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Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?

GUEST,Lonesome Gillette 08 Aug 04 - 11:40 PM
Bert 08 Aug 04 - 11:42 PM
GUEST,Julia 08 Aug 04 - 11:47 PM
GUEST,Lonesome Gillette 08 Aug 04 - 11:49 PM
Peace 09 Aug 04 - 12:13 AM
GUEST 09 Aug 04 - 02:39 AM
John MacKenzie 09 Aug 04 - 04:07 AM
kendall 09 Aug 04 - 06:57 AM
The Fooles Troupe 09 Aug 04 - 08:35 AM
kendall 09 Aug 04 - 08:57 AM
Joe_F 09 Aug 04 - 10:01 AM
Jim Dixon 09 Aug 04 - 03:53 PM
Jim Dixon 09 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM
Nerd 09 Aug 04 - 05:03 PM
Jeri 09 Aug 04 - 05:39 PM
SINSULL 09 Aug 04 - 08:17 PM
GUEST,Lonesome Gillette 15 Aug 04 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,joe 18 Aug 04 - 12:10 AM
A Wandering Minstrel 18 Aug 04 - 07:45 AM
Tannywheeler 18 Aug 04 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,Learaí na Láibe 18 Aug 04 - 07:58 PM
JennyO 18 Aug 04 - 10:33 PM
GUEST,dwighthobart@hotmail.com 17 Jan 05 - 04:10 PM
GUEST,hyrax@bellsouth.net 04 May 05 - 07:01 PM
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GUEST,Declan 05 May 05 - 05:28 AM
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Subject: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Lonesome Gillette
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 11:40 PM

Anybody know the meaning of the word Rinktum?
Like in the song "Ducks on the Millpond"...
Chorus: "Lord, Lord, gonna get on a rinktum,
Lord, Lord, gonna get on a rinktum."


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Bert
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 11:42 PM

I dunno, but the word occurs also in The Swazi (sometimes Zulu) Warrior.

I kumma zeema zeema rinktum
I kumma zeema zeema zee.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Julia
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 11:47 PM

I've heard a song that has a chorus- To the Rinktum fiddle all the day- by Valentine Doyle
It's about a music party called The Rinktum....


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Lonesome Gillette
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 11:49 PM

Wow, that's interesting. I searched the internet for the word and not much comes up at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:13 AM

It appears in Froggy went a'courtin', and the William Faulkner site that ya get to after googling    rinktum, meaning    says he used it to mean rectum. It is also a meal that sounds a bit like rarebit, so I humbly admit it beats me.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 02:39 AM

errr the opposite of rectum?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 04:07 AM

What you get when you fall on your arse when ice skating?
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 06:57 AM

In Maine, a "Rinktum" has come to mean a party of folksingers. When I first met my supervisor in the Warden Service back in the late 50's, he used that word to mean getting called on the carpet for screwing up somehow. I remember when the Explorer sunk he and I were on our way to Augusta to explain what happened, and he said "I'm getting too old for these jeezly rinktums.
Next weekend I'm off to New Brunswick to have a party with a gang of folkies. That is the annual summer rinktum. In February, we have another one in Belfast Maine called the winter rinktum. Both are invitation only as space is limited.
Now you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 08:35 AM

Is a Rinktum an abbreviation of a wrinkled tummy?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 08:57 AM

Robin, don't give up your day job.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Joe_F
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 10:01 AM

The OED calls rinktum "rare southern U.S. dialect" and "alteration of RECTUM", with a quotation from Faulkner in 1929 ("I'll skin your rinktum").

Webster's 3rd had not heard of that, but does list "rinktum ditty: [origin unknown]: a mixture of tomato sauce, onion, cheese, egg, and seasonings served on toast".

I suspect that the use in choruses is mock Latin like "harum scarum", that "rinktum ditty" was arbitrarily named by someone who knew one of those choruses (an inmate of a summer camp would be a good guess), and that any allusion to the other end of the digestive system was secondary.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 03:53 PM

My father, who was born in 1899 in western Kentucky, and whose forebears probably came from the Appalachians, did indeed use "rinctum" to mean "rectum." He wasn't very musical, but he had relatives who were. As far as I know, he didn't know any song that used "rinctum" as a refrain. If he had, he probably would have considered it risqué, unfit for mixed company, and certainly unfit for a children's song.

