BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?

Subject: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 10:45 PM

Without giving me any bull about how hard it is being homeless (no sob stories please), if you are a female and are approached/ cornered by an aggressive beggar, what should you do?

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 10:54 PM

One possibility:   take evasive action and start yelling.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 10:56 PM

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Amergin
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 11:33 PM

vote democrat. that will get the agressive beggars out of office...

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 12:34 AM

I guess it depends on what 'cornered' and 'aggressive' mean.
If you're physically trapped and they won't let you past them, yelling might help. So would knowing a few self-defense moves, but you shouldn't initiate any sort of physical stuff.

If it's more along the lines of them just pestering you, head toward a crowd or someplace that has security guards, police or a bunch of bikers.

I have to say though, I haven't ever felt I was in any serious danger. Annoyed, yes, but not threatened. I'm also just a bit nuts, I can act even more nuts given sufficient provocation, and I don't think they know what to do with someone crazier than they are.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 12:59 AM

I'm with Jeri- what does 'aggressive' mean? Persistent? Disrespectful? Profane? I try to keep it light, and I'd be out of there is it turned ugly.

The other day as I was passing a man in a wheelchair he held up a booklet and said, Would you like to buy this book? Ony $2.00.

I stopped and looked at the book. I said, I don't need the book but I'll donate $2.00 to the cause. And handed him two dollars.

He said, Could you make it $5.00? Or $10.00?

I said, Don't shove me. willie.

We both laughed and I went on dpwm tje street.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 01:59 AM

"Without giving me any bull about how hard it is being homeless (no sob stories please), if you are a female and are approached/ cornered by an aggressive beggar, what should you do?"

Speak just as you spoke in the above sentence. That ought to do it!

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: GUEST,KT
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 02:09 AM

Too funy, Ebbie!!

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 02:25 AM

I got approached the other day and asked for money for food. I said I was unemployed, and she was most apologetic.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: el ted
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 04:01 AM

shoot the buggers!

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 07:17 AM

Working in London I've developed my own method of dealing with beggars. The first rule is never to take for granted that any beggar will not behave in an aggressive manner - always be on guard.

I have got into the habit, in common with a lot of Londoners, of just not 'seeing' them. This may sound callous but, with the number of beggars around in town, that is the only way that I can cope. If no eye contact is made and there is no reaction to their calling out they will generally not pursue me, going rather for someone who may look like a softer touch.

In extremis - I would do a Thatcher and 'it 'em wiv me 'andbag! Trust me, I carry everything but the kitchen sink - a thump with my bag would HURT!

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 07:29 AM

"aggressive" is not a beggar. That's a mugger - or at least potentially so.

Of course it depends on just how aggressive; but unexpected "persistence" may be just for the purpose of sizing you up to decide how much he (or she) can get away with, and any response other than firmly and quickly exiting the situation may be dangerous. If it requires yelling for help, then do so.

Any such incident that makes you uncomfortable should also be immediately reported to authorities (police, usually), even if you are able to terminate the situation successfully; since anyone who presents a threat to you may do so to others. The police are equiped to advise persons with "problems" in the appropriate assistance available in most areas. At least in my area, the police will accept anonymous reports, if you wish.

John

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 07:41 AM

Under normal circumstances my attitude is 'Live and Let Live' , but
any 'Beggar' who is at all aggressive NEEDS to be reported to the appropriate authorities . If its a shopping center , Security , if its on the street , then tell the Cops .

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 08:49 AM

Trust your instincts
Last New years day I was coming back from a gig in Birmingham. I was sat at a table having a cuppa when out of the corner of my eye I saw someone heading my way, and I new I was going to get tapped.
So as the Guy approaches I said, "don't bother" he replies quick as a flash I only wanted change for the phone and holds up a pound coin.
Being a decent sort of s chap I felt rather bad about what I'd said.
Any way as I finished my tea I watched as this guy tapped several other people in the station for money and eventually he was removed.

My instincts were right

PP

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 10:21 AM

Ted, your spelling's getting worse! :0)
SJ

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Matt_R
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 10:59 AM

KNEE TO THE GROIN

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 11:15 AM

Pepper spray...

If yer close enough to knee him, you're already WAY too close

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: el ted
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 11:34 AM

transport them to Australia.... ooh... we can't do that anymore can we?

