BS: holiday depression...

Subject: BS: holiday depression...
From: tarheel
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 08:00 PM

i'm sure it's been discussed here before,but how many 'catter's go through a depressed state of mind during the holidays...(such as thanksgiving,Christmas and new years)
believe it or not,i go through it everty year and i'm getting to the place where i can't stand for the holidays to come around each year!
have no idea what causes it either!'
drives me nutty!(dang,maybe that's why!!!)

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 08:17 PM

its a common and recognised thing, tarheel.

holiday depression

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 08:34 PM

too many obligations and expectations and pressures to meet, eat, & greet......and 'buy'....

guilt trips where there should only be happiness....

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 08:37 PM

I don't suffer from depression around the Holidays, but I know what it's like to be depressed. (And I don't mean when the Mets lose again..) I had a severe depression many years ago and voluntarily hospitalized myself.

I know two Holiday depressions that set in around me in others, though. One is in a woman I went with for many years who lost a son when he was a toddler. She didn't lose him at Christmas, but every Christmas she went through Hell, even though the child had died twenty years earlier.

I know another family whose married son committed suicide on Christmas day, leaving a wife and child. It's no wonder that they still struggle through the season.

Sometimes, people feel depressed because their Christmas couldn't possibly live up to all the Christmas Specials on television (although those are far less common these days.) It can be depressing if you are poor.. especially if you have children.

And sometimes, it's hard to know what makes you feel depressed. Could be the shortness of the days, and have nothing to do with Christmas.

Whatever the case, I hope that you cruise through the season this year, Tarheel. Charlie Poole could help..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 08:51 PM

Chuck, you might also have a bit of Seasonal Affective Disorder and need some Light therapy with those spciallightbulbs. You may read more about it here HERE

kat

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 10:24 PM

If special lightbulbs were allI needed to feel better about today and the most recent time....bring it on...somehow I don't think it going to work,

Micchelle

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 01:08 PM

Try more singing or playing, especially with friends or family---there are lots of great seasonal songs way off the beaten track---but if you don't want to do those, just sing or play whatever you want. Music, especially music you make yourself, can be a great antidote to depression----any time of year.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 02:31 PM

Ron, if it is the family that is at least partly the cause of the depression at the holidays, why in god's name should someone spend MORE time with them? What a god awful suggestion!

If light therapy, time with the family, and cheery seasonal songs were the cure for winter depression, I'd think we'd have heard that from the mental professionals by now.

In my experience, it is family dynamics and Xmas lunatics who guilt trip and otherwise torment people who don't like Xmas for being "anti-social" to the point of accusing them of being pathological, who often add to the depression.

My partner's family is a case in point. All but two of them love Xmas, and tend to guilt trip the two that don't, to the point where they felt they simply had to shut up and take it, and must endure misery each and every year.

Finally, one of two had a decent enough therapist who convinced him he should take his family to the Caribbean for Xmas, and leave his family of origin and all their holiday dysfunctions behind. That was four years ago, they've gone to the Caribbean every year since, and he no longer suffers from winter depression.

So ho fucking ho ho to you too Ron.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:09 PM

Good grief, I just mentioned that it might also be a component of what is bothering Chuck, NOT that special lights would be a cure-all. Just for the record, though, SAD is one source of depression....here's more info since my earlier link didn't work right away:

How does it affect people?

Sufferers have to endure most of the following:

Sleep problems - oversleeping but not refreshed, cannot get out of bed, needing a nap in the afternoon
Overeating - carbohydrate craving leading to weight gain
Depression, despair, misery, guilt, anxiety - normal tasks become frustratingly difficult
Family / social problems - avoiding company, irritability, loss of libido, loss of feeling
Lethargy - too tired to cope, everything an effort
Physical symptoms - often joint pain or stomach problems, lowered resistance to infection
Behavioural problems - especially in young people

The symptoms tend to start from around September each year lasting until April, but are at their worst in the darkest months.

Who does it affect?

The standard figure says that around 2% of people in Northern Europe suffer badly, with many more (10%) putting up with milder symptoms (sub-syndromal SAD or the Winter Blues). Across the world the incidence increases with distance from the equator, except where there is snow on the ground, when it becomes less common. More women than men are diagnosed as having SAD. Children and adolescents are also vulnerable.

What causes it?

The problem stems from the lack of bright light in winter. Researchers have proved that bright light makes a difference to the brain chemistry, although the exact means by which sufferers are affected is not yet known. It is not a psychosomatic or imaginary illness.