I suspect that "rectum" was felt to be a "foreign" (i.e. Latin) word used primarily by doctors—who, after all, often eschew plain language, and are fond of using "contusion" for "bruise," "axilla" for "armpit," and so on. (Plain language would be "asshole.")

My father had a peculiar bias against accepting "foreign" words into his vocabulary. I don't know whether this was an idiosyncrasy of his, or a characteristic of the community he grew up in. It was as if, on hearing an unfamiliar word, he tended to assume the speaker was mispronouncing it, and really meant something else. Then, if he needed to use the word himself, he would often change the pronunciation to something he was already familiar with.

It makes sense to me that, if my father (or someone like him) had already known the word "rinctum" from a folksong, and then heard a doctor refer to a "rectum," he would have assumed that the intended word was really "rinctum."

Something similar was probably going on when "asparagus" came to be called "sparrow grass" in some communities.

Does this help, or am I only spelling out the obvious?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM

Some examples that come to mind:

"Brown-swagger" for "braunschweiger" (liverwurst)

"Sour-deans" for "sardines"

"Chowder cheese" for "cheddar"


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Nerd
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 05:03 PM

I think a rinktum is an asshole who plays hockey...


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 05:39 PM

"Rink" is a Scots (!) word meaning a large open space for bowling, curling, or yes, skating.
"Tumble" (or if we're going to stick to Scots, "tummle") is doing somersaults, cartwheels, or perhaps dancing with wild abandon or just flailing about.

You can stick them together and get "rink-tummle' and it's your basic wild garden party or possibly flailing around in a place you're supposed to be bowling or curling or skating. (Sounds like an average hockey game.) You shorten "rink-tummle" to "rinktum," and voila!

...or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 08:17 PM

HMMM. I just don't see Kendall flailing on the ice or in the garden, 12-string in hand and juggling a curling broom. Doing cartwheels in in a large garden, maybe, but only to distract others from seeing what Seamus is up to in the tiger lilies.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Lonesome Gillette
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 09:08 AM

Thanks everyone, now my band has lots to debate next rehearsal about the meaning of Ducks on the Millpond.
very helpful


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,joe
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 12:10 AM

i've only heard the word coming right after 'spizza' & that most always after '...fall on you're...'. i assumed it was a technical term.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 07:45 AM

its the long thin bit with a loop at each end that fits between the Hinktum and the folderiddlido without which your rifoltheday may become unhitched at high speeds.

Not a pretty sight I can assure you


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:24 PM

Sounds like Wandering Minstrel speaks from experience. The rest of you are probably spring chickens. "Rinktum" occurs in several songs as part of a nonsense-syllable chorus. Look up Burl Ives recordings and you'll see -- also an occasional "dinktum" may turn up. Related species, I think, but Wandering Minstrel may have further scientific info. Tw


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 07:58 PM

Anyone know what's a "doo wah diddy" ?


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: JennyO
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 10:33 PM

No, but you sing it when you are walking down the street :-)


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,dwighthobart@hotmail.com
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 04:10 PM

In west Texas the word rinktum or rinktums refers to the act of rubbing another person's scalp vigorously to the point of pain and is a favorite ploy of pre-adolescent boys. It can also mean to strike a sharp blow on someone's upper arm with a closed fist.   In my opinion, the Faulkner phrase, "I'll skin your rinktum", is a juvenile threat which would involve grabbing hold of someone by the neck and scouring the top of their head with your knuckles. This might also be known as a "Dutch rub" or even an "indian duck rub".

It is a living language. As for the derivation of "rinktum" in the first place...the Scots term may play a part along with the euphemistic modification of rectum.    In actual usage since the 1940s in west Texas the term always connotes threatened punishment in the sense of ,"I'm awn kick your ass."   But, as the simple minded bouncer from Sy's Old Barn in Pampa, Texas once declared before the assembled loafers in front of Dim's Gulf filling station in Miami, Texas, "You know, these people go on telling me how they awn whup my ass but then by God they always hit me in the face."


