BS: Please help me make decent coffee!

Subject: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 11:39 AM

I'm so glad I discovered this forum, as you all might be able to help me with an old, though minor, problem.

My husband and I travel a lot -- and the best coffee in the world is found in Europe and England. I've never been able to match it -- can anyone tell me how to make European coffee in Canada?

(I realize that this will be a bit like asking Texans how to make chili: I'll probably get 650 replies.)


Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 11:55 AM

I can't give specific directions for "European" coffee, but there are several basic things that should be remembered for making "good" coffee to any standard.

First and foremost, the equipment must be CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN! Just casually rinsing the equipment doesn't get rid of the buildup of oils; you need to be sure that the oil residues are removed, because they can taint later pots-worth.

Now, the coffee to be used to make the brew: It's best to get it in the bean, keep it in the freezer if possible, and grind one batch-worth just before brewing.

There are two basic strains or types of coffee raised and sold commercially, Arabica and Robusta. The generally-considered "best" coffees are from the Arabica strains. Robusta coffees have a rougher, rawer flavor. The "best" coffees, such as Blue Mountain, Kona, Columbian are all Arabicas. If you buy commercial blends, look for as high a percentage of Arabicas as possible.

Roast: This is a matter of preference. I expect you would find that the European coffee you want to emulate will be dark roasts, which makes for a more robust (as distinguished from "Robusta") flavor.
General commercial American coffee is much more lightly roasted.

Proportions: I believe in making coffee with less water than the recipe might call for (or conversely, more ground coffee), and adding water after brewing to make the desired volume.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 12:10 PM

Dr. O. is right on the money. You might also try a Google search (making-good-coffee) that will get you a ton of information.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Amos
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 12:11 PM

Add one tablespoon of French Roast grind to your Mister Coffee's usual filter.

Clean cold water.

4 scoops of regular caffeinated coffee to the pot. Then add the tablespooon of French roast.

Well, I like it~!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 12:32 PM

Thanks, all. I was already doing everything Dr. O suggested except looking for a really dark roast. Vienna, perhaps? I'll try it and see what happens.

The funny part of this whole thing is that in my search for European-style coffee, I've developed a reputation among my friends for making really great coffee -- it's just not European enough for me.

I'll start with the addition of the French roast, as suggested by Amos, and if that isn't enough, will switch to a really dark roast.

This experiment should keep me up all night!

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: NicoleC
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 12:34 PM

I'd add that the water is as important as the coffee. If your local water is lousy, your coffee won't be worth a hill of beans. I can recommend a fine Texas company that makes and sells great home water filtration products. I just hook 'em up to the faucet under the sink and forget about it until a get a postcard telling me its time for my annual filter change.

On a related note, I just got an expresso machine. (Just a home steam version -- I KNOW -- but my needs are few.) I haven't played with it yet, as I haven't picked up any good expresso beans yet. Can anyone point me to a good web site for learning how to make good mochas and so forth?

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Amergin
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 12:41 PM

I was going to suggest bottled water just to see if that makes any difference...

we got lousy water here and tried it with bottled water...and it made a helluva difference....

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 01:22 PM

Cleanliness!

Also, use good coffees.

You might try one of the Scandinavian press-to-settle-the-grounds type of coffee makers, too. Read the instructions though, 'cause it ain't your Mr. Coffee.

I understand that a gold coffee filter works best of all, but I can't afford it (and don't drink enough coffee to make it worth while).

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 01:36 PM

In England? Well it can be found. But most of the time it's not what you'll get. Possibly as rare as a decent cup of tea in mainland Europe (where, in my experience, you generally can rely on getting a fair cup of coiffee.)

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 01:39 PM

Again, thanks. I already use filtered water, even though our water here is good, as it makes better coffee (and tea as well). I have a gold coffee filter (somewhere) and will try it, if it fits my coffee maker.

Rapaire's suggestion regarding the Scandinavian press coffee makers is good for our after-dinner coffee, but because my husband gets up at 5:30 a.m., I have a Braun automatic coffeemaker that is set for 5:20 a.m. (If you think for one minute that I'm getting up at 5:15, grinding beans, boiling water, and putting the whole thing in a press, then ... (sputter)... you're wrong!)

Maybe different brands of coffee will help -- I buy the fair trade coffee now, and don't want to go into the Starbuck ripoff thing, but will see what else I can find.

