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Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?

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GUEST,James 04 Jun 04 - 11:50 PM
Dave Hanson 05 Jun 04 - 02:22 AM
GUEST,Lindswidder 05 Jun 04 - 04:36 AM
C-flat 05 Jun 04 - 04:36 AM
GUEST,Lindswidder 05 Jun 04 - 05:31 AM
fogie 05 Jun 04 - 05:43 AM
GUEST,Jon 05 Jun 04 - 07:34 AM
GUEST,jennifer 05 Jun 04 - 08:21 AM
Dave Hanson 05 Jun 04 - 08:55 AM
The Fooles Troupe 05 Jun 04 - 11:11 AM
GUEST,James 05 Jun 04 - 05:58 PM
The Fooles Troupe 05 Jun 04 - 07:21 PM
GUEST,James 06 Jun 04 - 12:21 AM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Jun 04 - 02:02 AM
George Papavgeris 06 Jun 04 - 02:17 AM
Bob Bolton 06 Jun 04 - 05:26 AM
GUEST,Jon 06 Jun 04 - 07:08 AM
Bob Bolton 06 Jun 04 - 08:19 AM
The Fooles Troupe 07 Jun 04 - 01:13 AM
Bob Bolton 07 Jun 04 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,Lindswidder 07 Jun 04 - 11:03 AM
pavane 08 Jun 04 - 02:02 AM
Bob Bolton 08 Jun 04 - 06:45 AM
GUEST,James 10 Sep 04 - 02:04 PM
GUEST,sampson 23 Nov 07 - 11:59 AM
Jack Campin 23 Nov 07 - 01:20 PM
GUEST,george garside 23 Nov 07 - 02:43 PM
The Fooles Troupe 23 Nov 07 - 06:28 PM
GUEST 24 Nov 07 - 01:40 PM
Bernard 24 Nov 07 - 02:54 PM
Bob Bolton 24 Nov 07 - 07:04 PM
The Fooles Troupe 24 Nov 07 - 08:45 PM
GUEST,sampson 26 Nov 07 - 10:13 AM
GUEST,sampson 26 Nov 07 - 01:11 PM
The Fooles Troupe 27 Nov 07 - 06:59 AM
GUEST,jon 27 Nov 07 - 07:42 AM
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Subject: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 11:50 PM

Help, Accordionists! I went to a house goods auction (to bid on a car) but an accordion was one of the items for sale. I didn't have much time to play with it before it came up but I loved the sound of the reeds and I was intrigued enough to bid and I won it (didn't get the car, tho').
Trouble is - I can't figure out how to play it.
It is like a piano accordion (same notes push/pull) and the 120 bass buttons on the left hand work the same as a 120 bass accordion.
The right side has a piano-style keyboard (black/white) with an additional two rows of short white-key stubs extending beyond the piano keys. The notes are all wrong on the piano keys and the extra stub white keys are sharps and flats of whatever note the long white key on the piano part is.
Sticking out of the piano part of the keyboard are two knobs which switch the sound of the reeds (switches/couplers?).
There is no name on the instrument and it seems to be handmade with the frame on each end made of aluminium.
Any ideas on how to play this?


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 02:22 AM

It's best played with a 14lb sledge hammer.
eric


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,Lindswidder
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 04:36 AM

Um... bollocks to E the R - Just enjoy it- it sound absolutely delightful!!   
I hope that anyone who thinks otherwise will go and boil their head..


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: C-flat
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 04:36 AM

As this month is National Accordion Awareness Month, I think we should show a little respect to our accordion-afflicted brothers.



Maybe a 10lb hammer?


C-flat.


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,Lindswidder
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 05:31 AM

I am reminded of a joke "what's the difference between a banjo and a trampoline" ?

You take your shoes off before you jump on a trampoline...!

