BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.

Subject: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 01:19 PM

What a treat! What a MUDCAT! I opened the mail and there were seven beautifully recorded "Round the Horne" tapes from Micca!!

So what about "Polari".....the secret Gay language used in England during the fifties and sixties. Anyone familiar with it? After reading so much by (and about ) Kenneth Williams, it surprises me how much he protested being seen as a "gay comic" when literally EVERY line he spoke was some kind of queer double entendre.

Thank you Micca.

And thanks kat as well.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 01:29 PM

How bona to vader your eek Rick. Yes there was a book of how to speak this language, I'll have a look to see if it's still around.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: izzy
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 02:00 PM

Some linguist did a study of it recently. It contains Yiddish, eighteenth-century thieves cant, Cockney slang, and Roma dialect as well (or some amazing mixture like that). Saw an article about it in the Guardian.

I think Kenneth Williams objected because he didn't have much choice at the time --there were no real dramatic roles for a bloke like him and he felt (I believe) that the gay stereotypes perpetuated by Julian and Sandy contributed to the lack of public appreciation of gay issues at the time (when you laugh at a group, you don't have to take them seriously enough to register their concerns.) And it was still quite a homophobic time in Britain.

Others will argue that Julian and Sandy did a lot to increase tolerance. Maybe they did. But not enough to prevent Kenneth Williams feeling isolated, and you can understand why having to turn the thing on the basis of which he was discriminated against into a joke weighed on him over time. He didn't write the scripts, as the saying goes...

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: Micca
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 02:00 PM

"Its Mr Gruntfuttock, J Peasmold Gruntfuttock..of the Kingdom of Peasmoldia" and here are the answers to last years questions...
Well, Rick, I will get around to batch 2 as soon as I have some freetime, But As a friend of Gordons (he of the Marine Commando Club, Paddington)You are most welcome, and "how Bona to vada your dolly old eek"again too "OooH but he's Bold...." I didnt send you notice when I posted I wanted them to be a surprise, which I hope they were..

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 08:29 PM

This is gonna be a fun one to read! Good to know the mail got through.:-)

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: Jeanie
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 08:41 PM

Ooh... Fantabulosa !!

Plenty of information and further links on this page:
Polari

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: fat B****rd
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 03:08 AM

Hello, Rick. I'm glad you like the BBC comedies. Well, must troll off to the Gyn with my friend Gordon.........

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 03:18 AM

Polari: the queens' English

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 04:12 AM

Jeanie, many thanks for that link, fascinating stuff.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 01:10 PM

Hope Harvey sees this. He is a Champion of "English used well" and may have an opinion or two. I take your point Isobel, but from the literally millions of words I've read of and about Ken, I don't think he was at all consistant in wanting to present a more balanced public presence. Whenever he got a chance to "play it straight(er)" he camped it up as well.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: harvey andrews
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 06:03 AM

OOOhh Mr Horne!!!
I loved the whole Polari bit. It's like rhyming slang or the wonderfully inventive sub language of Australia. Long may they thrive. What annoys me is people in the media and arts who cannot use their own language in a literate way.
Does anybody else hate the expression "sexed up" when the word exaggerated exists?

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 04:28 PM

Yes Harvey, but exaggerated doesn't sell newspapers. Sad innit!!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 04:14 AM

Fat B*****d. Nice idea to put your photo on the envelope, it was bonar to vadar your jolly old eek! (You don't look that fat... for a Mudcatter!)

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 05:28 AM

Polari wasn't just spoken by gays, it was common among actors and other low types too. Remember in Brighton Rock where (what was his name? Played by Wm Hartnell in the film) metioned Polonius (from Hamlet), and Pinkie thinks he's talking about a polony? (and I don't mean a pork liver sausage.)

And in Walsall, Pelari was one of the ice-cream firms (DiCicco was the other), just to confuse the issue ...

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: GUEST,Shevon Matai
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 01:39 AM

Hi...Im Shevon from Hawaii, writing my paper on Polari....Micca, would like to use maybe one of your "Round The Horne" recordings for my paper please...would appreciate that very very much. Please email me at [e-mail]. Any article and/or book refernce would be very much appreciated...thanks so much....Shevon

Subject: RE: BS: Bonar! Sandy, Jules, Ken and Polari.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 03:43 AM

Shevon - the tapes are available via Amazon - do a search for 'Round the Horne', Kenneth Horne, or Kenneth Williams, Hugh Paddick or Rambling Sid Rumpo.

They may also be able to point you towards books on the same subjects.

You might also try the BBC website, they have a shop that may be able to help.

LTS