Off shopping -- will try a bit of French roast as my first change.

You're all so nice: thanks very much!

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 04:13 PM

Two things: a lot of people don't know that the water can be too hot. Coffee has both sweet and bitter oils. The bitter are released in very hot water. Bring the water to a boil and let settle before pouring it through. I think the correct temperature is around 180°. If you can't get the coffee you need where you are, there are other places. This one has a good catalog for browsing.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 05:14 PM

I like a variety of coffees, just as I like various teas, beers, and whiskeys....but it is developing that my choice for everyday coffee is Guatamala Antigua. I do NOT buy Starbucks, as I simply cannot taste the purported difference between theirs and beans for $3 per pound less that I can buy at one grocery store. Fortunately, I live in a large metorpolitan area where there is competition, and thus, a choice available.

I use beans I grind myself, fresh, filtered water, and a small (4 cup) brewer that uses a Melitta-type cone filter most days, but have a large non-electric drip cone for company. I know that I don't go to all the trouble some do, but I am willing to bet that 'most' could not pick their pet brew from a row of 10 in a blind sampling (assuming same brand & strength).

I often add a bit (5% maybe) of chickory and sometimes a little 'flavored' beans (vanilla or hazlenut)to my grind, just because I feel like it, but certainly appreciate just plain good coffee.

One thing...I simply do NOT like milk or cream in it, but do add some sugar. All this is just personal preferences, and I will make coffee for others to suit THEIR preferences.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 07:26 PM

Ain't no such thing as decent coffee. It tastes bloody awful and is addictive and bad for your health.

However, it does have a lovely smell...and it's also rather good for doing colonics. You prepared a mild solution of coffee, diluted in warm water, and introduce it into the colon in the usual manner. The body is horrified by the unwarranted toxic invasion and throws the stuff out along with all the other undesirable accumulations from the last ten years of eating hamburger, pizza, and stuff like that. I recommend this technique highly.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 07:34 PM

Little Hawk, that was absolutely horrible!! I'm laughing and choking and gagging all at the same time - I hope you are happy, you monster.

Bill D, I take coffee black, no cream or sugar, so it has to be good. Someone else I was talking with today also suggested a bit of chicory, so I'll try that as well. One thing that does concern me is that all the coffee I've had in Europe and England has been in restaurants, so perhaps they have equipment that is not available to the home kitchen.

Anyway, this is fun -- and I'll let you know tomorrow how the suggestions I'm trying work out.

Again, thanks! As soon as I get it right, you're all invited over for coffee. Just get together the airfare to the west coast of Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 07:48 PM

Heh! Heh! Just the reaction I was hoping for, GUEST. I haven't lost my touch, I guess... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 08:22 PM

Get your beans at Murchie's and don't use bloody chlorinated tap water or one of those Mr. Coffee makers. If it isn't fabulous water to drink, you can't make good coffee with it. Alternately, Thrifty's carries the Kicking Horse brand in various roasts in bean form.

The preferred French technique is a "café filtre", just cone type filter with unbleached paper filter, very fine ground coffee (freshly ground just before making) Water should be a 190 degrees or just off the boil and should be poured in small lifts so as not to flood the grounds and should take two and one half minutes total to pass through the filtre and generate 4 measured cups of coffee (6 ounces each typical).

A good jumping off point for a blend is one third medium roast Columbian, one third medium roast Guatamalan and one third dark French or dark Vienna roast. Try a half pound of this to start off with, then vary the amount of dark roast until you hit your satori.

Drink immediately, do not let coffee stand around, only make as much as you want right then. Besides you loose the benefits of the antioxidants if it is older than a few minutes.

Good luck, it is the world's most worthwhile pursuit. All else in life will disappoint us.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 08:23 PM

"What I want is a proper butt of coffee"...

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Metchosin
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 08:26 PM

Guest 8:22 was me sans cookie. We're coffee nazis in this household.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Metchosin
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 08:32 PM

A bodum works well too, with a more robust mouthfeel. More fine particulate matter in suspension, less efficient use of coffee though, due to the much coarser grind required.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 08:37 PM

A little warning for a Little Hawk. People have died of strong coffee enemas. It was once quite the rage. The cafein (sp?) goes into the blood very fast.

