Help: Alice-in-wonderland lexicology

Subject: OT Help: Alice-in-wonderland lexicology
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 08:42 AM

Can someone remind me which character in AiW says "words mean what I say they mean" (or words to that effect), and give me the precise wording, please?

Subject: RE: OT Help: Alice-in-wonderland lexicology
From: mooman
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 08:53 AM

Hi Roger,

I think it was the March Hare at the Mad Hatter's Tea Party or could be The Mad Hatter himself, depending on which passge you're after:

Then you should say what you mean, the March Hare went on.

I do, Alice hastily replied; at least--at least I mean what I say--that's the same thing, you know.

Not the same thing a bit! said the Hatter. You might just as well say that "I see what I eat" is the same thing as "I eat what I see"!

Does that help?

Richard

Subject: RE: OT Help: Alice-in-wonderland lexicology
From: jeffp
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 08:59 AM

The book is "Through the Looking Glass," and the character is Humpty-Dumpty.

The quote is:

`When _I_ use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful
tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor
less.'

From here, a Project Gutenberg site.

Subject: RE: OT Help: Alice-in-wonderland lexicology
From: Grab
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 09:00 AM

It's Humpty Dumpty, in "Through the looking glass". Luckily this is on Project Gutenberg, so you can find a text version of it here.

The relevant section:-

'When _I_ use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful
tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor
less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you CAN make words mean
so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master--
that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute
Humpty Dumpty began again. 'They've a temper, some of them--
particularly verbs, they're the proudest--adjectives you can do
anything with, but not verbs--however, _I_ can manage the whole
lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what _I_ say!'

'Would you tell me, please,' said Alice 'what that means?'

'Now you talk like a reasonable child,' said Humpty Dumpty,
looking very much pleased. 'I meant by "impenetrability" that
we've had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well
if you'd mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don't
mean to stop here all the rest of your life.'

'That's a great deal to make one word mean,' Alice said in a
thoughtful tone.

'When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty
Dumpty, 'I always pay it extra.'

'Oh!' said Alice. She was too much puzzled to make any other
remark.

'Ah, you should see 'em come round me of a Saturday night,'
Humpty Dumpty went on, wagging his head gravely from side to
side: 'for to get their wages, you know.'

Subject: RE: OT Help: Alice-in-wonderland lexicology
From: mooman
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 09:08 AM

Quite right you are jeff and Grab...I stand corrected!

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: OT Help: Alice-in-wonderland lexicology
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 10:59 AM

Thaks to all for your instant responses, in the best of Mudcat oracle tradition.

Subject: RE: OT Help: Alice-in-wonderland lexicology
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 12:42 PM

There's also a wonderful passage a little later in TTLG regarding the meaning of words:

The name of the song is called "HADDOCKS' EYES."'

`Oh, that's the name of the song, is it?' Alice said, trying to
feel interested.

`No, you don't understand,' the Knight said, looking a little
vexed. `That's what the name is CALLED. The name really IS "THE
AGED AGED MAN."'

`Then I ought to have said "That's what the SONG is called"?'
Alice corrected herself.

`No, you oughtn't: that's quite another thing! The SONG is
called "WAYS AND MEANS": but that's only what it's CALLED, you
know!'

`Well, what IS the song, then?' said Alice, who was by this
time completely bewildered.

`I was coming to that,' the Knight said. `The song really IS
"A-SITTING ON A GATE": and the tune's my own invention.'

Subject: RE: OT Help: Alice-in-wonderland lexicology
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 01:32 PM

*previous to the quote above"
'I don't know what you mean by "glory,"' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't--
till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for
you!"'

'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice
objected.

'When _I_ use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful
tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor
less.'

Subject: RE: OT Help: Alice-in-wonderland lexicology
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 05:39 PM

Is that where Bill Clinton got it? All depends on what the meaning of "Is" is.....................Tw

Subject: RE: OT Help: Alice-in-wonderland lexicology
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 07:10 PM

naww...that was "Blunderland"