Overcoming shyness in singing

Subject: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: GUEST,T-Tone
Date: 14 Jul 03 - 10:50 PM

I started part of this in Jed's composition thread. The question is, how does one know when, or if, it's a good idea to seriously make the transition from guitar player to guitar player/singer. I've lived alone now for three years and have been recording myself on an eight track. It's a useful method because you always get the playback and can do self critiques. I've played guitar for over twenty years and know a lot about melody, keys and the like. But somehow the human voice just mystifies me and I admire the abilities of great singers. Is this just a matter of practice, practice, practice? I think I'm improving. What should I keep in mind as I go about this?

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Bert
Date: 14 Jul 03 - 10:55 PM

Just sing for the fun of it and sing TO the audience; you'll be fine.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 12:41 AM

I'm with Bert. Just do it. Hi Bert..

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: dagenham doc
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 03:31 AM

Same.

Doc.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 05:17 AM

Are you talking about singing in public? I guess you are, since you'd have to be seriously shy if you couldn't sing in the bath!

When I started out around 30 and a bit years ago, I just had to sing, but I got very nervous, with my knees knocking (literally -- it made it hard to get on and off stage, even if Isat down to sing). Confidence grows with experience.

But nerves isn't the same as shyness: do you mean you feel you don't wnat to push yourself forward, even though you really want to sing? Force yourself! Remember that brave people are NOT people without fear, they are people who carry on DESPITE their fear. Or out yourself in the others' position: if someone wanted to do it but felt they might not be good enough, you'd encourage them, wouldn't you? So we encourage you: even if you're not excellent yet, you'll improve with practise and experience.

Steve

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: GUEST,Bob Dylan
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 05:24 AM

Just take inspiration from me

Voice isn't everthing - sometimes it's content, combination of voice & guitar, ability to transform a song into a story, ability to transfix an audience

Unfortunately it means getting away from the 8 track & singing to people

Concentrate on breathing & phrasing - these seem to go out of the window when you're confronting an audience

Writing your own songs is a bonus - makes you unique

Don't worry about being banal - that's popular & easy for other people to join in choruses

Must go Ramona wants her feet rubbing

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: smallpiper
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 05:25 AM

Join in the courus's of songs at sing-a-rounds and such like and gradually increase your volume as you begin to realise that no one is listening to you anyway. Then start singing to someone (if you pick someone who isn't sure of the words you can do it on the pretence of teaching them)this will help your confidence. Then its just a case of feeling the fear and doing it anyway. If you cock up on the first attempt you will find that people are very forgiving and it will increase your confidence when you listen to feed back from others. Just don't expect to be brilliant the first time you do it.

Oh and good luck.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Noreen
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 05:49 AM

Find a sympathetic someone who will give you constructive advice.

It is largely a matter of practice, practice, practice as you say, like any instrument you need to learn to use it efficiently- and tips from those who have been there before, and know what they're listening for and how to improve, can be extremely useful.

If you want to send me a recording I'll be happy to make some suggestions.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: GUEST,minky
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 06:26 AM

its also a matter of feeling entitled to sing in public. There is a tendency to feel that other people are somehow "proper singers". Well - as soon as you start then you are a "proper singer" too.
Its a confidence trick - feign confidence initially, and it will become real confidence after a while.
It works.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 06:34 AM

All of the above is absolutely correct. All I can add is to emphasize that, like all new ventures, it just takes breaking through the initial resistance- that little extra burst of adrenalin that will get you to open your mouth and let the song begin. Try it out in front of some sympathetic friends first- you'll be warmed by their encouragement!

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: GUEST,Vince
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 06:50 AM

Well i'm 52 and recently finally plucked up the courage to get 'up there' and sing (on the bais of, and hoping that, you're never too old to start). Always fancied trying after years of joining in the choruses. I was nervous as hell but just shut me eyes and did it. I sing un-accompanied. The reception was quite good and next time i went to the 'singer's night', i was kindly asked if i wanted to do a couple, so that was encouraging. Mind, on one occasion i froze completely but the reaction was 'don't worry it happens to us all' - so there you go (hope the 'Pied Piper was'nt in the audience).
So Tone, go for it!!

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: sweetfire
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 07:28 AM

Try to just sing to one person (or thing) helps! Block out everything else in the room and just pretend that there is only that one person there, nobody else. It's the fact that a lot of people are looking at me that makes me freeze when trying to sing. But if im only looking at one person, then ya think oh well whats the big deal...!! But the best thing to do is just simply practice!!!
Hope it all helps, and good luck for the future.

oh, and if you cock up (like i usually do) just keep going and laugh it off at the end!