A health note for all coffee drinkers. The number one lung medication in the world, atrovent, is a close relative of cafein. So don't just drink it, sniff it. It's good for you. (Information courtesy of a lung therapist)

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 09:30 PM

I don't drink much coffee, but when I want a cup I want something good. So I keep GOOD coffee in airtight containers, whole roasted bean, in the freezer. I have a grinder -- one of the electric ones that can burn the beans if you don't pulse it -- and make just enough for immediate needs.

Right now I have pure Kona and some true cowboy coffee -- Arbuckle's. Both are excellent.

I use filtered water, of course. The water here is full of minerals; in fact, if you don't dry off right after bathing (not showering) you'll develop a crust and, in time, your entire body will become encrusted with minerals. Bullets bounce off. Eventually, they put you up on a plinth in the town square.

Starbucks -- well, it's coffee. It's overpriced and overrated, but it's coffee. As for the flavored blends, I won't stop you, but if I wanted to drink soda pop I'd drink soda pop.

I try to get a good fair traded coffee when I can, but it can be difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 09:57 PM

People have died of strong coffee enemas You learn something new at the Mudcat every day. Now that would be a death certifucate to frame.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 11:55 PM

Dirty....dirty.....

NEVER...clean the pot or the cups.....

The built-up scum,oil,crud....allows a few transverse moliculus of what some may consider...pervursus retinculitus...to transmulate through the the filters and create an the original brew which Starbucks has tried to emulate ...(but failed) because of archaic health-code laws within the USA....

SO....

Go to Turkey....Iraq, MADrid you want a REAL cup of coffe.

Soma-cerly,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: s&r
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 03:22 AM

Heat the pot, one spoon per person, use boiling water, leave to infuse, put milk in the cup first.

Oops, sorry, that's tea.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 12:16 PM

Although I rarely drink coffee, being a tea person, generally, I subscribe to the whole beans, kept fresh until ground just prior to use approach.

The simplest way to deal with chlorinated water is to put it into an uncovered pitcher for a few hours to allow the chlorine to gas off. The water is then excellent for drinking, making coffee or tea, etc. If you cover the pitcher, the chlorine cannot escape.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 12:18 PM

I almost forgot, filtering, such as with a chemex cone, makes a fine cuppa.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 12:19 PM

Well, I tried Bill D's suggestion of adding French Roast this morning. It did improve the taste a bit, but I think I need to add more. But not till tomorrow, or I'll be too wired to post.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Metchosin, are you from "our" Metchosin? You must be, since you mentioned Thrifty's. I'm from (an admission here) Oak Bay.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 12:26 PM

Metchosin as "guest" had some excellent advice....can't go wrong starting just like that.

I have always been a mixer & blender, even as a kid when I tried to do ALL the possible combinations of Kool-Aid! So I do try variations in coffee & tea...but I try never to lose sight of the basics and the ability to enjoy a simple, freshly ground cup of Colombian or Ethiopian Harrar..etc.
If you boil water separately, do NOT let it boil for any length of time, as you lose oxygen and make the coffee taste 'flat'...that 190° is fine, and pouring it slowly, though it takes a minute, does allow an 'even' saturation of the grounds (and doesn't clog the filter)

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 12:46 PM

pdc!!!! You're drinking coffee????....Behind the Tweed Curtain???

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,p[dc
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 01:01 PM

Ha! I knew there couldn't be more than one Metchosin. How are things in the boonies?

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 01:09 PM

well...for a little backwater filled with harmless cranks, its quite pleasant.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 01:26 PM

I think dying of a strong coffee enema would be sufficient to qualify the victim for a Darwin Award, don't you? That's why I advised a weak coffee solution!

Here's another great use for weak coffee: if you build wooden ship models and want to outfit them with really realistic looking cloth sails, you first make the sails, then dip them in your weak coffee solution and let them dry. The resulting stain antiques the sails, giving them a most realistic off-white, slightly dirty color (kind of like what happens to your teeth when you habitually drink tea and coffee). Lovely effect. Make sure not to use too much coffee in the mix, though, or you'll overdo it and get brown sails which would look horrible.

Keep in mind that the effect is not reversible, and go lightly!

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 02:22 PM

LH: kindly list your bad habits -- there is lots of space below!

