BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)

Subject: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 06:28 PM

I am one of those lucky people who manage to live without a TV.

I am constantly harassed by TV licencing people who demand I buy a licence. This is normally done by mail.

Today one of these people (now run by Crapita by the way) telephoned me. I spoke to a supervisor for a while demanding, they stopped making nuisance calls to me. Whether I have a licence or not is personal to me and I am not prepared to tell them whether I need or have one. Anyone else in the UK had this problem?

Best regards,

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 07:01 PM

Been there with the letter side Dave...

It's a couple of or more years back now but I had a period where I decided my own finances and use of tv simply didn't justify a licence. I used to get threating letters even though I had no device able to recieve tv.

It finished with a series of phone calls following one. I phoned to complain and invited them round to inspect my flat to which I was told "that would defeat the object", presumably meaning that I would hide kit I didn't have for an arranged appointment. I asked about the letters and got something like "well if you are doing nothing wrong, you don't have to open them". My reply to that was along the lines of "but if something is threating me, surely I have to read". I also asked if it was OK to waste my time to wich I got a "YES"

My response to that was to make a second call to them. It went along the lines of "Hello, I've just been informed by a coleague of yours that it's OK to waste my time with threating letters - I've nothing to say but want to waste 5 minutes of your time".

I left the flat soon after so don't know if that approach really would have works but I'd have carried on making time wasting calls to them if they had persisted in thier letters.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 07:14 PM

If this is the worst problem you come up against this year, count yourself lucky. Or this week, for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: DougR
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 07:19 PM

So, are you telling us that in the U.K. you have to have a license to own a TV?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Snuffy
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 07:28 PM

you don't have to have a license to own a TV, but you do have to have a license to use a TV. About $100 a year

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 07:29 PM

The assumption by the Licencing Authority is that EVERY residence in the UK has at least one television set . The form they send you every eighteen months or so has boxes to tick for EVERY eventuality EXCEPT Non Possession of a Television . When I get them I either ignore them or (in the past) send them back WITHOUT a stamp with BIG RED LETTERS saying I do NOT own a T V -Stop harrassing me . This has been known to keep 'em quiet for more than two years .

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 07:31 PM

Meaning what McGrath?

I come accross worse problems in my personal life that I have to cope with daily. I realsise that there are even bigger problems than mine in the world, eg. look at Sudan...

That doesn't prevent me from thinking the bullying tactics of the licencing authourity are wrong.

Perhaps you are are arguing a greater problem makes a lesser one right?

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:23 PM

I get double-glazing salesmen and so forth phoning me at the most inconvenient times; I get spam in my email all the time, and junk mail piling up on my doormat en route to the rubbish bin. This is essentially no different. You don't use a TV to listen to broadcasts, you don't need to pay a licence, so that's what you say, and put the phone down, or write on the junk-mail form before sticking it in the post, without a stamp (surely it's a freepost form anyway?)

And if you have a TV set that isn't connected to any kind of aerial, but is used just for tapes or discs, no licence is required. Sometimes people tell you that's not so, but it is. (Playing homemade tapes of broadcast programmes, if you don't have a TV licence, might be a different matter.)

A universal licence for TV, and before that for radio, is the system we have had here in England since 1922, and it's been the central reason we've had a pretty good public broadcasting system all these years, and it's still pretty good. As a self-proclaimed conservative, Doug, that should be a good enough reason for us keeping it - "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is surely the core conservative ethic.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:37 PM

The Telly Licence people can kiss my arse, if they think I am going to pay for the shite that they put on, just a sample from tonights choice= How Clean is your House? [2 women go to somebodys house, who doesnt clean up properly, say OOOH LOOK, your house is really messy, "you didnty wash your dishes for a week etc" then they take swaps, from the kitchen, say "your house is so dirty that there is germs here!", Waht a suprise!, if they didnt realise that living in a shithole can cause bugs to grow, they must be stupids]

"Kitchen Stress"= [They go to a restaraunt, and some "experts" tell us that working in a commercial kitchen is stressfull!
any idiot with 2 brain cellls knows that, we dont need a telly programme about it!


"Grimebusters"=They follow dustmen [garbage collectors] around for a week, to see how much rubbish there is! "oh look, theres loads of rubbish here!", bunch of crap!

"How to paint your House" [not sure exactlyty waht its called], "if you want to sell your house, you should make sure its clean and tidy, and paint work looks ok" We know this, its obvious!