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: GUEST,Mary Humphreys
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 08:05 AM

The answer to your question is: you should want to sing a particular song because you can't bear that people don't know it and/or you just want to let the whole world hear this wonderful song with its amazing story.
Get wrapped up in the song as you sing it. Close your eyes and 'see' the story unfold like a movie.
I guarantee that if you feel like that about a song, shyness will melt away after the first line or two, as you sink into the storytelling. It always works for me!

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Pied Piper
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 08:18 AM

Hi T-Bone
I used to get terrible stage fright; it would make me feel like I was about to throw up.
What you have to do to get over this fear is to keep singing in public in a supportive atmosphere. Slowly your fear response will diminish as nothing terrible happens and eventually it will no longer be a problem.

Good luck
PP

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 08:34 AM

The most singing in public I've done in years and years has been in church, when I go. I've noticed there and in other places that most people are too shy? nervous? ashamed? to open their mouths and SING! Given the level of much popular music today, people who will SING! are rewarded beyond their actual merit.

So if you're willing to SING!, remember us all when you become rich and famous and have groupies hanging all over you.

Seriously, I've noticed that the above is true. And if you are willing to SING!, who knows the song better than you?

The first time I had to get up and speak before an audience of 500+ -- and I've been doing a lot more speaking than singing of late -- I looked around and thought, what's the worst that can happen? They'll laugh at you, right? So get them laughing WITH you, and then if some are laughing AT you you won't be able to tell the difference. So open with humor, salt a little humor throughout the set, and see what happens. Not a lot or they'll think you're a failed standup comic, and watch the blue humor, but it'll help a lot in my experience.

If anyone is going to laugh AT you, make it yourself -- imagine, for instance, that you come on stage, the spotlight hits you, the audience is waiting, and as you pick up your guitar the neck seperates for the box. Yeah, you've got another instrument but what do you do now? The audience KNOWS you've just had a disaster, you're thinking "Oh SH*T!" but without the *, and you want to cry and/or get drunk. So make some sort of crack about last playing with The Who, get out the other instrument, and do it.

I think that most shyness comes from a fear of making a fool of yourself in front of others. Humor can help overcome that, since much humor is about someone making a fool of themselves.

Man, just go out and SING!!

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 08:48 AM

As Noreen says, practice is important, i.e. try it out beforehand; but even more important is practise -- doing it! Practise, practise, practise, and you can't help but improve.

I've seen Mary sing, and she really does watch the story on the inside of her eylids! If it's more comfortable to close your eyes, do so; but if you want to keep them open, that's good too. Eye contact is a very important part of verbal communication -- if someone won't look at you when they speak, you know they are lying. You don't have to look at individuals in the audience; just look at the tops of heads, the back of the room, whatever, and just appear to be looking at them. If you do look directly at anyone in particular, you're likely to embarrass them after a few seconds!

Steve

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: maire-aine
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 09:25 AM

When you start, try to put yourself in a non-threatening situation, where you're not the only performer responsible for entertaining a crowd. When I started, I had been playing way-back-up guitar with a group of other musician who did all of the singing. At the end of a particularly long evening, when everybody else was sung-out, the leader of the group said "We've had it. It's your turn. Don't just sit there, sing something." Well, I'd learned a couple songs in the Irish language from a class I'd taken, so I sang them, and that got me over the hump. After that, I sang at some sessions and open mics, plus some friends invite me to do a couple songs when they're playing at certain places.

I find that it helps to choose song that you realy NEED to sing-- songs that you feel the audience must hear, so you have increased motivation to sing. Know the lyrics backwards and forwards. If you're just learning a song, try it out for one or two friends, but don't take it out in front of an audience until you absolutely know it. Even then, you may go west on the lyrics, but you'll be able to recover.

My weakness is in playing guitar while I accompany myself, so I have to practice the guitar part a lot. But I learn the song first, before I add the guitar. And before you start to sing, warm up your voice-- even just singing along on the chorus to other songs will help.

M

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Jon W.
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 10:10 AM

Use your shyness to propel you to do your best. You don't want to make a fool of yourself, right? So use that fear as a motivating factor.

Also, you might try the total stranger approach - my first song circle experience was on vacation, thousands of miles from home, among people whom I'll probably never see again - though I wish I could, it turned out so well. I went home and organized a song circle locally - again, the in first meeting everyone was a total stranger to me. If I'd wanted to quit then, I could have. But it turned out so well I've kept it going on and off for three years.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 10:33 AM

I'd agree with all the above. I went back to singing three years ago after a break of thirty odd years. Went to a singaround at a local pub and joined in the choruses. Did that for a few weeks and then a guy called Keith (hi Keith, if you look at this)encouraged me to do one myself. The first one was extremely nerve-racking and, looking back, must have sounded dreadful, but I kept on going and now find that this is an essential part of my life.

Listen to those you trust, if someone tells you that something didn't
sound quite right ask why and try and correct it. I still get nervous so keep my crib book with me, although now a lot of the songs I know by heart.