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 05:23 PM

Another thought: A friend of mine buys UNROASTED coffee beans, keeps them in the freezer, and roast them himself in middling small batches, which he keeps in the freezer until grinding time just before brewing. He swears that the freshly roasted coffee is much superior. I dunno, myself.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: open mike
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 06:30 PM

if you want more info on ways to filter the water,
I sell filters, "Solid Carbon Block" which are
guaranteed to remove impurities, chemicals, bactieria,
chlorine, and more. I use water direct from a stream
and there have been cases of giardia in the area, but
since I filter H20, I have avoided such infestations/
infections.
water filter info here:
http://www.multipure.com/
but if you want one contact me
instead of the web site! Laurel

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 06:54 PM

I've heard that as well, Dave -- it might be fun for a treat, but can't see it for every day, with both of us working there just isn't time for too many extras. But there's a shop here that sells unroasted beans, and I'll see if I can get some.

Laurel, the water here is great, and I filter anyway, but will check your site to see if I'm missing something.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 07:51 PM

pdc - Sure...

- Too much surfing the Net.

- Too much Mudcat.

- Buy too many model kits.

- Sleep in too late.

- Stay up too late (sometimes).

- Run fingers through hair sometimes when bored, causing premature greasiness.

- Am addicted to pornography featuring hamsters and gerbils in little barbie doll suits.

- Like to pretend that I worship William Shatner. Have done so for so long now that I am beginning to wonder if I actually DO worship him. Scarrry!!!

- Used to drink coffee, but QUIT! Yahoo!!! One down...

- Used to be addicted to sugar, but pretty much quit that too! Yay! Two down...

- Used to be addicted to sex and romance, but decided it's not worth the personal complications. Three down...

- Too much Mudcatting. No, wait...I already said that. It's a tough one.

All in all, I'm proud of the progress I have made toward eradicating my bad habits, but there is still much room for improvement. At least I can take satisfaction in having avoided alcoholism, tobacco, gambling, and drugs...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 08:05 PM

Well then, just to make your day: for me there's nothing as good as a great cup of coffee with brandy and a cigarette. After sex! (Blows virtual smoke toward LH.)

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 08:58 PM

COL! (chuckling out loud...) Sounds like you've found your personal recipe for happiness, pdc.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Helen
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 09:51 PM

I have only one thing to say to you, Little Hawk:

Cigareets & whiskey & wild, wild women,
They'll drive you crazy, they'll drive you insane!

Back on topic, I read a newspaper article which said that heating the milk makes the coffee taste better, so I just zap it for half a minute or so until it gets that warm milk smell (I can't stand drinking warm milk straight because of that smell, but in coffee it's a whole new story). Then I pour the coffee into the warm milk and it does add a little something to the taste. Making it with cold milk is different in a subtle way.

Warm milk doesn't work with tea, IMHO, because the taste doesn't work as well as it does with coffee.

It's worth trying it to taste the difference. It makes sense of why cafés push steam through the milk.

I still prefer tea over coffee, but I like do coffee.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 11:07 PM

>pedant alert!

"Cigareets & whuskey & wild, wild women,"

>end pedant alert

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: LadyJean
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 11:11 PM

When I was a kid, I decided to surprise my parents by making a pot of coffee. There was already some coffee in the pot, and I knew mother drank it reheated, so I just left it there. I put about twice the amount of coffee necessary in the top, then I put in the water, and let it percolate.
The end result had a flavor that beggared description. I was told, more than once that this was NOT how coffee was made. It is just about all I know about making coffee, since I never acquired a taste for it. But I thought I'd pass it on to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: DonMeixner
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 12:20 AM

I am continualy amazed that I can buy better coffee at the gas station than I can get at my office. Generally I think Americans make coffee too weak.

Clean and fresh is the trick.

I am fascinated by the fact that fresh brewed dark roast coffee which is HOT allows cold milk or cream to sink, maybe flow is a better term, to the bottom of the cup. I will stay there until mixed. Cooler and weaker coffee and the cream mixes on contact.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: MudGuard
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 02:50 AM

Decent coffee?
A contradiction in itself...

Best way to do it:

Use fresh clean water, not too hard.
Get it to boil.
Put 1 teaspoon full of Darjeeling First Flush leave tips per cup into a tea sieve, and 1 extra for the pot.
Put sieve into pot.
Pour boiling hot water into pot.
After 2 to 3 minutes take sieve out of pot.

Pour into cups, adding a tiny bit of fresh full fat (3.5%) milk.
No sugar!

Enjoy!

