Lyr Req: Tom Horn

Subject: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 05:05 PM

Just heard this on Hober radio the other day. Anyone have the words? It done by James McCandless and Juliane Macarus on their "Out West Somewhere" CD, accoridng to Hober.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 05:16 PM

I put James' name into Google and info about Way out West is on www.waterbug.com they printed several of the songs from the CD but not the one you're looking for. Further exploration there may get the words. I've known James for a long time. He's had some health problems lately. This will insprire me to get in touch with him.

Subject: Lyr Add: Old Tom Horn
From: Mark Clark
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 06:05 PM

I don't know whether it's the same song but I found lyrics to Old Tom Horn at this Chris LeDoux discography site. I'm not familiar with the song but, just reading the lyrics, I'd say the song needs a rewrite by somone who's actually read a biography of Horn.

      - Mark

  Old Tom Horn
  (Bob Frank)
          He Rides The Wild Horses
  
  Now back in old Wyoming
  Many long years ago
  When there was no law and order 
  round to regulate the show
  Those old Wyoming ranchers had a problem on their hands
  Trying to keep the cow thieves and the rustlers off their land
  
  Now old Tom Horn came a riding up one day
  Gonna lend a hand to the cattlemen in his own peculiar way
  Well he took his 44-40 out and cleaned it up right well
  Then he rode off down Dry Gulch with a sack of rifle shells
  
  CHORUS
  Old Tom Horn with a rifle by his side
  Through the hills of Wyoming he would ride
  There ain't no tellin' how many cattle thieves he killed
  But it was God help the rustler when Tom Horn was in the hill
  
  If you rode the Larame Valley
  By either day or night
  You can be right sure he's watchin' you
  Through his rifle sights
  He laid out in the bushes 
  And the rustler come around
  Then he'll spill the boy with a single shot
  And chamber one more round
  
  Now the rustlers tried to stop him but they found there was no way
  He could pick them off from a mountain side a half mile away
  Well they ran him down the border but they never touched his hide
  He just slipped across to his hide out on the Colorado side
  
  CHORUS
  
  Then one day young Willie Nickle
  Was out a ridin' around
  A 44-40 shot rang out and laid the poor boy down
  Well it was only fourteen years
  Since that little kid was born
  And they said it looked like the doing's of that lonesome Tom Horn
  
  So the cattlemen went and strung him up
  With a length of fresh snipped rope
  But his ghost still hangs out in the hills and spooks the Antelope
  Now all the rustlers hatred
  And all the cattlemen's fears
  Have keep all Tom Horn alive through all the changing years
  
  CHORUS
  
  

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 07:45 PM

Thanks, Mark, but that doesn't sound like the one. FWIW, that is pretty much the story of Tom Horn, in Wyoming. Also, knowing of Chris LeDeux through mutual friends, he'd pretty sure of close-to-the-fable truthfullness, if there is such a thing, before he'd sing a song. I am sure he knows there's a lot more to it though than the Wyoming version.:-)

Phil, glad this brought an old friend to mind. I wish him well and maybe he'll feel up to sharing some lyrics soon.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Jeep man
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 08:12 PM

There was a movie called "Tom Horn" which followed Bob Frank's story. I believe that Steve McQueen played Horn. Jeep

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Mark Clark
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 09:30 PM

I've always enjoyed McQueen's portrayal of Tom Horn and also the performance of David Caradine in the title role of the TV movie Mr. Horn. IMDB indicates there have been four movies made about Tom Horn.

Kat, I assume Wyoming's understanding of Horn's story is the one presented in the Wyoming Tales and Trails biography of Horn. If your understanding differs, I'd be interested in the particulars. The biography I've read—can't lay hands on it right now—strongly suggests that Horn was framed for the killing of Willie Nickle—the murder for which he was hanged. This is not to suggest that he wasn't guilty of murder, just not that one.