"Train Station Policemen [or wahtever its called]= a day in the life of British Transport Police=Police stop a druggie, tell him "don't do drugs, its bad for you"
police see a busker, tell him "don't busk here, its illegal"
Plice see a man piss in the street, police tell him "don't piss here, its illegal" bunch of crap!

and Worst of all =Big Brother! =They lock a cross section of the british community in a house for 3 months and spy on them
cross section=
1 Aslyun seeker, a transvestual, a student, a gay, a lesbian [both from hull !], a scottish bloke, and some other people.
[I heard the hull people got kicked out for fighting, and smashing the place up], according to the papers, 2 of the big brother people had sex with each other, so waht, this is not news, its gossip and so wahat anyway, millions of people have sex every day.
And apparenty, they have to do certain tasks each day, like play games etc, and if they don't win, then they get no food!
Who thinks up this shite???
and anyway=who wpould be so stupid to go on big brother, they just want to be on telly, thats all it is.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:51 PM

Thanks for the explaination McGrath. You still won't find me agreeing with agressive/ threating mail of any sort (and I object to junk mail and spam too).

I do share some of your sentiments over you final paragraph though. ie, I go along with the thoughts of "the central reason that...". I think if it was all commercial, the end product would be even more junk (or at least what I think is junk). I think my favourite "bbc experience" this week was not a tv thing but a R4 play on small print which was then followed by something that intersted me on de-salinisation amongst other topics.

I'd argue that people who can and do without tvs, something the authority doesnt seem to believe is humanly possible, do not deserve hassle for that but I would not argue that the BBC are incapable of putting out some quality products or of setting still a pretty fair standard. It's not the fact we have to pay I object to - I think we get pretty good value for money

It's the refusal to accept "No I don't have a TV" that bugs me - it can be a constant accusal of one being a liar. And they don't, going by my experience above even give you the chance to prove you are telling the truth!

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:51 PM

and they expect us to pay, to watch shite like that, they must ne bloody joking!
it can't have cost them more than a few hundred quid to make all them programmes i mentioned!

waht happened to Good telly like, Life on Earth, Life in the freezer,, and all the other animal programmes waht that animal bloke used to do? [i forgot his name now, but he's famous, i think his brother is famous as well [dident he marry Ester Ransen?]

BBC is supposed to Educate, Entertain, And Inform.

they reckon british telly is the best in the world, it isent, its shite.

100 years ago, people used to go to lunatic asylums to laugh at the inmates, [Bedlam used to be a tourist attraction], now we stick them on Big Brother!
it is 21st century Bedlam.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:59 PM

and Around the world in 80 days, with that Monty Python bloke, that was good, [he went to loads of different places etc], that was a good telly programme, but that was a few years ago, not much good telly nowadays.
anyway=telly licence= about $240 dollars a year.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:09 PM

There is so much shite on telly nowadays, that if i didn;t get my internet though my telly [i use internet tv], i would probably not bother having a telly.
on my days off i go to the pub, for music sessions, or folk club, i never stay in to watch telly.

radio is a lot better, ie I listen to BBC's Radio 2 , 3 and 4, there is loads of good stuff on there.

i havent got a telly licence, and i wont get one, until they put some good things on telly.

ps-and i'm not joking.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: woodsie
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:17 PM

Attenborough Richard & David not sure which one was which, one was into wildlife t'other was an actor and director (luvvies!)

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:20 PM

>You still won't find me agreeing with agressive/ threating mail of any sort<

Just a little rider there, If I'd done something wrong, I would accept say a solicitors' letter, or if I had not payed a say a bill for electricity, I'd feel a letter warning me I may get cut off would be justified...

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:25 PM

Woodsie. David is the wildlife one. Richard was the actor.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:27 PM

anywaty= telly licencece people keep sending letters here, saying "stuff like "this is your'e last warnning, get a telly licence, or we send an inspector to your house!2, oh, so they think i'm bloody scared of telly licence inspector then!
ands sent another one="get a telly licence, or we swenbd an inspector, and if he seee's you watchoing telly you could get a big fine=£1000, [or it might be 5 grand, not sure really, i threw the letter in the bin]
anyway=if they come here, i will show them my shotgun licence, [just cross out "shotgun", and write "telly".

to get shotgun licence is a right load of hassle, you sposed to own a farm, or know some body waht owns a farm, [I know Olly [his name is not really Ollie, its Oliver, but every people call him O;lly, and you can put his name on your gun application, if you shoot his rabbits.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:35 PM

Take care here John. You have now suggested you have a tv but no licence and hinted that perhaps even you may have an ilegal shotgun or at anyrate have suggested a means of getting one.

