new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL

Subject: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 03:02 PM

the e-ceilidh reading of the PEL bill and its ammendments has highlighted a get-out for Morris.
Whereby Morris dancing is exempt from the licence requirement if there is no music or the musicians are unamplified.
TV & Jukeboxes are also exempt (but amplified) so thankfully Kariomossiske is a non starter. Phew.

The originator of this clause was Lord Redesdale who (it is said) would welcome a dance named after him.
It was not clear if this was to be a Morris dance or ceilidh dance but not being a Morris dancer my effort has to be "Barn". So Morris choreographers get chorographical.

How his Lordship feels about : Lord Redesdale's Clause : is not yet known but I have that aspect in hand - hopefully.


So Morris dancing will be most popular at acoustic sessions from now on.......... discuss....

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 04:18 PM

Is Barn dance Morris or of a like nature? It may not be exempt.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 05:07 PM

I think with Lord Redesdale's Dance there'd be a lot of talk by the Caller telling people what to do; and as soon as the music started the dancers would go and sit down.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 05:42 PM

I appreciate the effort put in but.

I'm not too sure if Lord Redesdale's performance and last minute sell-out really merits a dance named in his honour, even if wants one. As for a name - Lord Redesdale's Lack of Claws or Lack of Balls may be a better name? Or Lord Redesdale's About Turn and Treachery?

At that point he could have demanded pretty much anything from his close friend, the Government's Lord MacIntosh. For the Tories were all set to vote against the Government and the Lib Dems held the key.

This exemption for Morris was the price of him delivering to the Government the Lib Dem votes that would have defeated the Bill and sent a small events exemption back to the Commons and really concentrated the Government's minds on delivering sensible measures or risk losing the Bill.

He stood with us when the petition with 110,000 of our signatures was delivered to number 10 Downing St. At the last Lords debate he spoke for and the Lib Dems voted for the small events exemption and against the Government.

But this time after a bit of out of hours ping-pong he delivered the Lib Dem votes to the Government although still expressing his opposition to the Bill? A Lib Dem trait, wanting it both ways? I wonder what the whole deal really was? More pong than ping for we will never know.

In all truth - although in theory Morris was to be licensable - it most probably has always been and it was most unlikely that anything would have changed very much in practice - even without Lord Redesdale 30 pieces of silver. I am sure that Lord MacIntosh feels that he got the better of that bargain.

Is Lord Redesdale a hero or a traitor? Deserving of a dance or deserving to be defamed - probably neither - just another bloody politician, who play with our lives like it was a game (of ping pong).

However the amendment is just the latest in a long line of climb -downs that have made the Bill even more illogical, inconsistent and chotic. This may help to scupper it yet - who knows? I think maybe he already has a style of dance to suit - 'idiot dancing' or possibly the twist?

How about a dance in honour of Hamish Birchall?

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 05:47 PM

Does the exemption apply INSIDE licensed premises? I thought it was just for outdoor dancing.

Of course a lot hinges on the definition of "morris".

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 05:58 PM

62LSchedule 1, page 112, line 12, at end insert—
"Morris dancing etc.

The provision of any entertainment or entertainment facilities is not to be regarded as the provision of regulated entertainment for the purposes of this Act to the extent that it consists of the provision of—
(a) a performance of morris dancing or any dancing of a similar nature or a performance of unamplified, live music as an integral part of such a performance, or
(b) facilities for enabling persons to take part in entertainment of a description falling within paragraph (a)."

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 06:19 PM

What does the amendment actually say? I haven't been able to disentangle it from the rest of the amendments, which seem mostly gobbledegook.

As understand, it's some peculiar phrase about Morris Dancing "and dances of a similar nature" - which could mean all kinds of things; after all many Morris Dances are essentially set dances; and Rapper Dances are traditionally danced indoors in pubs, with the confined space being an important aspect of the dance.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 09:16 PM

Thanks for that Shambles - I hadn't seen that when I posted.

Nothing about indoors or outdoors there. And I'd imagine that they'd be hard put to argue that Rapper Dances inside pubs are not "of a similar nature".

And the same would surely go for individual clog or step dances. And Irish set dances are essentially "dances of a similar nature". And until a court decides otherwise, I'd argue that using a jigging doll as a percussion instrument in a session would mean that it was covered by the exemption. After all in the annual stepdancing competition at Moreton Midsummer a jigging doll is always a very popular competitor.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Bassic
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 09:47 PM

And do I not remember some one somewhere who tapped feet at a session being defined as dancing? Can they have it both ways?

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Bassic
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 09:53 PM

Think I will invent a new dance. Tapping feet at sessions in time to the music. " The Dance of a simmilar ilk" Its like morris as far as I am concerned. Anyone want to argue with me ?

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 10:13 PM

Mr Red, your links to the tune don't work. It looks to me like you have found them from John Chambers and then tried to make links from the originating site for the abc (Richard Robinson's Tunebook). here is the MIDI you look to be trying to provide.

BTW, I've played that tune in sessions loads of times but never for dancers. I guess that will be ilegal now :-(.

Jon

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 02:13 AM

How about a dance for me?

It would have to be largely a solo piece - have lots of repeats - go and on for about 3 years and leave you pretty much in the same position as you started.............*Smiles*

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Alexis
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 02:31 AM

I don't know about a dance Shambles, I don't like "made up" dances esp in Northwest, but I still think that if it wasn't for your large number of repeats over 3 or so years, we would be in a far worse situation than we are in now. THANKS
Alex

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 05:05 AM

"The Shambles" does sound like the name of a dance.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 05:37 AM

I think if thanks are due for the Morris exemption - it would be fair to credit Mark Gibbens of EFDSS, who has worked very hard to ensure that the case for all the folk arts was presented.