More about the mechanisms and what happens

What treatment is there?

As the cause is lack of bright light, the treatment is to be in bright light every day by using a lightbox or a similar bright light therapy device. (Going to a brightly-lit climate, whether skiing or somewhere hot, is indeed a cure). The preferred level of light is about as bright as a spring morning on a clear day and for most people sitting in front of a lightbox, allowing the light to reach the eyes, for between 15 and 45 minutes daily will be sufficient to alleviate the symptoms. The user does not have to stare at the light, but can watch TV or read or similar, just allowing the light to reach the eyes. Outside In have a complete range of suitable lights, all in line with the research findings from medical and academic facilities. They are all available on our pioneering HOME TRIAL SYSTEM, and most of them VAT-FREE for personal users.

Light therapy FAQ

Is anything special about light?

The light must be suitably bright. At least 2500lux (lux is the technical measure of brightness) is needed, which is five times brighter than a well-lit office (a normal living room might be as low as 100lux); brighter lights up to 10,000lux work quicker. The lightbox must deliver the lux at a sensible distance, so you don't have to be sat too close to it. Contrary to the old belief the light does not need to be special daylight, colour matching or 'full spectrum' light; simply changing the lamps in a room to these special types will not produce sufficient light.

Should I talk to my doctor?

We encourage SAD sufferers to seek the support of their doctor. We can supply details of the NHS specialist SAD clinics in the UK, and practitioners in various other countries, as well as comprehensive information packs for medical practitioners.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: tarheel
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:19 PM

kat...thank you for your input here...i've done all of that at one time or another...this has been going on even backj to my early childhood...i'd watch everryone laughing,singing,making everyone happy,but i'd find a place and go cry for minute or two...it was a expression of being happy,i thought,and i wanted to be alone when it happened...now i think of all those folks not around anymore,mom,dad,grandma,papaw,aunts,uncles,etc.,and now if i dont hide and get it out of my system,it just gets me really in a down mood!...hey,i pick and sing all the time anyway,so i wrap myself up in all of that and somehow come through feeling amazingly better about everything...

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:21 PM

Sorry katlaughing, I didn't mean to come off as if I was trivializing the effects light therapy can have on people with winter depression. I use them, and go outside daily several times here in the dark north of Minnesota.

I was reacting more negatively to the suggestion that people who because of winter depression don't like the thught of Xmas present closing in around them, spending more time with their families. That is an awful idea for a lot of people who need to get as far from their families as they can at the holidays, so that they DON'T slip into a perennial winter depression.

BTW, I attribute my brother-in-law's "cure" to be at least partly down to the fact that by going to the Caribbean at Xmas, he gets a huge dose of light therapy, and avoids the family dysfunction stresses (some cope with and endure these better than others). Sorta makes you go "hmmmm..." about what the true causes of "holiday depression" are, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 08:36 AM

And then I woke up this morning, thinking of this thread, and tarheel's original post.

Not everyone loves the extended family thing, and the pressure on children to "love Christmas" is tremendous, because most adults will insist they "do Christmas" for the kids.

My daughter never did well at the family holidays, and would have a meltdown every year. One year when she was 3 or so years old, she refused to open her huge pile of Christmas gifts, and said she just wanted to go home. So we took her home. We were very happy there at home, not so happy with the extended family. She was never shy, always engaged really well with adults and children, did great in school, etc etc. But she wasn't a fan of Christmas, unless it was at home, and just us.

I have a little nephew who is 4 now who is the same way. He just gets overwhelmed by the extended family gatherings, which are often at his house. He either tells us to go home when he gets overwhelmed, or goes off to mom & dad's room and plays with toys and watches videos.

Christmas isn't all it's cracked up to be, for kids or adults. I'm wondering tarheel, if you just weren't one of those sensitive sorts of kids like my daughter and nephew, who don't do well with the intensity of the family and holiday dynamics. Even among the healthiest families, there are always stresses and strains at the holidays, and so the merriment can often seem forced.

