BS: Driving Tests in the USA

Subject: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 11:28 AM

A British friend of mine living in New York is about to take his driving test, as his British licence is valid for only 12 months in the States.

He asked me about my experience in my driving test in Florida, but it struck me that regulations may vary from State to State and that what happens in Florida may well not happen in New York.

FWIW, my test in Florida was in two parts, first a twenty-question multiple choice questionnaire, followed by a cursory ten minute "test" which consisted of a leisurely drive round the mall parking lot (never once venturing onto the actual highway) and backing into a (measured) parking space.

Maybe it was so cursory because I already held a valid British licence, but I am still curious to know whether the driving test in America is a standard procedure or whether it varies from State to State.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 11:44 AM

It varies widely from state to state. Most states (maybe all) publish booklets which you MUST read before the written test to have much chance of passing....and the driving portion can be anything from cursory to quite stringent.

Perhaps someone from New York can comment on what to expect there.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 01:33 PM

I am 72, and have never in my life taken a driving test for a driver's license. And yes, I do have a full, valid driver's license, and have had one for 57 years.

How? In my youth, in Minnesota, at 15 you could send your application in, and in due course you were a licensed driver. I did that, and didn't learn to drive until I was 25!

When I moved to Indiana in 1960, because I was a licensed Minnesota driver I only had to take the minimal written test to get an Indiana driver's license, which I have maintained ever since.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Amergin
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 01:34 PM

Also it varies widely on who is administering the test....two testers from the same office can do different things....one do a leisurely drive around a parking lot....another would have one do a drive around town in traffic...

As for the written test....here in Oregon much of what is on the test is just common sense anyways....

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: open mike
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 02:09 PM

the trick questions are ones that refer to specifics
such as " when selling a car one must notify the DMV
within______days regarding the change of ownership"
I would recommend gleaning as much as possible from
the booklet...especially small details--that is
where they will try to trip you up!
things like the speed limit in a school zone is____

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Allan C.
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 02:17 PM

The Virginia test is also in two parts. The driving and parking portion varies somewhat (as Amergin mentioned above) from official to official. The written test consists mostly of common sense stuff. However, there were two questions that appeared on the written test that often stumped folks. One had to do with who has the right-of-way at a four-way intersection. The other, for reasons I will never understand, asked for the top legal speed of a school bus. Another thing that comes in handy is knowing the safe stopping distances, i.e., safe vehicle intervals at various speeds.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 02:35 PM

Depends on what part of New York State your friend is in. If the friend is in New York City he's better off not driving at all. There is more than adequate rapid transit available there. Someone living barely outside the city may have to negotiate trains and busses, but still is set pretty comfortably. When I worked in NYC for several summers I got tired of kids breaking into my pickup and I parked it at my Great Aunt's home in Ansonia, Connecticut. On the rare occasions when I needed it I took a train to New Haven and a bus to her house.

I did need a New York State driver's license, but didn't want to reliquish my Washington drivers license, so I started from scratch and took the tests. I could have just turned in the one for the other but my insurance was based on my home address in Washington on that license. I think to expedite things I rented a car from a driver training program in the city and took the test in their car after answering the written part. This was a couple of decades ago so things may have changed.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: brid widder
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 04:10 PM

I am very envious... I am trying to learn to drive in the UK... I've failed my test 3 times so far.... and every year or so the test is made more difficult. Our test is in two parts... the theory test is computerised and covers the Highway Code... rules of the road, road markings signs etc also hazard awareness and recently vehicle maintainance. The part I have failed is the practical test...is 40 minutes of, in my experience absolute toture, driving in all sorts of traffic conditions on fast roads and side roads and demonstrating several manoeuvres. How every difficult it is I think it is necessary... you can't be tto safe a driver... wish me luck I'm nearly there ... I hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 04:27 PM

I've taken the test in a number of US states, because of job transfers. I'd say that the thing to be most careful about on the written test is the blood alcohol content required to prove you're drunk!! It varies from state to state, and it is always on the written test. The road test is no big deal. I think I'm still grandfathering off the one I took in 1964 in Salt Lake City...a leisurly drive around the fairgrounds (which were closed at the time), with no other cars any where to be seen. Also, remember that cars in the US drive on the other (aka wrong) side of the street.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 05:13 PM

"...........remember that cars in the US drive on the other (aka wrong) side of the street.........."