SCNR ;-)
Coffee would be much better if it had not this awful coffee taste ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 10:38 AM

There is no decent coffee in Europe, too. All Orientals raise their eyebrows when served this bloody stuff.
Take good unblended coffee beans from Arabia or Ethiopia, roast them, grind them to dust, put them into the special pot (obtainable in Oriental shops), add sugar and a pinch of ground cardamom. Boil thrice. It should you give a real good kick.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 10:58 AM

My 2 beans worth is Freshly ground (that minute) good beans (I like Java bean) and a pinch of salt (bad for health but good as a flavour enhancer in coffee) by a pinch of salt I mean a real mean pinch.

Oh-Oh....by real mean I mean british mean not USA mean. Mean in Britain can mean small or without largesse.

Ok stop digging Spot.

Spot

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 12:25 PM

Of course it is (I think) obvious that coffee is best JUST NOW brewed, and that if kept hot over a period of time it suffers badly. However, around our house that's hard. Our coffee maker doesn't lend itself to one-or-two-cup batches. What to do? What to do? What to do?

I make a somewhat larger pot, drink my cup or two, and turn off the heat under the rest. Let it get cold. When I want more, I pour a cup, and reheat in the microwave. Yeah, heresy, but it's better than the alternatives.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 12:37 PM

The other approach, for those really serious caffeine addicts, is to convert your spin washer to a coffee-maker (this isn't as hard as it sounds...) and brew up simply vast amounts of the stuff, gallons and gallons of it, and keep it on simmer in the laundry room at all times. The normally vile, bitter taste of fresh-brewed coffee will slowly mutate into a more distinctive and lasting flavour that is somehow subtly reminiscent of burnt peanuts and morning in Algeria. Once you get used to this unique taste you will never want to go back to fresh-brewed coffee again.

You will never have clean laundry again either, but who really cares?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 12:56 PM

Years back, when I worked in the Criminal Investigation Division of the Military Police (yeah, I usta be a cop -- wanna make somethin' of it?) we had precise instruction for making coffee -- instructions which included sprinkling salt over the coffee BEFORE it was made AND sprinkling it in the pot afterwards to "settle the grounds." This was made in a HUGE coffee urn, something like a stainless steel 55 gallon drum. Cops and soliers drink lots of coffee, nearly as much as Alaskans.

I've also heard of a dash of cold water or crushed eggshells being used to settle the grounds. Of course, this was done when the coffee was made by tossing a handful of ground coffee into a pot of hot water and letting it steep....

What was the rule for Cowboy Coffee? "Toss a horseshoe into the pot: if it sinks, the coffee's got to brew a while longer. If it floats, the coffee's ready to drink. If it dissolves, the coffee's perfect."

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 01:51 PM

We're talking connoisseur not addict Little Hawk. An addict would drink shit if you told him it was coffee, just as some alcoholics can not differentiate between sterno and a 15 year old Glendronach.

I may be a coffee nazi, but I am not a total snob. I also have a deep appreciation of Bush Coffee even with a soupçon of horseshit, its just the amount that is the determining factor.

Fill pot or saucepan with icy water, preferably glacial, add equivalent of half a cup of any ground coffee, bring to a boil over an open fire or flame for about 3 minutes.

Retrieve pot from flames with large stick, remove hot lid carefully (fly ash, various insects and trail dust, inclusive of horseshit, can add to flavour infusion at this point or may be infused in individual cups later), add dollop of cold water to settle grounds and pour into cup, preferably tin (you will appreciate the warmth imparted to hands when it is cool enough to drink).

Add coffee whitener, sugar or alcohol of your choice, if deemed necessary. Stir with small stick, preferably not from ground, unless you wish a greater infusion of horseshit and trail dust. Ambrosia!!

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Stewart
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 01:56 PM

"Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love."
Turkish Proverb

Cheers, S. in Seattle
(sleepless?)

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 02:02 PM

You can also use the detritus at the bottom of the cup to safely dispose of lit cigarette butts.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 03:21 PM

From upthread: "When I want more, I pour a cup, and reheat in the microwave."

Although that is slightly heretical, I will tell you that it works a lot better if you use the microwave at half power. That way you don't get the bitterness that often follows microwaving coffee.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 03:53 PM

This is way off the point, but you can also convert your TV set into a very nice fish tank or glass-fronted display cabinet by removing most of the innards. Gutting it, in other words. You will find it is much more relaxing to watch the fish or admire those special rare objects you've collected over the years, and NO commercial interruptions either!