My daughter didn't seem to have the same problem with the celebrations if she got to be outside a lot. That seemed to help when she was little. Getting out of the house seems like at least a temporary respite from the intensity of all that family. So maybe just going for a walk or something on the "Big Day" would help you depressurize. Or don't celebrate with extended family anymore. There are always solutions, even though others may not like the choice you make about how to spend the holidays, it is still your choice as an adult how you spend your time.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: kendall
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 09:05 AM

I looked out the window yesterday at noon and the sun was just barely above the roof tops. That is depressing.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 09:57 AM

Well kendall, at least you're seeing the sun. Here in the dark north, we aren't even seeing that. This is one of the darkest winters in memory. Very little sun. I'm praying for a bright and frigid January at this point. At least when it gets super cold in Minnesota, it is because the skies are clear. When it is a warm winter, all we see are clouds, dirty snow (if we have it) and brown foliage.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: tarheel
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 06:50 PM

well Guest,you hit it on the head about the childhood thingy at christmas...it did affect me the same way...it wss such a big buildup and then such a big letdown on christmas morning...and the edxtended family folks just made it even worse...

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 02:43 AM

Holy Poop Katlaughing - you just described the last 33 months of my life! I *KNEW* I should have just plugged myself into the mains back then!

A walk is good for a lot of reasons. It gets you out in the fresh air, it gets you away from the noise and chaos of people not doing things as you would (a big problem with some depressives - coping with change and lack of structure), it gets you some exercise and gives you an appetite for all those extra food goodies and turkey leftovers.

I found a long time ago, that my best way to enjoy the day was to not spend it with my family. 7 years ago, something told me to invite my parents to stay with us.. it was the first Christmas in a house big enough to hold all of us, Limpit was nearly 2 and excited about Christmas, and it seemed the thing to do... first time in nearly 20 years. We didn't know it at the time but it was the last Christmas we had with my father. It was as frustrating and annoying as every other Christmas with my parents, but I'm glad I did it.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: Pistachio
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 08:50 AM

I've begun to recognise that I too suffer a festive depression.
I know it has a lot to do with the death of my Dad, on his birthday, Dec 27th 1984. I was in East Germany and had to return to Scotland. Even though his death was sudden and he was only 66 he had had TB in his twenties and was never fully fit. Because of his history and my Mum's knowledge she had the 'required' 3 doctors in agreement that there'd be no need to do a post mortem and we held Dads' funeral on 'Hogmanay' (Dec 31st).(So often there is a huge delay because of the higher number of deaths at that time of year and the holiday factor too.) My family were then able to start the New Year 'fresh' but I believe my pain has never fully surfaced and the 'anniversary' will never fade. I last saw my Dad at my sister's Wedding 11 weeks earlier and I believe he took me to the station for the journey back to Berlin. I now relate tearfully to Eric Bogles' song 'Leaving Nancy' though of course I didn't know it was my last 'goodbye'.

I get poetic when I'm touched by situations and yesterday I went to visit Louise...(by the way she recommends St Johns Wort as a natural anti depressant)....and wrote this when I got home...(meaning to post on the BS Gratitude thread)..

Depressed - that's what my friend is - as she mourns for her Dad,
and her friend, for a husband who died a long time back.
Depression is in my life and though I'm trying to cope
I understand I need a hand and that is why I wrote.
This Gratitude is wonderful; it's making me feel better
that I am not the only one who's begging for a letter,
a post, a message full of cheer, of love, of hope and reason
I'm going to grab the positives and progress through this season.
It is a time when everyone feels obliged to smile,
Tho, they might not feel like that, and would much rather cry
it's an overwhelming feeling an emotional up and down
not sure where it's taking me or when it'll put me down..
a lack of understanding from the people that I love'
that I really wish the best for (them) but only seem to nag
at things not done, of items left around for me to clear
I'm like an old domestic - is that really why I'm here?
I've much to give, too much to lose to sit here wallowing
I need the strength of character and a faith to get me going
What's the best solution, where did I go wrong?
I take on others troubles but don't deal with my own.
I'm not alone, but isolated in my thoughtful mind
forgive me as I ramble..and thank you for your time.

I feel so much better getting this down. Hope you all feel happier too. Hugs, Hazel.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 11:09 AM

Might as well chime in, having dealt with depression almost my entire life.

Lots of what has been said here is right on the money. Depression is triggered by different things, and if the holidays are the only times you experience it, then you're actually quite lucky as it's over in only a few weeks.

For me, never knowing when it was going to hit was much worse. At least on the holidays I knew what to expect. My own "treatment" over the years have been everything from never leaving my home to going out and being with people I really love. Sometimes it works, and sometimes I'm still just as depressed.