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,hyrax@bellsouth.net
Date: 04 May 05 - 07:01 PM

I grew up in the southern Appalachians; southwest Virginia. My grandmother (b. 1899) and others of her generation used this phrase: "Hit ain't worth a pewter rinctum [rinktum?]." I always took this to mean some item of little worth, such as (I imagined) a pewter ring, or some kind of small curio. I can't come up with any other references. The new Dictionary of Smoky Mountain English doesn't include the word. However, I'm very doubtful that the mountain people in Virginia were using the word to mean "anus." Would like to hear if anyone else is familiar with this usage.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 05 - 08:39 PM

With me RINGDUM doo dee ay, whack faldee oh, there's whisky in the jar.   Irish nonsense chorus!


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Declan
Date: 05 May 05 - 05:28 AM

Judging by recent threads, you won't get put out of this church for talking about diddy-wah-diddy to much.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 05 - 07:33 PM

I've been looking for this word for a while too - wonder if this triggers anything for somebody?

From the "Arkansas City Republican", July 4, 1885.

Friends, remember that the REPUBLICAN sanctum is now in the rear room of the Cowley County Bank building, directly over the composing rooms. Call and see us in our new "rinktum."


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 05 - 07:41 PM

She was so standoffish they called her Ice Rinktum. And him? Why, he was such a blowhard he never bothered with two facts if he could make one of them up, and he just glided through life like that, which is how he came to be called Skating Rinktum. And he had a cousin who fell on his ass about thirteen thousand times trying to learn to skateboard, and never did succeed -- a problem with the inner ear he inherited from his grandma, they say. He was known as Roller Rinktum. He had a sister called Damineer, as I recall, but she changed her named when she married Jimmy Kiltim from over near Pine Gorge.

Amos


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,jsneed@mines.edu
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 12:35 PM

Usage in south eastern Oklahoma in the 1940-50's is just as described below. The expression was frequently used by one of my uncles.

There was also some kind of kid game where doing someting...I foreget what..triggered your companions to shout "Rinktums!". The first one doing so was entitled to "skin your rinktum" in the sense described below.

I left southeastern OK in 1953, returning occasionally for brief periods after 1978. I don't remember hearing the word anywhere after 1953. My memory of it was triggered by reading Faulkner.


Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,dwighthobart@hotmail.com
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 04:10 PM

In west Texas the word rinktum or rinktums refers to the act of rubbing another person's scalp vigorously to the point of pain and is a favorite ploy of pre-adolescent boys. It can also mean to strike a sharp blow on someone's upper arm with a closed fist.   In my opinion, the Faulkner phrase, "I'll skin your rinktum", is a juvenile threat which would involve grabbing hold of someone by the neck and scouring the top of their head with your knuckles. This might also be known as a "Dutch rub" or even an "indian duck rub".


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: RoyH
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 01:27 PM

Tannywheeler is right about Burl Ives use of the word. His 'Devilish Mary' has a 'rinkum, dinktum, derry' chorus. Not heard it elsewhere though.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: kendall
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 02:19 PM

Phil Harris sang...doo wa ditty it aint no town it aint no city, it's just a place called doo wa ditty, and that's what I like about the south.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Bard Judith
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 09:52 PM

Is a 'fa la la' related to a 'fol-de-rol'?

Apart from being able to deck halls nicely with both, that is....


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 10:21 PM

Check this out:

rinktum tiddy - A dish consisting of cheese, tomatoes, onion, egg, and pepper, on toast

from this webspage:
Vol. 1, No. 1 Dictionary of American Regional English


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Bard Judith
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 10:30 PM

According to several other cuisine websites, the Rinktum Ditty / Diddy / Tiddy is of Welsh origin. If you read the recipe, it looks like a fancied-up Welsh Rarebit / Welsh Rabbit, so that does sound reasonable. Does that argue a Welsh origin for the word itself?

http://music4kidsandmore.com/duckinmillpond.html will give you not only the words but the midi for "Duck in the Millpond", with the chorus of "Lord, Lord, gonna get on a rinktum" (4X)    (Let us hope the 'rectum' interpretation is by now far behind us...)

