US big guns invading Australian politics

Subject: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: jack halyard
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 05:27 PM

Today the United States leadership had the gall to collectively criticise the Australian Labour leader Mark Latham's policy regarding the United States invasion and occupation of Iraq.
I hope there are some Americans who concede Australian the right to have an opposition party that does not follow the party line of the world's policeman.

I can only hope that the business of the ugly Americans ( not the ordinary Americans and mudcatters ) throwing their combined and substantial weights behind our prime miniscule's election campaign backfires and that he is consigned to the dustbin of history.

It has not escaped me that both Bush and Howard are facing elections this year. The mutual backscratching is obvious and offensive enough, but this latest outburst by a string of US public figures smacks of a reward for the toady who stood by them through their unconscionable acts.

                                     Jack Halyard

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 06:05 PM

I would imagine the effect of that would be to greatly boost Labour's chances.

In the same way the worst thing that could happen to Blair over here would be to have Bush say what a great guy he is.

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 07:48 PM

The Big mouth US Ambassador has not realised that many aussies have woken up to the fact that he is not a 'public servant' in the 'British Tradition', but a 'political appointee' in the 'US Tradition'. In Australia, it has become noticeably objectionable for this US tradition to be seen taking over, but that in itself has not stopped it.

Prof Flint - a person highly active in aussie politics, a staunch member of the liberal party, etc, finally woke up to the fact that his continued presence in the public spotlight was starting to hurt the Liberal Party's electoral chances, and cut and ran from his public position, after having his bias exposed. Similar with a pervious blatant political appointment - our previous Governor General.

Hang in there 'jack halyard', and keep the political satire songs flowing - you are welcome to try any of mine (this political material always tends to have a limited life!) if you want... :-)

Robin



Robin

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 01:24 AM

While I have no time for Bush or Howard I think that too much is being made about the comments
made by Bush, Powell and Armitage re Mark Latham. The comments were elicited by leading
questions from Australian journalists which were obviously designed to create just the type of stir
that they did. It would have been much more diplomatic had the Americans not responded at all
but it will probably hurt Howard more than Latham.

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 02:44 PM

Now the US Deputy Secretary of State, Richard Armitage, is saying that Australia could be denied access to US Intelligence if we don't adhere to their wishes.
If this is the same "intelligence" that failed to save thousands of Americans from the devastation caused by hijacked planes, and advised the world that Iraq was chokkers with WMD's, and can't find that bin Laden bloke, then maybe this isn't such a bad thing.
The American taxpayers are shelling out billions every year to fund the FBI/CIA the product of which has the same degree of accuracy as my neighbour who reads tea-leaves.

JG / FME

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 02:46 PM

Arrrggghhh, forgot to put my name again.

JG/FME

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: jack halyard
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 06:44 PM

It's tempting to make puns about military intelligence and oxymorons. I think George Bush has been denying the Americans usable intelligence for quite a while.

One of my concerns, and Ill risk a prediction here, Is the fate of David Hicks, now that he's been charged. I fear he has been charged in indecent haste pending both US and Australian elections.

When he is found guilty- and I don't have any hopes of "If" with the sort of show-trial they will concoct- either he will have a viciously heavy sentence imposed to show the world how strongly the US deals with "terrorists", or he will be extradited to Australia to demonstrate, just before the elections, how merciful a man Bush is, and how much influence John Howard has with great and powerful friends. Howard will then have the chance to show how strongly HE deals with terrorists.

Australia desperately needs some national politicians willing to stand up to the bullying and manipulation of its internal affairs by the United States.
                                       Jack Halyard.

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:30 PM

Americans ALWAYS have a fair trial before the hanging - I've watched Westerns!

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 01:32 AM

There cannot possibly be anything fair about the trial of Hicks and Habib, their capture was illegal, their detention was
illegal, Hicks' Marine lawyer makes all the right noises but he is career military, will he lay that career on the line to defend
a foreigner accused of war crimes? The verdict has probably been already decided, but whatever it is, the whole affair
is a shame to the USA and makes ME ashamed of the Australian Government.

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: Amergin
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 02:01 AM

John Gray you are wrong....we american taxpayers are not shelling out billions and billions of dollars for intelligence research....we're shelling them out to fund the poor rich people so they don't have to spend their hard earned cash to build things like american football stadiums for their teams....and other such worthy causes...

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: Hrothgar
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 05:17 AM

Foolestroope never watched "The Ox-Bow Incident."

It seems entirely appropriate that an Australian should be tried by a kangaroo court.

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 07:50 AM

"Soldiers of the Queen" - pity he couldn't sing all that well Roger... :-)

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 09:45 AM

Bush trying to re-elect Howard: ALP
June 13, 2004 - 10:05PM The Age


Federal Labor president Carmen Lawrence accused the United States administration of working to re-elect Prime Minister John Howard.
Dr Lawrence's comments were the strongest from any Labor figures in the wake of attacks by President George W Bush and other senior administration officials on Opposition Leader Mark Latham's pledge to bring Australian troops home from Iraq by Christmas.

Mr Bush and Secretary of State Colin Powell said it would be disastrous if Australia pulled out, while Mr Powell's deputy Richard Armitage suggested the US-Australia alliance could be threatened under a Labor government.

But Dr Lawrence said it was unseemly for US officials to become involved in Australian politics. "Australians are a proud people and don't much like being told how to conduct themselves by other governments," Dr Lawrence said. "These are conservative friends of a conservative prime minister. "The relationship between our two countries goes much deeper and broader than that.

"It is something that will survive particular administrations, and I think it's a bit unseemly for American senior officials to be telling an opposition in this country how to conduct its affairs and what its policies should be." Asked if she thought the US government was working to re-elect Mr Howard, Dr Lawrence said: "I have to say the timing of some of the comments must lead to that suspicion."