Just thought I'd mention it.

Remember, although you may have been born into the consumer culture there is absolutely no reason why you have to go along with it, and if you value your freedom you won't.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 04:34 PM

Some thoughts: first -- Little Hawk I think that avoiding the consumer culture would make an excellent thread: everyone could contribute their ideas on how to do so.

Second: this thread started as a desire to learn how to make European coffee, not just good coffee. Does anyone know any more secrets to making European coffee?

Third: I am locally famous for my apple pie. (Modest bow.) Even my stepsons (who detest me) ask me to make it, and my family asks for it for Christmas dinner dessert. It took years of messing around before I got it right. To thank you all for your coffee suggestions, I am quite willing to share the recipe, if anyone is interested, (both pastry and filling); please let me know.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 04:55 PM

Bodum or filter/dark roast/water quality unimportant/old stove top expresso maker for a high intensity experience/dead horse.

Thread drift...Self reliancy is very important on very windy or snowy days here. My old Pede hand coffee grinder, bolted to the kitchen wall, has eliminated the need for pounding coffee beans in a baggy with a hammer (coarse ground at best, hard on the bag). Also as necessary, propane burner, wood stove and the coal oil lanterns. Although the white LEDs with a 12V are as handy here too as they are in Tibet.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 05:17 PM

Metchosin, are you using a propane-burning computer, or are you smoking some of the stuff they grow in Metchosin? ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: NicoleC
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 05:34 PM

Hey, I want that recipe. I'm in need a a good apple pie recipe right now -- provided that it doesn't (gasp!) rely on anything canned, and isn't so sweet that you can't taste the apples anymore -- which is usually what's wrong with mediocore apple pie.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 05:44 PM

Nicole, this is from scratch. Can you wait till tomorrow? I'm making Thanksgiving dinner today. [img]http://www.emotipad.com/newemoticons/Munch.gif[/img]

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 06:13 PM

"Does anyone know any more secrets to making European coffee?"

well, since I have never been to Europe, I can't really speak to that. Is coffee really made the same in most of Europe? Is is strong? Are there specific grinds & types of coffee used? I can't quite see why 'European' should be better than coffee in Columbia, or Seattle, or Hawaii, or Ethopia unless it's just what you are used to of that suits your taste.

I guess it's just a matter of experimenting with techniques and types until you get what YOU like...

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 06:21 PM

I, too, would love to have that apple pie recipe! In this thread, or another thread, or via PM.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 06:32 PM

It turns out that I did have the time, so here is the apple pie recipe. Please feel free to ask questions, and to report results!

(I did this in Word, then cut and paste - hope I don't foul up the formatting on the board.)

PASTRY        

3 cups unbleached flour, not sifted
1 cup cold shortening        
3 tbsp. cold butter
2/3 cups ice water

By hand: cut the shortening and butter into the flour until it forms balls about the size of peppercorns. If some are larger, don't worry about it.
Make a well in the centre, pour in all the water at once, and stir with a fork until the pastry clings together and leaves the sides of the bowl.

By food processor: Put flour in processor, add shortening and butter in chunks, pulse the processor repeatedly until you have a mixture about the size of peppercorns. Important: reduce the water to between 1/2 and 2/3 cup, as the processor combines the fat and flour more efficiently.

Wrap in plastic wrap, or put in a covered bowl. Refrigerate at least ½ hour.

This pastry rolls out nicely, stretches nicely, and best of all, is forgiving. If you have to re-roll, the pastry is still good.

APPLE PIE        

Apple pie tastes best with a mix of apples. For a standard 9" pie, you need 8 cups of apples, as follows:

4 Granny Smith apples (no substitutes here, as G.S. apples have enough pectin to keep the pie from being runny).
4 other apples – Jonathans, Macs, Golden Delicious, whatever you have.

By hand: peel the apples, slice into eighths, and then cut each eighth in half sideways.
By apple-peeling machine: cut the circle slices in half, ending with two crescents.

For eight cups of sliced apples:

Sift together 3/4 cup sugar, 1 tsp. cinnamon, 1/8 tsp. salt and 2 Tbsp. flour in a large bowl.
(If you like cloves or nutmeg, add 1/8 tsp. of each or both at this point. I omit both.)
Toss the apple slices in this mix until they are coated, and leave for 15-20 minutes. Line pie plate with pastry.