Had Woodie Guthrie written a song about Horn, he would probably have come off as nearly heroic, a la Pretty Boy Floyd.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 01:16 AM

Mark, thanks, that is a fantastic link! I haven't read through all of it, but it seems spot on from what I remember, growing up and later in WY history class at the college.

I think I was not as clear as I meant to be. I just meant that it seemed there was more to the story than the old WY cattlemen's version, but it looks as though a lot of that is now more known. I always did believe Horn was probably framed for Nickel's death, but really, Horn was a man living past his time. I believe he was used by the cattle barons, as long as it was convenient and didn't threaten them in anyway, but eventually he became a liability to them.

Of course, in the sheepmen had a completely different take on the whole thing.:-)

It is interesting to me, to note, that about the time Horn was doing his thing in WY, was when my great-granddad finally had to respond to a neighbour's dispute with a deadly shoot-out. He was also involved, as was my granddad, in several cattlemen and sheepmen set-to's in Colorado, but nothing like the stuff Horn was doing.


Thanks a bunch.

Subject: DTADD: Tom Horn
From: Mark Ross
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 01:24 AM

Here's Utah Phillips on the story;

Tom Horn

These two songs were printed some years back, when I was in Salt Lake City, in a pamphlet known as The New Revised 75 cent Song Book. Both songs were made up with traditional tunes in mind, but as I never did sing either of them much, I though they might need tunes other than the ones I came up with. They're good stories that ought to be heard, so we decided to print just the words, and leave it up to you to dig up the tune. If you happen to find a tune or make up one you especially like, send it along to me care of Wooden Shoe. By the way, the introductions are taken straight out of The New Revised 75 cent Song Book.
Wrapped this one up while I was searching around for an envelope. The story is mentioned in an old WPA manuscript where I first read it. The details, though, are taken from the telling of a Dagget County boy whose grandfather was an invalid and spent his declining years amusing his relatives with stories and tall tales about the big drives from Texas to Wyoming and Montana. This fellow was a little under the weather when I got this story, as we had been drinking most of the afternoon over at the Parlor on State Street. But it doesn't matter whether or not the story is a true one, as long as it is his story or his grandfather's story. As much as possible, I would like to write these songs just the way my informants would have if they were songwriters, all the way down to using phrases and catch words that I would not normally use in a Song myself. In this song, for instance, I got the story down pretty much word for word; I've just rearranged some of the phrasing and added in some rhyme words until his conversation comes out in verse form. Then I sang the song at him until I came up with a tune that he knew and also fit the words. This song goes to the tune of "Little Joe the Wrangler". If you're using the old one, then the tune stays the same all the way through. If you're using the later one, the same one used for "Little Joe the Wrangler's Sister Nell", then the tune changes every other verse, which is a good idea since there are 14 of them.


Gather 'round you cowboys and pull up to the fire,
And I'll commence to tell you all a tale
Of Tom Horn the rustler and gun-fighter you all know,
And the time he rode out on the outlaw trail.

Now I know his reputation won't bear too close a look,
But hold your fire until my story's through,
And I will tell you how there was a great injustice done,
I'll swear right now that every word is true.

It was up in old Brown's Park not so very long ago,
By the river that we sometimes call the Bear,
Where the outlaws came to hole up and hide out from the law,
And they used to brand their stolen cattle there.

The Tracy-Lant killers and wild Butch Cassidy,
The boys from Powder Springs were all there, too;
Though the marshals went in after and some came out alive,
You know they must have buried quite a few.

Now the big Association had lost so many steers
It was certain that the lawmen had all failed,
For not a single outlaw had ever been strung up,
While their friends were there to bust them out of jail.

So young Tom Horn was called in to hire out his gun,
And go up there and clean those rustlers out.
Though he was not as famous as some other names you've heard,
He was the fastest in his day without a doubt.

Well, he rode up the Uintas into the outlaw town,
And there he joined up with that rustler band.
He rode with them at Rawlins and down along the Green,
But he was careful not to show his hand.