Now you tell me....:-))

SRS, I am intrigued by your holding two licences simultaneously. My understanding was that such a feat was impossible because in order for the licence to be valid, your place of residence must be in the State which has granted the licence. I suppose if you had two (or more homes in two (or more) different States, then it would be possible, however.

Amergin's comment about different testers from the same office is a valid one. Also, I cannot believe that a seventeen year old would have gotten away with such a cursory practical as I did.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 05:43 PM

In the U.S. driving tests vary from state to state, office to office, tester to tester and driver to driver. But, on the whole, we are told that driving tests in the U.K. are infinitely harder to pass even for the most basic grade of license.

This restults in U.K. drivers being far superior to those in the U.K. We drove in England for three weeks earlier this year and, on single track roads, we were virtually never able to pull into a wide spot first. The oncoming driver always assessed the situation before we could and either pulled over or flashed his lights to tell us he had a place to pull into.

The fact that we managed to avoid being involved in an accident is a testimonial to British drivers as we tried to cope with roundabouts, ridiculously narrow roads, driving on the left, and being lost most of the time.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: open mike
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 06:17 PM

the test given here has 3 different versions...'
if you have to do a re-test , they will give you
a different set of questions. i believe they do
let you take the test home when yo ahve completed
it. there are a few on-line places where you can
take tests if you have been ticketed for an infraction
(such as speeding) and have to take a test to have
points erased from your record.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 06:26 PM

Murray, I did essentially have two addresses for several years. I was a seasonal park ranger, going to New York in April to work at Ellis Island, and returning to Washington in November to go to the university for winter quarter. It took me a while to finish my degree that way, but I ended up without owing for student loans, etc, and when I graduated I had a lot of work experience. I kept my legal address, where I voted, in Washington. I think it was a gray area in New York, to have both licenses, but I had it as a formallity--I rarely ever drove work vehicles at work in NYC.

Art, I think the threat of withholding federal highway funds has forced most states to conform to the federal standard of .08 as the standard of blood alcohol to document impairment. The question may still be there, but in most instances, this is now the correct answer.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 06:31 PM

I always thought US drivers were horribly incompetent on the average.

Then I got to the UK and I was sure.

The most easily noticed difference is on the motorways/interstates. Where there are three or more lanes in one direction, the drivers sort themselves out! Slowest on the inside lane (left in UK); faster in the center, fastest in the left. Which is how it should be. In the US, the slowest ones seem always to go to the middle lane, and don't seem to notice when people are passing them on both sides at the same time. I guess in the UK you just aren't supposed to pass on the inside, ever. In the US you have to.

Forgive my rant. I drove up from the Boston area this morning.

Nobody in the area of Massachusetts inside of 495 should have a driver's license. None of them. Ever.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 06:31 PM

Because the US is so very big and people in some parts of the country (Wyoming, etc.) depend on driving, there is pressure on the jurisdictions to NOT make the test too difficult...which leads to many people bring on the road with inadequate training, sub-par knowlege, and just plain bad attitudes. I wish they WOULD make it harder for kids to hop into a car at 16-17 after basic drivers education and be terrorizing the streets before they have much experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 07:53 PM

SRS: that law, needed though it may be, isn't effective until this October. The BAC rules are still a mixed bag. Information here.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 08:39 PM

The one test they don't seem to have anywhere is perhaps the one that's most important. The one about controlling yourself, rather than just controlling your vehicle.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 09:02 PM

Here in New Hampshire my 15 3/4 yr old daughter doesn't need a license to drive. At 15 1/2 kids can drive here as long as they are with a legal guardian & that the guardian has a valid license, go figure. I can't figure out the part where if I as an adult don't have a license, am I OK to drive with my wife who's licensed but not a legal guardian or would it have to be my 74 yr old mother who also has a license who because she's my mother might qualify as a legal guardian under some kind grandfathering clause. State motto, "Live Free Or Die".