And apparently the Alka-Seltzer Song Book - "Circa 1937. Condition: Good Plus Wonderful booklet full of period ads and beloved songs of the era...." includes a melody called 'Hi Rinktum Inktum' (with photo of Lulu Belle and Scotty).   Who Lulu Belle and Scotty were, I shall never know - candidates for the plugged product, perhaps, after a steady diet of 'beloved songs of the era'...


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Bard Judith
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 10:45 PM

Ooops, hit the post button too fast!

Here's a great piece called "Rosy Rinctum Mary", available at http://www.missouristate.edu/folksong/maxhunter/1358/index.html - gloss: "The Max Hunter Collection is an archive of almost 1600 Ozark Mountain folk songs, recorded between 1956 and 1976."

That itself cross-links to http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=59230 'Harris, Plantation Songs' a discussion on the database and leads us back to a 'Christmas Play Party' written in dialect by Harris which contains our rinky-dinky hero in the chorus.

Whew! Don't know if that brings us any closer to answering the question.... but at least we can have a go at eliminating some 'false starters'...


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 12:47 PM

I found a reference to a word: spizzerinktum or spizzer inktum
and this note:
"As Merriam-Webster editors have pointed out in their May 2005 newsletter, it has been speculated “that the word derives in whole from Latin specie rectum, literally, ‘the right kind’â€"but that etymology appears to be a misguided attempt to make something more of good old American slang than is warranted.”

Full entry on Spizzerinctum

Another cross-back link to Mudcat:

Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 01:48 PM

A rinktum is what you program into you cell phum.

And doo-wah-diddy (diddy dum) is yegg's rhyming slang for duodenum.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Kaleea
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 02:01 PM

Now I'm really cornfused! I visited many etymology sites this AM, and have sent inquiries to a few "experts." If I ever hear from any of them, I'll post the answer.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,east texan
Date: 07 May 06 - 10:33 PM

So in east texas backwoods the word refers to the outcome of home engineering, such as building a fence or chicken coop. It can be used in either a negative or positive way. It can be used like "rinky dink" meaning that the end result left much to be desired, or with the right inflection, it can mean that it is "the bomb".


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: DADGBE
Date: 08 May 06 - 08:48 PM

Hi Bard Judith,

Here's more about country music duo Lulu Belle and Scotty than you probably ever wanted to know.

Lulu Belle (Myrtle Cooper, 1913-1999) was one of radio station WLS's most popular personalities (in 1936 she was elected "Queen of all Radio"), and a regular on the "National Barn Dance" into the 1950's. She married Scott ("Skyland Scotty") Wiseman. The couple teamed up as "Lulu Belle and Scotty."


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,C Fry
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 02:22 PM

NO NO NO. None of you have it right.When you get a fresh Haircut and someone notices it and says "Rinktums" then they get to rub their knuckles
hard along your sideburns or the back of your head against the grain.
Now if you holler "Vench Rinktums or Venture Rinktums" then you are safe until next haircut.
Everyone in West Texas knows this.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,...................Your Friend Ben..........
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 01:00 PM

My Step dad was born in 1925 in INDIANA. His grandfather used the word rinktum to describe a gaget or sinple but usefull machine or tool. I see you have a new rinktum on your model-"T"there. Yup. Its a windshield wiper.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 03:09 PM

My theory about many of these nonsense syllables found in Anglo-American folk music
stem from Irish Gaelic words that when crossing the Pond lost their meaning. It could be Scot's "Gaelic" also. Hence you have "kimo-kymo bobalinkadydos" all over the place.
Just my take.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Nerd
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:29 PM

Rinktum is another word for icehole....


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 10:07 AM

' musha rinktum doo rum da ....'??


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: topical tom
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 09:47 AM

A nervous stomach experienced while skating or playing hockey.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,JudyBug
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 02:35 AM

My Grandmother, born about 1875 near Eros, Arkansas, used to sing a nonsense song which included the word, "rinktum." I think it was a version of Froggy's Gone A'Courtin' and sounded something like this, "Laddie go t'Rinktum, Kinero." She also sang a version of "Barbary Allen" which is different from the ones I have seen and heard collected.