Look after yourself. And maybe request some posts including this one are deleted.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:38 PM

he owns a farm, [bg massive farm, and big massive house, rich bloke!]

anywat=i think telly licence people already been here=
I been shooting one day, with my freind called Steve from Lockington [its near Beverley]
and we got some rabbits, i used to be a butcher, so he gave them to me to skin and portion, anyway, it was a really hot day, so i was just wearing my shorts [proper shorts, not boxer shorts],
and I was cutting these rabbits up, I was covered in blood and sweat [hot day]!

anyway=there was a knock at my door, I answered it, half naked, covered in blood, with a machete in my hand,
man at the door looked a bit concerned, [I was a bit out of breath, when i answered the door, and shouted "Yes?", he mumbled something like "Oh Shit!", then said, "sorry pal, I've got the wrong house", then he ran off, i said "ok then, no worries", but by the time i had finished saying that, he had gone!

Not sure who he was, but he's never been back!

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:42 PM

Cheers Jon, and thanks for adcice etc, but i'm not scared of telly livcene people, if they come here, i will tell them to get lost.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:52 PM

Anywaty=you can shoot rabbits if you like, if you on landowners permission, nd not going off that land [ie if you shooting on you mates farm its ok, but if you shoot them in the park its illegall, [thats like saftey rules etc, ie in case you shoot some people instead, [also they might be council rabiits, and council might not let you shoot them.

[you can eat them, but skinny ones are no good, [too many bones in them],


but don't eat the ones that got that disease, [miximatosis ]
you can tell if they got it, as they all goooey inside, and there eyes looke all wet and drippy etc.

if your rabbits look slimy, then don;t eat them, you could get ill, [i think you can go blind, not sure really]/,.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 11:03 PM

anyway=here is a rabbit joke=
2 rabbits is in the pub, the get hungry and order some cheese toasties, they still hungrty half an hour later, so get some more, 1 has cheese toasty, 1 has cheese and onion toasty,
half an hour later, they=STILL hungry!, so more toasties, first one still has cheese, second one has different again, this timne =beef and onion, now they are full, and drink up, nd go home.
on way home 1st one, [one that has same toasties all night]gets killed by a car [run over], his frend is missing him, he goes home, and drops dead!
he goes straight to heaven, meets up with his frend, his freind says " i suprised to see you so soon, waht did you die of?"

he says "I died of Mixing Ma Toasties"!

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 11:05 PM

I knpow its a shit joke!, only country folk will "get it".

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 12:08 AM

ANyway-
Do rabbits go to heaven?
is there a heaven anyway?

my cousin had 2 rabbits [shes a nurse, [all my family is nurses exept me]

and they seemed like nice rabbits, so i hope they went to heaven [if there is one]

they wasn't really hers, they was her daughters, [i bought them an easter egg once, [1 each!], but they never bought me nothing!

wehn they grow up, [start work etc], i expect threm to buy me something, a few cans, or take me for a pint etc.


they bloddy cry to easily as well ie "can i have an ice cream?" anser = "no, piss off", then they bloddy start crying, "its not fair, etc"

"life is not fair, deal with it!".

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: el ted
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 04:11 AM

Yo folkie dave,
               I didn't have a tv for some years, and of course the BBC can't accept that life is possible without their glorious products! I ignored all the letters, and in the end a little woman was dispatched down to the farm I was living on to issue me with a summons!!!
             I invited her in to play hunt the television, which she did to no avail. She then left in a furious mood because she had been sent from Hull which was 20miles away, on a wild goose chase.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 04:41 AM

Maybe the system has become more 'efficient' since I first married, but for about three years we had neither a television nor demands to pay for a licence. After that we rented a set for a couple of years and bought a licence. Then there was a summer where there was nothing on but Wimbledon, Olympics, Word Cup and heaven knows what other sports and my wife and I got so cheesed off - we never watch sport - that we sent the set back and did without. That seemed to be beyond reason to the licencing people. They could understand people never having a set but having one and then getting rid of it was unthinkable.

But its the British way. My local church gets summons for nonpayment of its gas bill every couple of months. It has never had gas.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 04:51 AM

Ah Sir jOhn.......



I think I'm in love.




Thanks for some good chuckles..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: The Walrus
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 05:57 AM

Sir jOhn,

The majority of the programmes you slagged off were ITV1/Channel 4 (commercial stations) shows - I think the only BBC prog was RailCops.
On the other hand, those you praised in a later post were mostly BBC shows (and yes, Attenborough is still turning out wildlife shows, mostly on BBC2).
Oh, and by the bye - The license fee pays for radio too :).