All I can say in response to you guys who insult the accordion is that you must be very deficient in the willie department


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: fogie
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 05:43 AM

I'd love to see a photo of this beast. I cant work out what on earth it is. I've never seen anything like you describe! It might be worthwhile contacting London Accordions of London ? on internet and asking - the reason that I mention them is simply theyre always at sidmouth and specializes in accordions only.
I just wonder if someone has retuned the piano keyboard to make it a chromatic medodeon-accordion hybrid.
Fascinating- it might be both unique,and totally useless- best of luck


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 07:34 AM

There are loads of different accordians and I can't help you with the fingering...

Is the one you are describing something like this one?


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,jennifer
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 08:21 AM

I imagine this house-goods auction might be because the original owner is not in a position to give you any hints on how to play it?   Why not contact your local newspaper and see if they will run an article - mystery instrument - may dredge up someone who played with him/her?


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 08:55 AM

Hey Lindswidder, I happen to play banjo so mind your manners.
Incidently you ought to become a member with contributions like yours.
eric


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:11 AM

It's NOT a 'Piano Accordion'.

I'm sure I mentioned this style somewhere in the thread Technique: Piano Accordion for The Recycled Muso. Basically, it is a form of 'Button Accordion'.

Note that the black keys - if it is similar to the picture linked to above - are not arranged like a piano keyboard, but are between EVERY white key and its neighbour.

You have for practical purposes a type of multi-row button box - most probably a "Chromatic Button Box". I have never laid my hands on one, but have seen them around.

The knobs thingies act like Piano Accordion Register Switches, allowing different reed bank combinations.

How do you play it? Next Question....

If you really want to get rid of it, (and it seems to be fully working) you could PM me and we could chat...


Robin


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 05:58 PM

Thanks for all these good suggestions. Believe me, in trying to figure this thing out, taking a 10lb hammer to it has already been considered!
Guest Jon, the photograph is almost like my instrument, the main difference being the black keys on mine are in 2s and 3s like a piano keyboard. Where the missing black keys would be, the switches stick out like mushrooms. The switches are marked '1A', '1B', '3B', '3A', '2N' and 'BA' (although the 'A's look more like upside down 'V's). The 1A switch is between the first
white key and the edge of the keyboard. There is a 7th switch marked '4' which is on the side of the bass end of the keyboard (i.e. at a 90 degree angle to the other switches).            
The instrument in the photo has 72 keys, mine has 74 of which only 52 are attached to a valve (22 keys (12 on the bass end and 10 on the treble end) are not attached to anything and do not
play). There are only 43 actual notes/valves on the treble side, so of the 52 keys, 9 are doubled to
the same note.
The actual notes are as follows (bass to treble) X = key not attached:
Black row: (switch 1A)-X-X-X-(switch 1B)-F#-A-(switch 3B)-D#-F#-A-(switch 3A)-D#-F#-(switch 2N)-C-D#-F#-(switch BA)-X-X
Long White key row: X-X-X-X-F-G#-B-D-F-G#-B-D-F-G#-B-D-F-G#-X-X-X
Middle (stub) White key row: X-X-X-E-G-Bb-C#-E-G-Bb-C#-E-G-Bb-C#-E-G-X-X-X
End (stub) White key row: X-X-D#-F#-A-C-D#-F#-A-C-D#-F#-A-C-D#-F#-A-X-X
From the photograph I could see the black key notes being (if the switches weren't there): X-X-X-D#-F#-A-C-D#-F#-A-C-D#-F#-A-C-D#-F#-X-X-X
I think this is some kind of arrangement to make the fingering the same in every (musical) key (like the bass buttons) but the logic escapes me.


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 07:21 PM

Oh my god! another variation!
Sounds like a "Chromatic" arrangement.

(Your 'D#' would more traditionally be called 'Eb', & 'G#', 'Ab' - they are musically equivalent. I'm a 'Classically Trained Keyboardist')


The
Long White key row: X-X-X-X-F-G#-B-D-F-G#-B-D-F-G#-B-D-F-G#-X-X-X
Middle (stub) White key row: X-X-X-E-G-Bb-C#-E-G-Bb-C#-E-G-Bb-C#-E-G-X-X-X
End (stub) White key row: X-X-D#-F#-A-C-D#-F#-A-C-D#-F#-A-C-D#-F#-A-X-X
layout seems similar to those with the 'chequerboard' keyboard layout. If you want more info on that style of instrument, you could try some of the references in the thread I pointed to earlier. They attempt to cover a wider range of instrument styles than I do.