Remove apple slices with a slotted spoon; place in pastry. (Just to be persnickety, the rounded edges of the apples should go outside, against the edges of the pie plate - makes for more consistent texture, and prevents the slices from cutting the pastry.)

There will be juice left in the bowl in which the apples were; mix 1 tsp. lemon juice into the juice, and pour the mixture evenly over the apples. Dot with 1 Tbsp. butter, cut into bits; roll out top crust, cut steam holes, place on pie and seal the edges. Place pie plate on a cookie sheet to catch drips.

Glass pie plate: bake at 400 degrees for 40 minutes, then test apples through steam slit with a skewer or toothpick. If the apples are still firm, lower the heat to 350 degrees, bake 15 minutes longer.

Metal pie plate: 425 degrees, 40 minutes, test apples as above, and if still firm, 325 degrees for 15 minutes longer.

If you want to look all rustic, and blow people away:

Make an apple pie in a 10" cast-iron frying pan. Increase apples to 10-12 cups, and the rest of the ingredients by half. Bake at 425 degrees 40 – 50 minutes, test apples for firmness, and bake an extra 15 minutes at 350 degrees if needed.

Cool pie well before cutting, as this allows the juices to withdraw, and makes a less runny pie. If you prefer the pie warm, reheat in a low oven -- it won't go runny again.

Enjoy with a good cup of European-style coffee!

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 07:05 PM

Sorry, duh. Making pastry in food processor: after pastry is blended with the fats to the size of peppercorns, remove top of processor, dribble water gently all over the mixture, then pulse very briefly till a ball or mass forms.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 07:12 PM

pdc, power's only flickered a couple of times...a bit of a breeze with a few gusts around 70 clicks, but so far, not much to worry about. Glad I am doing my turkey tomorrow though, although I can always BBQ the bird, if all else fails.

Also, as long as I have an inverter and a 12V I can stay online in a pinch with or without a puff, wind or otherwise.

Pie looks very good, but I'm an old fan of lard, rather than shortening, for the crust. As Madam Benoit said, shortening by its very name, makes the pastry short, not light and flakey.

Very best wishes for your Thanksgiving.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 11:01 PM

Thanks, Metchosin, and the same to you. I also like a lard pastry, but find the shortening one tastes better (because of the butter) and is much, much easier to handle.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 11:17 PM

Any allspice?

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 11:30 PM

Rapaire mentioned eggshells. That's one I remember froma kid. Why use them? Do they help neutralise acid? (They are fairly pure CaCO3 - chalk - which would react with acid.)

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 01:16 AM

Rapaire, the spices are entirely according to personal taste. I find allspice a little overpowering. If you do use it, I would suggest allspice and a little less cinnamon, and no nutmeg or cloves.

But play around with the recipe and see what you like! It's pretty hard to make a really bad apple pie that no one will eat.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: LadyJean
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 12:56 AM

A friend of mine went to Yugoslavia, back when it was still Yugoslavia, on a Fulbright, and learned how to read Turkish coffee grounds. Do any of you mudcatters know how?

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 12:58 AM

Sounds like a Good Earthy Skill.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: darkriver
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 02:43 AM

Rapaire,

funny that you mention Arbuckles. I well recall this passage from
Katie Lee's Ten Thousand Goddam Cattle, about Arbuckles.

She quotes an old friend:

"Yup, cowboys is fussy about the stoutness of their brew.
When Bob Heckle and me was keepin' a brandin' camp fer strays
near Thumb Butte one spring, we come down for supplies 'n found
the whole dang town outta Arbuckles coffee, the only kind we would use.
Well, I bought another brand, fergit what, and heads on
back t' camp by our little stream up in the junipers.
Next morning I rolls out, makes the coffee and calls Bob.
As I recall he got a little fire-bellied in town and wasn't
too spry come sunup. He takes a good round mouthful of that
coffee and lets 'er fly -- sprays all over me, the camp,
the bacon 'n eggs, everything.
I says, 'What the hell's the matter, you latch on to a scorpion?'
He says, 'Christ! Where'd ya git that bellywash?' I told him
they didn't have no Arbuckles. 'Jesus!' he spits, 'I cud stick
a coffee bean up m'ass and wade through the crick and git stronger
coffee than that!'" . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 04:05 AM