A quick suggestion for improving Big Brother - Take a selection of 15 misfit voluntiers desperate to get their faces (and bad habits) onto TV, lock them away, set them a series of ludicrous tasks upon which their food/booze suppliers depend,have them propose three members (per week) for eviction (to be chosen by radom selection - unknown to the inmates), Film them 24/7, then (and here's the twist), save the sanity of the rest of the population, DON'T BROADCAST IT - let the self centred buggers go through the whole palaver without getting the spurious fame/infamy they thought they would.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: GUEST,The SM
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 12:19 PM

Crapita?   I didn't know they were charged with collecting TV licence fees. That explains a lot.   I anticipate then that they are working on the same basis as traffic wardens. i.e.: they are 'incentivised' to issue as many tickets/fines as possible. It doesn't take much to work out that any property without a TV licence is going to be fair game to them, as it is an opportunity for Capita to swell its coffers.

A few years ago I was playing a venue adjacent to a local library. Some kids set light to a display in the library, and the whole complex had to be evacuated and the fire brigade called. True to form the local warden clambered over the hoses and wrote out parking tickets for the three appliances which were attending the fire. I suspect Capita are working on the same basis:- issue first, argue later. I'm willing to bet that throughout the UK there are a fair number people without a TV who have paid the licence fee out of fear, just to keep the bastards off their back.

D McG You don't surprise me in the least with the gas bill problem at your church. My current day job requires dealing with this type insanity from utility companies every day. I've even had conversations about how big an explosion it would take for Transco to accept there actually is a gas main on a particular site, and that they should go and fit a meter there:- Half of Newcastle-upon-Tyne apparently.   

We've been told that the huge computer systems operated by these companies were specified by people with little sense of the physical reality, and with no gas or electricity engineering skills: In many cases accountants. This is a useful insight.   I suggest two courses of action for your church.   

1) Say the bill is grossly inflated and refuse to pay any more bills until someone has come to read the meter.

2) Report a gas leak.

We've found the best way of finding a resolution to situations like this is to chuck as big a spanner into the works as possible so that they grind to a halt and somebody has to come out to conduct a reality check.   I'm sure it will come as no surprise to anyone to learn that according to some industry experts, a third of all utility bills issued in the UK are incorrect.   We know of very successful businesses that have been set up just to check the bills of large consumers, saving them hundreds of thousands of pounds a year.

In regard to the Crapita problem, I'm exploring the idea of anonymously reporting myself to the local council for having a TV on at full blast at two in the morning. Hopefully they'll send someone round to investigate. I'm beginning to feel the need for some other part of the 'system' to officially report that I don't have a TV.   

The detector squad have even sat outside our house waiting for a TV to be switched on.   They kindly left a note last time saying they didn't detect anything on that occasion, but we should pay up now as they would be back. If we spot them I might go out and offer them a cup of tea as they are going to be waiting a very, very long time.

Given the enormous creativity and divergent thinking displayed by Mudcatters, I'd be interested in other ideas for 'spanners' to throw into the wheels of a demented bureaucracies.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 12:38 PM

We've been told that the huge computer systems operated by these companies were specified by people with little sense of the physical reality

.. or indeed the mathematical. (non mathematicans may prefer to stop reading immediately.)

When I was doing my postgrad work I shared a flat with a friend who worked for British Gas (as it then was). He had been tasked with modelling the major components of the local gas network as a matrix so the could put an amount of gas in at various points and predict what the pressures would be at various nodes.

He told them they were effectively asking him to invert a matrix of several thousand rows x several thousand columns where less than a fraction of one percent of values were non-zero and such a sparse matrix was so ill-conditioned that inverting it would effectively give random numbers and make the whole exercise at best pointless and at worse dangerous if they relied on the answers in an way.

They told him to do what he was told.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 03:09 PM

I always find that repeatedly replying "there is no legal requirement for me to posess one" really throws the license inspectors. The only ones who fall in are the ones who lied about their intelligence to get the job.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: GUEST,The SM
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 03:35 PM

A senior colleague has a very effective way of laughing and circumventing managers who ask for this sort on nonsense.

I'm working on adopting his technique, and we don't even work on potentially critical systems.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 03:51 PM

the BBC can't accept that life is possible without their glorious products!"