We should perhaps ask Bob Bolton, it sounds less like a 'Piano Accordion', and more like some sort of 'Keyboard Style Button Accordion' - he may know more than me - hell ANYBODY may know more than me!

Would love to see a photo, if you can organise one!

I'd say that is is physically a fairly rare beastie.

It would require a degree of dedication similar to playing a McCann (a variant of the English Concertina) relative to playing a standard English Concertina. And you won't find too many other players, or too much help on your exact instrument, but you could find info 'Chromatic keyboard' info useful.

However, and this is the most important thing, if you really LOVE the sound, you may want to stick with it for a few years. You would probably be guaranteed consideration of concert spots, etc, because of the unusualness of the instrument, once you have achieved a degree of 'mastery', the ability to play fairly well on the thing.

Robin


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:21 AM

Foolestroupe, The photograph on Jon's clicky site is as close as it gets.
I play piano accordion -not well (I have two - a regular 120 bass piano accordion and a small 12-bass model) and English Concertina (a Bastari - wish I could afford a good one) and I do like the sound of the reeds on this (apparently a "Bastardi") instrument.
The only information I got at the auction was that the previous owner was a retired mailman who was a US Army officer in Italy during WWII.
The switches seem like they are of the WWII era as modern accordion switches are usually on the panel above the keyboard. He may have found the instrument in Italy or even have had it made there.
The instrument seems like it was built as a regular accordion but the keyboard reconfigured to this four-row style which would account for the keys that are not attached to anything. I have taken it apart and it seems like it was originally built this way - there is no obvious sign of a retrofit on the keyboard.
If you think this thing has any value I may keep it as is but rather than spending years to play it well, I am tempted to move the reeds
into an instrument I can play.


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 02:02 AM

While butchering it for the reeds may seem a good idea, I would personally prefer that you really didn't do that. Old rarish instruments are disappearing all the time.

Actually, the wonderful sound you get out of that box may well turn out not so good when you transplant the reeds. There is so much more to the sound than JUST the reeds - the whole tone chamber construction and indeed the whole instrument affects the sound - the type of wood, the size and shape of the passages and chambers, etc. My little 32 Bass Settimo Soprani has a tremendous sound, and it doesn't have special reeds, just fairly 'standard' ones for the day - it's the way it is made - the 48 bass model Settimo Soprani same period is nowhere the same even though it seems to have identical reeds from the same manufacturer, even though the 32 bass model was aimed at a 'cheaper audience'.

"keyboard reconfigured to this four-row style"
As far as I understand that sort of instrument was not totally uncommon to be a standard design (many were probably discarded or butchered once the 'piano' style became trendy) - whether that idea preceded or postdated the addition of the real piano keyboard by Pietro Deiro (allegedly in 1920) I wouldn't know. It may have been 'liberated' or bought. If it was something very special, and thus possibly quite valuable, obviously the relatives didn't care a shit...

I suspect it could easily be about the 1920 vintage.

The B switch I guess might be the master switch - if you listen to what they do, you should be able to work out (or even look if you have it apart) what reed combinations are controlled, and how they are interlocked. I suspect it could be a 3 reeder. If you are already a piano accordion player, you should be able to manage working that out.

Robin


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 02:17 AM

Wow. Not being an accordion player, I have to say that the picture on Jon's link looks to me like a smile with several teeth too many. James, an alternative might be having a couple of extra fingers grafted onto your right hand.


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 05:26 AM

G'day (Guest)James & Foolestroupe,

When I read James' description I thought it could (... just...) be two rows of Chromatica (continental chromatic button accordion) keys abutting a standard piano accordion keyboard ( ... to give a choice of systems ... ?) but that doesn't make sense unless at least three rows of buttons provide a full chromatic scale with additional rows (ideally 5 in total) allowing more use of a single 'standard' pattern for each key.