I had my first depression-free holiday on my thirty-fifth birthday. I was by then, living in Hawaii, having followed the sun for the past decade and a half because the light really did seem to at least take the edge off, along with the heat. But it was when I was completely alone, kayaking on Maui, and a couple of humpbacked whales came under my boat to serenade me, that I became so utterly joyful that my depression didn't have a chance.

Unfortunately you can't exactly COUNT on experiences like those to happen! So I went on anti-depressants for several years, and seem to have been able to stop the cycle.

So how do I feel NOW during the holidays? Pretty good. I do the things I feel like doing. I am with people if I choose to be, and am alone when that feels better. If I feel like crying, so be it. I have stuff to cry about. Why not on holidays?

Bottom line, if you psyche yourself out every time you know the holidays are coming up, there's a good chance you'll enjoy a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you take it, as all things really should be taken, as one day at a time, to be created as you wish, then the holidays will slide by, and only be as fraught or as joyful as any day of our life can be.

I do hope you get through this one with minimum angst. I agree that walks are great, as are swims, and good books, music, and friends.

Chocolate isn't bad either!!

Good luck..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 11:33 AM

I have suffered - and still soemtimes suffer - from clinical depression, and I find Christmas time quite difficult, not for a specific indentifiable reason but because it pushes up stress levels and builds up things so that I can't deal with all that I need to deal with very efficiently, and so my lows worsen. I don't particularly have a reason to celebrate Christmas, but I like the fact that it forces me to take time off work. I enjoy some of the socialising.

This Christmas I'm off to Libya to work for three weeks. I will not be celebrating Christmas or the New Year (I really can't stand New Year's enforced jollity) and I'm looking forward to working in the desert and enjoying the peace and quiet away from all the holiday fuss.

Take off somewhere by yourself and just chill out through the whole holiday period, that's what I say! Good luck tarheel.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 05:25 PM

The only thing about Christmas is the being with friends and family....oh and the presents...must not forget the presents....

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: mg
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 06:13 PM

If your family is stressful, as mine is, nice but stressful, get a motel room rather than staying with them. Plan nice private as well as family things. Have frequent short visits with them rather than marathons, and always always eat a full meal before eating with family if (a) you have a tendency to low blood sugar and (b) meals can be delayed or are not what you need to eat and (c) stress is high. Take family members who will join you on a walk after dinner or whatever. mg

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 14 Dec 04 - 06:57 PM

Truly an interesting discussion.   I can't speak to the clinical depression part but I do believe a lot has to do with the commercialization, crassness, and "keeping up w/Jones" syndrome.

When I was young gifts (Hannukah in my case) were simple things. Now it is oversaturation of everything. Hannukah has been elevated from a minor holiday celebrating a victory to try to compete (and keep everyone assimilated) with Christmas---same for the lately discovered Kwanza. Look at the ads on TV/newspapers etc;, the news sections---only how sales of merchandise are going. So--if you can't keep up with that and think you should---depression for sure.

Best thing is not to try to keep up with it and do what you think is right. Easier said than done, certainly. My daughter admitted to me that she too feels it has all gotten out of hand and next year (hopefully--I say) she is not going overboard with her kids and us all anymore.   

When I was a child (many moons ago) I am sure that I and all the other kids had this warm feeling around holiday time. Perhaps age enters into a more jaded view---but, surely, our newer society based on consumption changed it also. Our film industry can attest to it--we have come a long way from Its A Wonderful Life to Chrismas with the Kranks or Bad Santa.

New Years---there is the holiday that really gets me. Forced gayety and the enforcement of a "special" evening. I like to think of it as another day---but have, as many, been forced to "enjoy" the festivities.   Do we really care what kind of a ball drops from Times Square?   Do we really have to stand with people (some we cannot abide) and countdown the last few moments of the old year to the sound of the some TV or live performers who are getting paid as any other gig they do---but a lot more.

SO-=--now my depression is over since I have gotten this all of my chest. Mudcat sharing should be a seperate page. My 50 minute hour is now over.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 08:12 AM

Obviously nobody's family, including mine, is a Norman Rockwell painting. Some I'd rather see than others. It seems to me you can talk to those members you get along with and spend little time with the others. If you're at the table, you can steer the conversation toward topics friendly to you, like, given the subject which has drawn us all here,- music--, or possibly, books. This year a safe topic for some of us may be railing against Bush, depending on the views of your extended family.