The BBC doesn't collect the licences, so far as I know, so you shouldn't blame them, for the letters - it's the government. It used to be the Post Office, but these days it's some front organisation called TVLicencing with a silly logo - if you want to tell them you haven't got a licence and have no intention of geting one because you don't watch broadcast TV,

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 07:21 PM

Well that has generated a load of interest to say the least.

My attitude is simple. I am a member of the telephone preference service http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/ which stops me getting nuisance calls.

A call asking me if I have a television licence is a nuisance call.

I do not have to answer that question, it is a free country. (Allegedly). If they feel that I am breaking the law it is up to them to prove it. Send as many people around as you like is my attitude. Get a search warrant. I shall cause as much obstruction as I possibly can within the law and the confines of my finances.

In fact I was told that if they "clear" your address for whatever reason (visit/letter/telephone call) then you are free to operate a TV (bought from a mate or whatever) for the next two years.

So I suggested that the only way they can guarantee that I have either a licence or a TV is to have someone around permanently.

I offered B and B at preferential rates.

Best regards,

folkiedave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: DougR
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 01:26 AM

I really am surprised that a license is required to own and watch television in Great Britain. Our National Public Radio and Public Television are supported with tax funds, but also with private donations and donations from corporations and foundations.

I hope the Democrats in Washington don't learn about this tax. They will begin pushing for one in the U. S. and we are taxed too much as it is.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 05:32 AM

DougR: There is a regular review of whether this way of paying for the BBC should be scrapped and replaced by some other scheme. This review is extremely sensible given the way the market has changed continually, but so far it always finds, as the review published on 20/7/2004 found, that it is the "least worst" method of funding.

Here are two different views on the same report: The Telegraph, The Guardian. (You will have to register to read the Guardian article)

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 05:35 AM

Sorry, those links seem to use sessions, so they don't work. Never mind, if you are really interested you can soon find them yourself. Apologies again.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:04 AM

I really HATE having to pay for a TV licence here in the UK. In the relatively short time I've been living here (a decade) I've seen the BBC turn into utter crap. It's so disheartening and to have to pay simply so I can still legally watch the other channels is reprehensible. Shame on BBC which used to have such high standards. Truth to tell, the best programs on the 5 regular channels these days seeem to all be American! How bizarre it that?!!!


..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:17 AM

i agree.john

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 07:46 AM

I'd disagree Ellenpoly. An unfortunate thing to me though is you do need digital to catch some of the better tv stuff which is put out on BBC4. They have even been making efforts with folk music! I'm fortunate enough to live in an area that gets freeview and the main reason I made the one off (till it breaks anyway) investment of say #40 for a box to recieve this stuff was programs shown on this channel. I don't watch a lot of tv but I've not been dissapointed with this little box.

I, even though I decided at one point in my life I couldn't justify it on an income vs usage basis am pro licences. My reasoning is that it does mean the BBC have obligations. I think whatever minority interests (folk is one) get air space at all would be in danger without this.

A bigger worry to me is that the crap we get is largely satisfying public demand. At times I do wonder about the mentality of what one would presume is your "average Brittish punter". There again, they probably wonder about mine, perhaps with some justification...

No, sorry, they probably don't as that would demand thought. They would though if it was reported on tv or they read it in the Sun... I'm being nasty, I know, but I do believe far too many people just want to be spoon fed and take whatever they are told they should like.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 07:53 AM

Jon, BBC4 looks to have some really good programs on it. But of course, as you said, one has to buy a digital box to receive the extra BBC channels. So on TOP of the license fee they're stiffing us for each year, they withhold the BETTER programs on those digital channels. DOUBLE SHAME ON THEM!

Spoon feeding is being kind with the dross being on offer now. I'd say they'd have to strap me down and give it intraveniously!


..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:05 AM

Look at:

http://www.marmalade.net/lime/

This is probably the largest collection of information on the web that describes the problems suffered by those in the UK who do not have TV.

Subject: RE: BS: TV Licensing (UK interest only really)
From: jacqui.c
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:51 AM

The job I have has meant quite a lot of contact with the British public, in written form.

My colleagues and I came to the conclusion, from the cross section of information fed to us from that source that abut 80% of the public share a brain cell and most have never seen it. Looking at the type of programmes that appear to satiate the appetite of the Brits I'm inclined to keep to that view.

I get very picky about what I watch, due to a busy lifestyle, but find that most weeks there's only about 8 - 10 hours of TV I really don't want to miss. About half of that is on the two BBC channels.

I think that the license is a good thing but do feel that a lot of what is shown, to me' is basic crap.