I'd agree with Mr Dylan - popular and banal appeal because people like to sing along. I have written one song myself but rarely sing it because it needs a guitar accompaniment and my guitar playing leaves an awful lot to be desired - that's why I concentrated on the singing. My music teached at school always taught us to breath propoperly, right the way down in your abdomen, and this does help a great deal.

Have fun with your singing.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 07:03 PM

I still get nervous after being on stage in some way shape or form for more than 20 years. I get paid, I love it, I get excited, I crave it, but I still get the butterflies as well.

So, the thing I do now is focus on the other things...the pay, the love of it, the excitement, the yearning, and I let the butterfiles take care of themselves.

One thing that definitely helps is to screw up, and screw up big, and then laugh it off. Once you have a big gaff (and you will, anyone who stands on a stage is gonna mess up eventually), and survive it, it will not seem like such a big deal ever again. When the pangs of fear go away, so do many of the gaffs, as it really is a self fulfilling prophecy. If you're nervous about messing up, the nerves will make you mess up.

Play at least the first few times in front of a crowd you feel close to, and can trust. Maybe you should intentionally screw the pooch in front of said crowd so they can laugh it off with you. Nothing like laughing with friends to make one relaxed.

Good luck!

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 07:04 PM

Find a friend that doesn't mind listening, or joining in. I was rather shy until one of my fellow bootcampers (many moons ago) joined with me singing two part harmony Simon and Garfunkel (acapella, no instruments in bootcamp other than marching band). The rest of my squad soon began requesting songs. If we knew them we gave them a stab. It felt great and was good for morale. I don't know about the eight track. You might try dropping a dime at a local recording studio. You'll get a much better idea of how you sound and what you might need to work on.
Stay away from songs with tongue twisters or mondegreens.
A song that really moves you is a good place to start but look out for the sad ones. I still can't always make it through Darcy Farrow (Damn that horse!)without the throat choking up and the tears flowing.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 08:04 PM

I have a weird problem in that I used to sing a lot on stage (Gilbert and Sullivan, Broadway musicals, etc.), but ever since I have taken up folk music, I cannot sing at all while playing an instrument (guitar or banjo). For some reason every single thing I know evaporates, I can barely hold a tune, etc. This happens in the comfort of my home, with teacher, you name it. Don't know why, but it will certainly keep me from ever doing my thing in public. Maybe my brain is overloaded, or it is too open (not quite on a "stage"), whatever.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 08:45 PM

Peter:

You may find that this lessens as you get so comfortable with the playing of a song that you can take your attention off the instrument. Otherwise you're sort of doing what Stanislavski described as "impossible -- multiply 7 times 129 while lifting the corner of a piano" (probably a bad paraphrase. See what happens when you get so confident at one particular song that you like that the playing of chords is second nature, transparent.
If that doesn't turn the trick...oh, I mean do the trick, sorry ... I'd recommend going off into the high hills or deep woods and hollering the lyrics at the top of your lungs, many times over. Seriously!

A

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 09:15 PM

Doesn't seem to happen, Amos ol' buddy. I have sung many a song a hundred hundred times, and when I start to play it for anyone, it disappears from my brain (drives Rick, my long-suffering teacher, to distraction). A unique block, I think -- I can lecture for hours without notes, for example.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Bert
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 09:42 PM

-and my guitar playing leaves an awful lot to be desired- So does mine Jacqui, but I do it anyway 'cos I'm a singer. When I fluff a chord, I just grin and carry on. When things go really bad I just put my guitar down and carry on without it. No one seems to mind.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 10:14 PM

Peter T., it sounds like the problem isn't nerves, it's playing and singing at the same time.

I have the very same problem trying to sing while playing the Doumbek. *But*, I can play the bodhran and sing at the same time.

What I figured out was that I learned the doumbek alone, and never tried to sing along with it while I was in the actual "learning" stages. I *did*, however, sing along as I learned the bodhran, and so trained the synapsis to do both along the way. I still cannot play that damned doumbek while singing. Good thing there isn't much call for it in my current band.

Might take a total retraining of the grey matter for you to do both. Again, sounds like it may not be nerves at all.

Subject: RE: Overcoming shyness in singing
From: GUEST,T-Tone
Date: 16 Jul 03 - 12:22 AM

Wow! What a terrific response from all of you. And if that was the real Bob Dylan - well I will just pretend it was - awesome. I HAVE felt the need to sing songs that move me. It's fascinating to hear all of your thoughts echoing some of mine - the idea that it takes courage and or naivete - the potential inevitability that one chooses songs that hopefully they ARE suited for - the idea that hey someone has got to sing this damn song, so it sees the light of day again. The idea that song selection and conviction in the way it's sung, may go a distance in winning people's ears......Thanks a ton for the spot-on insights. These were ideas I'd thought of too but didn't know the extent they could be echoed by other singers...T-Tone