Tech: fitting a pickup

Subject: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: ThreeSheds
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 05:49 PM

Has anyone any tips for fitting an undersaddle pickup (Fishman Matrix)into a Lowden 012 I know that Lowdens are ready prepared It seems to me that it should be really straight forward. (I wont be hacking any holes into the side of the guitar)
Any thoughts?

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 06:21 PM

Take it to a trained guitar tech

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: GUEST,Guitar tech
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 06:47 PM

What Clinton said.

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: ThreeSheds
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 08:18 PM

I thought this forum was about sharing knowledge

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 09:03 PM

IF you want to risk screwing up your Lowden , thats up to you mate -
I fitted Hot Dots to my Martin back in the bad old days and had to cough up a fair few bob to have a new bridge fitted !! Takeit to a man who knows what to do , then IF it goes pear shaped you can take him to Small Claims Court !!

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 09:06 PM

"I thought this forum was about sharing knowledge"

It is... you've already been given the best advice we can give you...

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: DonMeixner
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 09:37 PM

Ah, that Clinton doesn't know what he is talking about. I mean, how hard can it be? All you need is a few tools, a new set of strings, and some time.

First you take the old saddle out of the bridge. And then you put the new pick up in the slot. Oh, wait a min, you have to get a router or a very thin chisle or a dremel tool and lower that bridge slot by the thickness of the pick up. But make sure it is dead flat in the slot because if you flex that pick up you will break it. Then you put the pick up back in. Wait, you gotta drill a hole through the bridge slot and the top of the guitar, now drop the pick up in and see if the bridge fits back in at the original height. Too high and you have to start over, Too low and you need to fit a new bridge bone.

Next all you have to do is drill a hole for the plug jack, Either in the tail block or through the side. I'd go with the tail block. Then you got some soldering to do and some restringing and reseting the bridge...

Anyone of these things can go pretty wrong I think and double the price of the job.   Hmmm

Or you could pay to have it done, Take maybe an hour and the job will be guarranteed and so will the pick up because I think they loose their warrantee if installed by an amature.

Do you see the point? Best to have it done by someone who knows what to do. If you want to share some knowledge, watch the tech do the job. It is fun to see a skilled tech at work.

And ask me about playing Autoharps, or having a disability and learning to play guitar . Thats knowledge I'll share all night long.

And Clinton actually does know what he is talking about.

Don

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: Gypsy
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 09:58 PM

You can also check out Frets.com.......if you are determined to do it yerself. Might want to try on a less valuable guitar, first. At the very least, buy a sacrificial bridge to practice on. The husband installed his undersaddle pickup without any problem.

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: mooman
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 05:32 AM

I would say this is a fairly simple procedure and I have done it on numerous occasions (but I do have some luthiery training and was a full-time repairer for several years, so I would wouldn't I!).

The advice on frets.com is sound if you do want to attempt this otherwise, as Don says, it's an hour's job for a good guitar tech or luthier.

I would, however, say that there are much better pickup options than the Fishman Matrix but that's just my own, highly subjective, view.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: GUEST,cumbrian
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 06:23 AM

Three sheds,

This is not a difficult process on a Lowden ( or to a degree on many other guitars ), regardless of what some may claim to understand of the process.

Firsty your Lowden should already have a predrilled tail pin hole, ready to take the standard endpin jack preamp. The biggest fiddle here ( after everything is soldered to the right connections on the PCB in the endpin jack ) is making sure that everything is screwed in nice and tight ( outer and inner hex nuts and the outer screw on socket cover.

Secondly, your Lowden is predrilled with a hole in the base of each saddle slot to drop the cable through from the split pickup you will
need for your Lowden ( these are readily available as a variation on the standard Fishman matrix 1 and 2 set ups ).

Thirdly, you do not have to route out the slots for each pick up. Lowdens are supplied with a hard wood shim under each saddle, which, ingeniously, is the same thickness as the average Fishman under saddle pick up. This means that tyou simply remove the shims and replace with the pick elements.