Mr Powell and another key US official played down concerns the alliance would suffer under Labor. Mr Powell said while Labor's troops-out plan would be a political disaster, the two countries would always be close friends.

"We would always have discussions with whoever the prime minister of Australia is and we would always respect the decision of the Australian people as to how they would be led or policies their leader would pursue," Mr Powell told ABC television.

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 09:57 AM

and more on this topic..

Stage set for David and Goliath battle; June 13, 2004; The Sun-Herald
Fasten your seatbelts, the upcoming election campaign is going to be a bumpy ride, Margo Kingston writes.

OK, it's Howard and Bush v Latham at the federal election. Howard's 2004 replica of his fear-and-anxiety 2001 Tampa victory is "Vote for me or the Yanks will abandon us". Venus crossing the sun last Tuesday - an event the world's people watched in awe and that no one has seen since 1882 - heralded the confirmation of Howard's and Latham's war plans, and boy oh boy did their visions of who we are and what we stand for clash. Peter Garrett and the Bush boys bounced off each other to define the election battleground. It's David v Goliath folks, and Latham must be praying we'll live up to our reputation for backing the underdog.

Abstract thinkers have taken to calling Europe Venus and the US Mars. Which planet - which view of maximising the chances of peace and happiness - will we Aussies choose to hang our hats on in 2004?
Anti-war, anti-nuclear weapons campaigner Peter Garrett is a mainstream conservationist who brought greenies and farmers together to try to save our land and preserve our water, and who sang songs which made many of us feel proud to be Australian. Now Latham punches him into a safe seat. Latham really does want to smash the corrupt NSW Labor machine and, through sheer audacity, regenerate the Labor Party for the 21st century.

At the same time, the Bush dump on Latham beside a smugly smiling Howard in Washington was shown to be the launch of brutally explicit threats by the Bush administration to abandon the American alliance if we elect Latham. That is, Bush and Howard have agreed to do whatever it takes to get each other re-elected this year, whatever the cost. Howard is confident he can scare us into voting for him again out of deliberately, cynically engineered fear. Then again, the transparency of the fear politics and its disregard for the national interest of either Australia or America might make some voters think a vote for Howard is a vote for Bush. Some might even think that a vote for Latham would encourage the American people to chuck Bush out and elect a sane, competent and decent administration that would increase the odds of peace and promote enduring Western values throughout the world.

The election campaign has begun, and I reckon Howard will make us vote in August to capitalise on the momentum he and his Bush mates are building before we work out their self-serving spin. ....This election will be wild, maybe the wildest since 1975. It's the most important election in my lifetime. Are we prepared to insist on our independence and demand to be treated by America as a friend, not a slave? Does always saying yes to the United States mean that we can never say no?

Fasten your seatbelts for the "Never-say-no-to-the-Yanks-or-else" election. Margo Kingston's Web Diary is at smh.com.au/webdiary.

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 10:25 AM

(I've now turned off BS threads, but this one is still in my personal page.)

Now it seems that Powell is backpedalling about how a Labour Govt would not jepoardise US relations. The US is despaerately trying to claim that they are not interfereing, but Kerry's foreign Minister has said that if another country said the same sort of things, that the US would definitely feel that way... :-)

Howard is trying to claim Labor is backpedalling on bringing the troops home, but Labor first said publicly in March (when they first started making noise) that some troops would stay.

It has been suggested that Garret will lose Greenie votes for Labour, as his previous green policies will be taken as the benchmark against which Labor will now be seen to not measure up.

Looks Like fun.... we need more songs...

Robin

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 09:07 AM

This kind of crap has been going on in Canada for years. The Yanks always think they can boss the neighbours around. Canada's choice to not join the war in Iraq was met with the same posturing and threats that always come from Washington when someone dares to disagree with them.

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: jack halyard
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 05:00 PM

Re Carmen Lawrence,
                   I personally think Labour has needed a good woman as a leader for years. That she's had the gall to speak out about the US when Latham seems to have been conspicuously quiet only confirms my view. I think Freda Underhill might make a good National leader too. Would she stand for the greens? Anyway, I'm glad to hear how strong the feeling is about the international bully. Good health folks.Jack Halyard

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 05:09 PM

if you all feel that way...how do you think so many of us americans feel about this wanker?

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 09:20 PM

"I think Freda Underhill might make a good National leader too. Would she stand for the greens?"

But it would be polite to sit for desert, I think... :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: Hrothgar
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 07:02 AM

Australia might need a good female Labor leader, but I don't think Lawrence of Amnesia is the one.

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: jack halyard
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 06:42 AM

That's not very nice, Roger. Anyway, I've long forgotten what it was that she forgot. I'm sure that there's lots the prime miniscule has forgot too. I'd like to forget about him. John Howard is the best possible reason for Alzheimers.
                            Jack Halyard

Subject: RE: US big guns invading Australian politics
From: GUEST,lenda
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 08:33 PM

it's not weird at all that the australians let the americans influence australian politics, culture, economy etc. Has there ever been a time that the Australians took charge of their own country? All we really are, and will ever amount to is to the "good son" for a mother who never visits and an "uncle" that just wants to control us... I think it's time for a change... We need more young females in charge and in control, we need stubborn and patriotic feminist to run the country because there is no way an American would get past a group of "organised whining" women. Truely, let's have Germaine Greer in charge and the old hag in her palace out! I've been told that I should look into being a Political Comedian... I've been told to do impersonations because it's hilarious to make fun of our leaders... I've been told to take the mickey out of George W. Bush... But, why should I impersonate The President of the United States when John Howard does a good enough job at that?