   Try, if at all possible, to resist the urge to see every Christmas as a milestone, with unfilfilled expectations crowding in on you, and comparing yourself, usually unfavorably, to other family members. Try to steer clear of family members who subtly, or unsubtly, specialize in one-upmanship.

As far as gifts are concerned, try to have a guideline adopted by all family members of no gifts for adults--except possibly selfmade gifts, if you want.   If gifts are still insisted on for adults, give money, and not much. Gifts for adults is a totally artificial and unecessary requirement.

Nobody needs to give in to the commercialization of the season, especially joining the mob scene at the mall.

Particularly, no adult, it seems to me, needs a gift at Christmas. Children, obviously, are a different story.

Don't watch TV---radio, particularly public radio, is better anyway. And, as somebody said, the pictures are better.

If your family really gets you down, take a walk outside, and sing to yourself. Watch birds or other wildlife. Possibly take an instrument and go somewhere in the house to play it, especially if you can sing to it. People may even appreciate it.

Consider that a lot of people have no family to spend Christmas with, and wish they did.


Obvious as it might seem, most of us in the West have a lot of advantages.

If you really can't stand anything about Christmas gatherings, and you don't have responsibility for kids, just don't go. You're convinced you'll have a miserable time before you even get there, which can easily be a self-fulfilling prophecy. So stay home and do something you do like.

Probably very few people like absolutely everything about the holidays. So don't expect to--lower expectations while not assuming the absolute worst.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 08:19 AM

"Railing against Bush"---obviously not you, Tarheel. But music or books should be good topics.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 09:05 AM

And it's Xmas worshippers like Ron, who seek to minimalize peoples' serious problems with depression by saying essentially "just cheer up and join the family fun, ignore all the stress, and be the better man for it".

I wish Ron, you could hear how petty, how condescending, how patronizing you sound to others who don't share your little Christian Democrat worldview.

I will say this though. I'm sure you do dominant the conversation at your holiday table, and make the conversation go YOUR way. That's just the kind of guy you are. I'll bet you're considered the family bore at the holidays.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 11:30 AM

Actually, GUEST, light therapy is recommended by a number of mental health professionals. It isn't a cure-all, of course, but it can help.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 11:35 AM

It helps me quite a bit, so long as I take the SAD vitamin regimen & diet stuff too, and get outside daily at least once a day for at least 15 minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 11:46 AM

Sorry, Guest. Ron's suggestions make sense to me. And he did finish with a wise option - stay away and enjoy Christmas in your own way, if you choose.

Christmas doesn't depress me. But I can't say that it is my favorite holiday. Maybe it's the store decorations put up BEFORE Halloween that make me wonder...

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 01:56 PM

The point is, there is no place to "go away" to escape it. It's everywhere: the media, shopping, the gas station, the dry cleaners, schools, businesses, resorts and hotels.

So where do you and Ron suggest we go?

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 04:44 PM

Guh!! Ellenopoly, never a humpback around when you need one!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 05:00 PM

Guest, I guess it is hard to escape, but what are the options?   Complain about it, change it or live with it.   

The first option is something that is very much in evidence, but it doesn't get anyone anywhere. The results are you end up staying miserable, and you bring others down with you.

The second option is frankly impossible. Those of you who do not like the holidays are in the minority. The holidays won't go away and nothing you can do will change that.   

The third option is to live with it - and that can mean many things. Either join in the fun, or find a way to deal with it. It may require professional help,and I don't mean that as a sarcastic answer. Facing reality is a tough situation.

Religion? Well, I am not a very religious person but I do love the folk holiday that is known as Christmas. There are traditions that I love to celebrate. The idea of celebrating tradition and holidays are important parts of all cultures that I know of.   

No one should force their beliefs on anyone. In the same spirit, I think it is important to understand why people do love this time of year and the goodwill that DOES exist.   Behind all the tinsel and TV specials, there is a feeling of love that crops up.   For some it becomes a time to celebrate family and friends. Reminders aren't a bad thing!