But one by one the outlaws began to disappear,
While riding out to check the herd at night.
It was Tom Horn who met them and called them to account,
For none could stand against him in a fight.

So pretty soon the rustlers grew scarce and hard to find,
And those who were still living drifted on.
And the big Association sent a message up by wire,
"Good work, and now your job with us is done."

But they did not want it known that they had hired a gun
To do a job the marshals could not do,
So they paid him off in Rawlins and told him not to tell
This secret that was known by just a few.

Well, he rode into Cheyenne and entered the saloon,
And there they jumped him, twenty men or more.
The ranchers of that valley, they knew the rustler hand,
And everyone had seen his face before.

The sheriffs would not listen, they laughed and said he lied;
His reputation there was known too well.
Though they wired to Routt County on the chance he might be right,
The cattlemen who hired him would not tell.

So they put him in the jailhouse, but he never came to trial,
For a lynching mob broke in and took him down.
They strung him to the rafters until his neck was broke,
And they dumped his body at the edge of town.

And this is the true story of how Tom Horn was killed,
It happened at the hands of honest men.
Though his gun had brought the outlaws to a quick and painless end,
He never got the chance he gave to them.


Source: http://www.utahphillips.org/songbook/tomhorn.html

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 09:47 AM

Mark Ross, THANK YOU!! I only heard it the one time, but that sounds like the one played on Hober! Great song, thanks so much. I always love hearing what Utah has to say, too, don't know why I didn't think to look at his site!

happykat

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Mark Ross
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 09:59 AM

Anytime Kat, my pleasure,

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Mark Clark
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 10:24 AM

Mark, What a great song! Now I'll have to learn that one. Have you talked with Bruce about this story? Does he know why his informant didn't include anything about Willie Nickle or Horn's trial for that murder?

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Mark Ross
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 10:30 AM

I haven't talked with Bruce about it lately. He had me put another tune to it about 5 or 6 years ago(and damned if I can remember it!).
His informant probably had the selective memory that often comes with age, besides, it was in a manuscript that Bruce found when he was the state archivist in Utah. So he didn't get the story first hand.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 04:28 PM

Hmmm, now I don't know what to think. According to this page McCandless is responsible for the words and music, so maybe it's a completely different song? This is what comes of listening to Hober!:-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: GUEST,Monahan
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 07:10 PM

The song originally asked for was "Tom Horn" by James McCandless from hid CD "Out West Somewhere". It's written by McCandless, and I have to say this CD is one of my all-time favorites. I never understood why he never broke through to a national audience. I used to go see him play at Fitzgerald's all the time.....anyway....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 11:45 PM

Thanks, Monahan. Do you know where we can find the lyrics?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 07:55 PM

Do we have a tune for either of the above sets of lyrics? I need one, please. (Don't have Noteworthy so I can't print MIDI's)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 10:50 PM

Tom Horn- 1860-1903.
The poem, "Tom Horn, He Was My Hero," at: Tom Horn

An interesting little book is "Life of Tom Horn, Government Scout and Interpreter," by Tom Horn. The Narrative Press. Narrative Press
Also "Tom Horn," 1975, Will Henry, J. P. Lippincott (and reprints). Fictionalized.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:45 AM

But, I need a tune for a song....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 12:18 PM

James McCandless performs song called TOM HORN on "Out West Somewhere," Waterbug CD #9, 1995. There is supposed to be a sound sample at Barnes & Noble but I couldn't get it to play. (Not sure if my computer is screwed up or their site is.)

Bluegrass Patriots also perform a song called TOM HORN on "Last Waltz," 1993.

Apparently both these albums are out of print.

