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Tech: MSN Messenger
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Subject: Tech: MSN Messenger From: kendall Date: 21 Jun 04 - 05:08 AM I've been using the MSN messenger program to talk to Jacqui C. and we have noticed that as the time goes on, it slowly developes a delay, and it eventually reaches the point where it is so annoying, we quit.Can anyone explain? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: GUEST,Rich A Date: 21 Jun 04 - 07:14 AM Strange, I use it every day and have never had any problems with it. Might it be a bandwidth problem? Rich |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: jacqui.c Date: 21 Jun 04 - 07:20 AM Guest Rich A - thanks for the suggestion but what's a bandwidth? I am a computer illiterate and really need things explained at a very basic level. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: kendall Date: 21 Jun 04 - 04:35 PM well, first came the big bang... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Jun 04 - 04:57 PM Then first learn to use yer PC... then try 'advanced' stuff like IMing and the like... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: Amos Date: 21 Jun 04 - 05:16 PM Why would it be a bandwidth problem? That doesn't make much sense, if they have enough bandwidth to start a conversation, it isn't going to get less as it continues. To be helpful, where CH was merely derisive, bandwidth is a term used to describe the capacity of a network link to carry data, usually in term of Megabytes per Second. A byte is eight bits of data (a bit being one instance of a high or low voltage representing a 1 or a zero). One byte is the number of bits needed to uniquely represent a letter of the alphabet. Here's a table showing the binary representations of the whole ASCII table of numbers and characters. Anyway, a high band-width connection such as that you get through a cable modem carries more data faster than a small-bandwidth connection such as a telephone line using a dial-up modem. But it is more likely that the gradual choking you are experiencing comes from a bottleneck in your system's memory, I would think, if it is keeping the whole conversation in memory so you can scroll back through the page. If your system doesn't have much memory, then adding line after line to the memory used for this purposes reduces the total amount of memory available for running the program in. So it runs slower. You might be able to remedy this by just quitting the program for a few seconds and then restarting it, thus flushing the memory used by the prior conversation. That's a guess. If not, call a local geek whiz.... :>) A |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Jun 04 - 05:19 PM "where CH was merely derisive" Where did I ever claim otherwise? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: Amos Date: 21 Jun 04 - 05:29 PM Nowhere I know of, Clint! :>) It's pretty clear, even irrefutable! A |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: jacqui.c Date: 22 Jun 04 - 07:53 AM Amos - thanks a lot for the very useful information. If we do get the problem again it's worth a try. Clinton - I usually ignore your posts on the basis that they are less of an irritation than gnat bites. You aren't funny and you aren't clever and you obviously in spite of whatever expertise you might have, are not helpful. Your constant negativity will do you more harm than those against whom it is directed and I do feel sorry for you. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: kendall Date: 22 Jun 04 - 10:23 AM CH, we know how to use the PC. That's not the problem. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: pixieofdoom Date: 22 Jun 04 - 10:43 AM If it's a recent problem, it might be something to do with the fact that MSN has just been updated, so you might find it's a glitch that sorts itself out, something similar happened to me before while using it. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 22 Jun 04 - 11:02 AM Actually, I find him quit humorous.
It is always amusing to watch a fresh fish bite on whatever bait is trolled.
Occasionally, dump your cache and remove your temps like Amos suggested you should be fine. BTW - while the 12-clones can read it...we can't .... what is your OS, ISP, and Interface Software ... the information can help determine the root of your problem .... which could be as simple as "peek-hours" ... or poorly configured software such as too small a cache area allocated to your disk.
Sincerely,
They issue a license before you may take an automobile on the road, the same should apply to "the Quail's information-super-hyway." |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 22 Jun 04 - 11:31 AM Then again....you could have some bugs in your messenger....as you spend more time....the "bots" search out and discover that they have an open line to your machine....as more and more of the little "leach type things" lock on....your system slows down.