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: mg
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 06:56 PM

You could go into nature..into the desert, the seashore, the mountains. Go to a community where they might not celebrate Christmas -- Jewish, Muslum, perhaps some Native Americans...if you could afford it, there are whole countries that don't really celebrate it..well, if one little sight of Santa is too much it might take some searching...but I find very little where I am by the beach. I would have to seek it out. There are pretty lights on houses...but two blocks away is an ocean you could escape to....There are really only two stores you can buy stuff in and that is mostly clam shovels so there is not too much commercialism. I think the Mexican American community is putting on a Postada ?? but that is only one evening and fairly easy to avoid if you want. If you are female come stay with me for a couple of nights...I promise not to be too cheerful. mg

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: mg
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 06:58 PM

oops. I think I got my threads mixed up. but the offer still stands.
mg

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 08:49 AM

Why thank you for the generous offer Mary! Where you are sounds pretty gorgeous!

I think people are equating complaining with misery, and that is THEIR mistake.

When we know we can't change something, complaining and bitching about it is a perfectly reasonable and healthy outlet for the frustration, IMO.

As to escaping the country, don't I wish I could afford that! I'd be out of here in a flash, and yes it would involve a beach!

No, we stay here, and take advantage of the lack of crowds at certain places we like to go, like the parks, the wine bars, restaurants,etc. We watch movies and/or go to them. We sometimes get together with friends who don't celebrate, sometimes don't. In other words, we try and take it as new years downtime. When you don't get sucked into the holiday business that plagues this time of year and stresses so many people out, it's amazing how relaxing and enjoyable life is this time of year.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 09:38 AM

I'm glad you have a way of dealing with it Guest. Sounds like a healthy plan.

Just remember, we all have different opinions. Some of us truly enjoy the hustle and bustle of the season. Instead of viewing it as a "plague", we dive in and turn it into an adventure.   I am guessing that you probably live near or in a big city and it doesn't appeal to you.   People gravitate toward life styles that they can deal with. Perhaps when the lifestyle or locale becomes a source of stress, it is time to move on.

Complaining and bitching may seem healthy for you, but you should put yourself in the listeners shoes. I'll never forget what a friend once told me about a co-worker - "Don't ask her how she is feeling, because she WILL tell you". It is one thing to mention ones ills and feelings, but when it becomes a regular pattern it serves little purpose. I find that griping is often an attempt to transfer your burdens to someone else, as if just complaining will alleviate the problems. It doesn't work that way.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: LilyFestre
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 10:29 AM

This year I have decided that Christmas isn't going to be one of those stressful family events. I can't see gathering together and exchanging gifts with family who I don't see or hear from throughout most of the year. As far as I am concerned I will spend the holidays with my family of choice...not necessarily the ones I am related to through blood.

I am choosing to spend my Christmas holidays with my husband, mother and friends. If my aunt lived closer, she'd be more than welcome as well. My husband is supportive of this as he just wants things to be peaceful as well. I would much prefer a Christmas day of sitting at home playing instruments and singing with my husband or reading or sewing than spending the day in a stuffy, cramped space with people I can't wait to get away from. The holidays are supposed to be enjoyable....and who the hell can enjoy any forced get together, no matter the reason? Call me Scrooge, but I'm not going to be pressured into all that stuff this year.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 02:03 PM

Yes! Another convert to the Christmas Resistance Movement! Welcome aboard LilyFestre!

I made that decision over a decade ago, and never looked back. It was unbelievable how much my life improved, once I got away from all the phoniness of "family love" crap people espouse this time of year, but are rarely genuine about.

This year, my supervisor (who claims to be a good Xtian, is in her church's bell choir, etc etc), who is one petty and vindictive person, gave gifts to all our school administrators except the one she doesn't like. She also gives the gifts as a suck up to the higher ups, another thing I can't stand.

See, this is the crap I hate about the holidays. Most people aren't loving and giving, they have agendas of giving.

Bah humbug, me sez.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 02:36 PM

Comeon guest, don't say that family love is "rarely genuine". You may have bad experiences, but don't assume that everyone falls into that catagory.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 07:35 PM

Your words Ron, not mine.   

One thing baffles me, and that is why the Xmas worshippers so badly want to believe I've suffered Xmas traumas past to "make me so bitter". I haven't suffered any more or less than anybody else, when I compare my stories to those of others here and elsewhere.

No deaths in the family, no mom or dad abandoned us, no partner abandoned me, etc etc. Just your plain old holiday dreariness. Backbiting, "giving" agendas (as mentioned above and worse), phony sentiments, frightening consumerism among people I thought were beyond or above that sort of unseemly, inhumane sort of capitalist behavior, meanness of spirit hidden and disguised in a multitude of ways, like giving tots to kiddies once a year while slashing funding of aid to the poor and needy...