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Allan C.
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 10:00 AM

In the US the reason the middle lane is bogged with slower drivers is because it is the "lane of indecision and unfamiliarity". Lots of folks choose it because they don't want to go faster, but also because they are trying to avoid merging traffic and what I call "lane traps": Most especially in urban areas there are countless exit lanes that seem to appear out of nowhere. These are lengthy bits of roadway that eventually lead to two or more exits. People in the right lane are often sucked into these if they aren't familiar with the territory. Then they become inextricably bound for parts unknown.

I am bookmarking this thread so that I can compare notes in the coming months while I study to get my UK license. Quite honestly, from what I've seen so far, the UK rules of the road and traffic patterns seem much more sensible in many respects.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 10:34 AM

Here's a comprehensive set of page of theory questions from the Jersey Drivers and Vehicles Standards Departments site.

The Channel Islands aren't in the UK, but the rules are the same, and it's a good checklist.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 10:44 AM

While US driving tests are still rediculously simple they have gotten a bit more stringent over the years.

Fourty-five years ago my legally blind father and his even blinder friend got licenses in Wichita, Kansas by walking into the Moter Vehicle Bureau, whipping off their sunglasses and saying to the sweet young thing behind the counter, "The glare outside is terrible,would you mind filling out the forms for us." She did. No road test was required, and they got their licenses. Then, since my Dad's friend was a columnist for the local paper, they wrote an editorial denouncing the lax requirements and lobbying for more stringent ones. (We had just moved from England and my parents were appalled at the terrible drivers on the road and the highway death statistics).

KateG

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Arnie
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 11:05 AM

What a shock I got first time I went to the US and drove in Los Angeles. I had to get from the airport (North LA) to Anaheim (South LA). The first problem was coping with an auto gearbox with the gear stick behind the steering wheel. Having sorted that out, I didn't know what an Interstate sign looked like (Motorways in the UK have blue signs) so I completely missed the Interstate and drove through the whole of LA from North to South, block by block (this following a 12-hr night flight!). What really got me was that you can turn right at a red light! Now that one really took some working out, usually prompted by some helpful chap behind me banging furiously on the horn! Lack of roundabouts didn't help at intersections and when I eventually got onto an Interstate I wish I hadn't! I never realised that turn-offs could appear on either side of the Interstate, so it was hit and miss whether or not I was on the right side of 10 lanes for my turn-off. Still, at least the gas was cheap!!

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 04:05 PM

I've never enjoyed driving through L.A.--I usually try to time it so I'm going through town very late or very early to miss the heaviest traffic. As large as Fort Worth is, you can get across town, or to just about anywhere in it, in about 20 minutes if you use the highways and arterials effectively.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 04:38 PM

As has been mentioned, it is very important that you get the "book" from the state where you are going to get your license. It's the little things that will get you.

Since all states recognize (reciprocally) any license from any other state, there is no good reason to "relicense" unless you have changed your legal residence. ALL states, technically, require you to surrender any previous license. It is NOT legal to be licensed by more than one state at any one time, although it is fairly commonly done.

It may have been changed by now, but a few years ago (actually quite a few years) a few, mostly northeastern states, required the knowledge of "hand signals" that differed from those used by the majority of the states.

Wisconsin, as an example from a few years back, required that the person taking the test be accompanied by another licensed driver. Since you are required to surrender any prior valid drivers license, in order to take the test; if you flunk the test, you can't drive yourself home - and they WOULD watch you leave to make sure you weren't driving.

A few states give a different license notation for use of manual transmission automobiles, and you may be required to take the test in "your" vehicle with a manual transmission to avoid a restriction that would make it "illegal" to drive a "stick shift" if you've only been licensed for "automatics."

There has been a lot of recent progress in making things more uniform, but the only way to know what you need to know is to read the book for the area in which you intend to take the test.

New York and Massachusetts are probably the two "toughest" places to survive in traffic, and their rules, and testing practices are somewhat "unique" in the US. (Los Angeles has heavy traffic, but the roads are fairly straight and wide.) Many long term "natives" in these areas make a practice of applying for tesing in a more "suburban" town, where "local" policies on testing may be more "friendly" than in the larger metropolitan areas. Your friend should ask a native.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 06:19 PM

"A few states give a different license notation for use of manual transmission automobiles"

You mean it's legal in other places to drive a car with a manual gearbox having passed a test on an automatic?