I was born in 1935 and heard her sing that song often, but I can't remember it well. The word "rinktum" was never used in conversation when I was growing up in Rogers, AR and I heard it only in the song. I always assumed it was a place or a happening, maybe like a "playparty" which she mentioned many times as a gathering for the young people to get together and have a good time with music and games. I have no idea whether "kinero" is combination of syllables or a nonsense word. The song was definitely meant to be funny and the tune sounded to me like Froggy's Gone A'Courtin'.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,H. Molson
Date: 21 May 08 - 05:32 PM

I agree with C. Fry. My dad (born in 1924) and his generation used the expression when they were growing up in Houston. First to call Rinktums got to rub the back of your head near the hairline against the grain of your hair. If you called out Vince Rinktums first you were safe. But I haven't heard anybody use it in years.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:25 AM

A sphing?


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:38 PM

If anyone remembers the old tune, "Hi-Ro Jerum," which contains the phrase "skin-a-ma-rink-e-dood-li-um," we may have now discovered a variation (expansion?)on the Rinktum theme...

I believe the song starts,
"There was a rich man, and he lived in Jerusalem
Glory Halleleuia, Hi-Ro Jerum..."

This was contained in an old "Song Fest" book from 1960 or so.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 May 08 - 03:17 AM

This was apparently the marching song of the American Brigade in the Spanish Civil War. Or, at least, so Charles Parker (of Radio Ballads, not the sax player) told us when he sang it.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Joanie
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 12:40 AM

My father, who was born in 1924 in Central Texas, would come home from work after stopping by for a haircut at the barber shop, and say "no rinctums, no returns" before anyone noticed he'd had a haircut. It was merely an indication to me that he'd gotten a haircut - I didn't know I was missing an opportunity to mess with him! It wasn't until a few years ago that I ever investigated what a rinctum is - it was just one of those things my dad said - never really followed up on it! If my father were still alive, I'd ask him to weigh in on this important matter that has been discussed on here since August of 2004!


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,JWW
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:55 PM

I grew up in Red River County in Northeast Texas and people would say "rinktums" to someone with a fresh haircut and rub the back of their head harshly in an upward motion with a knuckle. My mother says people used to say "Rinktums on your haircut" then rub the back of the person's head. My wife, who grew up in Western Louisians, had never heard of it, neither had her mother, so I decided to look on the Internet to see what I could find.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 10:55 AM

I grew up on Cape Sable Island, Nova Scotia and rinktum or rinctum was term used to explain someone who had gotten into an angry state or rage or fit over something. As in "Johnny got himself into quite a rinktum over all the mess the kids left behind". My mom would often say to me if she saw I was getting upset over something "Now, don't go gettin' yourself into a rinktum over it".


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 11:20 AM

A belly flop at an ice skating rink...? It looks suspiciously like another one of those nonsense syllables for which the Irish people, especially, are famous; i.e., "Whack fol the diddle."


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:22 PM

I always thought a riktum was one of those things you have to pay to download for your cellphone........

I'll get me coat!

Don T


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:23 PM

RINKTUM!!

I need a new keyboard

DT


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Mark in DC
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 02:24 PM

Yes the Texans have it right, especially C Fry and H. Molson. After a haircut, growing up in Dallas, I had to yell Vince Rinktum. If I didn't my grandad (who was born in 1913) would use his knuckles to Indian burn the back of my neck up the base of the head. All they had to do was yell Rinktum before I yelled Vince Rinktum.

I have carried on this tradition with my nephew and nieces. Of course with the neices you have to be gentle. But the boys get a good burn, lol.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Eddie
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:25 PM

My family, from Alabama, used the haircut sense. However, it was delivered in a different manner -- the deliverer made a fist, with his thumb sticking out and down atop the victim's head, and then quickly flipped the fist over, in the process scraping/rapping the knuckles across the top of the head, while calling "Rinktum."

