BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries

Subject: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: Janie
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 12:54 PM

Amos has already mentioned in another thread that the US dropped the A-Bomb on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945. On August 6, 1787 the Constituional Convention in Philadelphia began debating the proposed articles of the US Constition, and on August 6, 1965, Lyndon Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act of l965 into law.

Seems like a good day for we Americans to reflect on what we say we value, and on how well our actions, both personally and as a country, engender those values.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: Padre
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 05:42 PM

August 6 is the Feast of the Transfiguration - the date on which the Church celebrates the appeance of the Lord in glory during His earthly life.

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: Gareth
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 06:35 PM

Fair comment Padre - speaking from the civilized side of the pond, when has the writing of the US of A constitution been a source of celebration, after all they keep on having to amend it !

Now if the American Rebellion had btought down Lord North's Government I might be persueded to support it !

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 08:08 PM

But it did bring down North's government. He and his'n aren't in power, are they?

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: Janie
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 08:15 PM

Gareth,

Your comment is intriguing. I think I don't understand how you have interpreted my post. Probably because I have a very provencial(sp.) experience and don't really have a clue about the paradigm through which some one in Great Britian views the USA or its people.

I will clarify the thinking behind my original post. Before I do that, however, I wonder if you might let me know how you interpreted it. You would be providing me with a valuable education.

This may not be a discussion anyone but me is particularly interested in. If you would rather, pm your response.

Thanks,

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: Amos
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 11:02 PM

Gareth:

We do not amend it because we have to. We amend it because we are free so to do; and because it can be made more perfect and accepts change.

The notion of a constitution capable of change, and still capable of enduring, and yet still reflecting the good of those who live by it, is quite worth celebrating. A lot easier than protecting it, too!


A

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 07 Aug 03 - 08:10 PM

Make that 4 anniversaries. It's when I was conceived because my parents knew my father would [barring mishap] come home safely from the Pacific Theatre.

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 06:42 PM

Capernicus

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: Gareth
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 07:09 PM

Janie - Sorry, possibly a bit of sarcasm on my part - but there is a school of thought in the UK that the US of A was the prime example of a colony getting independance before it was mature enough to cope with self govenance.

But as history goes - well :-

1/. Lend lease

2/. The Nutrality Patrol - "Did you have a Brother on the Rueben James"

3/. The Marshall Plan

Some 60 ish years ago a British Army Officer, who had started out as a second luetenant (commissioned from the ranks) in Normandy - and by May 1945 was commanding his Anti-Tank Battery (dead mens shoes), was informed that they were to requip, retrain, and be ready for service in the Pacific. He was not looking forward to this, neither were his soldiers. He welcomed the Japanese surrender.

Just a thought, did the use of Atomic Bombs in Japan actually save more lives than they cost ???? Did they provide overwhelming evidence that enabled the the peace faction in Japan to surender ????

Gareth

Oooops - sorry thats not politically correct !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 07:24 PM

There was an interesting opinion piece about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings by James Carroll in the Boston Globe this week, that has been reprinted at Common Dreams. The title of the article is "America's Habit of Revenge".:

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0805-03.htm

Among other things, Carroll says:

''Having found the bomb, we have used it.'' These are words spoken by President Truman in a radio address to the American people on the evening of Aug. 9, the day a second bomb fell on Nagasaki. ''We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare.''

President Truman, and others who justified the bomb, would rarely speak this way again - a direct articulation of revenge as a main motivation for the overwhelming destruction of the Japanese cities. In his radio remarks, Truman went on to add the other justifications: ''We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans. We shall continue to use it until we completely destroy Japan's power to make war. Only a Japanese surrender will stop us.'' But even the surrender, when it came, would prompt after-the-fact controversy, since, clinging to the emperor, it wasn't unconditional. If we accepted Japan's hedged surrender after the atomic bomb, why wouldn't we accept it before?"

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 12:28 AM

And then there are these other notorious and scandalous Republican Party anniversaries on August 8th:

1968 Richard Nixon was nominated for president at the Republican National Convention in Miami Beach. Later that day, Nixon chose Maryland Gov. Spiro T. Agnew to be his running mate.


1973 Vice President Spiro T. Agnew branded as ''damned lies'' reports he had taken kickbacks from government contracts in Maryland and vowed not to resign.

And then, irony of irony, on the anniversary of his nomination, came the biggest scandal of all:

Nixon Resigns

Ah, the good old days.

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 08:21 AM

I once asked a young Irish lass, very antiwar, very Green, and very intelligent, if, given these criteria, she would have used the atomic bomb on Japan:

1. an estimated million-plus casualties on the Allies side, and at least three times that among the Japanese;
2. knowledge that the militarists were training civilians to fight to the death, using sticks and mass attacks against M-1s and machine guns;
3. a knowledge on your part that the Bomb was a big bang and not much else knowledge about it;
4. a certainty that the war would continue for a least another year if the invasion was made, with the continued drain on ALL countries involved;
5. the near-certainty that Japan would be laid waste, in all areas and throughout the islands, and wouldn't be rebuilt for a very, very long time.

She answered almost without hesitation, "I hate myself for this, but I think I'd do it." She went on to say that you have to put the problem into the knowledge that they had at the time, not what we have since learned. She also pointed out that Dresden, among other German cities, suffered far more damage and deaths from conventional bombs and wondered if the "chest-beating" (her words) didn't come from some sort of warped effort to deny racism.

She was 14. A very smart young woman.

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 08:20 PM

She sounds like a 14 year old, but not all that intelligent to me. Especially since she couldn't see the the phony scenario your concocted to get her to doubt her own judgment and instincts.

You should be ashamed of yourself for such a ruse Rapaire.

BTW, based upon your little list, I'd also say you don't know jack about what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 09:41 PM

Guest,

Since you have, in your own inimitable way, reduced a discussion to an argumentem ad hominem, I shall respond to your last post in a similar vein.

The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki brought World War II to an end and permitted my father to enjoy Christmas, 1945, with his wife and infant son. It permitted him to father three other children before, four and one half years later, he was killed in a work accident. This is enough for me.

Subject: RE: BS: 8/6-Three US Anniversaries
From: Fiolar
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 08:52 AM

A rather sad tale which I heard many years ago goes something like this. A survivor of the Hiroshima bombing, with all his possessions destroyed decided to move to his relatives' home in guess where? Yes - Nagasaki.