Oh, I could go on for a long time. But the thing that makes the holidays more drear than anything is the "traditional foods". Gag. It's right up there with Xmas elevator muzak.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: LilyFestre
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 07:42 PM

I don't mind the traditional foods or the music or even the muzak...what gets me is how folks who can't be bothered with you during the rest of the year are now rushing to crawl up my ass with sentiments of love....oh yeah? Actions speak WAY louder than words....don't tell me once a freakin' year...SHOW ME a little more often!!!

I love to give presents but only to those people who I feel it will bring a genuine smile too...why bother otherwise? I guess I'll never make it to the top of whatever pile I'm somewhere in the middle of because I absolutely refuse to suck up at Christmas time or any other.

Bring on the holidays, surround yourself with the ones you truly do love!!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: Peace
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 08:00 PM

I wish I could do that.

I am reminded by your post, Michelle, of the good deeds that get done at this time of year. True, it would be wonderful if that continued all year, but it often doesn't. I do deliver food hampers, but I have always walked away feeling that some folks need a food hamper lots more than once a year. Jaysus, am I ever down these last few days. Think I'll quit here.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: LilyFestre
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 08:21 PM

Brucie,

   I think you are right. There are many people who could benefit from a lot more generosity during the year. We do what we can and it always seems like the holidays bring about even more giving. I don't have issues with that...in fact those are some of the genuine smiles I was talking about.....people who truly appreciate the giving spirit.

   It's the relatives who think I should buy buy buy for their children even though I haven't seen anything than a holiday family photo card in over a year....and you can forget there being a letter or phone call or anything. It's the people who come to my home and make me feel uncomfortable....not wanting them to be here in the first place and then not being able to wait until they leave. It's the phoney, "I LOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVE YOU" that I can do without. The mother-in-law with the nasty breath who talks and talks and talks and never shuts up. I can get up from the table, walk into the bathroom and she follows me...yapping the entire time...blah blah blah blah blah blah for the love of God...SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok....LOL...I'm getting carried away.

Tell me more about those food hampers....we have a food pantry here and just take stuff to our local church....the food pantry does the distributing from there.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: Peace
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 08:44 PM

Food hampers--community agencies have the names and addresses of people who need assistance at this time of year. Our school is given a description of the family. So, if a mother has three children, various classes will buy a present for a '10-year old girl or a 4-year old boy'. At the same time, each class gets a basic list of stuff for a Christmas dinner. Can of cranberry sauce, cookies, cereal, canned this and that. It's enough to fill up two good sized boxes. These are numbered so they can be cross-referenced at the distribution centre. We never get to see the names of the people involved. We've been doing it for years.

One of the community service organizations--Elks, Moose, etc., will buy the turkeys for the meals and the local supermarkets sell them at cost. On the 23rd, a number of drivers are given boxes and addresses--no names. We go deliver the stuff after dark so as to minimize public attention. I try to wear something that makes it hard to know who I am because I have had the experience of delivering to the dad of some students I taught, and it saves the embarrassment one might feel in that situation. That way, no one is feelin' funny.

We also have a food bank in town. They are a bloody disgrace in Canada. National disgrace. Makes me ashamed.

Also, there are some hunters who will share meat they shoot, and social services handles that the same way. Drivers are cautioned to 'forget the addresses' after the delivery. We do. I am not sure if I'm delivering this X-mas. I'll be notified through the school or the fire department. Happy to deliver, and it makes me feel pretty good. But walkin' away makes me feel pretty bad, ya know?

BM

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 04 - 10:06 PM

Last year in our school district, there was an awful car accident that killed both parents of a family of 5 kids, 3 of whom were district students. We put all our "holiday" gift money into the fund for the kids to be kept together, with their eldest sister, who was 19 or 20 years old.

There is always someone in much worse shape than ourselves, is what we as a family figured out about 5 or 6 years ago, Now, that is how we do our "gifting" at the holidays. Nobody else gets/gives gifts in our immediate family. The money we once spent on trinkets for each other now goes to something practical, like the fund I mentioned above.

We don't donate to most charities. We prefer direct giving.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 04 - 01:44 AM

Nice collection of "oddities."    With any fortunate crossing of areas, half of the posters and be cornered for much needed services.

Subject: RE: BS: holiday depression...
From: Amos
Date: 17 Dec 04 - 04:25 PM

Science Daily article on the dynamics of S.A.D. can be found here.

A