Ordinary Business Practices

Subject: Ordinary Business Practices Advice?
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 11:18 AM

I put together a CD of traditional sea chanties to be used to enhance sales of a book of modern sea-stories. The mom-and-pop tean who are publishing the book have reported to me with great amusement that some customers are more interested in the CD than the book! So they are proposing to give me a buck for the CD when they give one away with the book, and 15% for sales of the CD alone.

We are only talking pocket money here -- this is not a big issue. But I am curious to know, if anyone out there can tell me, how this compares to standard fare for a recording artist performing public domain songs? I have heard figures of 10-12% also. These seem a bit thin to me. But I don't know. I'd like a clear understanding of current practices.

Can anyone provide me with an assessment of what is normal and/or fair?

There is some interesting background on the industry overall at this site.

Thanks,


A

Subject: RE: Ordinary Business Practices
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 11:35 AM

Amos, where can one obtain the book & CD?

Subject: RE: Ordinary Business Practices
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 11:48 AM

I hope I understand the question correctly, I'll give it a go:

Performing Public Domain on a record that I would publish/relase would cost me nothing in license fees, unless I was performing a previously copyright protected arrangement. So the releasing artists is essentially free from paying fees for public domain songs.

If I was performing copyright protected, original works by another composer on my record, and this was a previously published song, I would have to pay a mechanical license fee (8 cents per copy, or $80 per thousand). If the work had NOT been publsihed, I would need to have the author's permission and presumably pay a license fee for that permission.

It sounds like your friends are carrying the cost of manufacturing and releasing the CD, at least as far as the book release is concerned; so $1 per CD is essentially pure profit for you, and may not be a bad deal. Consider; whn I sell my CDs outright to a retail outlet, I sell them for $7 each, sometimes less. If my production costs are $5 each (and they are pretty damn close) then I am making $1 or $2 profit per CD.

The guy who takes the risk to sell the CDs is the guy who makes the profit. Seems to be a fact of life! Maybe that's why guys like me who depend upon CD sales for income, much prefer to sell off the stage! We make those few extra bucks!

I hope this answers your question.

Subject: RE: Ordinary Business Practices
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 11:48 AM

Thanks for asking that, Rap!! The book is called "The Spark from the Sea", and is published by Home Planet Books. It is a compilation edited by David Horrigan. It can be ordered through Amazon or from Home Planet Books directly,

See this thread also.

As for the CD you should get one if you buy the book and if that doesn't occur, through some oversight, just let me know and I will ensure you get one.

Be aware that there is no professional sound engineering involved in this CD -- it is organic and untouched by artificial hands. :>)


Regards,

A

Subject: RE: Ordinary Business Practices
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 11:51 AM

Jed:

Thanks. From what you say, you don't sign on for a particular per centage of the gross sales?

A

Subject: RE: Ordinary Business Practices
From: NicoleC
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:04 PM

A good book to pick up is "This Business of Music." It will tell you more than you every wanted to know about this stuff, and can usually be found in used bookstores since it's such a popular volume. Get a recent edition, though, and beware that specific legalities change from time to time.

15% is an excellent offer on their part. Well established and famous artists can command significant revenues from their record companies, but that's the rarity. Someone like Michael Jackson may get 50%, but record sales still aren't his best music income.

Somes friends of mine, for example, released several CDs on their own that sold quite well (for an indie band) until they got a big contract with A****. They got a fair advance, which enabled them to be musicians full time (but just barely) long enough to cut and album and start touring. I don't know that exact figure, but they bought a big Ford cargo van for touring with the money. All the money. So you get the idea.

Anyway, one record and good sales later, the only money they are making is touring, and that's just enough to feed them and buy gas. Because: when you have a contract like this, it's an "advance against profit," and before you make any money off the album (your 5%), you have to pay the record company back for all or part of the expenses of making it AND pay them back for your advance. If sales never recoup the costs, the record company eats it -- UNLESS you make another album under the same contract, in which cases the debt adds up on the second album. Still, though, you never have to pay them back at any point unless it's from sales. The r.c. takes all the risk.

A contract for someone making public domain fare could probably have a higher percentage, because the costs of making the album would be less and the r.c. takes less risk laying out their money.

Needless to say, when A*** decided to part ways after one album, they weren't too upset once they got over the feeling of being rejected, and went back to making their own records -- which they DID make money off of.

Long story long, 15% is great if they are handling the production side of things. Take it and smile :)

Subject: RE: Ordinary Business Practices
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:04 PM

I am self published, so essentially it's all up to me. That's good news bad news. Good news is the cost vs profit issue is almost all under my control, so whatever is profit is mine. The bad news I have to carry the burden of paying everyone who me sell, and that can amount to much much more then if I was paying a record company or distribution agency - IF I want to sell on a large scale.

Amazon takes a large percentage. They get about 65% of sales costs. CDBaby is better, and provide better service (but they have much much smaller exposure). I find that sellling on Amazon is not really for profit as much as for exposure to folks who have heard stuff on the radio and don;t know where elese to look. I sell low volumes there, and that's OK with me!

I'm not dissing Amazon - they sereve their purpose for me, and if I was selling big numebrs there, the profit would be worthwhile from a volume standpoint. Afterall, they do carry most of the burden; direct sales transactions, shipping, customer service.

Subject: RE: Ordinary Business Practices
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:05 PM

I think you can copyright your arrangement of the songs; even if they are unacompanied IMO you have done an "arrangement" by choosing exactly how to sing them. Could be wrong, but there shold be some protection for your work.

(And BTW, good JOB!)

~S~

Subject: RE: Ordinary Business Practices
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:14 PM

There are standards for what is and what isn't a new arrangement. But I believe the purpose is to protect the intellectual property of the new ideas you bring to the work; your modified lyrics, your modified chord progression, your modified melody all come to mind. There also structural things that might be protectable (now there's a word). The ne order in which you sing verses, chorus or the new chorus or bridge you add. These things, though may border on a copyright for a deriviative work.

The devil's in the detail. You have to read the fine print on the copyright form and website.

Subject: RE: Ordinary Business Practices
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:21 PM

Thanks for all your help. It appears it's a fair deal.

A