Once the wires are dropped through the predrilled bridge plate holes, you can follow the supplied instructions and solder in the connections to the appropriate point on the PCB in the endpin jack.( This is definitley the most fiddly bit to handle.

The other key job is to fit the battery holder to the neck block. Rather than drill straight into the neck block, it is better to screw the battery holder to a very small block of wood ,just deep enough to take the very short screws and then glue this to the end block. This can then be removed at later date, without further affecting the internal look of your guitar.

After this you will need to fix up the cables running around inside the guitar with the supplied cable retainers that will fix to the inside rim of the guitar.

There are, potentially, issues of string balance to watch out for if the base of the saddle is not absolutey flat, or if the saddle is filed down so low that the string does not exert enough downward pressure on the saddle due to break angle. The former means ensuring that the base of the saddle is refiled flat, however, my experience of Lowdens is that you should not have a problem with this using the factory supplied saddles.

Hope this helps

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 06:36 AM

I should also have stated the obvious, though I'm sure you would have this covered.

Once all the cables are threaded through, keep the soldering as far from the guitar as cable lengths will allow ( also I always cover the guitar areas in the vicinity just in case, spitting solder can do horrible things to a beautiful guitar ).

After you are wired up and before you start attaching things inside the body, connect the battery plug a cable into the end jack to your amp. This way you will be able to check the saddle elements are responding, you will know this by tapping them, and also to make sure that you have no buzzes or hum, which could mean that you need to check your solder joints for touching wires etc.

Sorry if this sounds obvious, but it's worth repeating.

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 08:42 AM

Don, you don't have to do any of that on a Lowden - the saddle-slot's shimmed so you take out the shim and bing0, there's enough depth for the pickup to go in. The holes for the cables are pre-drilled throgh the top, and the end-block hole's the correct size for the endpin-jack, so no reaming to do.

It's a piece o'piss thanks to superb Lowden build and forethought.

S:0)

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 08:43 AM

Ooooops! Sorry Cumbrian, just read your post. Absolutely correct my man! :0)

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 09:19 AM

For the battery-holder attachment to the neck-block I used some heavy-duty velcro, rather than gluing/screwing. Seems to work fine.
S:0)

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 09:43 AM

When I'm not miking my acoustic for recording or performance I use a Barcus-Berry pickup. It works rather well except it tends to get a lot of the high-end strings...

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 10:21 AM

I'm with Strollin' Johnny on using Velcro to hold the battery. I've used it to hold the wiring in place too, rather than the ties which are usually provided. All it takes is an adhesive backed piece and a non-adhesive piece to sandwich the wire, holding it secure and rattle free inside the instrument. It's easier to remove too, in my experience.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 10:24 AM

I've found that the only downside to using a pickup with a cord is where to put the bleedin' cord...

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: GUEST,cumbrian
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 11:12 AM

Must try that velcro idea for cable, thanks Mooh. I hate fiddling around with cables that come out of the retainers or worse still when the retainer comes loose.

I've always been a bit paranoid about using velcro for the battery holder, though I notice more and more companies using this method.
On long haul trips, I always have nightmare visions of a battery playing pinball around the inside of my guitar.

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 11:52 AM

Cumbrian - I've had the velcro in my Lowden O25 for around three years, and in my Martin J40 for about two years, no problems at all. Just needs leaving for about 24 hours before putting the battery into the grip, to make sure it's stuck properly.

Originally the battery holder was stuck in my Martin with double-sided sticky-tape but that was a disaster - broke loose in a few weeks. Dont try that.

S:0)

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 01:34 PM

An aside, for what it's worth, I use Velcro to attach my tuner and pick holder to my music stand and amps, have used it to hold a plastic page protector covering my set list (and cheat sheet) to an instrument stand, cable ties to attach mic cables to stands, and the like. Wish I held the patent on the stuff.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: GUEST,RedGreen
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 02:54 PM

Mooh, ya otter try duktape.

Subject: RE: Tech: fitting a pickup
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:13 PM

Can't Red, prohibited by the courts. Mooh.