BS: the nation-state and refugees/resettlers

Subject: BS: the nation-state and refugees/resettlers
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 20 Aug 03 - 10:48 AM

I will be taking part in a debate about how refugees & resettlers show up problems related to the break down of the nation-state, and I was wondering if anyone has any ideas ?

Subject: RE: BS: the nation-state and refugees/resettlers
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 20 Aug 03 - 10:49 AM

as a 'rats deserting the sinking ship' type of symptom? or 'victims fleeing oppression' ?

Subject: RE: BS: the nation-state and refugees/resettlers
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 03 - 10:53 AM

When unemployment is high and the economy sucks, as we have going on now, people can get ugly and scared, blaming refugees for everything including job loss, the cost of anything, etc. They become convenient scapegoats. I guess that's an obvious example, but it is unfortunately one I hear frequently, esp. this time of year when we have a lot of harvesters come up from Mexico.

Subject: RE: BS: the nation-state and refugees/resettlers
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 20 Aug 03 - 10:59 AM

Perhaps the state is incapable of controlling situations within their geographic boundaries, allowing the situation to exist whereby refugees must flee their country. However once they have left they are unwelcome in other states.

Subject: RE: BS: the nation-state and refugees/resettlers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Aug 03 - 04:53 PM

The nation state means drawing frequently arbitrary borders, and if you come from one side you're a refugee, or an economic mkigrant or an asylum seeker or whatever, and if you come from the other side you aren't. Even if the reason you have come is exactly the same.

Here in Europe the extension of the European Union eastward means thta people who up to now have come across all the hassles like that will have the right to come here and look for work, or escape persecution of one sort or another. That's good news.

Subject: RE: BS: the nation-state and refugees/resettlers
From: GUEST,Bex McK
Date: 21 Aug 03 - 04:02 AM

In a lot of western countries, we have declining birth rates, aging populations, and shortages of skilled workers including nurses, doctors, engineers, etc. Many refugees and asylum seekers are actually very well educated people, or seek to become so. They might be able to contribute substantially to our economies and the richness of our cultural life if we give them the chance.

Remember most Americans were, at one point in history, refugees.

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: the nation-state and refugees/resettlers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Aug 03 - 04:36 AM

And the rest were economic migrants of one sort or another. Or descendants of economic migrants.

In fact that applies to just about everyone in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: the nation-state and refugees/resettlers
From: GUEST,Redhorse at work
Date: 21 Aug 03 - 08:38 AM

"How can you keep on moving unless you migrate too.
They say that you must keep moving but migrate you must not do.
The only reason I'm moving and the reason that I roam
Is to find a new location and build myself a home....."

Subject: RE: BS: the nation-state and refugees/resettlers
From: Amos
Date: 21 Aug 03 - 10:40 AM

Suggested reading: Grapes of Wrath; the nation-state of California was completely bewildered by the influx of homeless seeking work during the Depression.

A

Subject: RE: BS: the nation-state and refugees/resettlers
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 21 Aug 03 - 11:20 AM

In small quantities, immigrants provided needed influx of ideas and perspectives. In excess, there are too many to safely assimilate, and instead immigrant groups form distinct minority groups, which can lead to political factionalization. It's not that bad in America, where enough wealth is located in the hands of the Caucasian population to keep them in control regardless of demographics, but it could lead to long-term problems when everyone else gets upset with the dominance of rich white people. Even if immigrants are of the same ethnic and cultural background, as Amos suggested, simply dealing with large numbers of people with little capital, especially in an already poor market, can strain economic capabilities.