Not sure if either of these songs is the one wanted.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 01:42 PM

Sorcha, for the second set of verses posted by Mark Ross, the recommended "Sister Nell" tune is here at numachi: Joe's Nell

The "Nell" tune seems a little doleful for the first verses of Tom Horn, but more emphasis and a little speeding up should do it. I have't heard Utah Phillips sing it, but he knows how to put these songs across.

The first song posted (by Mark Clark) changes gears in the verses and is hard to match to a good flowing tune. More suited to the story-teller, part song part recitation. (The last word of the verse below the chorus is hills, and I think Laramie is meant, not Larame.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 02:12 PM

Thank you both!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 11:46 PM

I tried again to play the sound sample of James McCandless' song at Barnes & Noble (see my link above) and this time it worked. I was able to transcribe this:

...in 1873.
Tom Horn. Tom Horn.

Well, his mother could not tame him; no stick to tame him with,
No church west of Saint Louie, no God west of Fort Smith.
And no kid more skilled at killin' has ever been produced.
He ran the bandit country and lived in Robber's Roost.

It seems to be a different song from the ones posted above. Now that sound sample might be a complete verse, and so enough to get a tune from. But now you need the rest of the lyrics!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Jul 04 - 01:46 AM

Great additions, Q and Jim, thanks!

Subject: Lyr Add: TOM HORN (James McCandless)
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 14 Jul 04 - 02:19 AM

I gotta agree with Monahan about a rare talent who is little known out of Chicago. Here's Jim's song:

TOM HORN

It was ninety degrees at midnight when Tom Horn arrived
And you could hear that baby screamin' from here to the riverside.
But if you could grow a stinkweed in a field of barleycorn
You could surely have a little bastard as mean as Tommy Horn.

His mother was alone when she had him, his father had been killed
The neighbors would not help her, they had a town to build.
Yes, there'd be a new saloon in the mornin', first things first, you see
That was a Six-Gun Nation in 1873.

Tom Horn, Tom Horn

Well, his mother could not tame him, no stick to tame him with,
No church west of St Louie, no God west of Fort Smith
And no kid more skilled at killin' has ever been produced
He ran to bandit country and lived in a robber's roost.

You can talk about Butch Cassidy and sing about the Sundance Kid
Kid Curry, Billy the Kid, all those kids and all the deeds they did
Yes, but Tom Horn was a back-shooter, the lowest thing that crawls
He murdered for a livin' and escaped through a hole in the wall.

Tom Horn, Tom Horn

CHORUS
Word came down the grapevine, from an unknown source,
Like the mornin' dew
From a distant cousin, twice removed
Word got out on you.

(Instrumental break)

When he killed that one-armed woman it was regulator work
He killed Davy Crockett's nephew, stretched him face down in the dirt.
Some say he killed the little Nichols boy, some say it was a fake
That Joe LeFors had framed him, what difference does it make?

They boxed him in a canyon and took him back to jail
He went out like he came in, screamin' bloody Hell
Yes, and for being the most ruthless gun in all the West
They had a little necktie party, with Tom as the honored guest.

Tom Horn, Tom Horn

You know, most folks don't need no one to teach them wrong from right
They gain it from the common experience of life.
Yes, but Tom Horn needed something that life just don't extend.
The right to be a jackass in a world of normal men.

Yes, and it was ninety degrees at midnight when Tom Horn arrived
And you could hear that baby screamin' from here to the riverside.
Yes and if you could grow a stinkweed in a field of barleycorn
You could surely have a little bastard as mean as Tommy Horn.

Tom Horn, Tom Horn

CHORUS
CHORUS

Tom Horn, Tom Horn

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jul 04 - 02:07 PM

There seem to be polar differences about the character of Tom Horn. Will the real Tom Horn rise from the grave and be counted?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:36 PM

Just heard this on Hober, again. I missed Guest, Billy's psoting. Thanks for that, Billy.

Yeah, Q, that'd be great if we really could settle, eh?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Tom Horn
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 01:00 AM

Kat, I wasn't psotted, only had a coupla beers (hic!) honest!