I notice that several other boxes on that site have 3 to 5 rows of Chromatica keys. Presumably the "Aquila fintocromo" has retuned the piano-style keys to the arrangement of rows 3 and 4 of Chromatica system (... WHY?)> James' comments on the tuning of the actual keys of his instrument (and Foolstroupes check over it) suggest this might just be what has happened with this one as well. That would mean that all white "piano" keys would be at intervals of 3 semitones (and each would be a tone above the lower button to its left. Quite what it would then do with the black keys, which remain in 'piano-style' 2 - 3 groupings quite escapes me.

A friend, who plays piano accordion / button accordion / all (8 ... ?) systems of concertina/ most everything else! said she didn't like the Chromatica (Continental Chromatic) "because it was too logical" ... maybe this instrument follows on from that point!

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 07:08 AM

James, you could try asking here or on rec.music.makers.squeezebox. Going by the comments here, it sounds as if you have quite an unusual beast. Perhaps these sites would have more specialist knowledge in rarer instruments.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 08:19 AM

G'day again Foolestroupe,

I'm not sure of what you speak with: "…preceded or postdated the addition of the real piano keyboard by Pietro Deiro (allegedly in 1920) …"

The first application of a full 'piano keyboard' to the free-reed accordion was by the French in the mid 1850s … following sharply on the development of tabletop free-reed 'organs' such as the 1850 "Harmoniette", which had left-hand bellows, but no chords. Busson's 1855 "Harmoniflute" (… the first to have a piano-style keyboard …) had 3½ octaves of 'piano' keys but either no chords - or just a very simple drone. The systematic (and, in its way, ingenious) 'Stradella' bass seems to have eluded the French and fell to the more harmonious Italians.

Dated examples of both the above instruments appear in Le Fisarmoniche (rather inaccurately given the English title: Piano-Accordions by its publishers Itinerari d'immagini) – a small illustrated catalogue of the accordion (/melodion/flautina/concertina/bandoneon) collection of the MUSEO miscellaneo GALBIATI, Brugherio, where we also find a circa 1880 piano accordion with a nearly 3 octave (34-key) piano keyboard … and a 64-key 'Stradella' bass made by Tesio Giovanni – of Stradella, Italia.

The first example, in this booklet, of a C(h)romatica (Continental Chromatic Button accordion) is 2 pages on - a circa 1885 Mariano Dallape, Stradella-built, box having 60 treble keys in a 4-row C(h)romatica layout and 112 basses (in an unusual arrangement of 16 wide by 7 deep … What chord is in the 7th row?).

Anyway, this shows that, after a 50 year start by the diatonic button accordion, these two chromatic accordion systems have coexisted for at least 120 years … and the C(h)romatica scheme has developed an astonishing range of variants from Italy to the northern reaches of Russia. The web site linked by Guest Jon (05 Jun 04 - 07:34 AM) seems to be dedicated to the particular (and peculiar!) Scandinavian schemes, which seem to prove something about the dangers of long Arctic nights!

Oh ... BTW: I also take exception to your: "... a McCann (a variant of the English Concertina) relative to playing a standard English Concertina ...". (My first concertina was a Maccann) Let me assure you that Professor Maccann's little baby is a variant of nothing! It is (like all the Duet concertina systems) entirely sui generis ... a class of its own! The concertinas are the supreme results of English eccentricity ... and virtually none of the English systems has any relationship to any other concertina ... or any other instrument on this earth! (I have deserted the Maccann for the Anglo, which is only an English-quality version of the original conzertina: the German one, produced 4 years before Wheatstone's.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 01:13 AM

WOW! Thanks Bob!

I don't have the books you mention, would you know if they could be on the web somewhere? or would someone I could meet up with may have a copy I could browse?

This 'Pietro Diero - 1920' stuff appears all over the web (probably copied from each other!), but with no primary (or even any other level reference) source link for this claim.... Bob, I might have to 'borrow' some more of your extremely useful research for the Accordion Permathread... :-)


"What chord is in the 7th row?)."
It could be the extra (Minor 3rd) Counter-bass Row?