That's totally crazy. When I switched to a car with a manual box it was a long and uphill struggle to learn to drive the different way, and I failed the new test the first time I took it. And thank God for that, because I'd have probably killed someone if they'd let me loose on the road until I knew my stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 07:22 PM

McG

You've got to realize that many of our younger ones learn to drive on a tractor - all manual. They might be surprised to find that they're limited to automatic only, if they took the wrong kind of car for the test.

In some states, it is legal to drive any car without regard to which type you used for the test. I haven't heard of any that won't cert you for auto if you test with a manual - although I've heard of some nasty head bumps from those who went for the clutch, which wasn't there in their unfamiliar "auto", and hit the brake instead.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 07:26 PM

Thanks for all the input so far. I would agree with John in Kansas that Massachusetts is one of the the toughest areas to survive in traffic. I put it down to the fact that most of the towns there are old (by US standards) and consequently not designed for modern traffic.

There is one notorious square in Worcester MA which has if I remember correctly nine different exits/entrances with no very clear indication as to who has right of way. I pity anybody who has to negotiate it in the course of their driving test. Boston of course is a nightmare, especially with the "big dig" ensuring that no road has the same characteristics two days running.

Compared to Boston I didn't find New York all that much of a problem even as a novice driver....

One thing I would take issue with in previous postings above is the consensus that the UK has a more sensible system regarding lane priorities . I will admit that the first time I drove on a freeway and was overtaken in the right hand lane it was a culture shock of massive proportions, but after a few weeks I saw the sense in it.

Remember, in the UK there are plenty of Sunday drivers prepared to amble along at 50 mph in the middle lane. Overtaking them in the left hand lane strikes me as an eminently sensible thing to do. Why not?

Also, the "turn on red" struck me as a good idea, which contributes greatly to the freeflow of traffic. Since returning from the US there are few things which annoy me more than waiting to turn left, with the road perfectly clear, and having to wait until the light turns green.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 07:42 PM

The middle lane is for overtaking, and so is the outside lane. That's the rule, and it seems a sensible one to me. You know where you are.

People driving in either of these lanes when they aren't in the process of overtaking slower traffic shouldn't have a licence to start with.

It seems to me that overtaking on both sides, you just risk turning it into a game of dodgems, with people going at the full limit or above in all three lanes, and increased dangers of collisions with vehicles that aren't in such a hurry, or which are restricted to a lower limit.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 08:35 PM

Having had some experience of the difficulty involved in obtaining a driver's license in Europe (not only are the tests tougher but you have to take a number of expensive driving lessons), I must say that here in the US they pretty much give them away, which creates a lot of bad, inexperienced, or reckless drivers on the roads.

In California, there is a big problem with illegal immigrants driving without licenses or insurance, and causing lots of often fatal crashes. For this reason there is now a bill being proposed to give licenses to illegal immigrants... which would in effect make them legal, since the driver's license is the most commonly used form of ID. Weird, or what?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: LadyJean
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 12:28 AM

I got my license on December 20, 1997. Subtle hint: I am considerably more than 21.
In Pennsylvania, one passes a computerized test on rules of the road to get a learner's permit, which allows one to take driving lessons, and practice driving with someone else in the car. (An even dozen "friends" said they would let me drive with them. None of them meant it.)
We no longer have State Troopers as examiners, which is a fine thing. They liked to make the examinees nervous. It made it more fun for them.
Note to Brits, I flunked my test once for driving up the wrong side of the street.
Note to everyone, before successfully passing my test, I ate a big liverwurst sandwich, a big mistake on a nervous stomach. I was worried, when I took the test, but not about my driving. (Yes I kept it down!) But there's a lot to be said for having something else to worry about when you're taking the test.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 03:26 AM

I'm with Brid Widder on this one.......my test is Thursday and this will be number 5 and it is torture. They have now added a few maintainence questions which means I'll probably have to wrestle with the bonnet of my instructors Micra..still that'll take up the 40 mins!!!!!!!!
Wish me luck
Diva

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: nickp
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 04:12 AM

Well, I've done a fair bit of driving on numerous trips to the US and have gleaned most of what I need to know from asking people and watching (school buses, lights/wipers etc) but.... I really would like to have a booklet which covers the basics in case I've missed something. Not worried about State specifics because I tend to err on the cautious side and don't want in depth because I'm only ever visiting.

