan and now lives in Maryland. So it had been through some winters. Two months ago I put a humidifier in the case with the Gallagher.
I appreciate your opinions. regards, chance