Chord buttons of this period may still have the third (III) of the Dim & Dom chords - I don't know when this change came in, or how long it took - thus there may be another chord row... In a book of approx 1920's vintage, I saw a mention of the 'new system' of leaving out the III of these chords mentioned.


I have a McCann... :-) It is a 'logical redistribution of the tones of the standard English Concertina, designed to place lower octaves entirely on the left hand, and upper octaves entirely on the right hand, in place of the original distribution system, which places alternate pitches on left and right sides. It seems intended to more reflect the tonal layout of a piano keyboard, allowing fingering in a manner that more reflect a piano - it is one of the Duet styles of concertina layout.'

In the recent TV doco series which has recoloured the film footage of WWI, there was a fleeting shot of a man in an army uniform playing an accordion. The footage was repeated in two places in the same episode, with different datings - one before the war, and one during it or just after it. It had a piano keyboard, but I was interested that it did not seem to have a 'normal' left side. The series was repeated, and I looked more carefully (my recorder not working) and saw what seemed to be a 'button box' left side layout with about 2 rows of 4 large buttons - it MAY have been an 8 bass 'stradella' layout, difficult to tell, and the 'original sound' was not there of course.

Robin


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 09:23 AM

G'day again Foolestroupe/Robin,

I'm afraid the Itinerari d'immagini is a fairly local guidebook to the Italian collection ... Christiaan Dolislager picked up some copies while negotiating with Italian makers for his own branded piano accordions. I simply quoted it because it had good examples to reinforce the datings I have acquired by a long process of diffuse osmosis.

In re your pre-WW I piano accordion with minimal basses ... the least I have seen is 12 - sort of "Stradella", because they were vertically arrayed in fifths ... but the '10s and '20s were a period in which accordion bass ends were in a fair ferment. This is when the button accordion, generally, lost most of its complicated bass ends (until Hohner / Jimmy Shand grafted the full Stradella bass onto the "British Chromatic Accordion" [B/C/C#]) ... I could (just) believe almost anything might have happened in those decades!

Maccann (that is how Prof. Maccann always spelled his name) ... I can't really see much real relationship with the English Concertina beyond being another same-note-in and-out scheme. No other instrument on God's earth has ever emulated the Wheatstone scheme's alternation from hand to hand (and I have to work on my English ... acquired unbidden - but just as I need to look at some interesting possibilities of the system [Danny Spooner's chordal approach to English accompaniment] ... after I have restored it.)

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,Lindswidder
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:03 AM

hi to E the R, I have been a "member" but something seems to happen occasionally which means I have to keep "signing in" all the time, dunno what, I'm a complete deadhead when it comes to figuring this thing out...

One thing, never take me too seriously, I confess to having a banjo too, a magnificent 5 string beast that was my father's, and a lovely Neapolitan mandolin aged over 100 years that was given to my grandmother by one of her patients "between the wars"....loads of other odds and ends, but my accordion is closest to my heart (or should I say nipples, especially when played in the nude. v. painful)


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: pavane
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 02:02 AM

I understood that Wheatstone's system was meant to assist when sight-reading, because the notes on the LINES of the staff were on one side, and the notes BETWEEN the lines were on the other side (hand).
At least there was SOME reason for it.


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 06:45 AM

G'day Pavane,

Actually, it's probably the fastest melody playing instrument in captivity - splitting the note-playing equally between hands allows very rapid passages ... but it is pure hell to add a discrete chordal accompaniment! The stage virtuosi mainly used parallel harmonies, playing in, say, parallel fifths ... then moving the parallel line to (say ... ) octaves ... or thirds ... or tenths! This cna be a very effective technique ... but it's virtually unique to this system of concertina.

Wheatstone's aim seemed to be to create the "Industrial Age Violin" - the standard 48-key English concertina has essentially the same range. English concertinas can be very effective in large concertina bands ... especially if the band has a range of particularly "voiced" instruments that replicate "clarinet", "oboe", "cello", "bass", &c voicings. Unfortunately the losses of two World Wars killed off the Concertina bands and we don't really hear what they could do.