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 11:51 AM

It's too easy to miss with the knee to the groin. Always use your shin.

...maybe your ticket on the last train to glory,
Is that stranger who was sleeping on your floor.. (Last Train to Glory, recorded by Harry Tuft on Folk Legacy)

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 12:00 PM

So how should we deal with aggressive beggars on Mudcat? Like Fartin Gibberass?

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 12:18 PM

I once passed a guy with a sign saying that he was cold and hungry, and gave him a recently bought, sealed-up package of sandwiches which I hadn't needed because there'd been a buffet at the meeting I'd just attended. He slung them back at me and called me a very unpleasant name.

I haven't given anything since then. My usual reply to "Have you got any loose change ?" is "Yes thank you - but I could always do with a bit more".

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 12:36 PM

I'd like to hit them with those snappy remarks everyone thinks of too late:
"any spare change?"
"sorry, nothing but large bills."
... but of course I just do the usual cowardly thing and walk by without acknowledgeing their plea. I never get aggressors because my eyebrows meet in the middle.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: mike the knife
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 02:39 PM

There is a difference between the sweet panhandler of lore & the aggressive predator. The latter is more often than not an EDP (emotionally disturbed person) or is a serious user of alcohol/drugs. This group will select 'sheep' out of a crowd for culling- they're looking for a soft mark. Don't get caught in blind areas- corners, construction scaffolding, etc. If you look as if you will put up a good fight, or simply have a 'look' that sends a no-nonsense message- that will scare off most all but the serious nutjobs, they, in turn have nothing to lose & will often attack if they feel challenged. Many/most are armed w/ at least an edged or impact weapon of some sort. There was the incident (Boston I think) where a woman was hit in the head at random w/ a brick by a "homeless" person w/ a history of serious mental illness. I knew a guy who, in Rome kicked a kid in the chest when a group of kids swarmed him & started rifling his pockets & tugging at his camera. He sent the lead kid sprawling the rest took off. We had "homeless" who would cadge money & scrounge food off of the patrons of the outdoor cafes in Heidelberg- the Rathaus (city hall) was right there, cheek-to-jowl on the square- these folks knew they had the legal right to be near/on public property. One guy had the nerve to ask if he could "borrow" a handtruck I was using to move some kegs around. Good for a laugh- Junkies can be funny & clever. Desperate, but funny. I've run many off by simply saying "sorry" & there was no problem, others I've had to knock to the ground. These are not cute, fuzzy bunnies I'm talking about here. Not all are predatory vermin, some are really sad. A quick story: A friend in Berlin had mentioned a woman on the subway who would walk up to you, drop to her knees and moan & wail, pull up her coatsleeve to reveal a horrible, hand-sized ulcerated sore on her arm. She would remain on her knees & wail at you until you gave her money & then she'd move on to someone else. I thought he was kidding- until I was on the U-Bahn in another part of town- sure enough, here she comes & pulled the stunt about 2 seats away from me. Amazing.
Living in Berlin, NYC & etc. you get used to seeing these things- and perhaps I'm a tad hyper-vigilant- but I have NO patience/sympathy for the predatory panhandler, but I'll gladly bring food to those I know to be really down & out & legitimately looking for a meal.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 02:57 PM

Now what's an aggressive beggar? I have to recall my expereinces in North Africa. They didn't stand in the way, but followed us extending theit hands an whining about their needs.
The best way to get rid of them I witnessed was performed by a friend, then freshly graduated arabist, now professor in Harvard:
He pointed to his ear and said: Akhras! = deaf!
Off the beggar went.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 03:12 PM

Elbow to the windpipe (if you're stuck in that close).

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 03:28 PM

A knee to the groin will push the testes up into the body. Hurts like hell (having had that happen after I missed a counter-attack block. But, I still had about three seconds before I 'froze" and I counter punched to the spine of my opponent. I was down, but in a real fight he would have been crippled. A better 'blow' to the groin--and you wags let this one go, SVP--is a slap with the open palm of the hand to the end of the penis. That will freeze your opponent instantly and allow you to run away. Remember, if you're going to play hardball, be the pitcher.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 03:33 PM

Might be a more difficult target tho', brucie (especially with baggy clothes). At least the inner thighs will guide the knee home.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 03:53 PM

is a slap with the open palm of the hand to the end of the penis.