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Jun 04 - 02:57 PM See... I'm with Garg... we haven't been given NEAR enough information to even BEGIN to help ya JC... So... In your role as a self professed computer illiterate, the best advice I can give you is to go away and learn a thing or two about yer PC, your instant messenger, and how to communicate computer problems to people you want help from... THEN maybe we can begin to talk about your instant messenger problem... And well, I wasn't trying to be funny or clever... and the above is as helpful as I can to be with "a computer illiterate" |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: Megan L Date: 22 Jun 04 - 03:17 PM Carol you have obviously done something wrong on this thread, it hasnt attracted Martin yet ah well 2 out of 3 not a bad score :) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: kendall Date: 22 Jun 04 - 03:54 PM Maybe another bucket of "Chum" will attract more sharks? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: kendall Date: 22 Jun 04 - 04:08 PM I use a dial up. I have windows XP, my computer is 2.50 ghz, 40 gb hard drive, 256 mb ddr. I dump old files and cookies on a regular basis. My useable disc space runs around 80%. What else do you need to know? I don't know a lot about computers, but I have a damn good grip on a few IMPORTANT things. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: JohnInKansas Date: 22 Jun 04 - 07:39 PM Kendall - I don't use Messenger, so I can't comment much on setup issues, but many "processes" have specific limits on the fraction of the available temp (hard drive) space they are allowed to use. Windows XP itself is normally only allowed to use 10% of the free space on your drive, so it is easy to get "bound up" even when it looks like you've got a lot there. Your resources don't look particularly cramped, but it's hard to tell how much is usable for each specific process. Some programs/processes require contiguous free space for their own "temp" files, in addition to the temp space used in Windows for them to run. If the drive is badly fragmented they may be unable to find a "useful" spot to place their own temp files. I don't know that Messenger is one of these, but if such programs "happen" to start their memory in a small block of free memory, they can run out very quickly, even if that's the only "small" contiguous space on the drive. One of the recent (within the past week?) WinXP/Win2K updates addresses a "possible delay" in processing of internal signals, and my installation of that update may have solved a problem I had been having that related to "hanging" signals. (I made some other "fixes" too, so I can't be sure which one worked first.) Unless this problem has been present for a while, there's also the possibility that you've just "happened onto" some of the several "whole network" slowdowns that have been noted in the past week. A very large server, that provides DNS services under contract to many major web operators, was hit several separate times within the past couple of weeks by DDoS attacks. The result was that a whole lot of traffic slowed down for a few hours during each attack. One thing you can do in XP that's not available in most other versions is the Ctl-Alt-Del to open task manager, where you can look to see if some process is eating all your processor cycles, or if the sytem is waiting for an external response. (Click on the "Processes" tab.) Many times, in cases where things slow down, you'll see that some "unexpected" thing is happening that stalls other things from working. If this identifies what may be holding things up, you'll have a much better idea of where to look for answers. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: Amos Date: 22 Jun 04 - 08:14 PM One thing you can do in XP that's not available in most other versions is the Ctl-Alt-Del to open task manager, where you can look to see if some process is eating all your processor cycles, or if the sytem is waiting for an external response. (Click on the "Processes" tab.) Well, I have always used this capability in W2000, and in UNIX systems. Dunno when it first came to Windows -- maybe NT?? A |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: JohnInKansas Date: 22 Jun 04 - 08:58 PM Amos - That's why I said most other versions. It's just a little different in Win2K, requiring an extra step to open which would entail explanation of the details; and it's quite a bit different in detail in the NT versions I've seen. The same (sort of) functions are actually in Win98, but it takes a long explanation of how to get to them. The idea was to suggest something helpful to the particular person who has the problem. Relatively few of our "participants" here use Win2K, and mostly should be aware of the feature. Win98 and WinXP, with a fair sprinkling of WinME users are the bulk of the crowd here, so most of the other (non-XP) users likely to be looking in don't have easy access to this feature. If you'd like, you may insert this in your copy of the previous post. I didn't think it was necessary to the subject at hand. Next nit? Jon |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: kendall Date: 22 Jun 04 - 09:49 PM I went into processes but all I see is gobble de gook |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: JohnInKansas Date: 22 Jun 04 - 10:40 PM kendall - You'd have to look while you're having one of those slowdowns. The usual thing you'd see that might be helpful is that something is using 100% of the cpu. This happens sometimes in memory shortages because the memory manager is moving things around to try to make stuff fit in the available space. The technical name for it is "memory thrashing." There are a number of other things that can cause one program/process to monopolise things, but even if you do identify something here, figuring out why it happens is still a sometimes a puzzle. If the cpu isn't running - at a high percentage of available cycles (> 98%, say) then the system is probably waiting for something to happen. This might possibly indicate that the problem is on the internet and not something on your machine. Even if you identify a "process" that's holding things up, figuring out what program the process is involved with can sometimes still be a mystery, so it's not a magic bullet or anything. It's just one more way of looking for clues to the problem. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: Amos Date: 22 Jun 04 - 11:33 PM John: Sorry, I didn't mean to pick nits, I was just surprised at your statement. Kendall, I would try, as a temporary work around, when this choke-up occurs, to just hang up, quit the IM program completely, at both ends. Then both of you go back on line and open a new session and see if it has accelerated to your usual speed or if it seems still choked down. If it still seems choked down, just as a test is I would then reboot both machines and start a new session and see if it has suddenly reverted to its usual higher speed. This will give a clue as to where the bottleneck is forming -- the application or session layer or the basic connectivity layer. I don't know Windows well enough to interpret the clue but someone who knows the Windows environment should. Regards, A |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 Jun 04 - 12:16 AM Here's another possibility, and a good reason to use a couple of programs in tandem, like Ad-Aware and Spybot Search and Destroy. If your computer is busy doing something else, it will slow down the programs you want to use: Largest ISPs Attack 'Zombies' AOL and Others Move to Block Spammers' Access to Internet By Jonathan Krim Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, June 23, 2004; Page E05 The country's largest e-mail account providers called yesterday for a worldwide industry assault on "zombies," personal computers that have been unwittingly commandeered by spammers and used to send out unwanted e-mail and malicious programs. The Anti-Spam Technical Alliance, which includes America Online Inc., Yahoo Inc., Microsoft Corp. and EarthLink Inc., urged all Internet providers to police their networks more aggressively and cut off machines suspected of being launching pads for spam. By some estimates, hundreds of thousands of computers around the world have been infected with software that lets them be used without their owners' knowledge. Such machines now account for as much as 40 percent of all spam. Large Internet providers typically monitor traffic on their networks and pinpoint machines that are sending out inordinate amounts of e-mail. When such machines are found, some Internet providers block their Internet access until their owners come forward, at which point they are given help to remove the software code used by the spammers before being reconnected. The zombie problem, said representatives of the group, is going largely unchecked because other Internet providers are not taking such action. "We're throwing the gauntlet down," said Ken Hickman, senior mail director at Yahoo. "We're saying, 'Hey, secure your networks.' " The proposal suggests that Internet providers that are quarantining zombies might reject all mail from networks that are not doing so. "If the ISP does not reasonably control abusive traffic, it is at risk of being blocked by other ISPs," said the group's report. "These machines are a security risk," added Brian Sullivan, senior technical director of mail operations at AOL. Mike Jackman, executive director of the California ISP Association, responded that smaller Internet providers generally do watch their networks closely and act when they see zombies. They are doing it because it's in their interest to do it," Jackman said. Spammers "are eating up bandwidth." Jeffrey Sullivan, director of Verizon Corp.'s Internet operations, said his company will not cut off a machine's Internet access until it has contacted the account owner. He said Verizon participated in the group's deliberations but is not a member. The group, which also includes Comcast Corp. and British Telecom, said that the industry should standardize several other practices, including making sure that spammers cannot automatically register for e-mail accounts without verifying their identities. In addition, the group said, ISPs should not have servers -- computers that process mail -- that allow third parties to relay e-mail through them without being verified as legitimate account holders. But the group was not yet ready with unified standards for verifying the identity of e-mail senders, which is one of the industry's biggest initiatives. The four largest ISPs have been testing systems for authenticating senders to make it more difficult for spammers to disguise their identities and locations. The companies are working with Internet organizations that help develop technical specifications, and the process is likely to take until the end of the year. In the meantime, the group urges ISPs to prevent people from sending mail until they have been deemed valid account holders. Usually, the report said, this can be done by requiring user names and passwords to be provided before users are allowed onto e-mail systems. Anti-spam groups that have often been critical of ISPs for not being aggressive enough said the recommendations were hardly surprising. "It's a codification of existing best practices rather than anything that's truly new," said John Mozena, executive director of the Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email. He said that while unplugging zombies is important, the system still depends on voluntary compliance. Mozena's group and others have sought legislation to allow consumers to hold network owners accountable for permitting spam. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: Mark Cohen Date: 23 Jun 04 - 02:08 AM Kendall, if you're still having the problem, you might try this, a suggestion that was made earlier but may not have been made clearly: Open Internet Explorer, click on "Tools" up at the top, then "Internet Options." In the middle box, "Temporary Internet Files," click the button that says "Delete Files." (Tell the machine that, yes, you really do want to do this, thank you very much.) Then reboot, and see if that helps. I don't use MSN Messenger any more, but I've noticed that IE often hangs up and can be coaxed into acting less squirrelly if I clear the cache (which is what you will have done). I suspect that Messenger is tied up with IE in some nefarious way, and may exhibit the same behavior. Then again, maybe not. But it's worth a try. Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 23 Jun 04 - 04:19 AM Well, JIT, if you think Ctr,Alt,Del - is a revelation to most every Win user here....how about?
F11 - expands the screen you are viewing. F11 also returns it.
Or for the poor afflicted newbie with an overly expensive phone.
Throw all those temp files into the bin.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 23 Jun 04 - 04:24 AM BTW It may be necessary to hand delete or change the attributes on some of those temps.Mp>
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 23 Jun 04 - 04:40 AM See.... I'm with Garg Don't flatter yourself Clint! Garg has thrown in much useful information to Mudcat. And if your capacity to assist "computer illiterates" is limited, I assume it's because your grasp of PCs is limited. John in Kansas and Mark Cohen, for instance, manage to help such people (me included) time after time. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: kendall Date: 23 Jun 04 - 06:19 AM We tried going off and coming back to no avail. The problem returned immediatly. It doesn't seem to bother as long as we are typing, just when we activate the talk program. Looks like some good advice, thanks, all of you. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: jacqui.c Date: 23 Jun 04 - 07:49 AM Thanks to you all for the information. I added AdAware last night and it reckoned that it had found and disposed of a load of stuff so we will see what happens when I next go back on. For the next week there will be no problema as I shall be in Maine with Kendall and won't have to rely on a pc to talk. Much better! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: MSN Messenger From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 02 Jul 04 - 07:45 AM The talk program uses more resources than just the text typing. There may be a gradual buildup of things which will slow down the system as discussed above. As resources are taken from the pool, MS s/w does not always return all of it, at least not in a big hurry. Some (there are free versions) utilities such as 'Cacheman' can assist here. |
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