... And ... the burgeoning of the piano accordion, with its ranks of dfferent coupler sounds ... its full range of 'logically' arranged bass chords ... meant a single player could approach much of the full sound of the old bands. (Whether taste in material quite caught up is another topic of debate ... but ...)

Oh yes ... the "right hand on the lines and left hand between" does help sight-reading ... maybe that's why many players of the Englsh system are otherwise pianists or flautists ... ?

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 02:04 PM

I'm indebted to all of you for the help on this instrument. After careful consideration, I've decided that life is way too short to waste time trying to fix and then learn how to play it - so I put it up on eBay here


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,sampson
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 11:59 AM

When recently searching through my grandads attic i found an accordion in a box. on the box is a lable that says.

MARTELLO ACCORDION

B & S london eng and toronto canada

made in germany

i was wandering if this is a well know accordion or if it is worth anything as i cannot find any information on the web

please email me at dhsampson@msn.com or post a reply and i will try and check it


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 01:20 PM

"No other instrument on God's earth has ever emulated the Wheatstone scheme's alternation from hand to hand"

The African thumb piano and the hammered dulcimer do the same.


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,george garside
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 02:43 PM

sounds as if it could possibly be 'the uniform keyboard' which enjoyed brief popularity ? in the '30s or 40's. Full info on this on Hans Palmers accordion page via google

george


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 06:28 PM

sampson,

it is difficult to guess without a picture, if you could possible provide a link to one you have put somewhere on the net.

Some of us may be interested in taking it off your hands for a reasonable price, even if it has to be sent half way round the world. Old things, including even some people, are often worth preserving.... :-)


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 01:40 PM

hello, thankyou here are qa few picturs, including the lable that was on the box
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/dhsampson/S1030448.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/dhsampson/S1030446.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/dhsampson/S1030444.jpg


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: Bernard
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:54 PM

Well, Guest, what you have is a 20 button Anglo concertina, and I'd guess its value isn't particularly high... probably no more than 200 GB pounds.

It's quite a pretty looking one - the bellows papers are more ornate than some. Unfortunately that often means the quality of the instrument itself is poor... sorry!


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 07:04 PM

G'day Sampson,

To elaborate on what Bernard has posted, this appears to be a pretty typical 'East German'/Saxon inexpensive German concertina, probably from between WW1 and WW2 ... made up to externally resemble an English one (say. a typical bottom-of-the-line Lachenal or Wheatstone 'starter model'). I'm afraid that Bernard's < £200 is optimistic!

I have bought similar instruments (for less than $100 Australian)just to illustrate how they look (more or less) like a decent English-made instrument externally ... but their internal reeds and keywork are are very primitive / not at all robust / not repairable when they inevitably break.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 08:45 PM

Thanks Guest - I do hope that it has not been stored on i's side like Pic 1 - but on the edge like pic 2 - with the bellows shut of course!

If it hasn't, then decades of gravity will have caused damage to the leather valves, which will need repair to get the instrument to sound the best it can.

I've lost count ot the the times I have given this advice to people, only to come back to the shop window a week later to find instruments stored in the way that is guaranteed to cause damage, and reduce value!


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,sampson
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 10:13 AM

thanks all that is a great help, if i ever come across another accordion i will know who to come 2. and now how to store it. thanks again


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,sampson
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 01:11 PM

if any1 was interested i have listed the accordion on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130178203076&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=003

our dissucion about the value can be determined.


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 06:59 AM

Thanks for the ebay link sampson.


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Subject: RE: Help! Strange Accordion? What is it?
From: GUEST,jon
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 07:42 AM

Those 20 button east german concertinas typically go for £30-50 on ebay, there's usually two or three sold each week. Not sure who buys them as they're generally pretty slow & unresponsive and not likely to last that long either.

They're often in unusual keys (eg Eb/Bb). If you can work out what key it is in and it turns out to be one of the commonly looked for ones eg C/G, then mentioning that in the listing will often add a bit on to the price.


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