What if the beggar is Jewish?

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 04:46 PM

Like Dave says: Offer them something to eat. This way you find out who is needy and who not.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: el ted
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:46 AM

Explosives anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:02 AM

beggars piss me off, they should shoot them.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: ossonflags
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 07:07 AM

Come on you lot, lets have a little compassion here!!!!!
Do as I do.Get in first and ask them for money/food/cigarettes/sexual favours.Works every time!!!

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 07:49 AM

"What if the beggar is Jewish?"

It will still hurt like hell, cause he's still got the working bit on the end...

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 10:21 AM

I `ad a beggar in the back of my cab once. `e `ad `is dog with `im. Gawd, did it pen and ink. I said where to guv? `e said round the back of the Dorchester. I said I bet you get a good free meal out of the kitchens round there. `e said, nah, I just sneak up to my room so as not to upset the buskers round the front
What am I like?!!

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: ossonflags
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:36 PM

Well, I can stand the pain if he /she can stand the smell.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 08:55 PM

I can't remember the last time I came across someone I'd class as an aggressive beggar - most street people I come across seem to be sitting in doorways looking dejected. The one's who ask for money mostly seem to be polite enough.

I'm sure there are exceptions, and I accept that the culture and practice in different places must vary a great deal, and that this must also colour expectations on the part of people approached by beggars, which in turn can affect what transpires.

One idea that sometimes gets suggested the oine ossonflags mentions - to get in first with your own request for money. You'd need to be fairly unkempt to make that plausible, but I don't think many people who are into folk music would have much difficulty there. Not in the UK anyway - my impression is that USA folk people may tend to be a little bit more kempt.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 06:08 AM

Jim K, I saw a "beggar" sitting in the entrance to BOOTS CHEMIST in Sevenoaks with a dog. Surely, one would have thought that if the fellow was having difficulty in keeping himself in good fettle the first thing he should have done is off-load the dog. I don!t accept either that the dog was is only form of companionship.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: mg
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 03:54 PM

If they are too close I tell them to stand back and they do. If they didn't I would make a commotion. I generally give what little change I carry to those who ask and if I see repeated situations then I will give them food instead. mg

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:22 AM

a good tip=
get one of them squeezy lemon juice things, shaped like a lemon, if they give you any hassle, spray it into their eyes, its stings and will temporally blind them, but won't cause permanent damage.

works for aggresive dogs as well !

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Gypsy
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:29 AM

There but for the grace.............we buy food for anyone who is hungry. And do the obvious......if you are a female, alone, watch WHERE you park, and where you walk. Don't park in the north 40 of a mega parking lot. Have your keys IN hand en route...........it's sexist, but that be the facts of life. Most people think i walk like a cop.......but no one bothers me.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 02:37 AM

The streets of Shanghai (along with many other cities in China) have seen big increase in the number of beggars and there is no social security net.

Many women (and men) run gangs of wee kids who will always hang around the streets where expats go, I will not give to these kids. Howvere I will give money to severely disabled children and people giving them the benefit of the doubt. Jade and I also make a point of buying small items (usualy very cheap) from the old men and ladies on the streets here who are trying to supplement their pension without begging. We have draws full of fans and combs.

Begging here is persistant rather than aggressive which makes things easier, but with aggressive beggars I use a few well chosen words in Chinese.

The aggressive begging in the UK to be honest is more frightening and if threatened a well aimed kick in the shins would do the trick.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: GUEST,pinko
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:41 AM

Has MT Head been in ?

Beggars if aggressive should be given a good kicking. Otherwise just give em a spliff man, they'll be cool.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: el ted
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:53 AM

Beggars in countries other than the UK are REAL beggars, and I generally give money to the kids in Southern Spain, Morocco, Tunisia or wherever I have been. BUT, lets be right, the beggars in England are mostly junkies who have already spent their dole money on drugs!

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: GUEST,cowboy
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 10:09 AM

Out where I live, about half the population wear cowboy boots. Enough of us have stomped on the instep of the beggars with our heels that the beggars now look at our feet before asking for money - and if they see boots, the go to the next person.

Subject: RE: BS: dealing with aggressive beggars?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:38 PM

What would Jesus do?