Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!

Subject: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Boab
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 03:09 AM

G.W.Bush has contacted the Reverend Ian Paisley with a view to having some effect on the peace process in Northern Ireland. Any Irish "catters" with a comment on this?

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Boab
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 03:10 AM

Joe---I meant this for tjhe B.S threads; sorry! Can it be transposed?

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 04:37 AM

Does Bush actually know where Ulster is? The man's a fool, now that he's on his last term he can do things like this, I suppose Tony the Toady suggested it. Well I've got news for you George W Shrub, clear up the mess in your own backyard, and the other little fracas in Iraq that you dragged us into, and get the f**k out of our problems. The history of Irish troubles go back more years than there has been a USA, and we've had intelligent people try to solve them. So what chance does an ex alchoholic, I've discovered God, and it wins me votes, black sheep of a rich family, think he can contribute to the Ulster problem. You certainly won't help by talking to a bigotted old eedjit like Ian 'I bought my divinity degree' Paisley.
End of rant.
Giok

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 04:41 AM

I forgot 'draft dodger'

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 04:43 AM

well said. what nerve. what an outrage. what a farce.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 06:00 AM

When Paisley is mentioned, I can't help but think of the comedian Dave Allen and his "Paisley" sermon, "Aargh! And there will be a great gnashing of teeth!"LOL.

"Teeth will be provided," was one of our family catch phrases for years.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 07:11 AM

I'm no fan of Shrub II, but if he can get Paisley to agree to peace terms, I'm all for it.

My desire for a final peace agreement in the north is far greater than my dislike of Bush. I sincerely doubt the ability of his administration to broker a peace deal, but there is a slight chance of succeeding at driving Paisley to sign.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 07:15 AM

Paisley will go to his grave thinking up new reasons not to sign. Soon I hope.
Giok

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: John Routledge
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 07:32 AM

At least Bush has his priorities right.

He terminated a question/photo opportunity at the airport with "I'm off for a burger"

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 07:36 AM

It is a bit like sending a nail bomber into a kindergarten. It is another good example of how adroitly that prat conducts his foreign policy.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 09:01 AM

Bush hasn't a clue about the meaning of peace. To him it means killing lots of folks. Avoid anything he has to offer because it sure to get lots more folks dead...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Boab
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:16 AM

I see from a report today that he has also contacted Gerry Adams! I wonder if he can guess what would happen if he could tie Ian's taill to Gerry's and hang them over a clothesline?
   The ongoing attempt to get those two sides together is slowly bearing fruit. Maybe Georgie boy would fancy some of the credit?

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Boab
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:24 AM

Wasn't finished---spatulate digits again, hitting wrong keys!---
I would just like to say that whether or not GW. can reap some credit [however undeserved] from a miraculous and permanent settlement of the Irish problem I hope and pray with all non-aligned UK and Irish folks that the miracle can happen. But like most folks here [and most other places---] I can't glean much that is hopeful from the irrational Paisley.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:41 AM

Listening to the news on Radio Scotland today, it does sound as if some sort of agreement may be on the cards. This would fit Boab's thought about George Wanker Shrub claiming some credit. This would fit with the normal politicians habit of trying to get their name associated with successful projects, even when they have f**k all to do with the process.
He'll be offering all concerned free Green Cards as well I suppose!
Giok

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 04:22 AM

It would have happened without Bush, anyway. Paisley has long ago come to terms with the fact that 'No Surrender' reaps neither him (nor his constituents) any favours in this rapidly expanding Europe.

Bush just wants to jump on any bandwagon that's going.

Green Cards?
Who would want them?