I also heard the word in grandpappy's version of "Froggy": Froggy went a-courtin' and he did ride, squatty-watty rinktum hymeo.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,MacDuff
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 06:58 AM

WOW. I'm from Fort Worth Texas raised by a dad from near Lubbock Texas and we definitely did the haircut thing! Rinctums, no returns made you safe to do the knuckle burn as described above. No rinctums saved your head. All this after hair cuts. Now we live in Indiana and my 5 kids and my wife all get a kick out of this. My 18 yr old son came in last night after a hair cut and made certain he shouted "no rinctums" to each member of the household as he saw them. I thought this was a fun game and started it with my family. My wife who is from near Corpus Christi never heard of it. It is lots of clean fun and a great tradition for a family to pass down. Funny that the girls can rinctum the boys but not the other way 'round.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Hobbie Joe, Jr
Date: 13 Jul 10 - 09:06 AM

My wife just called to tell me this story...

She and our 5 year old son were dropping off our 3 year old girl at day care this morning when he saw one of his sister's classmates getting out of the car. The classmate clearly had a fresh hair cut. Still sitting in the car, our son yells out across the yard, "RINKTUMS!!" Nobody else knew what he was talking about, but my wife was cracking up.

After she called, I decided to Google "Rinktums" and this is what I found. I didn't think I would find anything and was about to give up reading through these comments when I got to C Fry's. My dad was born and raised in and around Houston and he passed the Rinktums/Venture Rinktums tradition on to me and obviously on to my kids. This was a bittersweet moment, however, as my dad passed away just 6 short months ago. :-(   Thanks for the memories, Dad.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 07:40 AM

A Rinktum is the same thing as a tantrum


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Marion of Lubbock
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:26 PM

The Texans have it right! When someone gets a haircut, they better call "Ventchu rinctums" to be safe (until next haircut). If they don't, then anyone who calls "Rinctums" gets to rub the back of their head against the way their hair grows. My family has followed this little ritual for decades. I learned it from my father who was born in 1913 on a farm in Santa Ana, Texas.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 11:19 PM

Rinctum Diddy recipe

Ingredients
1 tablespoon butter
1 tablespoon flour
1 cup sweet milk
1 egg
1/2 lb. cheese, grated
1 can tomato soup
1 teaspoon soda
1 teaspoon salt
Dash red pepper
Toast or crackers

How to make Rinctum Diddy
Melt butter and mix in flour.
Beat egg and milk and stir.
Let cook 1 minute, then add cheese.
After cheese melts, add tomato soup with soda stirred in.
Let come to a boil, add salt and pepper, and cook until it thickens.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 06:07 AM

Some dictionaries mention Latin rinctus (neuter rinctum) as a variant of rictus, which translates "angry, furious, agressive". (The verb of this participle is ringor - "to react to amateurish drumming in Beatles songs" ;-) - the rest is true!).


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 06:08 AM

Continued (because more than two links per post are not allowed):

If you are interested in indo-germanic etymology, run this Russian page through Google-translate.

Vince means "you win" - easy to understand in spite of corrupted grammar.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Tres
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:24 PM

I was raised here in Western part of Texas. Memaw Estelle Stracener was born Hannah Estelle Best in the year 1900. She had many funny sayings and "spizzar rinctum" was one of them Generally, you would hear her say it when she was offering you something to add to your coffee or tea. She'd ask you, "Spizzar Rinktum?" I always supposed it meant "do you want sugar, cream, or maybe lemon). All the grandkids remember these words and many more.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:15 PM

"Something similar was probably going on when "asparagus" came to be called "sparrow grass" in some communities."

There's actually a name for this phenomenon. It's called "folk etymology".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_etymology


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Joanna
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 03:58 PM

In my family, the word "rinktum" means "an ideal solution to a problem."


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 11 - 04:20 PM

My mother. who grew up on a farm in northern TN, had several expressions I remember--one she used a lot when tying to fix something was "Let's just work a rinktum". I have looked for it in slang dictionaries, but stopped short of trying the OED. She also said "I'm hot as a hen in a wool basket" and "hungry as a bitch wolf."


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Rob B.
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 04:30 PM

I dunno whats the fuss - we thought everbuddy growed up hollering "rinktums" when somebody got a haircut. If you was the one what got your haircut and fergot to holler "venture rinktums", you know how those knuckles hurt going up both sides of your bald head. My dad learned it from his dad , who was born in 1884 and grew up in Jewett, Leon County, Texas - about midway between Houston and Dallas.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:30 PM

The OP was asking about the meaning in song choruses. In that case I can trace it back to the early 18th century in England when the word was then 'RIGDUM' and probably related to 'rig', a prank, a bit of fun or a trick.