Unlike the Turkish proverb the German saying goes:
Coffee must be hot as hell, sweet as sin, and black as my soul.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 07:36 AM

GOOD COFFEE IN ENGLAND?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
A well, to each their own taste! When I am in England, I often try to make a good cup of U.S. joe, to no avail, as the English grind the coffee too fine. For an example of an Englishman who understood this, as he lived here for many years, note the moment in one of the Hornblower novels, where Forrester has him describe to his steward how to prepair the beans, after describing to him how to roast them he tells him to take them to the gunner and have him grind them to to the consistancy of gun powder - for the charge, he tells him not the fine gun powder for the priming. I have often felt Forrester was sending a message home to his fellow countrymen on how to make a good cup of coffee. And yes, the pot needs to be very very clean.
Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 07:43 AM

OH Little Hawk!
I also use coffee to dye sails, and coffee and tea mixed to die lines for the boats, send me an email address and I will send you some photos of my boats, the local maritime museum South Street Seaport once did a show of my work, they actually rebuilt a wall of my house in the museum to show the boats in context.
Cheers
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 08:13 AM

Wow! That is cool, Larry. I know a guy in the Carolinas who makes incredible wooden ships, his name is Wayne Cantin. He's got a site called Tallships3 (or something like that) where you can see his work. I got the coffee tip from him. I'll PM you and you can send some pictures.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 10:47 AM

ah, yes, soon.. sail one upsmanship..*grin*

"so, the mainsail is 12 minutes in a Turkish blend, and the topsheet & spinnaker are 14 minutes in a vat of Ethopian Harrar, while the t'gallant mizzen needs a bit longer...perhaps 18 minutes in a Columbian-Kona blend. And we do have a seldom used jib that was lightly dunked in Costa Rican de-caf for contrast"

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 07:29 PM

Now you're talkin', Bill! Avast there! Where's me cup of brew?

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Amos
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 07:33 PM

Eggshells are used in cowboy coffeepots to make the grounds sink to the bottom, so you can pour your breakfast off the top and not get it stuck in yer teeth.

That sure is one funny story. :>)

I have always found that even the worst coffee can be made passable by the judicious application of Hennessy Five-Star.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 07:43 PM

The guy in the back alley agrees with your analysis, Amos! It works for Jack Daniels too.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 08:25 PM

Tullamore Dew enhances coffee quite well...

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 11:25 PM

So...are the last few posts the answer to my question? I guess if I add enough "enhancements," I won't care if the coffee is great or not!

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Metchosin
Date: 15 Oct 03 - 12:15 AM

Amos, speaking as someone who has prepared and drunk cowboy, bush or campfire coffee, whatever you wish to call it, for almost 50 years, please do no promulgate the myth that eggshells are used to settle coffee grounds.

They don't settle the grounds, they counteract the bitterness that is released by boiling, as posted above. The longer you boil it, the more bitter it becomes, to the point that even eggshells from a gaggle of geese will not resurrect it. They are not a needed ammendment if the coffee is brewed correctly.

Grounds are dealt with by removing the boiled coffee from the fire and allowing the grounds to settle for a few minutes, before pouring it, or carefully adding cold water.

The best bush coffee should only be prepared by someone who views it as a sacrament and never by someone who prefers tea. There are some Arts that that only reach the sublime when a pinch of love is added to the pot. A true student of Zen and the Art of Bush Coffee can tell the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Amos
Date: 15 Oct 03 - 12:50 AM

Well, Metchosin, I'll have to defer to your knowledge; I dunno where I picked up the notion that it was to make the grounds sink and I never analyzed it and always thought it worked for me!! But it could have just been the cooling!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Metchosin
Date: 15 Oct 03 - 01:10 AM

s'all right Amos, just passing on tips imparted to me by my dear ol Dad, who was a cowboy. He lied about a lot of things, but coffee wasn't one of 'em.*BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Oct 03 - 12:25 PM

This may be off--no, it is off the thread subject, but does anyone else get a gray rectangle obscuring part of Amos's post of about 1:00? I've been getting those fairly frequently lately, and don't know if it's Mudcat or my own setup.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Please help me make decent coffee!
From: mack/misophist
Date: 16 Oct 03 - 12:36 PM

Uncle_DaveO: No

During the War Between the States, ersatz coffee was sometimes made with roasted mesquite beans and red clay to cut the bitterness. I tried it. It works. Rotten coffee, though.