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 04:33 AM

Adams, Blair and the senior NI police chief are meeting in Downing Street today.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: ard mhacha
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 06:26 AM

From a resident of the sick counties, the chances of a settlement with Paisley involved is as likely as building on quicksand, it will be short and bitter.
And bye the way, I haven`t heard anyone remark on the subject, there is no interest from the man or woman in the street.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Den
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 10:27 AM

Bush, Paisley, Peace. Anyone notice the irony here.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 11:32 AM

Norn Irony?
Giok

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:30 PM

My guess is Paisley will say "yes" before he's in his grave, Giok. Ard may not be in touch with it, but there's a new generation who - though they may have little interest in politics - just want to see Northern IReland normalised. Paisley may not be in tune with that, but I think he'll grab his place in history.

Reform of policing has been a colossal factor. There's still a long way to go with that, but it's still come a long way since the state-funded thuggery of the B Specials. If they'd made police reform the top priority 30-odd years ago, ahead of the search for political consensus, the whole process would be even farther down the track than it is.

Does no-one else see some slight irony in Bush demeaning himself to talk to Gerry Adams? Could he be waking up to the fact that yesterday's terrorists are today's statesmen (and women)?

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 06:53 PM

Well, you always take these things with a pinch of salt, but BBC Newsnight seemed hopeful for some kind of deal. One point being made was that if the DUP are willing to play, they'd be far more able to deliver than the Ulster Unionists ever were, because they don't have the DUP breathing down their neck saying "No Surrender", and that'd make it a lot easier for Sinn Fein to go the extra mile.

That's one hell of a big "if", mind you.

And there's no way that anything Bush has or will do that is likely to make any useful contribution to that. I can't imagine that Paisley is going to be in the least influenced by his co-religionists in the USA, if they were to try to make him do anything he didn't feel like doing for other reasons.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:18 AM

Boab, the "Irish problem?"
I always considered it the "English problem."

Seamus

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:31 AM

Well I suppose that the threatened mutiny by English army officers at the Curragh did contribute towards the birth of the sick counties, but surely Carson et al were Irish. Or do I disremember my history? Not that I don't agree with the basic truth of your remark Seamus.
Giok ;~)

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 06:02 AM

Fionn, Believe me, I mix with all age groups and I have yet to hear anyone bring this up in conversation, we are completely browned off with everyone involved, and yes Seamus it is the ENGLISH question.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Gervase
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 07:53 AM

The words 'Paisley' and 'peace' sit uneasily in the same sentence. He may be old and infirm, but I can't see him mellowing that much. Last night on the radio he was quoted as saying the only way he would welcome peace was if it meant the 'total defeat of the IRA'. The evil old bigot's as much of a diplomat as he ever was, it seems.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: alanabit
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 09:40 AM

Gervase, I thoroughly agree with you about Paisley.
As for the comments about "English problem", there is no doubt that the history of empire has included some pretty miserable chapters in Ireland. However, the most important signatures on the eventual peace agreements will be Irish ones. It will be their agreement and they will live with it.
It is not the fault of the Baltic states inhabitants that they have to deal with the ethnic tensions which were caused by Stalin's policy of deportation. However, I wonder how many people want to see this problem resolved by modern day Russia. History is not fair, but we can always have a better go at the present. I thought that a large amount of Ireland's difficulties came about because of decisions made by another country. I thnk it is less important to lay blame than to find a peace agreement. It looks as if this is on the way. I hope so.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 09:56 AM

The only solution is for it to stop being an English Question once and for all. It's a difference between two sets of neighbours living in Ireland, and they are quite capable of finding a peaceful way to live together on the same island.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Boab
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:00 AM

Seamus--thought I had replied to your comment 24 hours back; must have miscued in posting. Re. your comment about "the Irish problem"; I agree with your perception [though not 100%] that the partition of Ireland was as a result of action by the British government. I would ask you to check the text of my posting. I trust you will see that "the English problem" would render the message a wee bittie puzzling? Just so you know---the union of the north and south of your Island would please me greatly---as long as majorities in bothe Eire and the six counties wished it to be so.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: GUEST,Brendy
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:11 AM

"Ulster says NO!"