He was not prepared to be fobbed-off by smooth-talking Ministers and Civil Servants and just persevered where many others in his position would have reluctantly accepted there was no way around or through this high-powered opposition.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Little Robyn
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 07:37 AM

And the tune would have to be the Redesdale Hornpipe!

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Doktor Doktor
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 08:08 AM

Lord Redesdale's Shambles it is then .....

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 11:38 AM

Shambles - So the Funky Gibben will finally make it into the connon?

Mc Grath of Harlow - is that terpsichorean critique or political satire?

Jon thanks I did not have chance to check the website before the ISP disconnected. Yea I realised which one it was when I played it. Good to dance to.

BTW it has been tried but if anyone has a go at it I would welcome some feedback. It is not the hardest dance I have ever danced but is not boringly simple either. Just a bit novel, no more no less.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 11:38 AM

Whatever its title - perhaps we can all see the dances's first performance at the following?

PELs - Protest invitation 18/20 July

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 11:40 AM

Oh and the title does allow for pro or anti interpretation. Read it as you will.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 02:18 PM

Mc Grath of Harlow - is that terpsichorean critique or political satire

Neither. Just my devious suggestions for stretching the exemption into something more generally useful. "Dancing of a similar nature" is a beautifully vague category, and we should try to take advantage of that vagueness.

(In fact I imagine the guidelines will try to pin it down with a definition for what "similar nature" means, and any input to the process of writing those guidelines should seek to widen it as far as possible. Remember "Morris Dancing" has always included solo dances since at least as far back as Will Kemp in the Sixteenth Century.)

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 04:01 PM

Snarl.

How many times?

The guidance cannot change the meaning of the Act. All it can do is to guide the local authorities in their implimentation (not interpretation) of it.

If dance is not morris or of a similar nature, then it is not exempt. The guidance may guide LAs as to the conditions to be imposed if they get a licence application to permit, say, Scottish reeling.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 07:24 PM

I would think - and I may be wrong - that if the guidelines put down an opinion about what "similar to" means in this context, local authorities and magistrates might well take some notice of it. (And I am aware that if it gets to higher courts anyway, a judge could well feel it appropriate to ignore such guidelines completely, and start from scratch.)

I think most people who aren't interested in folk music would in fact be likely to say that there is a great similarity between Morris Dancing and Scottish Reeling - people dressed up in funny costumes capering around to some kind of folk music accompaniment , which most people tend to think all sounds the same anyway, squeeze boxes and fiddles and such.

So I think that if the Government's committee is asking advice in drawing up such guidelines, it would be unwise to emphasise the terrible importance of the differences which we may discern between Morris traditions and other traditions. I think that "Morris Dances and dancing of a similar nature" can and should mean any kind of folk dance display.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:48 AM

a) a performance of morris dancing or any dancing of a similar nature or a performance of unamplified, live music as an integral part of such a performance, or
(b) facilities for enabling persons to take part in entertainment of a description falling within paragraph (a)."

No one is doubting that the palying of a folk tune, is an integral part of such a performance. So the playing of such a tune anywhere by any number of musicans is not regulated entertainment.

Does it say that the dancing actually has to be taking place? Or just that a performance of tunes that are unamplified, live music (that would be as an integral part of such a performance) is not regulated entertainment?

Or even a piano provided for such a purpose should not be regulated and require a licence?

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 04:46 PM

I think the law would be interpreted as "Morris dancing or similar" has to take place and if that is to be accompanied by music it may be if it is "unamplified".

The law ultimately would class Morris as display dancing, even though sides frequently dragoon the public to participate. Playford would fit rather nicely. As would stepping, clogging Appalacian etc. But I am on the side of claiming country dancing is of a similar nature, don't we have to practice? Isn't there a teacher? Don't a lot of of folks sit and watch part of the night?

The unamplified bit can only be applauded by electronic engineers with enough nouse to know about loudness (eg boilermakers) and deafness which accumulates with each exposure. But few seem to understand what I say at times like this.

The irony of "falling on deaf ears & PEL" is not irony - it is rough justice.

As would having to call the event a Barn Morris or Morris Barn.

My feeling is that Lord Redesdale was well aware of the Barn Door he was leaving open but is too smart to even wink in our direction and loose any hidden agenda he has gained. Stealth? You bet.

"The art of the possible" springs to mind here. Was it ever thus.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 04:53 PM

Barn Morris, as opposed to Free Range Morris... Battery Morris would be when they hit each other with sticks.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 08:05 PM

My feeling is that Lord Redesdale was well aware of the Barn Door he was leaving open but is too smart to even wink in our direction and loose any hidden agenda he has gained. Stealth? You bet.

I understand that he now feels that he misjudged the situation - as at the time he was under the wrong impression that the Government had conceded more on the other amendments than they in fact had....

Generally this would now seem to be rather a common misconception in the corridors of power.

It looks more like a case of not even being able to hit a Barn Door.

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 09:39 PM

Free Range Morris is when you go for a quiet drink with someone, in a place you wouldn't expect it, and suddenly, the b&%$&s appear with no introduction and then procede to dance in your beer until you pay them to bugger off.

I carry a penknife with me now... one prick in the bellows and it's all over.

LTS

Subject: RE: new dance, 2 celeb Morris exemption &PEL
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 01:43 AM

one prick in the bellows and it's all over??

When you get one prick in the bellows - that's usually when it al starts.

With apologies to all box players.