Any suggestions?

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 05:49 AM

Do you have to take different tests in the US to drive different types of vehicle ? In the UK there are a whole series of different groups, each of which needs a separate driving test. For example if you have a full car driving license, you would still be required to take another test (multipart) to drive a motorcycle and you could still be restricted on engine size depending on which parts of the test you had passed.

Public Service Vehicles (buses/coaches) and Heavy Goods Vehicles (trucks) need special tests and licenses and there are even different levels of the HGV license for rigid body and articulated etc. There are groups for tracked vehicles and I can remember that for a trolley bus licence you had to be able to turn corners without de-wiring.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 07:30 AM

Try here..

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: nickp
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 07:47 AM

Hi Art, the search page came up but without any word to search on so no results - what word(s)do you recommend?

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 08:31 AM

Sorry, it was supposed to go directly to this book: How to Pass a Road Test for Your Driver's License by Gerald G. Patterson.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: nickp
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 08:47 AM

Sounds hopeful, thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: PageOfCups
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 02:28 PM

When I road tested for my first driver's license in Florida (the very day of my 16th birthday), I managed to pass by only one point. What cost me was parallel parking. Hey, in the 70's in Florida, NOBODY worried about parallel parking. You found a nice long stretch of empty curb, pulled in at the beginning and parked at the end. None of this jockeying back and forth stuff. :-) I told the examiner that I couldn't parallel park. She insisted I try. Ten minutes of back-and-forth later, she admitted that I was right. Minus 15 points.

The good news is, now I'm VERY good at parallel parking. I lived in Washington DC for a year. If you can't fit your car into a space that's maybe only a foot longer than your car, you're going to spend a lot of time driving around looking for spaces... And with the ticket Nazis they've got in DC, you also get VERY good at judging how far you are from the curb.

PoC
who is glad to be driving on the wide streets of San Diego!

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 05:16 PM

PageOfCups--In Philadelphia, you had to be able to parallel park in a space that was a foot shorter than your car--

As to difficult driving tests, I remember having to parallel park in San Franscisco on a one of the more notorious hills with a manual transmission--the trick was to know which way the wheels were supposed to be headed when parking on an incline--this also differs from state to state--another hill related question that varies from state to state is the number of vehicles that may accumulate behind a slow moving vehicle before the driver must pull over.

For more info on this subject, most, if not all states have extensive Motor Vehicle information on line--Marlyand Motor Vehicle Administration I was delighted to find that I could renew my tags on line, including a download of a printable temporary registration.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Sep 03 - 02:51 AM

Sorry. On an interstate that has only three lanes I normally travel in the center lane. (If there are four lanes, when I can I travel in the second lane.) The right hand (slowest) lane is absolutely clogged with trucks- on occasion, even they come out into the other lanes when they find themselves behind a panting truck or two.

Where else should I be? Of course I swing left to pass any slow car ahead of me. But as someone mentioned above, the center lane eliminates being forced off at an exit ramp.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving Tests in the USA
From: jonm
Date: 10 Sep 03 - 03:25 AM

Motorcycle tests in the UK used to be conducted with the examiner at the kerb giving instructions to the rider, who goes off, does as told and returns for more instructions. The emergency stop is done by the examiner stepping out in front of the bike as it approaches.

I got lost on my bike test. I was told "first left, first left, first left and you'll get back here" - I must have missed one of the real first lefts; I didn't get back for 20 minutes, having asked for directions twice. The examiner was still there, though.

My father took his bike test the following year and actually ran over the examiner! She stepped in front of the bike for the emergency stop, he skidded on the wet gravel and hit her. She was unhurt, he broke his collar bone, so he asked her to ride his bike back to the test centre. It transpired she had never ridden one, nor did she have any licence other than a car one. My father got his test fee refunded.

Two weeks later, the same woman was knocked over in the city centre - the bike she stepped out in front of wasn't the guy taking the test! She wound up in hospital that time.

Cheers               Jonm