.... but the Man from Del Monte says YES!

B........................................

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:39 AM

Yo, Brendy, welcome back!
Boab, it's hard to get an artificial, gerrymandered double-state to agree on anything, but I agree with your sentiments and thank you for them.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: GUEST,Brendy
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:47 AM

Thanks Séamus.. never far away....

"I agree with your perception [though not 100%] that the partition of Ireland was as a result of action by the British government"
Well, they could have just given us it all back...

B.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 04:02 AM

I believe it was Lloyd George who said "The trouble with the Irish question is that whenever you get near the answer they change the question" Judging by the few people I know in the republic there is no great desire there for reunion, when it means adopting a load of gangsters as well, and this is what so many of the paramilitaries have become. However we all want to see a wrong righted, and there must be union of Ireland eventually. The ranters and rabble rousers are dieing off or quietening down, and their replacements have replaced rhetoric with pragmatism and cunning. I don't think it will happen in my lifetime, but happen it must.
Giok

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: GUEST,Brendy
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 04:52 AM

"Judging by the few people I know in the republic there is no great desire there for reunion, when it means adopting a load of gangsters as well,"

I think you will find that 'gangsterism' is quite rife in the Republic as it is, even without the formal 'paramilitary' influence and that such activities know no geographical boundaries anyway..., especially in an island so small.

I think the reason they have 'no great desire...' is because they feel they are perfectly 'all right as they are, Jack'.

B.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 05:58 AM

John, I can tell you that the Gangsters in the south would have the UDA and co for their breakfast and that`s only the Government.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 05:25 PM

Yeah, guys, serious gangsters on both sides of the divide.
The ones in the North may have access to better armaments, though.
I lightheartedly liken the situation to the Red Sox winning the World Series this year:
a lot of Red Sox fans didn't want the Sox to win the Series because then they'd have nothing to bitch and moan about.
In Ireland a lot of people don't want unification because then they'd have nothing to bitch and moan about...

Seamus

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: GUEST,Brendy
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 07:52 PM

"The ones in the North may have access to better armaments, though.
Not if the vast majority of the arms dumps are in the South, though, Seamus.
(which of course, we don't know for certain.... ;-))

I think it's all fairly much of a muchness re all of that, and if what we are told is the truth, most of the command structure is based south of the Border, anyway.

But, just as you say that re-unification would take away an avenue for bitching and moaning from some sections, it is my experience that some of the greatest bitchers and moaners are some of the greatest 'armchair' Republicans in existence.

And those people I couldn't give a toss about.

B.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 12:58 AM

Very true, Brendy.
BTW, I think the thread title should read: Bush and Paisley - Pacemakers?

Seamus

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: GUEST,Brendy
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 01:04 AM

LOL

B.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Boab
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 01:15 AM

---or, Bush and Paisley---a case of "Mouth to Mouth resuscitation"?

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: GUEST,Brendy
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 01:29 AM

I remember a John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band album cover, from way back, where Richard Nixon and Chairman Mao were depicted dancing naked together....

Isn't there a mudcatter around here who's fairly handy when it comes to the digital enhancement of photos, and the like?

Perhaps we could commission (or de-commission) him to try his hand at that image...., except with G.W. and I.P. as the subjects

I'm not easily shocked, but.....

B.

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Maija
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 05:24 AM

Well, after the immense success of making peace once and for all in the Middle East he should really have a go at it in another country. Go Dubyah!

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 06:21 AM

Yes "Go Dubyah", or to put it another way, 'Get to f**k Dubyha!'
Giok

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 03:28 PM

Bush will send marines into Northern Ireland, take over and hold elections.
You think you got "troubles" now!

Frank

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 03:37 PM

Operation Motormouth?

Subject: RE: Bush and Paisley--Peacemakers!!!
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 03:51 PM

Brendy got it in one. "I'm all right Jack" is the greatest impediment to a united Ireland.