The series of songs based on the tune and tricky chorus that survive in some variants of the 'Froggy Went a Courting' song and the minstrel song 'Kemo Kimo'. Which of these two used the tune and chorus first is hard to say. Froggy of course in different forms goes back into the mists of time.

The Camp Garland contains the song 'The Oxford Milkmaid's Entertainment at Camp at Burlington-Green. To the tune of 'Gameorum'.
This tune title suggests that the form, tune and chorus were already in existence when this ballad was made in the early 18thc.

The first verse runs

A Milk maid going out of late,
With a Rigdum for a little Game,
To see the Camp it was her Fate,
With a Rigdum for a little Game,
Gameorum wildum gorum, game wildum game,
Can you net a Flummerum, a Rigdum Bolleram,
Rigdum for a little Game.

At least some of these are real words and earlier usages of the chorus may have made more sense. If pushed I'd say it was probably camp followers' cant. The addition of 'um' onto the end of real words is a common form of 'in' lingo practised by some people, similar to the adding of 'y' and such onto the end of pet names and terms of endearment.

There are 26 stanzas of bawdy fun and frolicks with the officers and men.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:45 PM

I might add that 'flummery' of course has long meant polite nonsense.
By 1811 the phrase 'Balum Rancum' was being used to describe a hop or dance by prostitutes in the nude. This would seem to fit the subject of the ballad and may relate to 'Rigdum Bolleram'.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Donald
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 06:22 PM

My great aunt, born long before 1900 in Missouri or Iowa, used rinktum to indicate something positive and pleasurable. Would you like to go see that movie? Oh, yes, that'll be the rinktum!


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 03:06 PM

Then there's 'Whip Jamboree,' where 'Jenny' is exhorted to keep her ringtum warm. Sometimes ringpiece.
That doesn't take much working out. It's a cuckoo's nest.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,levchikk
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 05:08 AM

It's a cuckoo's nest.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Guest:dustyhaze
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:21 AM

In the haircut sense I have wondered for 60 years what my grandfather and father meant when they came in at lunchtime and yelled "Rinctums" at my cousin after he got his hair cut. Also what they did to him to make him yell. At a recent family reunion, he showed me what they did and I was really sorry I had asked. If he was paying attention to them he would yell, "Vinture Rinctums.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: mayomick
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 09:42 AM

The Scots and Irish word for dance is "rince" pronounced "rinka". Could the use of ringtum , ringa , etc to start so many choruses in lively Scots/Irish songs have derived partly from this - an exhortation to dance !


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 06:35 PM

dustyhaze, if you want to contribute to ethnography, please tell us where your grandfather was raised, and what (if anything) your family told you about where he picked up that little ritual, and what explanation he had for it. Texas as well?


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:17 PM

Anyone who grew up in West Texas in the 1950s would know that "Rinktums!" is always plural. The exclamation announces the good-natured attack on a boy who has just had a haircut. The attack is administered by making a fist,with the middle knuckle protruding, and moving the knuckle up the freshly trimmed sideburn with gusto. The only way to prevent such an attack is to yell "No rinktums" before the new haircut is discovered or to prove that the new haircut has already been slept on.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:57 PM

Short for watchyoumaycallit; syn. Hootenanny


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 05:26 PM

Almost ungoogleable


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Sanjay Sircar
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 08:21 PM

1. QUOTATION STARTS Re: 22 May 08 - 04:38 PM

If anyone remembers the old tune, "Hi-Ro Jerum," which contains the phrase "skin-a-ma-rink-e-dood-li-um," we may have now discovered a variation (expansion?)on the Rinktum theme...

I believe the song starts,
"There was a rich man, and he lived in Jerusalem
Glory Halleleuia, Hi-Ro Jerum..."

This was contained in an old "Song Fest" book from 1960 or so.
QUOTATION ends

This song is quoted by Gerald Durrell in _My Family and Other Animals_ as one he sang with his tutor in his pre-War childhood in Corfu, so it is at least from the earlier half of what is now the last century. The family was from India, so they might have carried it from there, unless the tutor taught it to him. Jerusalem rhymes with spruce-lum here, which is charming... I did not know there was a game attached. The full words of the song would be nice to have.

2. These -um endings in verse, genuine and nonsense or nonsensed are not uncommon - e.g. the nursery rhyme "My true lov livse across the sea/Petrum partrum paradise temporie/Perrie merrie dixie dominie" etc.

3. Re: QUOTATION STARTS: I dunno whats the fuss - we thought everbuddy growed up hollering "rinktums" when somebody got a haircut. If you was the one what got your haircut and fergot to holler "venture rinktums", you know how those knuckles hurt going up both sides of your bald head. My dad learned it from his dad , who was born in 1884 and grew up in Jewett, Leon County, Texas - about midway between Houston and Dallas.QUOTATION ends

- Ah done done growed in parts furrin' ter most folkses heah, en ah kin tell y'awl th' kwivverlent cust'm in ole Bombay way out eass-wudds wuz ter cawl out "Chiptotee" ter a felleh whut'd had his hair newly shawn - en ter givum a sharp crack ovet the haid with the nucckles (c. 1969).

The "And no returns" portion of the custom was not used tere, though familiar from other British derived folk-customs in Calcutta 1960s.

4. So how many distinct/unrelated homonym words and meanings does this make so far?

Sanjay Sircar


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:11 PM

"Venture" and "vince" are totally unrelated words which sound similar enough (depending on the pronunciation) that we can safely assume that one of them originated from mishearing the other. Since "vince" is not in current English usage, it might be the older form - in a possibly longer chain of mishearings, creative adaptations, and pure inventions.

Many of the "mock Latin" words used in folklore can be traced to genuine Latin, as used in religious texts, law, classical quotations etc. For example, "dixie dominie" clearly reflects the Latin psalm translation used in traditional liturgies.

Mudcat has many threads about "almost-nonsense" in folklore, explanations varying between safe and preposterous. In the case of "vince rinctum", I estimate 30% probabilty that it stems from real Latin - but only 1% that we will ever find out in this thread.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:36 PM

But isn't sparrow grass actually earlier?

Hm, no, I'm wrong, says the OED, "mid 16th century: via Latin from Greek asparagos".

Another rinktum relative is to be found in Whiskey in the Jar:

With a ring dum doorum da
Whack fol the daddy o
Whack fol the daddy o
There's whiskey in the jar.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Richard Aldridge
Date: 24 Nov 13 - 10:14 AM

When my brother and I were young boys it was customary that we always show off our new haircuts to my father. Without fail, he would tell us to turn around so he would have better access to the back of our freshly shaved necks. Then, he would lick his finger and quickly run it up against those very short hairs (in the opposite direction of their growth) and say "Rinktum". It was sort of a declaration of his approval--although I don't ever remember him disapproving. It was always received as an act of endearment by both of us, and we are not aware that he ever used the word in any other way, or on any other occasion. Funny, but we never asked him what it meant or where it came from. We assumed that it was just another one of his many old-fashioned customs. He was raised on a dairy farm with many brothers and sisters, by highly educated and religious parents, in central North Carolina. Perhaps it was a local custom that somehow migrated from Texas (as was mentioned above).


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Tom Sowell
Date: 19 May 14 - 11:30 AM

My father would do the same as Richard Aldridge. We are also from Texas ( my father from Corsicana ).


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 14 - 01:56 PM

Well, the Latin suggestion's pretty much baloney IMHO (and I work in the language at post-doctoral level at what's pretty much the top academic centre using it). Might be, but far more likely otherwise...


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 May 14 - 05:57 PM

It would seem that what we have here is a word with multiple meanings, and not necessarily all related. Can we take it back any further than the early 18thc? Like many another word meanings can change drastically over centuries, the word 'ballad' for instance. The use of the word 'gay' to mean jolly is practically extinct now. I bet most kids are no longer aware of its earlier meaning unless they hit it in nursery rhymes.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Lighter
Date: 19 May 14 - 07:26 PM

"Don we now our gay apparel" is now sung in American grade schools as "Don we now our fine apparel."


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 May 14 - 10:14 AM

My fingers resolutely refuse to type any gags about Gordons.


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